Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns

rlindsey912nub18_ESO

So Nightblades are still stuck being trash and won’t be able to compete with pure classes or subclasses is what I am hearing and stop trying to buff nbs thru pure damage stacks Jesus Christ it’s an rogue class with no bleeding or poison damage could have used this opportunity to give nbs some of those thru the passives not that trash crit damage passive

xylena

hoangdz wrote: »

2) Diminishing returns could help solve the power-creep issue, but it would also drive away the veteran community. I mean, would you even want to take the game seriously if you spent 4 hours a day perfecting your rotation and farming gear, only to barely do 30k more DPS than some average guy who logs in for an hour a day or once every few days?

Yes this is how it should be. The sweatlord still beats the casual 100% of the time. The player who sweats extra just to do 31k more instead of 30k more is still the top player. I don't need a stat sheet making me do logarithmically more damage than casuals on top of my skill advantage.

This was how the game was at launch with the Soft Cap system that they got rid of in the name of the "infinite progression" they were marketing the cp system as. So after a decade+ of "infinite progression" we can see pretty well what that's done to the game.

Tannus15

Just throwing my support behind the excellent posts by @Turtle_Bot @MashmalloMan @ZhuJiuyin @Cammiepoo @pluvioisaplanet

Please, trust us. We know that on the dummy sorc looks amazing, but there are huge limitations when it comes to group content which are not being represented on the dummy.

The dummy is not the game.

Cleave matters.
Support in the form of buffs and debuffs matter.
Sorc does almost nothing on all these fronts.

To make sorc work right now we're running essentially 3 spammables. Knife, bound armaments and frags. It's all single target. Stack static reverb on top of that and it becaomes very clear that you're not going to get any cleave out of this build.
You're just not, all the GCD's are tied to those skills.

Static reverb is carrying sorc hard in these parses. Take it off and you lose 17k+ for the passive damage plus whatever concussed it's procing.

I also want to put some emphasis on any build that is running 60% crit chance is going to have big swings on the dummy. Look a those big 200k parses and you'll see 80% crit on frags. Because why would someone post their parse with bad frag crit %?
In real content we don't reset the boss because we're not getting frag procs and can see that the NUMBA TOO SMOL.

You're balancing on a curated data set where it only shows the best case scenario.

Please, I'm begging you, stop using dummy parses as the most important metric for PvE balance. It's a really good metric is identifying where something is too weak, but it's a terrible metric for identifying when something is too strong.

coop500

Tannus15 wrote: »

Just throwing my support behind the excellent posts by @Turtle_Bot @MashmalloMan @ZhuJiuyin @Cammiepoo @pluvioisaplanet

Please, trust us. We know that on the dummy sorc looks amazing, but there are huge limitations when it comes to group content which are not being represented on the dummy.

The dummy is not the game.

Cleave matters.
Support in the form of buffs and debuffs matter.
Sorc does almost nothing on all these fronts.

To make sorc work right now we're running essentially 3 spammables. Knife, bound armaments and frags. It's all single target. Stack static reverb on top of that and it becaomes very clear that you're not going to get any cleave out of this build.
You're just not, all the GCD's are tied to those skills.

Static reverb is carrying sorc hard in these parses. Take it off and you lose 17k+ for the passive damage plus whatever concussed it's procing.

I also want to put some emphasis on any build that is running 60% crit chance is going to have big swings on the dummy. Look a those big 200k parses and you'll see 80% crit on frags. Because why would someone post their parse with bad frag crit %?
In real content we don't reset the boss because we're not getting frag procs and can see that the NUMBA TOO SMOL.

You're balancing on a curated data set where it only shows the best case scenario.

Please, I'm begging you, stop using dummy parses as the most important metric for PvE balance. It's a really good metric is identifying where something is too weak, but it's a terrible metric for identifying when something is too strong.

This entire post can also include WW in most PvE cases too, and NB and Necromancer and Templar. It's rough out there for these playstyles/classes, especially when not abusing the meta.

Draggimus

how does it make any sense to acknowledge that nightblade class masteries are bad but then point out that they have subclassing builds that are overperforming as some sort of counterargument
they're mutually exclusive

can u explain, cause i don't think u actually understand

ZhuJiuyin

Draggimus wrote: »

how does it make any sense to acknowledge that nightblade class masteries are bad but then point out that they have subclassing builds that are overperforming as some sort of counterargument
they're mutually exclusive

can u explain, cause i don't think u actually understand

Where's the contradiction? Because Nightblades lack AoE, class mastery doesn't truly help them. And class mastery doesn't offer a more effective means of survival in PvP (aside from stealth).

However, in subclass builds, Assassination provides a huge amount of critical chance and critical damage, and no other class skills can provide so much critical chance and critical damage simultaneously. This forces many subclass builds need to revolve around Assassination; otherwise, they're limiting themselves.

ArctosCethlenn

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Draggimus wrote: »

how does it make any sense to acknowledge that nightblade class masteries are bad but then point out that they have subclassing builds that are overperforming as some sort of counterargument
they're mutually exclusive

can u explain, cause i don't think u actually understand

Where's the contradiction? Because Nightblades lack AoE, class mastery doesn't truly help them. And class mastery doesn't offer a more effective means of survival in PvP (aside from stealth).

However, in subclass builds, Assassination provides a huge amount of critical chance and critical damage, and no other class skills can provide so much critical chance and critical damage simultaneously. This forces many subclass builds need to revolve around Assassination; otherwise, they're limiting themselves.

no ***? that's the problem?

Draggimus

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Because Nightblades lack AoE, class mastery doesn't truly help them. And class mastery doesn't offer a more effective means of survival in PvP (aside from stealth).

that is literally the point of the class masteries?
to do so, to make it worth keeping all 3 lines, to bridge the gap between the mistake that is subclassing and pure classes

they're also literally mutually exclusive with subclassing, so a subclassing build being overpowered has ZERO relevance to them being bad?

"assassination is too good in subclassing!" that's sure an issue because you can definitely get these passives while subclassing
what are you even talking about u clown