PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Naj-Caldeesh Dungeon

ZOS_Kevin · July 8

This is the official feedback thread for Naj-Caldeesh. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
What level and build was the character you used?
Did you happen to notice or find anything particularly interesting or different?
Do you have any other general feedback?

Credible_Joe · July 8

Please refer to my thread Hard Group Checks in U47 Dungeons for many others and my own negative sentiments regarding the pressure plates, and any other mechanics that exclude solo players from participating.

TL;DR: Punishments or exclusions for not playing the way intended in design is a net negative experience, as only those that are excluded are affected; it does not bring anything positive or engaging to anyone else. In my opinion, If the design team wants their content to be engaged with in groups, grouping should be incentivized instead.

I hope the criticism I'm expressing here and in the linked thread is constructive. I'm sorry if it comes across as judgmental or hostile; at the time I was disappointed and frustrated at being limited to engaging with the dungeon in a way I'm not inclined to on first pass.

To be clear, I enjoy playing in groups. I always help with gear runs, and I sign up for trials in my guild as much as I can. Not to mention that group play is fundamentally more engaging from a gameplay standpoint.

But I'll never get the full experience of the dungeon-- especially the narrative-- when playing in a group. Even with other players or guildies doing a lore run. Just having others present whose experience is dependent to some degree on you being mindful to them interferes with that.

There isn't a version of that where I pretend they're not there and engage with the content as if I were solo. So there isn't a version of this dungeon where I'll be able to engage with the full scope of the narrative and lore. That's what's frustrating to me about hard group checks.

Finisherofwar · July 9

1. I did enjoy it. It's visually quite interesting and the secret buffs design are quite original for this game even though personally I do not like puzzles I still enjoyed them.

2. This dungeon is too easy even on HM. We cleared it yesterday on the first day of PTS and it was no challenge. It's even easier than Exiled Redoubt from the previous set of dungeons and that one has already been soloed on HM and I believe if this dungeon isn't balanced during pts to be more challenging that it will also be soloed on HM in spite of the pressure plates at the start of the dungeon because you can just Streak across.

3. We completed it on Hard Mode difficulty.

4. My favorite boss was the final boss because visually he is the most interesting but difficulty wise he's not any more interesting.

5. Cp 2000+ Characters. I was dps but the other roles agreed this dungeon was not challenging enough on HM.

6. No. Just the aforementioned things.

7. Balance this dungeon during PTS to be more challenging please, however you need to do it. It's hard for me to point at one specific place to increase its difficulty because all of it was too easy but for example the first boss immunity being taken away by the Saw Blade is cool but there's currently no reason to not tank the boss to stand on the saw blade the entire fight while keeping him near the totems spawn point so that you can cleave it down instantly when it spawns. The entire first boss you can just keep him there the entire time and just parse on him. The adds that come up during the fight are all too weak and do nothing before getting cleaved down.

Soarora · July 10

Thoughts on first run of the dungeon, may edit or post again if I do it more.

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
Somewhat, there's a couple cool things and one very annoying thing that makes 2nd boss a bit frustrating: how enemies move when there's other enemies nearby. This is a general problem as sometimes bosses no matter what content will get stuck trying to flank you, the tank, making it very difficult to get them to stand still (even if there's no adds nearby). This happened a lot during this boss as the boss would move out of the way of the adds instead of the adds moving out of the way of the boss.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
I think the only difficult part will be managing the 2nd boss add and boss placement depending on if the group can cleave minis equally or if they cannot. I think all things considered; it's on the easier side.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
We completed 2 of the 3 hard modes but had to stop with our last run at 32% on last boss' hard mode as we ran out of time to play.

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
I'm partial to the big argonian behemoth on the last boss because he's cute and rolls around. Mechanically, I think the 2nd one is the most interesting from a tank perspective, as frustrating as it is currently. If I get a good strategy down, it may become my favorite.

What level and build was the character you used?
CP 2000+ pure sorcerer tank in archdruid/lucent echoes/war machine/dragonstar sword and shield.

Did you happen to notice or find anything particularly interesting or different?
Using the chainsaw to break the first boss' shield was cool, though it is fairly irrelevant considering I just held her on the chainsaw (and figured it out immediately after I saw she was invulnerable). It does reward a tank that knows how to place a boss at least.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I loved the side... activities. I am now completely distracted by how fun that was. I will say though, it would be nice if there were different songs than just the one and the challenge version. I worry that the fun may die to repetitiveness. We missed the first 2 on the way through but we were snooping around the dungeon. It's a little disappointing that they're very obvious on the map.

The ring around the arena on the last boss denoting "aoe" is also a bit confusing, just as confusing as it is trying to explain what I'm talking about. There are the little aoes around the perimeter that of course do damage but the hollow AoE ring... I don't know if it's telling us to be in the middle or the outside because I tried standing in both places and I was fine as long as I didn't stand in the little AoEs.

Freelancer_ESO · July 11

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?

Yeah. I generally don't love Argonian areas but, the dungeon was quite pretty.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?

I think the trash aside from the mechanics was easier than it was on some of the other recent dungeons. The bosses were roughly what I expected.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?

Normal

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?

I'd say the first boss. Initially, the character was amusing but, they got a little tiring after the first engagement. Last boss was a little visually loud at times.

What level and build was the character you used?

I used a Template character running Winter's Embrace + Daedric Summoning + Bone Tyrant along with my companion. I had to turn myself into a Vampire to get across the gap. I realize that might lead to the approach getting blocked but, I'd rather not lie when providing feedback.

Did you happen to notice or find anything particularly interesting or different?

I noticed that the bonus areas appeared to deal with music. I think it required more than one person but, it's possible I was just horrible at it.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I'm really not a big fan of the pressure plate type mechanic to proceed. I don't need to be able to solo everything so if something is too hard for me to solo that's designed for a group or to be quite challenging that's fine but, I really don't like being arbitrarily blocked. The NPC in question even talks about putting a rock on the plate. I try not to be a burden on other people so, when something requires multiple people I generally don't end up doing it unless someone else that I bump into actually wants to do it themselves.

I would note that it seemed like the corpses didn't stick around for very long for my Necromancer's usage on the last boss but, it's possible that's the normal disappearance rate for npcs without loot. I haven't been doing that much Necro stuff lately.

code65536 · July 17

I've completed this dungeon three times with three different groups, twice during PTS 1 and once during PTS 2.

I don't really have much to say about this dungeon. It's a perfectly cromulent dungeon, with fun side areas, and we enjoyed going through it.

It's this DLC's Exiled Redoubt, but I think it's fine to have an easier dungeon so that the DLC can cater to a wider range of players rather than have both be amped up to Black Gem levels.

A few specific things that we noticed during the PTS 2 run:

During PTS 2, we noticed that we could open the drawbridge without having two people on the plates at the same time. I'm not sure if this is an intended change that missed the notes or if this was a bug.
During PTS 2, the final boss encounter got stuck. Talen-Lah had left and Bar-Sakka, instead of joining the fight, just kept rolling around the side indefinitely. We had to wipe to reset this encounter. This problem did not occur on the next pull. I'll try to post a video of it later.
During PTS 2, the final phase of the final boss encounter, where we fight Talen-Lah while Bar-Sakka is in the fight arena but immune, happened with over 6M health remaining on Bar-Sakka, whereas during PTS 1, Bar-Sakka was almost dead. We're not sure if this is intended or if it's a bug.

element0032 · July 19

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
Yes. There are a few interesting and engaging mechanics such as totems on 1st boss and tethers and adds on 2nd boss. Side "puzzles" were fun.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
Seems on the easier side for veteran hard mode. Completely blind run. First boss took 6 pulls to complete. 4 for 2nd boss. 2 for final boss.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
Completed veteran hard mode.

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
1st boss. Totem and buzz saw trap mechanics were fun.

What level and build was the character you used?
CP ~2500 herald of the tome/assassination/dawn's wrath dps.

Did you happen to notice or find anything particularly interesting or different?
Argonian theme was interesting.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Music side puzzles were the same sequence for all 3 rooms. Not sure if this is a bug but please make the combinations different. It was a fun and great idea but sad if it is the same song and sequence every single time.

Last boss felt too easy. Fight ended when we killed the smaller humanoid even though the beast creature had at least 60-70% of it's health left. Fight felt like it was missing a "finale" with the beast and no group coordination mechanics other than the 2 adds that spawn and people stand(?) in the circles they generate. We didn't fully understand this mechanic or feel like we got punished for doing anything wrong.

SaintJohnHM · July 21

The HM is way way way too easy. We don't need an easy Hard Mode, there are already normal and veteran levels for each dungeon, please ramp up the HM challenge before release so it has more replayability.

Change up the secrets, playing the song was super cool, but it shouldn't be the same every time.

MoonPile · July 26

I haven't done the dungeons on PTS, but wanted to say I really like the new dye "Weathered Keystone Green"; it will definitely motivate me to do them and the achievement on Live:

...and I'm (cautiously) grateful that it's awarded for completing the optional content on Normal(?):

Actually came in here to see what others said about doing those achievements... @code65536 since you've done both, can I ask what you thought?

code65536 · July 26

MoonPile wrote: »

Actually came in here to see what others said about doing those achievements... @code65536 since you've done both, can I ask what you thought?

The optional side content can be completed on normal. For Black Gem Foundry, these are pretty straightforward find-the-secret-and-beat-up-the-guy-inside type things.

For Naj Caldeesh, they are... different. In a good and entertaining way.

For Naj Caldeesh, you will need 4 players to complete the side content. It's fun, and I think people will enjoy it, but you will need 4 like-minded people who don't mind taking the time to, um, fully experience what these detours have to offer.

MoonPile · July 26

code65536 wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Actually came in here to see what others said about doing those achievements... @code65536 since you've done both, can I ask what you thought?

The optional side content can be completed on normal. For Black Gem Foundry, these are pretty straightforward find-the-secret-and-beat-up-the-guy-inside type things.

For Naj Caldeesh, they are... different. In a good and entertaining way.

For Naj Caldeesh, you will need 4 players to complete the side content. It's fun, and I think people will enjoy it, but you will need 4 like-minded people who don't mind taking the time to, um, fully experience what these detours have to offer.

Thank you!
The dye is nice enough that I'm sure it'll be easy to find 4 guildies for this xD very curious now

Angery_Argonian · August 18

This dungeon is an unbalanced nightmare.
On normal difficulty it’s unbeatable, and we had good builds and companions.
It’s just too much.
This isn’t veteran difficulty, what the hell.
My girlfriend and I have completed every dungeon together, but today this one turned out to be impossible.
It’s unbalanced, as if it was released unfinished and without checking what difficulty it actually works on.
That’s not normal — making an unbeatable dungeon on normal difficulty.

Angery_Argonian · August 18

And I’m talking about the basic run, without the musical trials.
Not to mention that at night we have nowhere to find a 4-man team.
The evening is ruined.

Angery_Argonian · August 18

Here’s according to the template

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
No. This dungeon felt like an unbalanced nightmare.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
On Normal it was far more difficult than any existing dungeon — practically impossible to complete, even with good builds and companions. It feels harder than Veteran, which makes no sense.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
We could not complete Normal.

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
None, because we couldn’t progress far enough — the balance prevented us from experiencing the dungeon properly.

What level and build was the character you used?
We had strong builds and companions, and we’ve cleared all other dungeons together as a duo. Still, this one was impossible.

Did you happen to notice or find anything particularly interesting or different?
Yes — the design feels like it was released unfinished and untested, at least on Normal difficulty.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Making a dungeon unbeatable on Normal is not acceptable. I’m talking about the basic run (without musical trials), and yet we couldn’t progress. At night, it’s impossible for us to find a full group of four people, so the dungeon is simply inaccessible. Our evening was ruined because of this imbalance.

Angery_Argonian · August 18

Please understand me correctly.
I’ve been playing for several years, and your game gives me a lot of positive emotions.
But I don’t have the opportunity to play during the day or evening — my work ends late.
That’s why I usually go through dungeons only with my girlfriend and NPC companions.
This dungeon today drained all our nerves, so I’m sorry for losing my temper.
We have no one to take with us into dungeons during the whole week,
and because of that, from the new ones we’ve only managed to complete one.

daemondamian · October 12

I've soloed almost every dungeon (except Imperial City Prison & Direfrost Keep*) including Fang Lair, Falkreath Hold, March of Sacrifices, Lair of Maarselok, Frostvault, Castle Thorn, Graven Deep, The Cauldron, Dread Cellar, Lep Seclusa, Red Petal Dungeon, Ruins of Mazzatun, Moongrave Fane, Crypt of Hearts 2, Cradle of Shadows & Blackheart Haven* and Scalecaller Peak

*but*

I can't get past Voskrona Stonehulk Poxitos.

I've tried multiple things including 33k resistances plus major protection/aegis etc, oakensoul, different sets, skills & can only get him down to around 66% health before I run out of stamina, don't block in time & can't bring myself back to full health or die for some other reason.

You could say it's player error but I've soloed other dlc dungeons that had challenging mechanics that other players wouldn't want to solo.

*ICP & DK had mechanics that prevented soloing (opening doors) while I managed to workaround the disabling effects in CoH2, CoS & BH at the time I soloed them but not sure if you still can.

I understand dlc dungeons should be difficult especially for groups on veteran mode but on normal while the mechanics should still be there & need to be learned, it shouldn't be *so* hard.

Edit: I managed to solo complete and Poxito was much easier than the final boss although I ended up using the same build for them as the rest of the dungeon but not Poxito. This is the link to my post (originally a build help request post).

daemondamian · October 24

Angery_Argonian wrote: »

Please understand me correctly.
I’ve been playing for several years, and your game gives me a lot of positive emotions.
But I don’t have the opportunity to play during the day or evening — my work ends late.
That’s why I usually go through dungeons only with my girlfriend and NPC companions.
This dungeon today drained all our nerves, so I’m sorry for losing my temper.
We have no one to take with us into dungeons during the whole week,
and because of that, from the new ones we’ve only managed to complete one.

Angery_Argonian wrote: »

This dungeon is an unbalanced nightmare.
On normal difficulty it’s unbeatable, and we had good builds and companions.
It’s just too much.
This isn’t veteran difficulty, what the hell.
My girlfriend and I have completed every dungeon together, but today this one turned out to be impossible.
It’s unbalanced, as if it was released unfinished and without checking what difficulty it actually works on.
That’s not normal — making an unbeatable dungeon on normal difficulty.

I managed to solo Naj-Caldeesh on normal but it took two slightly different but specialised builds. Here's the link to my post in the Combat and Character Mechanics forum.