Why is there even a level 1-50?

tamedbeast

Before people think I'm trolling, this is a serious question.

Why does ESO even have levels 1-50 at this point?

Why not just have Champion points and skill levels? What's the point of levels 1-50? It seems like more of a hassle for most players who want to have more alts. Most alt runs just consist of brainless Dolmen runs or other grinds, but why? I mean, if you have done it once already, why make players do it over and over again on alts?

Let's say you just started at max level (whatever your CP level is); you still have to level your skills with XP, regardless of the existence of levels 1-50. And if they want other skill points from campaigns or other content, they'll still have to go do it... so why even have 1-50? It just doesn't make much sense to me, why even have it in the game?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like 1-50 is a pointless grind that should just be removed.

Erickson9610

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

DenverRalphy

After 1 Tamriel landed and Champion levels landed (was that simultaneous? so long I forget), levels 1-50 basically became a longer than normal tutorial.

And now it's being made even more irrelevant with the introduction of subclassing. New players are gonna just love the grind to 50, then instead of only having CP to worry about they're gonna have to simultaneously focus attention on leveling up another class skill or two.

It's going to become more difficult keeping new players motivated to stay the course.

smallhammer

After level scaling, leveling is not fun anymore, and has no meaning, really. Everything's just the same difficulty.

icapital

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The levels 1 - 50 are the Elder Scrolls Online tutorial.

Fixed that fer ya feller.

DenverRalphy

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Which Elder Scrolls game other than ESO uses the 1-50 level structure? Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim didn't.

The Elder Scrolls games basically keep leveling until you run out of skills you can master.

Erickson9610

icapital wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The levels 1 - 50 are the Elder Scrolls Online tutorial.

Fixed that fer ya feller.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Which Elder Scrolls game other than ESO uses the 1-50 level structure? Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim didn't.

The Elder Scrolls games basically keep leveling until you run out of skills you can master.

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

SilverBride

tamedbeast wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like 1-50 is a pointless grind that should just be removed.

I hope that never happens! I absolutely love playing low level characters and take my time getting to level 50 whenever I start a new character. And I don't apply my CP until I reach 50.

Sarannah

Leveling 1-50 and the entire CP system is something unique to ESO, and should never be changed or removed. Only expanded upon!

Having something unique that sets the game a part from other MMO's is a good thing, otherwise what is the point in even playing ESO!? We all have seen the copy and die MMO's, which is what happened to all the WoW-clones that tried to compete with their systems.

It is better to have unique systems and to be unique, which is why I think the previous years have actually been good for ESO, atleast system-wise(ToT/scribing/subclassing/excavation/etc). Regardless of if one likes those new systems, they are unique and give the game flavor.

MJallday

You can’t be level 51 unless you’ve been level 1-50

Hope that helps

Xarc

several things:

• The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls games.
• The best way to slowly learn the game or to resume it after a long break, to re-appropriate all the mechanics, is to start a new character and slowly progress through the levels
• For several years now, ZOS has been doing everything to help us gain XP.
• It is now possible to go from 1 to 50 in 1 or 2 days quite easily.
  From the last 2 points, I think ZOS answers your question: they satisfy both types of people, those who like leveling and those who don't, because you can quickly get over it.

wolfie1.0.

tamedbeast wrote: »

Before people think I'm trolling, this is a serious question.

Why does ESO even have levels 1-50 at this point?

Why not just have Champion points and skill levels? What's the point of levels 1-50? It seems like more of a hassle for most players who want to have more alts. Most alt runs just consist of brainless Dolmen runs or other grinds, but why? I mean, if you have done it once already, why make players do it over and over again on alts?

Let's say you just started at max level (whatever your CP level is); you still have to level your skills with XP, regardless of the existence of levels 1-50. And if they want other skill points from campaigns or other content, they'll still have to go do it... so why even have 1-50? It just doesn't make much sense to me, why even have it in the game?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like 1-50 is a pointless grind that should just be removed.

why even have any grinding? why not jsut give everyone CP 3600 characters with infinite mats and access to ALL gear and resources?

AlterBlika

No point at all. If anything either they should be account wide or we should be able to create a 50 level character.

ApoAlaia

It is somewhat tedious to me, but in my case is because I have done it 32 times so far (along with all the skill line/skill/morph lvling, skyshard picking, dungeon skill point collecting etc.)

Said that I am going to call it self-inflicted so a poor reason IMO to ask for something to be removed or drastically reworked.

However I think the absolutely wild amount of crafting materials/recipes between lvl1 and CP160 could do with some streamlining (to put it mildly), more so when so much that we ask for is rejected because of 'database strain' yet we have the all of the following:

- Alchemy: 16 solvents between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Blacksmithing: 9 ores and 9 ingots between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Clothing: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Jewellery: 4 dusts and 4 ounces between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Provisioning: All 'base game' food recipes are tripled, inherited from pre-one tamriel times, making it hundreds of recipes between lvl1 and CP149.
- Enchanting: 30 runes between lvl1 and CP159 and a bewildering amount of 'recipes' due to the nature of the skill.
- Woodworking: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.

Particularly egregious to me is all the resources invested on CP1 to CP149 that will be experienced once per account.

Streamlining this into let's say one for lvl1 to 50 and one for CP1 to 149 would relieve a substantial amount of 'database strain' that could be used elsewhere.

Same with trait/style materials that still to this day 'drop' as 'dusts' or whatever the 1/10th is called for each.

We have heard time and time again that 'seemingly small things' have a huge impact on database strain, well, that above doesn't seem 'small' to me at all so it must impose a huge burden, disproportionate to how useful they are.

Rungar

I agree at this point cp and levelling should be consolidated into one system that also rewards you for achievements. Ive never liked the cp system. its just a behind the scenes stats and most of it is pretty standard for whatever role your playing. Id much rather see a damage/armor/healing type specialization system that actually changes your character visually and how you play the game.

licenturion

ApoAlaia wrote: »

It is somewhat tedious to me, but in my case is because I have done it 32 times so far (along with all the skill line/skill/morph lvling, skyshard picking, dungeon skill point collecting etc.)

Said that I am going to call it self-inflicted so a poor reason IMO to ask for something to be removed or drastically reworked.

However I think the absolutely wild amount of crafting materials/recipes between lvl1 and CP160 could do with some streamlining (to put it mildly), more so when so much that we ask for is rejected because of 'database strain' yet we have the all of the following:

- Alchemy: 16 solvents between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Blacksmithing: 9 ores and 9 ingots between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Clothing: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Jewellery: 4 dusts and 4 ounces between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Provisioning: All 'base game' food recipes are tripled, inherited from pre-one tamriel times, making it hundreds of recipes between lvl1 and CP149.
- Enchanting: 30 runes between lvl1 and CP159 and a bewildering amount of 'recipes' due to the nature of the skill.
- Woodworking: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.

Particularly egregious to me is all the resources invested on CP1 to CP149 that will be experienced once per account.

Streamlining this into let's say one for lvl1 to 50 and one for CP1 to 149 would relieve a substantial amount of 'database strain' that could be used elsewhere.

Same with trait/style materials that still to this day 'drop' as 'dusts' or whatever the 1/10th is called for each.

We have heard time and time again that 'seemingly small things' have a huge impact on database strain, well, that above doesn't seem 'small' to me at all so it must impose a huge burden, disproportionate to how useful they are.

I agree 100 percent with this.

But the database strain becomes a non-issue when they can sell you a monthly craft bag to fix the problem they created.

You have to understand that those 3 hireling mails per day are so much more straining on the database that they must be expire asap so that the 50000 ingredients and recipes players have in several database tables can remain. Priorities

Eliahnus

Perhaps this game is not for you.

DenverRalphy

Xarc wrote: »

several things:
The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls games.

Name the TES titles (other than ESO) that have a level 1-50 structure.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

tamedbeast

I appreciate the responses, but sadly a lot of them either misunderstood or simply didn't have valid reasons for why it should and does exist.

If you have already done it once, why would you need to do it again?

I've heard.. it's just part of how Elder Scrolls works.. which isn't really a valid reason

I've heard.. It's basically a tutorial.. which still doesn't make sense, since even if you're level 50.. You still have to level your skills and learn them, you dont stop leveling skills because you hit 50.

I've heard..maybe the game isn't for you? ..what? I've played ESO since release, I have a dozen max-level characters, I love the game, I simply have one criticism about the 1-50 grind.

I just really wanted a good, valid reason, like if 1-50 was gone today for those that have done it at least once...what effect would it actually have aside from people's feelings about it, like I would factually like to know what it's really needed for.

Dean340

SilverBride wrote: »

tamedbeast wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like 1-50 is a pointless grind that should just be removed.

I hope that never happens! I absolutely love playing low level characters and take my time getting to level 50 whenever I start a new character. And I don't apply my CP until I reach 50.

I agree, except I do use champion points on new toons, especially gathering and speed related ones.

Erickson9610

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ragnarok0130

@tamedbeast Originally ESO was level gated by zone and you had to reach a certain level before you could proceed to the next area. After level 50 we had veteran ranks 1-16 which was later replaced by the Champion system 1.0 and that was replaced by the current system Champion system 2.0.

Now that ESO isn't level gated the character rank still allows new players to rank up and unlock various skill lines and grind for overland gear teaching them the game system (no matter how bare bones) before they are ranked up enough for group dungeons.

Now for players who have already ranked one character to level 50 I agree with you and think we should have the option to start at level 50 or have a max rank token available for purchase like SWTOR and WOW do in order to allow us to get into end game on alt characters faster.

DenverRalphy

tamedbeast wrote: »

I appreciate the responses, but sadly a lot of them either misunderstood or simply didn't have valid reasons for why it should and does exist.

If you have already done it once, why would you need to do it again?

I've heard.. it's just part of how Elder Scrolls works.. which isn't really a valid reason

I've heard.. It's basically a tutorial.. which still doesn't make sense, since even if you're level 50.. You still have to level your skills and learn them, you dont stop leveling skills because you hit 50.

I've heard..maybe the game isn't for you? ..what? I've played ESO since release, I have a dozen max-level characters, I love the game, I simply have one criticism about the 1-50 grind.

I just really wanted a good, valid reason, like if 1-50 was gone today for those that have done it at least once...what effect would it actually have aside from people's feelings about it, like I would factually like to know what it's really needed for.

If you want a reason as to why it still exists.. here's my opinion.

Because when ESO was first developed, there was an unfortunate lack of forethought and planning resulting in the devs "painting themselves into a corner". The entire base game was designed in a manner that inhibits expandability and evolution in favor of keeping all development in house and proprietary. Especially noticeable with the inability for the engine itself to evolve, but it seems to affect many other aspects of the game as well. Ditching the level 1-50 structure simply isn't an option for them.

Which is why today the basic mechanics of the game is a bit of a smorgasbord of added features piled on top.

tamedbeast

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

@tamedbeast Originally ESO was level gated by zone and you had to reach a certain level before you could proceed to the next area. After level 50 we had veteran ranks 1-16 which was later replaced by the Champion system 1.0 and that was replaced by the current system Champion system 2.0.

Now that ESO isn't level gated the character rank still allows new players to rank up and unlock various skill lines and grind for overland gear teaching them the game system (no matter how bare bones) before they are ranked up enough for group dungeons.

Now for players who have already ranked one character to level 50 I agree with you and think we should have the option to start at level 50 or have a max rank token available for purchase like SWTOR and WOW do in order to allow us to get into end game on alt characters faster.

You know, I remember the VR days. As I said, I have been around since Beta, played the game a lot, took a break for a couple of years, and then came back; I still love the game. I was leveling a new class that I missed out on and was kind of just annoyed that I’m doing the 1-50 again. But at the same time, I’m pretending like 1-50 doesn’t matter and doesn’t exist, even though it does.

I remember the VR zones well, and I was one of the people who actually liked them. I'm not saying that the new way of doing things is really bad, but VR just hits differently.

My next rant should be about having to buy the game twice on console and PC, even though I linked the accounts under my same account Maybe I'll save that for another day.

Thanks for your reply. While some might think I disagree with everything....never mind I do.

Elsonso

icapital wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The levels 1 - 50 are a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The levels 1 - 50 are the Elder Scrolls Online tutorial.

Fixed that fer ya feller.

Heh. Came here to say that.

More seriously, it is a legacy construct and it is largely there because it is there. Like an appendix. At one time, it served a purpose related to crafting, gear, potions, etc.

A lot of things are no longer needed, like 90% of the crafting materials.

Iselin

Because, believe it or not, new players exist. And if you're paying attention, leveling introduces different and more powerful skills in the 4th and 5th slot of skill lines. That's where the progression for new players is until they hit CP160 and start progressing again through permanent gear choices and also CP to 1200+.

Rexicom

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ah yes, the entire Elder Scrolls Franchise: ESO and SKyrim, nothing else.

Mesite

I would prefer if they continued with the levels and got rid of the champion point system. It's such a maze I never think about it, I just get a guide up that tells me which point to put where. Continue the levels past 50 would be ideal and bin the constellations

Erickson9610

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ah yes, the entire Elder Scrolls Franchise: ESO and SKyrim, nothing else.

I never said it was in all of the TES games. It started with Skyrim and probably will continue into future TES games.

Freelancer_ESO

Because it provides an easy way to show progression and to introduce players to gradually introduce new concepts as well as altering the difficulty as people progress.

At low levels, the game starts you off with some very solid stats that it gradually takes away from you as you level up which increases the difficulty as you level up if you do not come up with a decent build.

If you dump people at the equivalent of level 50 to start, combat is going to be an absolute slog for them as they will lack skills, knowledge, and stats to perform.

Rexicom

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ah yes, the entire Elder Scrolls Franchise: ESO and SKyrim, nothing else.

I never said it was in all of the TES games. It started with Skyrim and probably will continue into future TES games.

You said it was a staple of the Elder scrolls franchise. Either you meant it was in all or most of the games, or you consider the franchise to be only skyrim and eso, like I said.