Improving Random Dungeon Groups with a Player Rating System

BXR_Lonestar

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

So, if you join a random dungeon run and get 3 speedrunners, while you want to run a different pace, you would downvote each player? And they in turn can all downvote you too? So, 1 disapprove and 2 approves for each of the speedrunners and 3 disapproves for you? Are you sure it's the speedrunners who will be playing alone?

Just want to clarify that random group does not mean all players have queued for the random daily dungeon. Some queued for a specific dungeon and got a speedrunner. Everyone glosses over that point.

Still, I don’t see how a rating would help. It would further complicate the game.

At this point, pretty much EVERYONE is looking to speed run the dungeons because EVERYONE has run them 200+ times. I don't want to crawl through Lair of Maerselok one more time than I need to.

If you want to play that way or if you want to get the quest done, why is it so hard to join a guild or make some friends and ask them for help, and then, set expectations before anyone agrees to go by telling them you want to get the quest done? This is an MMO after all, and the point of the game is to meet other players to play with.

katanagirl1

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

So, if you join a random dungeon run and get 3 speedrunners, while you want to run a different pace, you would downvote each player? And they in turn can all downvote you too? So, 1 disapprove and 2 approves for each of the speedrunners and 3 disapproves for you? Are you sure it's the speedrunners who will be playing alone?

Just want to clarify that random group does not mean all players have queued for the random daily dungeon. Some queued for a specific dungeon and got a speedrunner. Everyone glosses over that point.

Still, I don’t see how a rating would help. It would further complicate the game.

At this point, pretty much EVERYONE is looking to speed run the dungeons because EVERYONE has run them 200+ times. I don't want to crawl through Lair of Maerselok one more time than I need to.

If you want to play that way or if you want to get the quest done, why is it so hard to join a guild or make some friends and ask them for help, and then, set expectations before anyone agrees to go by telling them you want to get the quest done? This is an MMO after all, and the point of the game is to meet other players to play with.

Did you read what I said?

I have run them numerous times but I don’t think it is fair to expect 3 players who might queue for a specific dungeon and have a player who queued for the quick random daily dungeon speedrun and pull all of them from boss to boss when they want to open chests and move at a slightly more leisurely pace and kill all the mobs.

Also, I am running with other people, I am just using the in-game function called the group dungeon finder to do so. Nothing wrong with that. If I had like-minded guildies to run with I wouldn’t have to queue.

I am playing the game as intended.

Lord_Hev

All the people with the "I've already run X so many times" Okay, what else do you actually do in the game that you feel the need to run through as fast as humanly possible like it's such a daunting unforgiving chore? lol.


I've run fg1 100000 times since 2014, and I still treat it like I treat every single dungeon and trial I do. By-the-book, pack to pack as a group and via the Tank's lead and pace.

prof-dracko

Why not just have an upvote system. No downvotes to abuse, but players who co-operate well get a bit more preferential treatment and the players who don't aren't affected.

thorwyn

I don’t think it is fair to expect 3 players who might queue for a specific dungeon and have a player who queued for the quick random daily dungeon speedrun and pull all of them from boss to boss when they want to open chests and move at a slightly more leisurely pace and kill all the mobs.

It's also not fair to expect 3 people who just want to get the dungeon done as quickly as possible to wait for one "master historian" who wants to check every inch of the architecture.

thorwyn

Why not just have an upvote system. No downvotes to abuse, but players who co-operate well get a bit more preferential treatment and the players who don't aren't affected.

Because noone would know what the upvotes were given for. It just reflects the expectation of the player who gave it and that information is not transfered to the next person.
An upvote could mean "fast and efficient dungeon runner" or "nice and slow paced dungeon runner" or "made a hilarious dad joke in group chat". So at some point, everybody would have stacked up upvote points, because everybody runs into players who like their play style and the upvotes would become meaningless.

Radiate77

Why downvote at all?

Someone speed runs, gift them Pacesetter.
Someone roleplays, give them Undaunted.
Someone guides beginners, they get Champion.

Then you could set preferences when queuing and dedicate the first minute or two to only matching with your choice in players, as over time the search restrictions could loosen.

Aislinna

Radiate77 wrote: »

Why downvote at all?

Someone speed runs, gift them Pacesetter.
Someone roleplays, give them Undaunted.
Someone guides beginners, they get Champion.

Then you could set preferences when queuing and dedicate the first minute or two to only matching with your choice in players, as over time the search restrictions could loosen.

I think you may have the start of an idea going. The main issue is with other people upvoting/assigning characteristics to other players. I.e., "I don't like the speedrunner" so I'm assigning them "undaunted" and they will then get matched with all the slower paced people that want to explore and then the speedrunner will be taught a lesson. If people can figure out how to weaponize something, people will. Now, if it was a self-assigned role that's something that could possibly be worked into the matchmaking.

Radiate77

Aislinna wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Why downvote at all?

Someone speed runs, gift them Pacesetter.
Someone roleplays, give them Undaunted.
Someone guides beginners, they get Champion.

Then you could set preferences when queuing and dedicate the first minute or two to only matching with your choice in players, as over time the search restrictions could loosen.

I think you may have the start of an idea going. The main issue is with other people upvoting/assigning characteristics to other players. I.e., "I don't like the speedrunner" so I'm assigning them "undaunted" and they will then get matched with all the slower paced people that want to explore and then the speedrunner will be taught a lesson. If people can figure out how to weaponize something, people will. Now, if it was a self-assigned role that's something that could possibly be worked into the matchmaking.

Wouldn’t that be contradictory?

If someone wants people who don’t speed run, why would they sacrifice their future experiences by designating someone who does something they don’t like, as someone they would like to play with again? I also don’t think a self-assign works, as people would find a way to flame others for not adhering to their assignments.

I believe that there are more people who would vote appropriately than not, and assuming our designations were per character and reset every quarter, this could be the perfect solution to the problem.

katanagirl1

thorwyn wrote: »

I don’t think it is fair to expect 3 players who might queue for a specific dungeon and have a player who queued for the quick random daily dungeon speedrun and pull all of them from boss to boss when they want to open chests and move at a slightly more leisurely pace and kill all the mobs.

It's also not fair to expect 3 people who just want to get the dungeon done as quickly as possible to wait for one "master historian" who wants to check every inch of the architecture.

It is, if the one player who waited in the queue and queued for a specific dungeon to do the quest got 3 random daily reward speedrunners who took the short cut in the queue. Players who do quests and check for lorebooks and chests do not take a significant more amount of time to run a dungeon, stop over-exaggerating.

lillybit

When I did Bedlam Veil for the first time on PS (queued specifically for it, not a random) there were 3 of us doing the quest and 1 who wanted to speed run. It's a fairly straightforward quest that doesn't need any waiting around so it didn't really matter and we mostly kept up except for once we stopped to loot a chest (on the direct path with force lock so it took seconds) and they ran ahead and died to trash.

Then we came to the puzzles. Obviously it was the first time there for most of us so as well as the achievement there was the 3 curated chests, double event drops and empty stickerbooks! I'd had BV turn up as a random on PC so knew what to do and it took 10-15 seconds to solve and grab the loot while the runner raced on in a hurry to die to trash (they were still rezzing when we caught up). The last one didn't have a trash pack after to slow them down tho, so literally as I was about to solve it we were all pulled to the boss.

I get that people like to get dungeons over with quick but we weren't hanging about reading everything and looking into every corner. We were literally right behind them almost the whole way.

This is how most non-speed runners operate. We don't hang about but if theres a chest we want to loot it. How is it right that 1 person gets to unilaterally decide that we can't, just for the sake of 3 seconds?

thorwyn

It is, if the one player who waited in the queue and queued for a specific dungeon to do the quest got 3 random daily reward speedrunners who took the short cut in the queue. Players who do quests and check for lorebooks and chests do not take a significant more amount of time to run a dungeon, stop over-exaggerating.

The three other players have been waiting in the queue just as long as the quester.
And yes, players who are searching every corner for chests, listen to every dialogue and read every lorebook DO take significantly more time, so stop talking it down.