What's been fun for you with subclassing?

Thysbe · June 24

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

What is missing for you?

- matching themes, so it has a coherent feel like the old classes had - so you have matching skillstyles for all skillines like red, black, blue, necro fire, lighting. If you build a character around performance and not looks it now feels off. But I bet thats reserved for Crown store later on. I am not asking for full blown re-styles - only recolours in at least a few colours.

- a rework of the passives so they are not working on other skilllines from the same class (especially Necro and Arc have quite some of them - see current thread on arcanist passives for better understanding). All skill lines should be stand-alone and not dependend on passives from other skill lines.

- a reduction/nerf of power creep so that the top notch combinations are not that much of an outlier

- removal of existing class restrictions. It feels shallow that you supposedly have so many options and because of class banner you are still forced to use your arcanist. These are superficial and unnecessary restrictions. I detest subclassing but if you want to do it, then do it right and not only 3/4 th through.

- for PVP I can´t say but I bet there are similar issues

all of this shows that no sufficient work was put into this feature and it was just a re-use of the existing skill lines with small (mostly uncalled for) nerfs like the sorc pet passives and some performance measures to support an extensive use of zoo builds not a well thought through experience for the player.

Monte_Cristo · June 24

Added sorcerer's lightning and Waden's ice to my DK's fire. Elemental wizard.

LukosCreyden · June 24

I am currently running a no-pet sorc with wirld soul and soul burst. Focused heavily around character theme (celestial) and soloing dlc dungeons. I am gonna test out swapping Dark Magic for Dawn's Wrath, because that is a spicy skill line that kinda fits the theme and has solid skills and passives.
I know it seems weird to not swap out Daedric Summoning, but that skill line has Haunting Curse and Bound Armor sooooo rip Frags, your skill line sucks lol

shadyjane62 · June 24

I've died a lot in PvP to people who are subclassing and are now unkillable.

I'd say my view on subclassing is extremely negative.

YandereGirlfriend · June 24

Nearly everything has been positive but being able to finally create pure elemental/theme builds out of the various class trees that contain desired power fantasy aspects has been a blast.

JJBoomer · June 25

everything. the game feels much more fun. alting is much more fun. and i've been able to complete much more content than before. its great.

sad to see that some people just want to commiserate in hatred over things other people enjoy. but hey. sweaties are gonna sweat

Supreme_Atromancer · June 25

Thysbe wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

What is missing for you?

- matching themes, so it has a coherent feel like the old classes had - so you have matching skillstyles for all skillines like red, black, blue, necro fire, lighting. If you build a character around performance and not looks it now feels off. But I bet thats reserved for Crown store later on. I am not asking for full blown re-styles - only recolours in at least a few colours.

- a rework of the passives so they are not working on other skilllines from the same class (especially Necro and Arc have quite some of them - see current thread on arcanist passives for better understanding). All skill lines should be stand-alone and not dependend on passives from other skill lines.

- a reduction/nerf of power creep so that the top notch combinations are not that much of an outlier

- removal of existing class restrictions. It feels shallow that you supposedly have so many options and because of class banner you are still forced to use your arcanist. These are superficial and unnecessary restrictions. I detest subclassing but if you want to do it, then do it right and not only 3/4 th through.

- for PVP I can´t say but I bet there are similar issues

all of this shows that no sufficient work was put into this feature and it was just a re-use of the existing skill lines with small (mostly uncalled for) nerfs like the sorc pet passives and some performance measures to support an extensive use of zoo builds not a well thought through experience for the player.

I'm coming at it from a different perspective to you (I love subclassing), but I think that your comments make a lot of sense.

From my perspective; PvP friends say there are a few problems but its not THAT big a deal; for PvE there's clearly some ridic OP stuff, but even endgamers are having fun with it. There'll need to be some rebalancing, but given the scale of the changes, I think that its gone reasonably well.

- removal of existing class restrictions.

I'm so on board with this. Maybe they kept the restrictions to be cautious, but I hope they eventually rip the band aid off. Even if right now is not the time.

ZOS said that newer players are feeling overwhelmed, which isn't hard to imagine. I think that if they want new players to experience the freedom and fun the rest of us are having, they could consider removing more barriers. Having to level through a first class seems like a steep barrier for a new player. And then it's a whole *thing* to have to go to a respec shrine and navigate the interface just to put in a new skill to help overcome some situation.

I think that would have to be weighed against the value of the "deckbuilding" philosophy of skill loadouts, though even that seems pretty eroded.

matching skillstyles for all skillines like red, black, blue, necro fire, lighting.

I was lukewarm about the skill styles until I saw subclassing. There's a hell of a lot of potential with them now. People really seem to want to co-ordinate their look. I just want skills to look like OG TES versions. So hit me with a Pale Blue or Light Yellow Cloak and a Purple Barrier.

Diundriel · June 25

non meta pvp build: DK/Sorc/Play
been really fun to play

just started uploading, would be nice if you leave a like or sub for more non meta pvp gameplay (if you liked the build

)
gameplay:

https://youtu.be/l-0m9SAMASI?si=QdwHFePVu3k8YMzm

LouisaB75 · June 25

I have been having something of a blitz of mixing things up with my toons.

My warden, who was previously a sneaky thief and vampire assassin is now cured of being a vampire, but has become a werewolf instead and is my new summoner. She has the three summons lines (Warden, Sorcerer and Necro), a set to bring the murder of crows and I am intending (was going to be today, but looks like tomorrow now) to get her the clockwork city overland set and the monster set from Banished Cells for even more summons.

My sorcerer, who was also a werewolf who rarely used the werewolf skills, is (when my summoner has finished levelling the werewolf skills) going to be cured of lycanthropy so that she can concentrate on controlling the elements with storm calling, winters embrace and ardent flame.

They might not be meta, but they look to be fun.

My only regret right now is that the new vengeance campaign starts on Monday and I play AD. But these two toons are the only ones out of my 7 that are not in that alliance. One is EP and one is DC, and I keep them around for getting to things like crafting stations in PvP zones, so not going to change them either.

MJallday · June 25

whats been fun

* discovering new variations of builds
* more damage

whats not been fun

* wondering where im going to get some of my buffs without being in an optomised group
* grinding skill points
* grinding normal dungeons for xp

Orbital78 · June 25

Renato90085 wrote: »

Pug players are even worse, last week vcr+0 i met 8 dd do 118k total dps,in log have 4 dd use 3 bad skill line do heavy attack dps(warden ice/dk flame/sorc stome or zoo )
i stop play any pvp because i cant use pure necro fight any op subclass
i can use any toon do my pveendgame healer , but they build all is same
i give up my pure nb dps do dsr trifecta,because anytime my dps lose meta subclass 50k-70k and i dont want stop my group done

yes, very fun

I've noticed the opposite, maybe our vOC fills are just luckily good. Many are good or better than me, but in the current meta everyone can easily be good when pigeon holed.

Personally not much has changed other than the new zone to explore. Better two bar heavy attacks is nice but still underperforming. Beams are still king for me, though I haven't really given jabs a good try. Pressing one button channels vs spamming repeatedly, the prior seems logical to avoid hand health issues.

Ulvich · June 25

I was a bit reserved about this subclassing idea at first. I was convinced that it would ruin Cyrodiil by allowing everyone run around in stealth mode.I was right about that, but aside from Cyrodiil I am still testing a few builds. Archanist (Herold of the Tome), Warden (Winter's Embrace, and Templer (Dawn's Wrath or Aedric Spear) seem to work good for me.

FeedbackOnly · June 25

Bubosh wrote: »

exactly @FeedbackOnly at least that and especially balance the skill lines out better before releasing it, its a shame to have a pts forum place where ppl give their big feedback in but then zos not reacting to it at all and just throwing out the unbalanced mess into the game so the playerbase gets split even then because of the problematic of the patch.

@Bubosh The aracantist bean really a nerf, but they mention in patch notes they can balance skill lines now not just classes

Healer and tank builders have the best time with a lot more diversity.

In regards to trials, there's just a bigger problem to work through and we simply need more people leading them. Arcanist far unclasses DPS adventures, but tank and healer just have more options to be competitive.

Then honestly subclassing will happier experience for casual adventures. Like the pro pet groups with 3 skill lines of pets. Those like creative exploring too

Lastly Amoury exists so just have something for hardcore and something just cause you like it

Arvedia · June 25

Dropped Daedric summoning on my sorc for Herald.

My combo is runeblades, frags and Tentacular Dread. Even though I'm very sceptical when it comes to subclassing, it saved sorc for me. I dont think i ever had fun playing this class since you were pretty much forced playing with pets and the playstyle in general just wasn't any fun for me.

RobZha · June 25

Even though it's not fully related to actually using subclassing, this is what led me to trying out Arcanist skills for the first time (I now have an Arcanist char too) and it's been mostly good to play it so far and try something different.

It was also great to be messing around for what seemed like ages trying to add an Arcanist skill line in the first place but I couldn't get it to work at all, even after reading several things about how to change skill lines thinking I'd missed something there and having already used a Warden skill line with subclassing not long before. Then it finally hit me : to be able to use an Arcanist skill line it helps if you actually buy the class first! Amazing.

FeedbackOnly · June 25

RobZha wrote: »

Even though it's not fully related to actually using subclassing, this is what led me to trying out Arcanist skills for the first time (I now have an Arcanist char too) and it's been mostly good to play it so far and try something different.

It was also great to be messing around for what seemed like ages trying to add an Arcanist skill line in the first place but I couldn't get it to work at all, even after reading several things about how to change skill lines thinking I'd missed something there and having already used a Warden skill line with subclassing not long before. Then it finally hit me : to be able to use an Arcanist skill line it helps if you actually buy the class first! Amazing.

Arcanist for me has been more fun as a subclass

the90thmeridian · June 25

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

What have you done?

personally, not much (i play dps) so my parse went up but it was good before so enh. but - it has been good for my solo with companion overland play.

Rohamad_Ali · June 28

Bubosh wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali it's ESO and it was ESO for more than 10 years, ppl forgetting about what the "O" stands for. This game is not TES(single player rpg) stop wishing so and this patch is basically the worst for the game balance and that is essential for a "ES(ONLINE)" massive online rpg. Worst patch and direction of this game.And I have never seen such clowny laser animations in any TES game so what are you on about by telling it's more a TES game now, this subclassing made the immersion of your classes even worse but okey if you like that rainbow laser show lol

FeedbackOnly · June 28

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Bubosh wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali it's ESO and it was ESO for more than 10 years, ppl forgetting about what the "O" stands for. This game is not TES(single player rpg) stop wishing so and this patch is basically the worst for the game balance and that is essential for a "ES(ONLINE)" massive online rpg. Worst patch and direction of this game.And I have never seen such clowny laser animations in any TES game so what are you on about by telling it's more a TES game now, this subclassing made the immersion of your classes even worse but okey if you like that rainbow laser show lol

I am so lost but cat is cute!

Meiox · June 28

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

What have you done?

Since I have every class at least once, I play now all characters, since I can change the ones I didn't liked how the class worked, to my prefered play style

NxJoeyD · June 28

Subclassing has a lot of fun potential for PvE in my opinion.

Subclassing has absolutely ruined PvP, to the point where it’s an absolute mess as a part of ESO gameplay now.

All Subclassing has done has constricted the metas and we’re seeing even more of the mindless spamming in combat. Combat now requires even less strategy or skill and has, in some cases, created builds with little to no counters.

Subclassing made the poor quality aspects of PvP that many have been vocal about, even worse; not better.

Bubosh · June 28

imagine having no argument left anymore but still tagging me with non constructive pointless pictures in here without even any sense. Why do you feel so offended to the point where you are unable to argument but still want to send pictures to Tag me here with no sense behind it. Tells everything about you tbh. Took you only few days also to come up with that answer my god..... @Rohamad_Ali this here ain't space for your personal liked pictures of cats, this place here is to share Feedback on the given topic.

peacenote · June 28

Sub-classing has been a mixed experience for me.

The good:

In my particular circle, the addition of "new build options" and "things to figure out and try" has generated a renewed level of interest. This seems primarily to be true for people who enjoy playing with builds to solve a specific problem. Anything from improving the raid team to working to solo something that couldn't be done before.
I have run into people in game who have shared that they returned to the community specifically for this feature.
I have very much enjoyed pairing abilities from different lines that feel like they "go" well together. In some cases I've found very fun builds that feel both satisfying and more effective than what I've had before.

The less good: I can summarize my issues with one surprising statement - I found sub-classing to be way too limiting.

But of course, I have a longer explanation...

This is extremely out of character for me and my typical beliefs and values for MMOs and ESO. Normally, I'm a fan of things that require people to spend more time in game. I enjoy unlocking things and working towards a goal and having things separate for my alts. With sub-classing specifically, I was concerned that the openness of the system would result in a single build being used by all. In MMOs, creative builds come out of limitations as much as they come from options.

However now that I've experienced it, I have found that it is NOT enjoyable to power level each skill line, and then each ability, every time I want to try something or make a change to a build. I am disliking this experience as much as I enjoyed hunting scripts for my alts. It's also an extremely frustrating and annoying experience to have my alts be unable to try a build after a skill line is unlocked because I'm short on skill points. The higher cost seems arbitrary. I do always carve out time to skyshard hunt for them, but it's awful to not be able to make a full build with the same about of skill points that I had with my previous build. I've basically stopped PvP-ing because I don't have time yet to farm skyshards for my PvP characters as I'm still getting my PvE builds in order. It's... a lot. And last but not least (although likely most controversial), I actually think the limitation of three lines is more negatively impacting class identity and build diversity, which is not what I expected. And yes, I will explain.

At heart, I'm still a healer main, and I've always loved ESO for healing over every other MMO I've tried, because healing has been more of a hybrid role where you can bring a decent amount of damage when not healing. That's been diluted over the years (especially in trials) but I have always prided myself on having hybrid and high damage roles ready to go for dungeons. I use them in pugs. I use them in serious runs to help with speed until we get to the hard mode bosses.

BEFORE, I'd use Dressing Room or Wizard's to change abilities and use more of the damage abilities in my class, and then swap back to support abilities as needed. NOW, I either need to use Armory to do this (not realistic in between pulls... certainly can't automatically apply), or use only generally available abilities (Mage's Guild, Undaunted, etc.). I find my dmg/hybrid healer builds are real Frankenstein nonsense, whereas if all the abilities of my class were available, I'd use those. Or alternately, I need to sacrifice my healing build (which is my primary role) which defeats the purpose of exploring the benefits of sub-classing.

Basically, it's just way more difficult to be hybrid than it was before, and to also use sub-classing to its full potential. I've LOST flexibility to swap between multiple effective builds. So between that and all the unlocking and leveling and skyshard hunting I've felt pretty boxed in. I would feel more like a NB or Warden or Templar or whatever if the game just let us use all abilities (or at least all abilities in our class) kept the limitation of three sets of passives, to protect against being too overpowered.

Therefore, I have enjoyed the functionality but have felt moments of extreme frustration every time I run into a limitation. Which is regularly.

Destai · June 28

Nearly done leveling and got a few more fun combos.

Aedric Spear, Animals Companions. This one feels so natural. Having shalks and jabs together is such a powerful combination. I had Shadow in there just for leveling, but will definitely spec into something else for an actual build.

Herald of the Tome, Draconic Power. It’s fun to anchor your enemies in place and just beam away.

Curative Runes, Green Balance, Dark Magic. HoT for days.

LunaFlora · June 28

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-5e13-71ad-ab40-bbd12abc8bb6/magic-weapons
this build using Assassination and Aedric Spear is fun. i chose those lines because they both use weapons.

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-645c-7170-b055-4ee99950117a/beam-build
here's a build using all the beams Radiant Oppression, Fatecarver, and Soul Strike.

those 2 builds could be used on any class, but i also made a Necromancer exclusive build inspired by Ghost Rider from Marvel Comics. it swaps Living Death with Ardent Flame.
https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-5f8d-70e8-8421-173b3f55ff6a/ghost-rider

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/98ea2ce4-3cc9-4297-9ad1-a20917910cfe/o-tentankcle-maormer
base Arcanist Maormer weather mage build. uses Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Herald of the Tome.
- Boundless Storm
- Arctic Blast
- Lightning Flood
- Chilling Soul (Frost Damage, Class Mastery for crux generation, Maim)
- Tentacular Dread
- Power Overload or Northern Storm

FeedbackOnly · June 30

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-5e13-71ad-ab40-bbd12abc8bb6/magic-weapons
this build using Assassination and Aedric Spear is fun. i chose those lines because they both use weapons.

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-645c-7170-b055-4ee99950117a/beam-build
here's a build using all the beams Radiant Oppression, Fatecarver, and Soul Strike.

those 2 builds could be used on any class, but i also made a Necromancer exclusive build inspired by Ghost Rider from Marvel Comics. it swaps Living Death with Ardent Flame.
https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/01976882-5f8d-70e8-8421-173b3f55ff6a/ghost-rider

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/lunaluciablossom/98ea2ce4-3cc9-4297-9ad1-a20917910cfe/o-tentankcle-maormer
base Arcanist Maormer weather mage build. uses Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Herald of the Tome.
- Boundless Storm
- Arctic Blast
- Lightning Flood
- Chilling Soul (Frost Damage, Class Mastery for crux generation, Maim)
- Tentacular Dread
- Power Overload or Northern Storm

Surprised you haven't tried all pets

Avran_Sylt · June 30

I have a Cyro gank build that's focusing on trying to cram as many high-damage effects into one moment at range as possible.
Currently have:
Overcharge enabled - Snipe+OLA+Merciless+OLA+Elemental Weapon

In about 2 GCD I'm hitting for about 50K before halving or Criticals. (Of which I'm sitting at 135% critical damage and 70% crit chance with 14K penetration).

It's interesting that activating OVercharge doesn't remove you from stealth. In fact, Momentum, or Channeled acceleration don't break stealth either, and using Monomyth reforged I'm pretty well setup for swinging hard without notice (albeit without Merciless in which case it's snipe into repeated OLA+Eleweapons.)

sunsrest · June 30

unlocked and maxed out the aedric spear and storm calling skill lines for my NB main oakensoul dungeon/boss build, kept the assassination skill line, it has improved damage and made DLC dungeons slightly easier which is nice, soloed 4 dungeons with their quest lines in the last week or so, catching up to where I am in the overland story (Southern Elseweyr), just 2 left to catch up

drakhan2002_ESO · June 30

Just play the meta: arc/nb/templar - you'll be in good company... a mirror copy of the rest of the people playing... and you'll be accepted into most groups. That's the easy way to have "fun" - be like EVERYONE else!

BXR_Lonestar · June 30

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I gotta say that subclassing for me has been kind of a dud. Now I haven't gotten a chance to really do anything fun since my primary goal was to update all of my healers for endgame content (healer main), so take my feedback with a grain of salt, but subclassing really hasn't been all that exciting.

I have started my pet-master build, which is kind of exciting trying to theorycraft what abilities and skill lines will yield the best results, but it is so much grind to try to get subclass skill lines leveled up that it kinda takes away the fun IMO (especially since on my healers, I've had to get carried through content to level up since I have no offensive abilities).

I also have some fun ideas to make a fire/lightning mage, but again, it is so much grind to get subclasses leveled up that by the time you get to the point where you can really start making armor for your build and perfecting it, you just want to go and do something else.

My suggestion would be to have an event that gives double XP, and in the boxes, give away lots of 1/2 hour or 1 hour 150% XP scrolls to help with this. I'm pretty patient and I tend to burn out less quickly than other players, so if I'm feeling it over the grind to level up subclasses, I KNOW it is an issue for other players out there as well.

In sum, for me, the excitement over subclassing has been more about the "possibilities" rather than the actual results.

I was convinced that they would offer insta-level upgrades in the Crown store. I came out of retirement to try subclassing, and re-quit because of the grind. Like I said on my post about it a few months ago, if they'd have offered those upgrades, I would have spent a stupid amount of money on it to save the hassle. I'm just not doing it.

They should have just made it so if you had alt characters with those skill trees leveled up, you could just swap them in and out right away and be able to use them. I think it makes sense to level the skill line if, say, you never had a DK and wanted to use DK class skill lines, but it seems like its just more grind work than necessary to have to level up skill lines that you've already leveled up previously on a different character. It is already grind enough IMO having to hunt down the skysharts necessary to be able to actually USE the skill lines.