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Subclassing will completely kill non-pet sorcs
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madmufffin✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Concussion is also the worst damage of the 3 status effects too. So you have the least amount of damage options with only boundless (everyone uses hurricane), lightning flood, and mage's wrath (lol), but it also gives a bad status effect.
You remind me, Sorc is also the only Elemental Class without any additional Status Effects damage bonus.
Fire: DK has Combustion
Iec: Wardens have Glacial Presence
And Arcane even has a full-attribute Status Effects damage bonus, namely Psychic Lesion.
Sorc's passive is laughably weak in comparison. If it weren't for the band-aid provided by Daedric Summoning that still allows it to have decent damage, the Sorc would have died long ago.
Yep. I'm pretty sure I've asked for sorc storm changes for like the last 3 pts cycles
3 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭Sadly, and as many people have pointed out many times in the past, the obvious fact is that Dark Magic and Storm Calling is laughably weak.
However, some activists and trolls continue to emphasize how high Sorc's stats are in the analysis, completely ignoring the band-aid provided by Daedric Summoning.
Now with Subclassing, even the developers have made comments that shocked players: "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." They completely failed to realize the issues that players have pointed out many times in the past regarding Dark Magic and Storm Calling, and even worried about the fact that Sorc's Daedric Prey will make other class pets deal more damage, while completely ignoring that Fatecarver gets 8% more damage, and is now able to gain sustained damage from Grave Lord's Sacrifice15% + Rapid Rot10% dot .
Honestly, since Subclassing is almost a done deal, and ZOS has promised to balance PVP alone, why is it unreasonable for Sorc players to demand a complete overhaul of Dark Magic and Storm Calling?"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.13 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭Sadly, and as many people have pointed out many times in the past, the obvious fact is that Dark Magic and Storm Calling is laughably weak.
However, some activists and trolls continue to emphasize how high Sorc's stats are in the analysis, completely ignoring the band-aid provided by Daedric Summoning.
Now with Subclassing, even the developers have made comments that shocked players: "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." They completely failed to realize the issues that players have pointed out many times in the past regarding Dark Magic and Storm Calling, and even worried about the fact that Sorc's Daedric Prey will make other class pets deal more damage, while completely ignoring that Fatecarver gets 8% more damage, and is now able to gain sustained damage from Grave Lord's Sacrifice15% + Rapid Rot10% dot .
Honestly, since Subclassing is almost a done deal, and ZOS has promised to balance PVP alone, why is it unreasonable for Sorc players to demand a complete overhaul of Dark Magic and Storm Calling?
Yeah. There's so many weird niche skills in those two lines that just don't stand up on their own in pve and are just random annoyances in pvp.7 -
ragnarok6644b14_ESO✭✭✭✭Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.2 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Idk why we're acting like non-pet sorc is even used anyways Sorc's imbalanced lines and the overly heavy pet line on your bars makes sorc as a whole dead. The already dead non-pet sorc doesn't really come into play. 3 -
ragnarok6644b14_ESO✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Idk why we're acting like non-pet sorc is even used anyways Sorc's imbalanced lines and the overly heavy pet line on your bars makes sorc as a whole dead. The already dead non-pet sorc doesn't really come into play.
Too bad there's no way they could focus the development of the pet line in some way, like, say, by truly making it about the pets.
Ah well, I guess juggling pet/non-pet mechanics in a single skill line is what we are stuck with... (/S)0 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Tell me, which one is darker and emptier?
Is it Daedric Summoning, which has one skill line and takes up at least 3 and at most 6 slots, or Dark Magic & Storm Calling, which has two skill lines but only takes up 4 slots at most?
Also, don't forget that Daedric Summoning benefits from the passive provided by Storm Calling, and non-pet Sorc is barely used.
No one objects to the fact that pet sorc should continue to exist and provide qualified DPS. What everyone is asking for is to strengthen Dark Magic & Storm Calling and make non-pet Sorc playable (playable is defined as at least having qualified DPS to participate in pve end game, i.e. HM trial)."是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.4 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Idk why we're acting like non-pet sorc is even used anyways Sorc's imbalanced lines and the overly heavy pet line on your bars makes sorc as a whole dead. The already dead non-pet sorc doesn't really come into play.
Too bad there's no way they could focus the development of the pet line in some way, like, say, by truly making it about the pets.
Ah well, I guess juggling pet/non-pet mechanics in a single skill line is what we are stuck with... (/S)
I guess so0 -
ragnarok6644b14_ESO✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Tell me, which one is darker and emptier?
Is it Daedric Summoning, which has one skill line and takes up at least 3 and at most 6 slots, or Dark Magic & Storm Calling, which has two skill lines but only takes up 4 slots at most?
Also, don't forget that Daedric Summoning benefits from the passive provided by Storm Calling, and non-pet Sorc is barely used.
No one objects to the fact that pet sorc should continue to exist and provide qualified DPS. What everyone is asking for is to strengthen Dark Magic & Storm Calling and make non-pet Sorc playable (playable is defined as at least having qualified DPS to participate in pve end game, i.e. HM trial).
Gotcha, people want to be able to dispense with Daedric Summoning for another skill line, and still have utility in their character that doesn't come from the newly slotted line?
(Confirming I understand, hence the ?)Edited by ragnarok6644b14_ESO on April 17, 2025 4:39AM0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭That's also specifically an aoe/azure fight, so there's a much larger presence of other skills than there is normally0
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Yudo✭✭✭I think it is a statement of the direction they want to take this game.
Adapt and use subclassing or get owned. This is how I'm reading into this right now.
As someone who plays exclusively non-pet sorc, not having the logical option to stay pure sorc is sad.Edited by Yudo on April 17, 2025 4:47AM10 -
ragnarok6644b14_ESO✭✭✭✭I think it is a statement of the direction they want to take this game.
Adapt and use subcassing or get owned. This is how I'm reading into this right now.
As someone who plays exclusively non-pet sorc, not having the logical option to stay pure sorc is sad.
This is exactly the same way ESO has been for years, haha. Every time a patch comes out, people adapt or get owned.
I just redid my Templar who was still wearing the Overwhelming/Deadly Strike combo from back in the Before Times. After u46, gonna have to redo her again. C'est la vie with live service games.
Or, I could choose to play her as-is - that old combo is not the best anymore, but it's as *okay* as anything else is. I just have to accept not being perfect.0 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Gotcha, people want to be able to dispense with Daedric Summoning for another skill line, and still have utility in their character that doesn't come from the newly slotted line?
(Confirming I understand, hence the ?)
Even if a new class skill is inserted, it cannot make up for the dps loss of Sorc, because Dark Magic and Storm Calling have low damage and lack passives that benefit other class skills. That's why people are asking for buffs to Dark Magic and Storm Calling. No other class skill line is Physical and Shock Damage themed, and other than Exploitation and Crystal, Dark Magic has no more worthwhile abilities.
Now, the problem is, if I want to play a non-pet sorc, I have to exchange Daedric Summoning, and the new class skill may not be able to fill 6 grids, because not every class has a complete damage skill line like Arc.
If I swap the two sorc skill lines, such as Dark Magic which takes up the least skill slots, I will lose the team buff of Exploitation and make Expert Mage almost useless.
When Arc gains more than 150K single target damage and AOE damage through subclassing, it is difficult for non-pet sorc to even gain more than 110K single target damage. Even for pet sorc, the single target and AOE dps are reduced due to the weakening of Expert Mage and Daedric Prey.
I'd really like someone to come up with a video of a non-pet Sorc getting 150K dps while subclassing (non-Highland Sentry, non-Bug), perhaps you could provide it?"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.2 -
Yudo✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »I think it is a statement of the direction they want to take this game.
Adapt and use subcassing or get owned. This is how I'm reading into this right now.
As someone who plays exclusively non-pet sorc, not having the logical option to stay pure sorc is sad.
This is exactly the same way ESO has been for years, haha. Every time a patch comes out, people adapt or get owned.
I just redid my Templar who was still wearing the Overwhelming/Deadly Strike combo from back in the Before Times. After u46, gonna have to redo her again. C'est la vie with live service games.
Or, I could choose to play her as-is - that old combo is not the best anymore, but it's as *okay* as anything else is. I just have to accept not being perfect.
True, though there is a little more weight to classes. New sets come out, build balance and meta shifts...but no, I don't want to change classes based on where the wind blows and get stuck with off-meta class performance. That is just me, for me class is identity and I am one of those who put a lot of importance on it.Edited by Yudo on April 17, 2025 4:59AM1 -
ragnarok6644b14_ESO✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »I think it is a statement of the direction they want to take this game.
Adapt and use subcassing or get owned. This is how I'm reading into this right now.
As someone who plays exclusively non-pet sorc, not having the logical option to stay pure sorc is sad.
This is exactly the same way ESO has been for years, haha. Every time a patch comes out, people adapt or get owned.
I just redid my Templar who was still wearing the Overwhelming/Deadly Strike combo from back in the Before Times. After u46, gonna have to redo her again. C'est la vie with live service games.
Or, I could choose to play her as-is - that old combo is not the best anymore, but it's as *okay* as anything else is. I just have to accept not being perfect.
True, though there is a little more weight to classes. New sets come out, build balance and meta shifts...but no, I don't want to chance classes based on where the wind blows and get stuck with off-meta class performance. That is just me, for me class is identity and I am one of those who put a lot of importance on it.
Fair enough.
For me, the character is the identity, and from that view a class is just another way to reflect that identity - a way I have been forced to stick with, even as the character evolved.
Those walls have been broken down, and I am excited to see my characters more fully actualize into the world they live in, even if they end up suboptimal.
I once had 4 copies of the same character because I couldn't decide which class fit her best, and ended up having to choose one to keep that was still inadequate but was the closest. Now? With the new system? All that goes away!Edited by ragnarok6644b14_ESO on April 17, 2025 5:03AM1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hmmm, pretty sure I've been asking for reworks to sorcs kit to help non-pet sorcs since U36.Yep, found my old thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621073/sorc-pain-points-and-ideas-on-buffs-changes-and-reworks-to-skills-to-bring-the-class-up-to-par/p1
NOTE: the ideas in the linked thread were proposed back in U36, long before the U41 buffs to sorc, as such the ideas proposed in that thread should be viewed in the context of U36 Sorcerer and not post U41 Sorcerer.
However, with subclassing and the subsequent nerfs to sorc in the name of "balance", I've been taking a look back at my proposed ideas, to see how many actually got implemented in some way:Deadric Summoning:1. Atro - synergy got increased to group wide, not exactly what was asked for, but nice QoL change. (1 point)
2. Haunting Curse - finally became purely AoE instead of the mixed mess it was before, no additional effects or ways to help it into things like cleanse. No change to Daedric prey morph though to help make it a bit more forgiving to use for newer/less skilled/disabled players. (1/2 a point)
3. Ward - Completely over-buffed with the added heal, but it did need something from before it had the heal and the changes to expert summoner. (1/2 a point, since it was technically made stronger, but made too strong)
4. Bound armor - works from either bar, but kept the troublesome aspect of max stats combined with ward and still no major crit chance in the class kit (1/2 a point here for nice QoL, but missed the important changes)
5. Rebate - still as mid as ever (0 points)
6. Daedric Protection - basically being done this upcoming patch with these recoveries being moved to capacitor passive and a new effect being made. (1 point)
7. Expert Summoner - basically being done this upcoming patch where it will grant all 3 attributes, but it will also require a permanent pet to be active to get its effects, excluding it from non-pet builds that needed it more than pet builds did (1/2 a point, the change is technically being done, but then excluded from the builds that truly needed it)
Overall ZOS gets 5 points here out of a possible 8 points. 2 of those points however are from the upcoming U46 changes and 2.5 points can basically be removed for U46, since this line got heavily adjusted (nerfed) and will also no longer work for non-pet builds despite carrying multiple core abilities that non-pet sorcs relied on. Basically 2.5 points for this skill line if U46 goes through with no changes.
Dark Magic:1. Negate - No change here, still not worth using outside of very niche PvP exclusive situations (0 points)
2. Crystal Shards - No changes here, still ok in PvE, but fallen off in PvP for Curse that does more damage, is also AoE, is not RNG dependent, and cannot be easily dodged (0 points)
3. Encase - This ability got a very nice overhaul, one morph is a solid burst heal for the caster when combined with the blood magic passives self heal, but still a little clunky to use as a group heal, especially for less organized groups, the other morph finally has guaranteed damage, but unfortunately still messes with tanks CC in PvE making it awkward to use as a DPS skill. (1 point, as this ability went from complete nothing to having actual uses)
4. Rune Prison - No changes here, still a useless and unreliably ability that is completely outclassed by streak. (0 points) Side note, the vengeance version was a very nice change to this ability.
5. Dark Exchange - Some small buffs here, granting some minor buffs, still bad in PvE and too easy to interrupt for a main burst heal in PvP. (1/2 a point, since it technically was updated)
6. Daedric mines - 1 morph changed into a group support skill, but this didn't fix the issue the ability had which was being prohibitively expensive for what it does post U35 nerf. (1/2 a point I guess since it's technically group support non-pet sorcs can use)
7. Blood magic - Good change here, allowing it to proc on cast instead of on hit fixed it's biggest issues. (1 point)
8. Persistence - No change here, still only good for Sorc tanks that want to face-tank hits, still useless for sorcs that rely on avoiding damage instead of face-tanking it. (0 points)
Overall ZOS gets 3 points here out of a possible 8 points. The changes to encase and blood magic were the best 2 changes to come out of U41, both in terms of being good but also balanced updates to sorcs abilities. Too bad there was basically nothing else given to this skill line outside of a couple of very minor increase to exchange and minor use case for 1 morph of mines.
Storm Calling:1. Overload - No changes to this ability that just keeps getting buggier and worse to use with every new patch (0 points)
2. Mages Fury - No changes until U46 and that is only a nerf it an ability that was already dropped from most of sorcs bars over 7 years ago. (0 points)
3. Lightning Form - No changes here, hurricane is still good for PvE, but both morphs are mid at best in PvP, especially since they were never updated to reflect the new melee attack range of 7m with their base radius remaining at the old 5m, so melee attackers can completely avoid this ability entirely with zero issue (0 points)
4. Lightning Splash - Still one of the worst DoTs in the game with a hidden cast time that causes many failed casts and all of it's power locked behind the synergy that can't even be self-activated. The radius increase did not fix this ability that only gets slotted if an organized trial group desperately needs 1 more synergy. (0 points)
5. Surge - No direct changes here, but with scribing and ele sus giving solid sticky DoT options, this ability has felt slightly better. (0 points still since there was no change here)
6. Bolt Escape - No changes here, but still the strong in PvP, niche option for tanks in PvE that it has always been. (0 points)
7. Capacitor - Daedric protection's recoveries will be here in U46, while not the exact change I was looking for, it is finally combining the 2 passives into 1. Have to see if being changed to flat values in U46 is a buff or a nerf though (1 point for now, might be 0 if the values end up being a nerf)
8. Amplitude - No changes here (0 points)
9. Expert Mage - Being changed to flat damage instead of percent increase in U46. Have to see if the percentages are a nerf or a buff and if they come close to matching the fighters guild percent increase. (potentially 1 point, have to wait and see what the math says about this change)
Overall ZOS gets between 0 and 2 points here out of a possible 9 points and that depends on how U46 shapes up for this skill line. The consolidation of capacitor and daedric protections recoveries were something that was sorely needed, however the adjustments in U46 to capacitor and expert mage to being flat values instead of percent values leave big question marks over this line actually being any better at all.
Looking back, the changes that have been made since that thread has been quite eye-opening on how ZOS seems to view sorc internally, and it is not a good thing for those who prefer no-pet sorcs.
While I never expected ZOS to implement all of my changes from the above linked thread, the fact that ZOS went and updated 50% of the pet skill line since then, and barely 25% of either of the other 2 skill lines despite the other 2 needing updates much more than the pet line did, has definitely shown how ZOS sees the Sorcerer class (hint, it's not as a mage).
This perception of how ZOS views sorc is only reinforced by ZOS's own (rather snippy) developer statements (essentially telling all non-pet sorc players to go play something else if they don't like pets) and the adjustments made to sorcerer in the U46 PTS patch notes that basically removed all the non-pet aspects of the Daedric Summoning line that were core abilities for non-pet sorc builds, but then also gave less than nothing in return for the other 2 lines.8 -
Yudo✭✭✭Ward, curse, bound armor and even the atro ulti.
4 out of 6 skills in the line that do not benefit from passives if you choose to not slot one of the two pets.
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Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭supabicboi wrote: »ur suggestions are futile, zos will most likely not change their minds with their plan to slaughter sorcs. who even uses those 2 ugly ahh pets
non-pet sorcs will have to, have to, subclass, if not, its just an f tier class.
By no-pet sorc you mean arccrosorc? Which is straight up downgrade from arccroplar and which will be unwanted in group pve and also pointless really as you lack both efficiency and class gameplay/identity.
And in pvp sorc can’t efficiently subclass at all. So all it got was huge nerfs in the name of subclassing(multiclassing).
And the line “if you don’t want to interact with pets replace the skill line as a whole” almost sounds like an insult to be honest. As if they wanted to say that they don’t care nor do they want to bother.
To be completely honest, I really don’t think most players would slot daedric summoning for pvp even before the nerfs. Some would at least give it try, because as things stand it’s among the most undesirable skill lines due to how much commitment it requires for little gain, not to mention pets’ general extremely poor performance in pvp.
Edited by Zyaneth_Bal on April 17, 2025 9:12AM8 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »The Hardened Ward nerf is outright vicious to non-pet sorcs.
Never understood this instinct ZOS has to make weaker specs even weaker, but they sure do seem to love it.
imho, they never miss an opportunity to cater to the 'nerf sorcs' community.
6 -
AtriaKhorist✭✭✭✭- Buff Mage's Fury
- Buff Lightning Splash
- Buff Negate Magic
- Move Daedric Curse to Dark Magic. It has nothing to do with Summoning. Transfer lost pet power to the actual pets instead where it always belonged and give the morph a new effect instead. Also offers more flexibility of skills that way rather than mandating Daedric Prey for all pet sorcs and making Haunting Curse useless.
- Move Conjured Ward to Dark Magic and rename it Dark Ward. It has nothing to do with Summoning and non-pet definitely needs it more.
- Move Daedric Mines to Daedric Summoning where it does belong.
- Move Rune Prison to Daedric Summoning. Could go on either Skill Line depending on fluffing tbh, but one needs to replace the other, and Dark Magic already has a root option via Encase.
I'd love to have Bound Armour in Dark Magic tbh, but in all fairness, thematically it belongs in Daedric Summoning. Curse does not.Grim Focus Permaglow is still a problem: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641376/grim-focus-permaglow9 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well it is a giant pain for PVP, the classic sorc combo is spread 1 skill in each tree....curse, frags, wrath. Granted that combo is obsolete now....the only tree you rationally would want to keep is storm calling for streak.
Realistically curse should move to dark magic and be redone, with one morph providing major and minor breach and one explosion and the other minor breach and two explosions.
Pet buff should move to bound armor/armaments and be always on.
7 -
DaisyRay✭✭✭AtriaKhorist wrote: »- Buff Mage's Fury
- Buff Lightning Splash
- Buff Negate Magic
- Move Daedric Curse to Dark Magic. It has nothing to do with Summoning. Transfer lost pet power to the actual pets instead where it always belonged and give the morph a new effect instead. Also offers more flexibility of skills that way rather than mandating Daedric Prey for all pet sorcs and making Haunting Curse useless.
- Move Conjured Ward to Dark Magic and rename it Dark Ward. It has nothing to do with Summoning and non-pet definitely needs it more.
- Move Daedric Mines to Daedric Summoning where it does belong.
- Move Rune Prison to Daedric Summoning. Could go on either Skill Line depending on fluffing tbh, but one needs to replace the other, and Dark Magic already has a root option via Encase.
I'd love to have Bound Armour in Dark Magic tbh, but in all fairness, thematically it belongs in Daedric Summoning. Curse does not.
I would add for them to please make dark conversion instant and not able to be bashed. I loved everything else though. I hope zos considers it.⭑･ﾟﾟ･*:༅｡.｡༅:*ﾟ:*:✼✿ DaisyRay ✿✼:*ﾟ:༅｡.｡༅:*･ﾟﾟ･⭑5 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭AtriaKhorist wrote: »- Buff Mage's Fury
- Buff Lightning Splash
- Buff Negate Magic
- Move Daedric Curse to Dark Magic. It has nothing to do with Summoning. Transfer lost pet power to the actual pets instead where it always belonged and give the morph a new effect instead. Also offers more flexibility of skills that way rather than mandating Daedric Prey for all pet sorcs and making Haunting Curse useless.
- Move Conjured Ward to Dark Magic and rename it Dark Ward. It has nothing to do with Summoning and non-pet definitely needs it more.
- Move Daedric Mines to Daedric Summoning where it does belong.
- Move Rune Prison to Daedric Summoning. Could go on either Skill Line depending on fluffing tbh, but one needs to replace the other, and Dark Magic already has a root option via Encase.
I'd love to have Bound Armour in Dark Magic tbh, but in all fairness, thematically it belongs in Daedric Summoning. Curse does not.
Yes, this would be pretty nice.2 -
AtriaKhorist✭✭✭✭AtriaKhorist wrote: »- Buff Mage's Fury
- Buff Lightning Splash
- Buff Negate Magic
- Move Daedric Curse to Dark Magic. It has nothing to do with Summoning. Transfer lost pet power to the actual pets instead where it always belonged and give the morph a new effect instead. Also offers more flexibility of skills that way rather than mandating Daedric Prey for all pet sorcs and making Haunting Curse useless.
- Move Conjured Ward to Dark Magic and rename it Dark Ward. It has nothing to do with Summoning and non-pet definitely needs it more.
- Move Daedric Mines to Daedric Summoning where it does belong.
- Move Rune Prison to Daedric Summoning. Could go on either Skill Line depending on fluffing tbh, but one needs to replace the other, and Dark Magic already has a root option via Encase.
I'd love to have Bound Armour in Dark Magic tbh, but in all fairness, thematically it belongs in Daedric Summoning. Curse does not.
I would add for them to please make dark conversion instant and not able to be bashed. I loved everything else though. I hope zos considers it.
Honestly, good call.
I get the gameplay loop of using streak to distance yourself and then cast in safety, but with mix and match skill lines it sort of needs to work without Streak on your bar.Grim Focus Permaglow is still a problem: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641376/grim-focus-permaglow3 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭
With how common mobility is and new melee range this no longer works though to be honestAtriaKhorist wrote: »AtriaKhorist wrote: »- Buff Mage's Fury
- Buff Lightning Splash
- Buff Negate Magic
- Move Daedric Curse to Dark Magic. It has nothing to do with Summoning. Transfer lost pet power to the actual pets instead where it always belonged and give the morph a new effect instead. Also offers more flexibility of skills that way rather than mandating Daedric Prey for all pet sorcs and making Haunting Curse useless.
- Move Conjured Ward to Dark Magic and rename it Dark Ward. It has nothing to do with Summoning and non-pet definitely needs it more.
- Move Daedric Mines to Daedric Summoning where it does belong.
- Move Rune Prison to Daedric Summoning. Could go on either Skill Line depending on fluffing tbh, but one needs to replace the other, and Dark Magic already has a root option via Encase.
I'd love to have Bound Armour in Dark Magic tbh, but in all fairness, thematically it belongs in Daedric Summoning. Curse does not.
I would add for them to please make dark conversion instant and not able to be bashed. I loved everything else though. I hope zos considers it.
Honestly, good call.
I get the gameplay loop of using streak to distance yourself and then cast in safety, but with mix and match skill lines it sort of needs to work without Streak on your bar.
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Malyore✭✭✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Tell me, which one is darker and emptier?
Is it Daedric Summoning, which has one skill line and takes up at least 3 and at most 6 slots, or Dark Magic & Storm Calling, which has two skill lines but only takes up 4 slots at most?
Also, don't forget that Daedric Summoning benefits from the passive provided by Storm Calling, and non-pet Sorc is barely used.
No one objects to the fact that pet sorc should continue to exist and provide qualified DPS. What everyone is asking for is to strengthen Dark Magic & Storm Calling and make non-pet Sorc playable (playable is defined as at least having qualified DPS to participate in pve end game, i.e. HM trial).
Pets need to be double slotted to be viable. Can you remove the repeated pets so we can see how much of the skill line is actually being used, rather than how many slots it forcefully takes.
EDIT: I tried to cross them out on my phone.
Edited by Malyore on April 18, 2025 12:06AM0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »Beacon of Oblivion class set actually good now with subclassing
Worthless tank lines make up for your class defensive passives being gone now too0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Do the screenshot again but just cross out the Daedric summoning skills that aren't pets
Because I can. It's six.
There are six Daedric summoning skills in that screenshot that aren't pets. And it's actually just the same skill, six times.
Are we really claiming non-pet sorc is ruined by showing pet sorc screenshots?
Yes, if you take pets away from pet Sorcs, they are ruined. I am not sure the devs are doing that though .... maybe I should read the patch notes again.
If you want, I can repost the screenshot blacking out only the non-pet Daedric Summoning skills that were used.
Tell me, which one is darker and emptier?
Is it Daedric Summoning, which has one skill line and takes up at least 3 and at most 6 slots, or Dark Magic & Storm Calling, which has two skill lines but only takes up 4 slots at most?
Also, don't forget that Daedric Summoning benefits from the passive provided by Storm Calling, and non-pet Sorc is barely used.
No one objects to the fact that pet sorc should continue to exist and provide qualified DPS. What everyone is asking for is to strengthen Dark Magic & Storm Calling and make non-pet Sorc playable (playable is defined as at least having qualified DPS to participate in pve end game, i.e. HM trial).
Pets need to be double slotted to be viable. Can you remove the repeated pets so we can see how much of the skill line is actually being used, rather than how many slots it forcefully takes.
EDIT: I tried to cross them out on my phone.
I mean it's pretty simple there to count the unique skills being used:
Pets:
1. Scamp
2. Tormentor
3. Prey (this might as well be a pet since its mandatory to have pets deal competitive damage)
4. Atro
5. Armaments (yes this is a summon)
Stormcalling:
1. Hurricane
2. Lightning Splash
3. 1 single Fury
Dark Magic:
1. Frags
Seems pretty obvious to me how much of each line is being used, even accounting for unique skills and completely ignoring morph choices, daedric summoning has almost twice as many unique skills used as storm calling and 5 times as many as dark magic.
Even taking out prey (because some people just love to nit pick) pets are still ahead of storm calling (even keeping the singular use of fury) and so blatantly more used than dark magic it's insane.
No amount of nit-picking, goal post moving, or other gaslighting will change the fact that both non-pet skill lines for sorcerer are just blatantly underpowered for PvE, with only a few other abilities being strong in their niche as PvP abilities.1
