Subclassing will completely kill non-pet sorcs

ZhuJiuyin · April 15

In previous versions, most of the DPS of PVE Sorc came from Daedric Summoning. Therefore, once Daedric Summoning was swapped out through Subclassing, non-pet sorc players would find it awkward that, in addition to Crystal and Hurricane, they could hardly carry the abilities from the other two Sorc lines.

The biggest pain points of non-pet sorcs at present are:
Dark Magic: Apart from crystals and trading, other skills and passive abilities are unremarkable. Storm Calling: Surge, Lightning Splash, Boundless Storm, and Endless Fury all need to be reworked, otherwise they will not be able to compete with other Subclassings.

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Power Stone and Persistence are exchanged, so that Daedric Summoning's abilities, except for pets, become maintenance and tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.

supabicboi · April 15

ur suggestions are futile, zos will most likely not change their minds with their plan to slaughter sorcs. who even uses those 2 ugly ahh pets

non-pet sorcs will have to, have to, subclass, if not, its just an f tier class.

noblecron · April 15

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

katorga · April 15

noblecron wrote: »

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

Sorc/arcanist/necro....can buff fatecarver well over 100% b4 crits. No pets. Also as brainless as a heavy attack build.

Ezhh · April 15

katorga wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

Sorc/arcanist/necro....can buff fatecarver well over 100% b4 crits. No pets. Also as brainless as a heavy attack build.

If I wanted to play with fatecarever I'd be playing an arcanist not a sorc.

Not everyone wants "brainless" or low CPM beam builds.

gc0018 · April 15

Make pet useful may be easier. Pet should be inactive rather than disappear when you swap to a bar without pet.

ESO_Nightingale · April 15

Ezhh wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

Sorc/arcanist/necro....can buff fatecarver well over 100% b4 crits. No pets. Also as brainless as a heavy attack build.

If I wanted to play with fatecarever I'd be playing an arcanist not a sorc.

Not everyone wants "brainless" or low CPM beam builds.

i second this, im playing Winters Embrace+Gravelord+Assassination

ESO_Nightingale · April 15

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

In previous versions, most of the DPS of PVE Sorc came from Daedric Summoning. Therefore, once Daedric Summoning was swapped out through Subclassing, non-pet sorc players would find it awkward that, in addition to Crystal and Hurricane, they could hardly carry the abilities from the other two Sorc lines.

The biggest pain points of non-pet sorcs at present are:
Dark Magic: Apart from crystals and trading, other skills and passive abilities are unremarkable. Storm Calling: Surge, Lightning Splash, Boundless Storm, and Endless Fury all need to be reworked, otherwise they will not be able to compete with other Subclassings.

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Power Stone and Persistence are exchanged, so that Daedric Summoning's abilities, except for pets, become maintenance and tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.

i definitely agree with the first couple of suggestions, id play with dark magic if i could get crystal frags and bound armaments on the same line. id probably use dark conversion too.

NoSoup · April 15

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

In previous versions, most of the DPS of PVE Sorc came from Daedric Summoning. Therefore, once Daedric Summoning was swapped out through Subclassing, non-pet sorc players would find it awkward that, in addition to Crystal and Hurricane, they could hardly carry the abilities from the other two Sorc lines.

The biggest pain points of non-pet sorcs at present are:
Dark Magic: Apart from crystals and trading, other skills and passive abilities are unremarkable. Storm Calling: Surge, Lightning Splash, Boundless Storm, and Endless Fury all need to be reworked, otherwise they will not be able to compete with other Subclassings.

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Power Stone and Persistence are exchanged, so that Daedric Summoning's abilities, except for pets, become maintenance and tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.

i definitely agree with the first couple of suggestions, id play with dark magic if i could get crystal frags and bound armaments on the same line. id probably use dark conversion too.

Your Ice Warden can be a fire and ice warden now, flame whip their frosty butts.....

DaisyRay · April 15

This is going to be awful, I hate the pets in pve and pvp. In pvp they die so often, in pvp they attack enemies before we're ready and in both they ruin my line of sight. I hate that I'm being forced to use them or to give up the skill.

I don't know about any other main sorcs, but I wasn't planning on changing any skill lines when subclasses dropped. Mainly because I liked everything as it was. Now I'll have to redo my pve and pvp builds or learn how to use another class.

Trejgon · April 15

Personally I heavilly dislike the removal of non-pet elements from the daedric summoning, and I absolutely hate the reasoning. This ain't animal companion skill line, where every skill is pet zos, this is a skill line, that has 2 pets, a turret ult (which got excluded from counting for pet passives anyway) shield that just happened to also apply to pets to justify it being in that skill line otherwise it's not summoning anything, burst that has one morph that interacts with pets,, and conjured armor/aegis/armaments skill that does not interact with pets at all, and even saw a change in the very same patch notes, to combo nicer with dark magic skill crystal weapons..... Oh and it got denied interaction with the passives when they were changed to be based on presence of perma pets instead of just daedric summoning ability being slotted/active.

So in other words, with this change and reasoning if one wanted to keep some staple sorc tools that were not pet-relevant, in U46 they have to either decide to have dead weight passives, or be forced into pets, because "if you want no pets just sub the line away, dropping those non-pet tools completely". Not very nice devs, not very nice.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.

Well yeah, if the way forward is assumption that daedric summoning is "the" pet skill line and if you don't want to deal with sorc pets, just sub it away, they definitelly they need to move out the non-pet skills from it to somewhere else. At the very minimum.

ZhuJiuyin · April 15

Since Daedric Summoning takes up most of the PVE Sorc slots (Permanent Pets 4 + Atronach 1 + (Possible Bound Armaments 1), this has caused past pet-sorcs to complain about not having enough slots.
However, since Subclassin requires at least one sorc skill line to be retained, non-pet sorc players will find it embarrassing that, except for Crystal and Hurricane, they can hardly carry the abilities from the other two sorc lines.

This means that if Daedric Summoning is swapped out, Sorc will almost never be able to use any abilities from the Sorc class skill line, because those abilities either have very low damage or have extremely poor passives in the skill line. If I don't need to carry the Sorc class skill, why don't I choose other class combinations Subclassing from the beginning?

Even if I swap Daedric Summoning with Herald of the Tome, I will still lose the team buff from Atronach, and the dps still won't be enough to compete with other Subclassing compositions.

ForumBully · April 15

Subclassing isn't doing this, ZoS's weird devotion to Sorc pets is doing this. They could have stripped the heal from hardened ward, specified "Daedric Summoning pets only" on some passives if they wanted, and called it a day.
Instead they put up and "Pet Sorcs Only" sign and told everyone else to go pound sand.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · April 15

I will log into the PTS and look at my own sorc, but he is a tank, and I suspect a necro line (sacrificing Hardened Ward but gaining one-button major and minor resolve) or Arcanist for runespite ward and the class taunt sounds awesome. I may lose some max magicka but I gain a lot of power back (depending on which class I go with, I think I could make it work).

For my specific character, I think Arcanist is more their flavor than Necro, and I think that should keep my tank as competitive and fun as ever.

ZhuJiuyin · April 15

Fatecarver gets 8% more damage, and is now able to gain sustained damage from Grave Lord's Sacrifice15% + Rapid Rot10% from Grave Lord by Subclassing, as well as a large amount of Critical from Assassination, now capable of over 140K on single target.
Yet, the developers are worried that Sorc's Daedric Prey will allow pets from other class lines to deal more damage? In addition, they completely ignore the other Sorc skill lines. The other two skill lines are seriously lacking in reasonable damage skills and have terrible passive abilities.

The other three old classes don't have this problem. The Templar's damage skills, aside from the obviously named Restoring Light (even Ritual of Retribution is located on that skill line), are effectively spread across the other two skill lines.
All three skill lines of DK have good attack capabilities and passives, and even NB's passive abilities, even for Siphoning, can provide many ultimate points.

@ZOS_Kevin Please adjust Dark Magic and Storm Calling so that they are truly balanced.

In the Dark Magic line of Sorc, only Crystal Fragments and Exploitation are valuable, and Storm Calling, except for Hurricane, has almost no PVE skills worth inserting. Even the passive abilities, since Storm Calling actually lacks Shock and Physical Damage that are practical in PVE, and most other classes also lack Shock and Physical Damage, Energized does not have much value. Expert Mage also loses value after swapping Daedric Summoning for other class skill lines because Dark Magic and Storm Calling are rarely used in PVE. Also, because sorc's pets have Shock Damage, Energized will be useless to sorcs if pets are not used.
Due to the reasons mentioned above, the remaining skills and passive abilities of non-pte Socr are almost completely incompatible with other classes.

I'm not against Subclassing, but if Dark Magic and Storm Calling are not completely remade, non-pte Socr will completely die in Subclassing.

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Exchange Power Stone with Persistence to turn all Daedric Summoning abilities except pets into tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.
6. Reworked Endless Fury, removed the execution effect, and provided more damage, making it a spam skill for sorc.
7. Reworked Power Surge and changed it to a sticky dot similar to Degeneration.
8. Buff Shattering Spines, so that it gives a 10-second sticky dot and a 4-second delayed burst of direct damage, making it a qualified damage skill.
9. Defensive Rune has been reworked to have an effect similar to Solar Barrage, dealing direct damage every 5 seconds centered on itself, and increasing the damage the target receives from the black magic skill line.

Malyore · April 15

Contrarily, I think subclassing will completely expand my non-pet sorc. This is what I've been waiting for, to get rid of those pets. This is one of the largest reasons I'm excited for subclassing.

ZhuJiuyin · April 15

According to the current patch, Subclassing does not help non-pet Sorc. When Arc gets more than 140K single target damage through Subclassing, non-pet Sorc is in trouble.
Dark Magic and Storm Calling doesn't have enough reasonable damage skills to fill 12 slots, or even half of them, which is 6/12. Also, by swapping out Daedric Summoning, non-pet Sorc loses the Atronach and Major Berserk team benefits.
The only class that could possibly make this work as a non-pet Sorc is Herald of the Tome, but there's really no reason to use any of the Dark Magic or Storm Calling abilities when Herald of the Tome + Grave Lord + Assassination can do over 140K single target and AOE damage.

If people really care about non-pet Sorc, they should call on the developers to buff Dark Magic and Storm Calling to give them more reasonable damage skills and passive abilities.

Soundinfinite · April 15

Malyore wrote: »

Contrarily, I think subclassing will completely expand my non-pet sorc. This is what I've been waiting for, to get rid of those pets. This is one of the largest reasons I'm excited for subclassing.

This is true, my fellow player. I hate the pets, and have been in game for 10 years and done everything I could to not use the pets.

HOWEVER, unfortunately, what people are pointing out...is that some of the stongest non-pet and buff skills the sorc offers (Haunting Curse burst damage, Sheilds, and Passive Bound Armor, giving minor protection & minor Armor while buffing your max stat) mixed with some of the strongest passives of the sorc, such as doing 10% more damage WHEN NOT running pets....guts the effectiveness of a non-pet sorc build. (Not to mention, it guts the group play attractiveness due to u no longer providing Major.Beserk)

Why roll a sorc at all...the devs stance is basically, play a pet sorc or play something else...

This is just from a dps and not going into how this screws with Sorc Tanks....

In short, there are absolutley no benifits to being a sorc now, unless you are a pet sorc....it is much much better to roll another class and just take lightning line as a subclass skill there...than be a sorc that drops their pet line....

Of course, if you are a player that cares not about your group viability, overall dps, and effectivenss in combat...and just want to play around doing whatever...then sure...this is no problem...but if you want to be effective (and Im not saying 1% playerbase bleeding edge effective either) then this hurts a non pet sorc a lot and is is sorta dirt being rubbed in the wound with the developers blatantly saying, subclass it if u dont want pets.

katorga · April 15

Ezhh wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

Sorc/arcanist/necro....can buff fatecarver well over 100% b4 crits. No pets. Also as brainless as a heavy attack build.

If I wanted to play with fatecarever I'd be playing an arcanist not a sorc.

Not everyone wants "brainless" or low CPM beam builds.

Not sure what you want "matters" to ZOS. ZOS decided to completely wreck sorc, so you have to adapt if you want to keep playing it. I've been through a few years were Sorc was just not wanted or played at all over the last 10. It was not fun. I eventually swapped mains for necro, then that got totally wrecked too, lol.

Ironically the only value Sorc will have is subclassing Storm calling to better classes for PVP.

The only value Necro has is subclassing grave lord to buff Arcanist.

The DPS "meta" will be Arc herald of the tome, NB Assassination, and Necro Grave Lord for maximum beam power. I don't think anything else will be competitive. Maybe other classes can replace NB in the mix, but not likely.

MasterSpatula · April 15

The Hardened Ward nerf is outright vicious to non-pet sorcs.

Never understood this instinct ZOS has to make weaker specs even weaker, but they sure do seem to love it.

Soarora · April 15

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The Hardened Ward nerf is outright vicious to non-pet sorcs.

Never understood this instinct ZOS has to make weaker specs even weaker, but they sure do seem to love it.

How though? Sorcs have many heals at their disposal, a heal on a shield is crazy. It’s not like the shield portion got nerfed.

Ezhh · April 15

katorga wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

non pet sorcs were half dead to begin with because most endgame content required pets to begin with

Sorc/arcanist/necro....can buff fatecarver well over 100% b4 crits. No pets. Also as brainless as a heavy attack build.

If I wanted to play with fatecarever I'd be playing an arcanist not a sorc.

Not everyone wants "brainless" or low CPM beam builds.

Not sure what you want "matters" to ZOS. ZOS decided to completely wreck sorc, so you have to adapt if you want to keep playing it. I've been through a few years were Sorc was just not wanted or played at all over the last 10. It was not fun. I eventually swapped mains for necro, then that got totally wrecked too, lol.

Ironically the only value Sorc will have is subclassing Storm calling to better classes for PVP.

The only value Necro has is subclassing grave lord to buff Arcanist.

The DPS "meta" will be Arc herald of the tome, NB Assassination, and Necro Grave Lord for maximum beam power. I don't think anything else will be competitive. Maybe other classes can replace NB in the mix, but not likely.

Oh don't mistake my meaning. I'm not foolish enough to think for a moment that my feelings or opinions matter even slightly to them. I've completed almost every trifecta in this game (just missing MM which I'm currently progging) and I know how it works if you want to keep playing at that level. It's not like I haven't made my own compromises.

Doesn't mean I won't speak my mind about what these changes mean for my enjoyment after my own years of playing. It's not like I'm alone in being unhappy about the direction things are taking.

allochthons · April 15

My stamsorc had languished for years, I only made one because prior to hybridization, I created a mag and stam version of each class.

But I recently switched my stam sorc to Xynode's updated Lazy Sorc, which is non-pet stamina. And I LOVE IT. The AoE damage is so much fun.

I can't use it in trifectas, but it is awesome in most trials, dungeons and the IA.

Guess I'll have to play the hell out of it for the next few months, because this change to Daedric Summoning will completely dismantle it.

It uses Bound Armaments (swap out to crystal weapon if you need Exploitation/Minor Prophecy), conjured ward, and the Atronach. Fully 1/2 of the skills of this 1-bar build will be completely wiped out. (The other 3 being wall, crit surge, and shocking banner).

I'm not against subclassing. In general I think it's going to be great. But I don't think pure classes should be gutted along the way.

What if someone doesn't have access to the arc skills? For instance, if they don't own necrom? What will their sorcs do then?

yeeGK · April 16

100%,ZOS dont know how to do balance,so they want all of us to play arc,then they no need to do balance on other 6 class lol

DaisyRay · April 16

They should just stop with the nerfs all together. There is never going to be a day where the game is fully balanced, that's long gone. Nor will you ever be able to make everyone happy. People will always get mad when they die and come here to rant about something being op. Aka, they want it to be easier so the don't die as much. The majority of people begging for nerfs are the pvpers who can't handle dying to another person. I think they should probably go play pve instead.

MasterSpatula · April 16

Soarora wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The Hardened Ward nerf is outright vicious to non-pet sorcs.

Never understood this instinct ZOS has to make weaker specs even weaker, but they sure do seem to love it.

How though? Sorcs have many heals at their disposal, a heal on a shield is crazy. It’s not like the shield portion got nerfed.

By giving up the Matriarch, the non-pet Sorc is giving up the best heal in their toolkit. Taking the heal off Hardened Ward takes their third-best heal (or second-best, depending on who you ask) out of their toolkit.

You're literally talking giving the heal to the Sorcs who need the heal the least and taking it from those who need it the most.

ZhuJiuyin · April 17

Dear @ZOS_Kevin ,considering the developers seem to have a serious lack of understanding of Sorc, here are the Top builds from the LChm log 1st boss.
The red circle is the Daedric Summoning skill, and the blue circle is all skills other than Dark Magic and Storm Calling.

Now tell me, how many damaging skills does Dark Magic and Storm Calling have? There are two skill lines, but they only provide Sorc with about 3 skills, which is only 3/12 of the slots.

The following is a more intuitive presentation. I have blacked out all skills that are not Dark Magic and Storm Calling.

Pretty impressively empty, right? The developers simply told us "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." As if Sorc could easily become a non-pet Sorc by just swapping the Daedric Summoning skill line.
NO! This is impossible, and there is not even a reasonable "trade-off" or "choice" because various wrong decisions in the past have made Daedric Summoning the only viable damage option for Sorc. Now you have to significantly buff the damage skills and passives of Dark Magic and Storm Calling to make non-pet Sorc accessible in the next Subclassing.

During this more than one month PTS cycle, at least the following things need to be done to prevent non-pet Sorc, or even pet Sorc, from dying completely due to Subclassing.

1. Adjust the damage of the three Sorc skill lines separately. For example, Daedric Summoning must emphasize the pet alone, rather than having Energized and Amplitude from Storm Calling to get enough damage.

2. Clarify the themes of the three skill lines. For example, Dark Magic emphasizes magical damage and debuffs, while Storm Calling emphasizes Physical and Shock Damage and buffs. This means that those skills with low usage rates must be greatly enhanced or remade, such as Suppression Field, Shattering Spines, Rune Prison, Daedric Mines, Boundless Storm, Endless Fury, Critical Surge, etc. For example, buffing Shattering Spines, removing Major Maim, and increasing its damage, and granting it a 10-second sticky dot and a 4-second delayed burst of direct damage, making it a qualified damage skill.

3. Improve the usefulness of passive abilities. Dark Magic's passive is really bad now and needs to be reworked, and the new changes to Daedric Summoning are meaningless. Furthermore, their passives are severely disconnected from, or even unrelated to, the Active Abilities of the skill line. For example, Dark Magic's passive, except for Exploitation, the others do not affect dps. Especially Persistence, it's just terrible.
Unholy Knowledge should be moved to Persistence and merged with it, and a new passive ability should be added to New Unholy Knowledge: When you deal damage with a Sorc class skill, increase the damage your target takes by 3/6% for 10 seconds. This effect will be triggered every 10 seconds.

I'm not against Subclassing, but if Sorc isn't completely reworked, then non-pet Sorc and even pet Sorc will completely die out in Subclassing.

madmufffin · April 17

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Dear @ZOS_Kevin ,considering the developers seem to have a serious lack of understanding of Sorc, here are the Top builds from the LChm log 1st boss.
The red circle is the Daedric Summoning skill, and the blue circle is all skills other than Dark Magic and Storm Calling.

Now tell me, how many damaging skills does Dark Magic and Storm Calling have? There are two skill lines, but they only provide Sorc with about 3 skills, which is only 3/12 of the slots.

The following is a more intuitive presentation. I have blacked out all skills that are not Dark Magic and Storm Calling.

Pretty impressively empty, right? The developers simply told us "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." As if Sorc could easily become a non-pet Sorc by just swapping the Daedric Summoning skill line.
NO! This is impossible, and there is not even a reasonable "trade-off" or "choice" because various wrong decisions in the past have made Daedric Summoning the only viable damage option for Sorc. Now you have to significantly buff the damage skills and passives of Dark Magic and Storm Calling to make non-pet Sorc accessible in the next Subclassing.

During this more than one month PTS cycle, at least the following things need to be done to prevent non-pet Sorc, or even pet Sorc, from dying completely due to Subclassing.

1. Adjust the damage of the three Sorc skill lines separately. For example, Daedric Summoning must emphasize the pet alone, rather than having Energized and Amplitude from Storm Calling to get enough damage.

2. Clarify the themes of the three skill lines. For example, Dark Magic emphasizes magical damage and debuffs, while Storm Calling emphasizes Physical and Shock Damage and buffs. This means that those skills with low usage rates must be greatly enhanced or remade, such as Suppression Field, Shattering Spines, Rune Prison, Daedric Mines, Boundless Storm, Endless Fury, Critical Surge, etc. For example, buffing Shattering Spines, removing Major Maim, and increasing its damage, and granting it a 10-second sticky dot and a 4-second delayed burst of direct damage, making it a qualified damage skill.

3. Improve the usefulness of passive abilities. Dark Magic's passive is really bad now and needs to be reworked, and the new changes to Daedric Summoning are meaningless. Furthermore, their passives are severely disconnected from, or even unrelated to, the Active Abilities of the skill line. For example, Dark Magic's passive, except for Exploitation, the others do not affect dps. Especially Persistence, it's just terrible.
Unholy Knowledge should be moved to Persistence and merged with it, and a new passive ability should be added to New Unholy Knowledge: When you deal damage with a Sorc class skill, increase the damage your target takes by 3/6% for 10 seconds. This effect will be triggered every 10 seconds.

I'm not against Subclassing, but if Sorc isn't completely reworked, then non-pet Sorc and even pet Sorc will completely die out in Subclassing.

1000% this. Even pet sorc has no chance of being used in subclassing because realistically you have to use 6 slots just to get value out of the kit. Lightning flood while comparable to boneyard and winter's revenge on tooltip, it has the weakest class elemental bonus tied to it and is still miles off of talons. If you consider that acceptable, it's still the only really usable lightning skill sorc has available since hurricane is just substantially better than boundless and the rest of the skill line is niche pvp stuff. At the very least make mage's wrath scale from a higher percentage like all the other executes and give sorc a 10% phys and lightning bonus that is comparable to the other class bonuses. The class can't just be stuck as a pvp annoyance with how much exposure each individual line is getting right now.

ZhuJiuyin · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

1000% this. Even pet sorc has no chance of being used in subclassing because realistically you have to use 6 slots just to get value out of the kit. Lightning flood while comparable to boneyard and winter's revenge on tooltip, it has the weakest class elemental bonus tied to it and is still miles off of talons. If you consider that acceptable, it's still the only really usable lightning skill sorc has available since hurricane is just substantially better than boundless and the rest of the skill line is niche pvp stuff. At the very least make mage's wrath scale from a higher percentage like all the other executes and give sorc a 10% phys and lightning bonus that is comparable to the other class bonuses. The class can't just be stuck as a pvp annoyance with how much exposure each individual line is getting right now.

Thanks. Even Lightning Splash isn't actually that good, since Dragonknight has 5% passive buff to flame damage + 6% flame debuff on enemies = 11% Buff to Flame Damage, Warden (will get) 10% buff to Frost Damage and bonus damage from Glacial Presence, and Sorc.... a measly 5% buff to Shock Damage.
This makes Shock Damage automatically the weakest element. Right now, Sorc has three skill lines: Shock Damage from Storm Calling, the weakest element, Daedric Summoning, which does more damage but takes up too much skill slot to justify the cost, and Dark Magic, which has powerful crystals but no other decent damage skills.
Now, in Subclassing, these three skill lines will not have any players choosing them in PVE, maybe, maybe someone will choose one of them in PVP, but not too many. And you don't even need to use Sorc as the main class.

Without the enhancements to Dark Magic and Storm Calling, Subclassing will become a death warrant for all Sorcs, signed by ZOS himself.

madmufffin · April 17

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

1000% this. Even pet sorc has no chance of being used in subclassing because realistically you have to use 6 slots just to get value out of the kit. Lightning flood while comparable to boneyard and winter's revenge on tooltip, it has the weakest class elemental bonus tied to it and is still miles off of talons. If you consider that acceptable, it's still the only really usable lightning skill sorc has available since hurricane is just substantially better than boundless and the rest of the skill line is niche pvp stuff. At the very least make mage's wrath scale from a higher percentage like all the other executes and give sorc a 10% phys and lightning bonus that is comparable to the other class bonuses. The class can't just be stuck as a pvp annoyance with how much exposure each individual line is getting right now.

Thanks. Even Lightning Splash isn't actually that good, since Dragonknight has 5% passive buff to flame damage + 6% flame debuff on enemies = 11% Buff to Flame Damage, Warden (will get) 10% buff to Frost Damage and bonus damage from Glacial Presence, and Sorc.... a measly 5% buff to Shock Damage.
This makes Shock Damage automatically the weakest element. Right now, Sorc has three skill lines: Shock Damage from Storm Calling, the weakest element, Daedric Summoning, which does more damage but takes up too much skill slot to justify the cost, and Dark Magic, which has powerful crystals but no other decent damage skills.
Now, in Subclassing, these three skill lines will not have any players choosing them in PVE, maybe, maybe someone will choose one of them in PVP, but not too many. And you don't even need to use Sorc as the main class.

Without the enhancements to Dark Magic and Storm Calling, Subclassing will become a death warrant for all Sorcs, signed by ZOS himself.

Concussion is also the worst damage of the 3 status effects too. So you have the least amount of damage options with only boundless (everyone uses hurricane), lightning flood, and mage's wrath (lol), but it also gives a bad status effect.

ZhuJiuyin · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

Concussion is also the worst damage of the 3 status effects too. So you have the least amount of damage options with only boundless (everyone uses hurricane), lightning flood, and mage's wrath (lol), but it also gives a bad status effect.

You remind me, Sorc is also the only Elemental Class without any additional Status Effects damage bonus.
Fire: DK has Combustion
Iec: Wardens have Glacial Presence
And Arcane even has a full-attribute Status Effects damage bonus, namely Psychic Lesion.

Sorc's passive is laughably weak in comparison. If it weren't for the band-aid provided by Daedric Summoning that still allows it to have decent damage, the Sorc would have died long ago.