What's been fun for you with subclassing?

RealLoveBVB

karthrag_inak wrote: »

For me it isn't eso.

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

Elder scrolls was always a medieval themed game with magic and fantasy for me.
So usually stuff with bows, swords, shield and staff.
Now tell me how a disco laser beam is closer to elder scrolls, than some futuristic game like Fallout?
I haven't seen so many effects and lasers in the single players game. In Fallout I see it everytime.

Maybe it's their 300 IQ strategy. They will add staffs, bows and other ESO-related stuff to Fallout 76. And once the games lack population, they will just merge both games together and nobody will notice any difference

Elowen_Starveil

What's this? A 3-page thread about a controversial subject, and neither of the usual suspects who comment on literally everything have weighed in yet? What's going on around here!? The game really IS dying! ;-)

The Steam chart never lies. The bump from the patch is being sustained. Love it or hate it, subclassing is a bonafide win.

That being said, I see literally no discussion about the Solstice content on the subreddit. What's up with that? It seems like no one is playing that content.

Supreme_Atromancer

So much fun.

I got to make my frost-sorc, with invisibility (cloak) for overland stuff.
I got Restoring Light for a healer loadout on said sorc- and for someone who has done sorc healing for years, suddenly having access to a class-based ground healing aoe is just amazing.

Grinding through Public Dungeons with new skills to level doing stupid stuff and just having a blast.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

This- for me- *so* much!

FeedbackOnly

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So much fun.

I got to make my frost-sorc, with invisibility (cloak) for overland stuff.
I got Restoring Light for a healer loadout on said sorc- and for someone who has done sorc healing for years, suddenly having access to a class-based ground healing aoe is just amazing.

Grinding through Public Dungeons with new skills to level doing stupid stuff and just having a blast.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

This- for me- *so* much!

But vibrant shroud or power surge on sorc healer existed

SilverIce58

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So much fun.

I got to make my frost-sorc, with invisibility (cloak) for overland stuff.
I got Restoring Light for a healer loadout on said sorc- and for someone who has done sorc healing for years, suddenly having access to a class-based ground healing aoe is just amazing.

Grinding through Public Dungeons with new skills to level doing stupid stuff and just having a blast.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

This- for me- *so* much!

But vibrant shroud or power surge on sorc healer existed

Right, but neither also have the benefits that a ground-based heal from Restoring Light would. As well as the passives to back it up.

I recently changed my Necro into a sort of Sload-esque Argonian. Grave Lord, Dark Magic, and Earthen Heart really gives that deep-sea, somewhat coral magic vibe while also allowing for some necromancy with disease/poison damage. Perfect for that Abyssal creature in your life.

BXR_Lonestar

I gotta say that subclassing for me has been kind of a dud. Now I haven't gotten a chance to really do anything fun since my primary goal was to update all of my healers for endgame content (healer main), so take my feedback with a grain of salt, but subclassing really hasn't been all that exciting.

I have started my pet-master build, which is kind of exciting trying to theorycraft what abilities and skill lines will yield the best results, but it is so much grind to try to get subclass skill lines leveled up that it kinda takes away the fun IMO (especially since on my healers, I've had to get carried through content to level up since I have no offensive abilities).

I also have some fun ideas to make a fire/lightning mage, but again, it is so much grind to get subclasses leveled up that by the time you get to the point where you can really start making armor for your build and perfecting it, you just want to go and do something else.

My suggestion would be to have an event that gives double XP, and in the boxes, give away lots of 1/2 hour or 1 hour 150% XP scrolls to help with this. I'm pretty patient and I tend to burn out less quickly than other players, so if I'm feeling it over the grind to level up subclasses, I KNOW it is an issue for other players out there as well.

In sum, for me, the excitement over subclassing has been more about the "possibilities" rather than the actual results.

Bubosh

@Rohamad_Ali it's ESO and it was ESO for more than 10 years, ppl forgetting about what the "O" stands for. This game is not TES(single player rpg) stop wishing so and this patch is basically the worst for the game balance and that is essential for a "ES(ONLINE)" massive online rpg. Worst patch and direction of this game.And I have never seen such clowny laser animations in any TES game so what are you on about by telling it's more a TES game now, this subclassing made the immersion of your classes even worse but okey if you like that rainbow laser show lol

Elowen_Starveil

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I gotta say that subclassing for me has been kind of a dud. Now I haven't gotten a chance to really do anything fun since my primary goal was to update all of my healers for endgame content (healer main), so take my feedback with a grain of salt, but subclassing really hasn't been all that exciting.

I have started my pet-master build, which is kind of exciting trying to theorycraft what abilities and skill lines will yield the best results, but it is so much grind to try to get subclass skill lines leveled up that it kinda takes away the fun IMO (especially since on my healers, I've had to get carried through content to level up since I have no offensive abilities).

I also have some fun ideas to make a fire/lightning mage, but again, it is so much grind to get subclasses leveled up that by the time you get to the point where you can really start making armor for your build and perfecting it, you just want to go and do something else.

My suggestion would be to have an event that gives double XP, and in the boxes, give away lots of 1/2 hour or 1 hour 150% XP scrolls to help with this. I'm pretty patient and I tend to burn out less quickly than other players, so if I'm feeling it over the grind to level up subclasses, I KNOW it is an issue for other players out there as well.

In sum, for me, the excitement over subclassing has been more about the "possibilities" rather than the actual results.

I was convinced that they would offer insta-level upgrades in the Crown store. I came out of retirement to try subclassing, and re-quit because of the grind. Like I said on my post about it a few months ago, if they'd have offered those upgrades, I would have spent a stupid amount of money on it to save the hassle. I'm just not doing it.

Mayrael

It made my PvE solo build even more power to solo everything I like much easier. In PvP? I'm the drunken master with such weirdo build that nobody knows how to counter, I love it

Ryori729

It was fun for a bit. The first few times my Warden Templar beamed someone it was fun. But it is just meh now that I've tried just beaming stuff from start to finish :-)

We get used to things, I know and this is a major change. I had Assignation on a sorc. I know... hard to believe no one thought of that. With the line at near baby level to nuke things with the execute felt wrong. I am not locked into the lore or specific fantasy feel but some things just felt out of place.

Cardhwion

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

For me it isn't eso.

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

Elder scrolls was always a medieval themed game with magic and fantasy for me.
So usually stuff with bows, swords, shield and staff.
Now tell me how a disco laser beam is closer to elder scrolls, than some futuristic game like Fallout?
I haven't seen so many effects and lasers in the single players game. In Fallout I see it everytime.

Maybe it's their 300 IQ strategy. They will add staffs, bows and other ESO-related stuff to Fallout 76. And once the games lack population, they will just merge both games together and nobody will notice any difference

Elder Scrolls always had other vibes, like tech and stuff. Dwemer for one. Or a certain cyborg from the future who helped Alessia. It was always a bit on the weird and alien side of fantasy. As for the beams - they are not lasers, just saying.

Cardhwion

Bubosh wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali it's ESO and it was ESO for more than 10 years, ppl forgetting about what the "O" stands for. This game is not TES(single player rpg) stop wishing so and this patch is basically the worst for the game balance and that is essential for a "ES(ONLINE)" massive online rpg. Worst patch and direction of this game.And I have never seen such clowny laser animations in any TES game so what are you on about by telling it's more a TES game now, this subclassing made the immersion of your classes even worse but okey if you like that rainbow laser show lol

I think they understood where the majority of their fanbase comes from. And actually, I find it much more immersive now, that I have the freedom to build my characters the way I imagine them.

Bubosh

go into any the elder scrolls solo rpg game and tell me it looks similar to this laser show what u46 got into the game, it took out a big bunch of "class identity" and "class immersion" it looks basically bad and lazy the subclass design because all these class skills from other classes are ofc not supposed to be used on another class but zos did it because its easy "new content". @Cardhwion if you like how it looks thats fine to me but its not looking any closer to a real solo tes game, with subclassing it is in fact looking worse now in terms of visuals especially and lets not talk about balancing
And btw since you telling like "they understood where the majority of their fanbase comes from" i suggest you to check out steam charts, its pretty interesting to see the numbers there about the actual case and the player numbers at least for those who run it via steam. (spoiler it doesnt look good there ) but sure ppl always will tell the "majority" even tho they have no valid proof of that.... even steam charts isnt that big of a proof but still interesting too look at as i said :P
I played oblivon for thousands of hours when it released played daggerfall morrowind skyrim almost all of their titles also fallout so im confused about the statement "where majority of their fanbase comes from", am i not a fan anymore since i tell out my opinion which is U46 is the worst patch ever for ESO?

karthrag_inak

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

For me it isn't eso.

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

Elder scrolls was always a medieval themed game with magic and fantasy for me.
So usually stuff with bows, swords, shield and staff.
Now tell me how a disco laser beam is closer to elder scrolls, than some futuristic game like Fallout?
I haven't seen so many effects and lasers in the single players game. In Fallout I see it everytime.

Maybe it's their 300 IQ strategy. They will add staffs, bows and other ESO-related stuff to Fallout 76. And once the games lack population, they will just merge both games together and nobody will notice any difference

Elder scrolls has always been about -choice-, configuring your character however you wanted, not being restricted to a specific class (Although they used to have classes, they were always shortcut templates that could be bypassed or ignored as you progressed)

It seems your issue is more with arcanist (which was introduced 2 years ago) than with subclassing. In fact, everyone you see using beams -has- an arcanist they could just as easily be playing, so this doesn't even belong in this thread, really.

Bubosh

@karthrag_inak its not even only the arc beam its overall all these skill lines are not matching the other class skills for a big reason because they are not supposed to be mixed together. They should have introduced new skill lines new guilds new scribing skills instead of going this way but they did because it was the fastest way to drop out a little more "new content" which in fact is nothing rly new at all. If you like your char being rainbow colored by all the mixed up skills from other class skill lines then its fine and yes infact i didnt like arcanist with all the laser beam skill animations at all when the class came out, it didnt fit ESO and doesnt rly fit into TES in my opinion or i at least have never seen such in any of the elder scrolls titles which i played.

FeedbackOnly

Bubosh wrote: »

@karthrag_inak its not even only the arc beam its overall all these skill lines are not matching the other class skills for a big reason because they are not supposed to be mixed together. They should have introduced new skill lines new guilds new scribing skills instead of going this way but they did because it was the fastest way to drop out a little more "new content" which in fact is nothing rly new at all. If you like your char being rainbow colored by all the mixed up skills from other class skill lines then its fine and yes infact i didnt like arcanist with all the laser beam skill animations at all when the class came out, it didnt fit ESO and doesnt rly fit into TES in my opinion or i at least have ouo

SilverIce58 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So much fun.

I got to make my frost-sorc, with invisibility (cloak) for overland stuff.
I got Restoring Light for a healer loadout on said sorc- and for someone who has done sorc healing for years, suddenly having access to a class-based ground healing aoe is just amazing.

Grinding through Public Dungeons with new skills to level doing stupid stuff and just having a blast.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

This- for me- *so* much!

But vibrant shroud or power surge on sorc healer existed

Right, but neither also have the benefits that a ground-based heal from Restoring Light would. As well as the passives to back it up.

I recently changed my Necro into a sort of Sload-esque Argonian. Grave Lord, Dark Magic, and Earthen Heart really gives that deep-sea, somewhat coral magic vibe while also allowing for some necromancy with disease/poison damage. Perfect for that Abyssal creature in your life.

Minor vitality and power surge catches people outside circle range that templar had.



I morphed never seen such in any of the elder scrolls titles which i played.

I would like to change color of skills. I like arcanist skills just wish it could match my endgame fashion

Bubosh

exactly @FeedbackOnly at least that and especially balance the skill lines out better before releasing it, its a shame to have a pts forum place where ppl give their big feedback in but then zos not reacting to it at all and just throwing out the unbalanced mess into the game so the playerbase gets split even then because of the problematic of the patch.

karthrag_inak

It's going to be much easier balancing things now. No need to concern themselves with 'class balance' when it is individual skills that are going to be the culprit.

If a particular 'class' ends up severely gimped due to 'over-tuning' (khajiit still finds that term funny, images of guitar strings breaking with loud twangs) who cares? The members of that class can subclass out to use other class skills. Might not be ideal for members of that class, but then again, this is Elder Scrolls, where before this game, organized classes were always only a suggestion.

Elvenheart

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Bubosh wrote: »

@karthrag_inak its not even only the arc beam its overall all these skill lines are not matching the other class skills for a big reason because they are not supposed to be mixed together. They should have introduced new skill lines new guilds new scribing skills instead of going this way but they did because it was the fastest way to drop out a little more "new content" which in fact is nothing rly new at all. If you like your char being rainbow colored by all the mixed up skills from other class skill lines then its fine and yes infact i didnt like arcanist with all the laser beam skill animations at all when the class came out, it didnt fit ESO and doesnt rly fit into TES in my opinion or i at least have ouo

SilverIce58 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

So much fun.

I got to make my frost-sorc, with invisibility (cloak) for overland stuff.
I got Restoring Light for a healer loadout on said sorc- and for someone who has done sorc healing for years, suddenly having access to a class-based ground healing aoe is just amazing.

Grinding through Public Dungeons with new skills to level doing stupid stuff and just having a blast.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

This- for me- *so* much!

But vibrant shroud or power surge on sorc healer existed

Right, but neither also have the benefits that a ground-based heal from Restoring Light would. As well as the passives to back it up.

I recently changed my Necro into a sort of Sload-esque Argonian. Grave Lord, Dark Magic, and Earthen Heart really gives that deep-sea, somewhat coral magic vibe while also allowing for some necromancy with disease/poison damage. Perfect for that Abyssal creature in your life.

Minor vitality and power surge catches people outside circle range that templar had.



I morphed never seen such in any of the elder scrolls titles which i played.

I would like to change color of skills. I like arcanist skills just wish it could match my endgame fashion

Just an aside, I remember when City of Heroes, my favorite game before ESO, introduced the option to change the colors of your skills. I had so much fun recoloring my skills to match my concepts of my characters in that game. It was really ahead of its time in a lot of ways.

Bubosh

doesnt make sense to me to have it easier to be balanced now with subclassing than before subclassing. I believe it was super easy to do pre U46 since it wasnt rly that bad U45 with the balancing itself but now subclassing introducing more broken options and possible skill tree match ups will just end up being more balance chaos (what it already is now because of U46 especially) since its basically a lot more they have to look at and they never were rly good at that in my opinion but we will see and i will have fun watching it from distance xD @karthrag_inak and again it's ESO not TES solo rpg and classes were a thing since 10 plus years I don't get any sense out of your statement there no offense tho.

silky_soft

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

For me it isn't eso.

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

Elder scrolls was always a medieval themed game with magic and fantasy for me.
So usually stuff with bows, swords, shield and staff.
Now tell me how a disco laser beam is closer to elder scrolls, than some futuristic game like Fallout?
I haven't seen so many effects and lasers in the single players game. In Fallout I see it everytime.

Maybe it's their 300 IQ strategy. They will add staffs, bows and other ESO-related stuff to Fallout 76. And once the games lack population, they will just merge both games together and nobody will notice any difference

I'll sub again when they add a skill skin for beam that's flames. I want a flame thrower. Also just add lightning and ice animation too for other people.

Maybe even do a special one for that jester festival with it shooting a constant beam of lobsters, like the weapon pack. Jubilee event could be confetti cannon. Mid year mayhem could ballista bolts. I dno what for undaunted, maybe shoots random monster helmets.

Desiato

I had fun adapting to the new meta, which will probably be an ongoing process for a little while until a clear standard emerges for different tiers of trial groups.

I had some fun experimenting in dungeons, but they were already so easy, there's really no satisfaction in doing more damage or whatever benefits one derives from subclassing.

I feel subclassing is mainly enjoyed by raid leads, theorycrafters and casual TES fans.

SilverIce58

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

For me it isn't eso.

But it is Elder Scrolls, more so than this game ever has been before.

Elder scrolls was always a medieval themed game with magic and fantasy for me.
So usually stuff with bows, swords, shield and staff.
Now tell me how a disco laser beam is closer to elder scrolls, than some futuristic game like Fallout?
I haven't seen so many effects and lasers in the single players game. In Fallout I see it everytime.

Maybe it's their 300 IQ strategy. They will add staffs, bows and other ESO-related stuff to Fallout 76. And once the games lack population, they will just merge both games together and nobody will notice any difference

Why is a green beam from a book so crazy? The spells you could create with Morrowind's spellcrafting system can get even crazier and flashier than a simple book beam.
https://youtu.be/SBe3RPnns-4?si=6ll_RASuFOFYW6ps
https://youtu.be/l0tm7rdybAM?si=TymEfL-ccLNk-VQ7

Edit: I get not wanting to see everyone beaming, but to say crazy magic doesnt have a place in the elder scrolls is wild to me. Not to mention how many people are like "the Elder Scrolls is such a grounded game." Like maybe at first glance, but the strangeness of the series is part of what makes it amazing.

Benzux

Seen a few people around calling the grind to level Subclassing skills terrible, but in my experience it's literally the easiest part. With a 150% Xp scroll you get to 10 just by handing in the tutorial quest, and then you can spend the rest of that 1h by doing a random normal once each day for the next couple of days, and it will be done easily. Even quicker if you use the same skill line on multiple characters, since then you can get that once per day juicy XP bonus from a random normal multiple times per day. That might probably the most optimal way to do it, picking up the same two skill lines for multiple characters and then just powerlevelling them with random dungeons.

The skill points are the real difficulty, but even then, it's not like it takes forever to just run through a zone to get skyshards and do the zone's public dungeon group event. I feel like people are just losing their minds running Alik'r Dolmens or doing Skyreach repeatedly or something, when there's far more engaging ways to still level up quickly.

Bubosh

Comparing summoning spells, levitation and fire projectile with impact explosion to a futuristic looking laser Kamehameha is just silly, go into raids and you feel like you entered a disco nowadays especially since almost every dd is using it now since U46 @SilverIce58 and guess what caused that ah true subclassing xD
https://youtu.be/i6xMp6wag4g?si=R1v1NYG9e8HsbxJs if I wouldnt know eso and would see this as endgame gameplay on yt I would be instantly deciding to not give it a try but ofc ppl can like it but I don't. I mean big gg to the raid there but this looks just idk

Desiato

Benzux wrote: »

Seen a few people around calling the grind to level Subclassing skills terrible, but in my experience it's literally the easiest part. With a 150% Xp scroll you get to 10 just by handing in the tutorial quest, and then you can spend the rest of that 1h by doing a random normal once each day for the next couple of days, and it will be done easily. Even quicker if you use the same skill line on multiple characters, since then you can get that once per day juicy XP bonus from a random normal multiple times per day. That might probably the most optimal way to do it, picking up the same two skill lines for multiple characters and then just powerlevelling them with random dungeons.

Yeah. I completed subclassing day 1 via master writs because I happened to have them, but on my mule account I've been playing the odd normal random and it levels pretty quickly.

But more than that, it is SO much more fun to level subclassing that way. It's fun to figure out how to make builds work when the scribed skill line is lacking.. That kind of fun is supposed to be foundational in a game like eso.

SilverIce58

Bubosh wrote: »

Comparing summoning spells, levitation and fire projectile with impact explosion to a futuristic looking laser Kamehameha is just silly, go into raids and you feel like you entered a disco nowadays especially since almost every dd is using it now since U46 @SilverIce58 and guess what caused that ah true subclassing xD
https://youtu.be/i6xMp6wag4g?si=R1v1NYG9e8HsbxJs if I wouldnt know eso and would see this as endgame gameplay on yt I would be instantly deciding to not give it a try but ofc ppl can like it but I don't. I mean big gg to the raid there but this looks just idk

We can agree to disagree because I wasn't debating you about skills being used in raids. I was saying that its silly to say the Elder Scrolls series is just a "medieval rpg with magic and fantasy." You also don't HAVE to join a group doing raids wherein all the people are using beams. Set boundaries for yourself. You can start your own raid group wherein nobody uses beams, and still probably succeed, just like before subclassing existed.

Anyways, everyone knows true endgame is fashion and housing /s

Bubosh

Show me where any TES solo game looks like as in the mentioned raid video of eso and I agree with you but yes I disagree with your statement and showcased video examples BIG time @SilverIce58 and also with the statement about your endgame vision of ESO. Fashion? Where there is full out visual color chaos because of subclassing... Come on

It's not about me or you and if a patch is bad I simply don't play but still can give my feedback as others when they say it doesn't look appealing to them when half of the trial grp is standing still most of the time with a static beam casting. It is about ESO and the actual situation, this game needs to gain players back and not the opposite and I don't see gameplay looking like that any appealing to eventual new customers.

Yudo

Have been investing more time in other games since subclassing so it has been fun actually.

FeedbackOnly

LalMirchi wrote: »

While I'm very enthusiastic about subclassing I think that it lacks the feeling of a polished and finished product. With more testing and attention to detail this could have been so much better.

What is missing for you?