Veteran Lep Seclusa feels more like a Trial for 4 people

Oceanchanter

Grand Healing: Sea Elf skill style is probably the only thing that would motivate me to do veteran dungeon challenges.
I mean, it fits me perfectly.
So, ever since the patch dropped, ive been trying to get it.
Sadly, with no success.

I did complete my fair share of veteran dungeons with randoms as a healer, with some achievments included, and it never felt like a Trial but with 4 person squad.
So far I've reached only Noriwen on Veteran, before the sqad fell apart cause clearly it's not good enough. Some of the runs fell apart at Garvin.

I'm still snorting copium like cocaine that this dungeon just dropped and it will take few weeks for people to figure everything out, and before I notice there will be min-maxing guides on how to complete it, which in turn it will feel like a breeze Bedlam Veil was.

But I'm not sure.
Am I taking crazy pills?

twisttop138

I'm on console so I can't confirm. I will say though that I'm preparation for the PS5 release I've been watching the guides that are out. It looks super fun. Things should be challenging on vet and hm. This is the newest content in the game. I also think maybe your problem is running with random people? I have much more success with guild mates but that's just me. You are correct though I think. It just dropped. Soon people will be farming it and it won't be an issue. I wish you luck, hopefully you get that skill style.

aleksandr_ESO

I finish the first time as a DD. It was a long run with a lot of wipes. Obviously, healer was weak due to inexperience. I went on the next runs as a healer. And these were confident runs. 5 consecutive runs with different random players and zero wipes. The mechanics on the veteran mode are simple. The healer and the tank literally carry DDs of any level from 600 CP to 3000

Thysbe

We did our usual HM blind run on Monday and agreed on the difficulty beeing well balanced. Some hints in the spoiler.

For the first boss - Garvi - you have to break line of sight to boss when he does the poison clouds. When 2 players are chained together you have to break line of sight between the 2 players.

Second boss: The only thing that was really mean was Noriwen´s chains DOT on the tank. The tank has to stay close and follow the boss whenever she jumps, thats really important.
We focused the small gryphons to play safe - first the melee one then the flying one.

To be fair we are playing together for years and know the ropes. Communicating with each other also helps.
Maybe you were just really unlucky with the group and will find the dungeon way easier grouped with other players.

Soarora

PuGs do not do well with new dungeons for a while. When Graven Deep came out, PuG runs took a long time and didn’t always work out and that dungeon is fairly easy.

Trier_Sero

Finished vet with pug on first day. Wiped only once on the boss with giant griffon. Don't know about HMs, but vet seems well balanced.

Renato90085

use stam nb dps finished both hm
I think it puts a lot of pressure on tanks and healers..
dps just need aoe and kill add mobs first

PapaTankers

We did a blind run without knowing mechs on vet on day of release and only wiped twice.
No wipes on 2nd run. This dungeon isnt that hard.

salander7

Impopular opinion, but we're used that vet DLC dungeon let mechanics be forgiving or damage stops, so people kind of ignore mechanics if dmg is high enough.
These ones do not, and to be fair, I'm glad for a dungeon where mechanics are not "do a lot of dmg and heal a lot of damage" or "stop dmg and do minigame". That makes them harder than usual on plain vet, even when adds are not dangerous per se, but that's because plain vet is nuke and run, or get forgiven for not playing mechs properly. Even hardmode is not difficult once you get the dynamics
Even in vet, dynamics are pretty simplified and detailed on spoiler.

First boss is just cutting line of sight w the boss, be careful not to aggro dunerippers, be careful w the positioning and add clear/interrupting. You don't even have the tether or need to deal w the dunerippers as long as you don't aggro them, since they don't aggro on execute.
Second is just casting dds not standing in aoes, and tank going back to the boss of the room quickly or prebuffing a shield or heal over time before getting chained, the dot is a joke compared to vet anyway. When in the back of the room, dds should block or avoid the big gryphon slaps (even though they don't kill, just to not get knocked back)
Third is just going right and left, not stacking with tank too much, and minding the round AOEs from one mini and tentacles, and stay in the line when it moves. Block the gryphon slaps again when on the side and you're good.
The optional bosses have basically no mechanics, the last one is just interrupt the minis and main, and you're fine.

If you can sum up a boss fight in a line, it's not a trial boss.
We got Lep Seclusa tri with a person that had never been there on the 2nd run (and we had been there only the day before, not on pts), and none of us are doing scorepushing or anything.

NoticeMeArkay

What sets or skills do you bring to the table? Are you running with pugs or a dedicated 4-man group?

I'm a healer main on PC EU. Playing a necromancer healer and I've finished both the no death and the speed run on release day. Only missing the HM at this point, which I already did for the second newly released dungeon incombination with ND+SR to unlock the green destro staff wall.

I only run with pugs. Always have.

In order to help you with your problem, we'd require a bit more information to tell why it appears to be noticably difficult for you.

Oceanchanter

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

What sets or skills do you bring to the table? Are you running with pugs or a dedicated 4-man group?

I'm a healer main on PC EU. Playing a necromancer healer and I've finished both the no death and the speed run on release day. Only missing the HM at this point, which I already did for the second newly released dungeon incombination with ND+SR to unlock the green destro staff wall.

I only run with pugs. Always have.

In order to help you with your problem, we'd require a bit more information to tell why it appears to be noticably difficult for you.

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.

Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.

Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.

Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Problem is, it seems a lot of people do not know the mechanics of this trial just yet; at least from my experience.
My goal is to get this achievment, which requires no deaths during boss fights + raising the difficulty level on the final boss.
I can heal well, but if the DPS stays in the AOEs or doesn't break line of sight, there's nothing I can do.

I was unlucky with the communications part as well. Either people I encountered didn't speak english, didn't look at the chat, or didnt care.

Worst case, I'll do a dedicated group one day.

salander7

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Okay. That's a lot. Highlighting the parts I want to comment.

I had to look up Fledgling and Blind Induction. First thing, if someone tells me "SoB, Transformative and Tarnished" I would guess pvp build.
Not even considering skills, which are for sure something to be considered, but let's tackle sets.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Fledgling gives a recovery that is currently not needed and minor courage upon leaving the aoe, so it's a bad source of it, and considering you can get it with a skill from scribing, or even a regular arcanist skill. There's a reason Yolnakhriin got ditched into oblivion as a set.
Using 5 pieces for a buff that you can get for free with 4 skills, 3 of them are any class, and one that you're already using is a waste.
Troll king is just a poor monster set in pve right now. It's healer oriented, but not a good one. At best, it's a situational alternative in some DLC trials when not having access to DLC sets.
Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Now on templar:

Templar best utility in dungeons as healer is being able to slot a couple dmg skills and add some dmg to adds below 40%. While you can heal with it, nothing outstanding on their class kit from the support point of view.
Symphony of Blades is not a bad one, but currently underperforming as sustain is quite good in general. Sets like ozezan or the blind will likely be more interesting, or encratis, nazaray, arch or spaulder of ruin if you want to buff your group dmg.
Transformative is a bit of a gamble if the fight is appropiate. Because it may proc on the wrong time or your target may not fulfill the requirements. If the fight is not appropiate (as in not huge HP drops, like most fights), it's just a waste. Tanks and healers can get Major heroism from trample, or tanks also use Drake rush in dungeons to provide the full team with a much higher and reliable uptime.
Tarnished is just something that's only run in pvp, best case, maybe on trashpulls as a dd on certain classes. Sundered doesn't add anything from support point of view, minor breach is literally anywhere, and the 400 spell and weapon dmg are just for you.

Long story short, as a healer you have two tasks, give heals and increase group damage.
The fact you can do certain trifectas with 3 dds on yellow vigor tells you how many heals are needed, but a careless dd/tank will die regardless, no one can heal instakills. However, on the group damage increase part, you're doing almost nothing.

Even the best healer is in the hands of dds and tanks, so can rightfully blame those roles many times, but in that same capacity, a bad healer is easier to carry than a bad tank, as long as there's not a huge heal check, and damage checks are not so huge that the healer buffs make the difference. That you never had an issue means you never had been in certain situations.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

Getting tankier, as a healer, doesn't matter that much, you're still in light armor and having around 26k hp will not save you, so reducing your mag pool and decreasing your healing output will not help, as you'll just need to focus more on your heals, therefore decreasing your attention on buffs.

So, you're not doing what's possible. You can play this game as you want, but you're not adding much to your group besides heals, which are either not needed in enormous quantities, or not enough

Soarora

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

salander7

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Olorime is painful bc pugs tend to magically avoid it, no doubt. But I didn't want to throw in another set if OP didn't want recomendations, so out of the ones that they mentioned...

I personally like to Olorime on tank, since he can put it behind the boss easily, also with Cryptcannon, and that way the healer can use Master Architect and Sax with barrier, that way you get two dd ults on a very short lapse with full major force and major slayer. But that's not for pugs, but organised groups.
As a pug healer for dungeons I'd go Spell Power Cure - Powerful Assault or SPC - Master Architect on most places.

Kahnak

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Soarora

salander7 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Oh yeah, no, I agree about serpent’s destain, I just think an argument can be made for a warden doing brittle (probably using frost reach or ele sus, but maybe with scribing). With how little healing is needed in a lot of dungeons, healers should be doing some damage because massive overhealing is a waste, but only after healing, buffs, and debuffs are fulfilled, so usually not by sacrificing a set. Lightning for off-balance is good, but I doubt PuGs are running exploiter and a lot of PuGs are HA sorcs anyways.

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Olorime is a relatively small circle. PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage. I know you don’t need to actively stand in it but PuGs won’t go out of their way to step through it. There’s regular overhealing in most content and even when there isn’t (which I can only think of falg hm and vcr+3 executes) people run SPC anyways. Dungeons really don’t do that much damage aside from a few HMs here and there. That’s why most can be 3DPSed. SPC won’t magically fix everything, but it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it).

Kahnak

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Oh yeah, no, I agree about serpent’s destain, I just think an argument can be made for a warden doing brittle (probably using frost reach or ele sus, but maybe with scribing). With how little healing is needed in a lot of dungeons, healers should be doing some damage because massive overhealing is a waste, but only after healing, buffs, and debuffs are fulfilled, so usually not by sacrificing a set. Lightning for off-balance is good, but I doubt PuGs are running exploiter and a lot of PuGs are HA sorcs anyways.

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Olorime is a relatively small circle. PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage. I know you don’t need to actively stand in it but PuGs won’t go out of their way to step through it. There’s regular overhealing in most content and even when there isn’t (which I can only think of falg hm and vcr+3 executes) people run SPC anyways. Dungeons really don’t do that much damage aside from a few HMs here and there. That’s why most can be 3DPSed. SPC won’t magically fix everything, but it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it).

"Olorime is a relatively small circle."

Circle of Might is 7m, which is functionally as big as your Grand Healing AOE, which is not small.

"PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage."

Okay, so in turn, how are you going to keep overhealing them to keep up SPC?

"There’s regular overhealing in most content"

In organized content, sure. But you're talking about pugging. In that case, it depends entirely on who is in the group and who is doing the healing. Overhealing doesn't just spawn out of the ground, and I know I'm not the only ESO player who has watched a healer heavy attack their way through the dungeon (that is if it isn't a fake healer). You're talking about a PUG healer who has to have the apm and the presence of mind to manage overhealing the group for good uptime. It's not that dissimilar from managing Minor Berserk uptime from Combat Prayer, and for someone who is not used to doing that, it could be a pretty big ask.

"it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it)"

Agreed, but when you've got DPS who know where to stand the difference between the two basically vanishes. In fact, for a mostly stationary fight I think Olirime is probably better because of the stat lines and the duration of the buff. The fact that the buff is 20 seconds, but can proc every 10 seconds creates a beneficial overlap/safety net that can contribute to uptime in the event that the healer has to rez or is the victim of a dungeon mechanic that pulls them away.

And again, I'm not trying to say that one is that much better than the other, I'm just saying that Olirime isn't the big stinky turd people are acting like it is.

Soarora

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Oh yeah, no, I agree about serpent’s destain, I just think an argument can be made for a warden doing brittle (probably using frost reach or ele sus, but maybe with scribing). With how little healing is needed in a lot of dungeons, healers should be doing some damage because massive overhealing is a waste, but only after healing, buffs, and debuffs are fulfilled, so usually not by sacrificing a set. Lightning for off-balance is good, but I doubt PuGs are running exploiter and a lot of PuGs are HA sorcs anyways.

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Olorime is a relatively small circle. PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage. I know you don’t need to actively stand in it but PuGs won’t go out of their way to step through it. There’s regular overhealing in most content and even when there isn’t (which I can only think of falg hm and vcr+3 executes) people run SPC anyways. Dungeons really don’t do that much damage aside from a few HMs here and there. That’s why most can be 3DPSed. SPC won’t magically fix everything, but it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it).

"Olorime is a relatively small circle."

Circle of Might is 7m, which is functionally as big as your Grand Healing AOE, which is not small.

"PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage."

Okay, so in turn, how are you going to keep overhealing them to keep up SPC?

"There’s regular overhealing in most content"

In organized content, sure. But you're talking about pugging. In that case, it depends entirely on who is in the group and who is doing the healing. Overhealing doesn't just spawn out of the ground, and I know I'm not the only ESO player who has watched a healer heavy attack their way through the dungeon (that is if it isn't a fake healer). You're talking about a PUG healer who has to have the apm and the presence of mind to manage overhealing the group for good uptime. It's not that dissimilar from managing Minor Berserk uptime from Combat Prayer, and for someone who is not used to doing that, it could be a pretty big ask.

"it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it)"

Agreed, but when you've got DPS who know where to stand the difference between the two basically vanishes. In fact, for a mostly stationary fight I think Olirime is probably better because of the stat lines and the duration of the buff. The fact that the buff is 20 seconds, but can proc every 10 seconds creates a beneficial overlap/safety net that can contribute to uptime in the event that the healer has to rez or is the victim of a dungeon mechanic that pulls them away.

And again, I'm not trying to say that one is that much better than the other, I'm just saying that Olirime isn't the big stinky turd people are acting like it is.

I recall the circle being much smaller than illustrious, but to be fair I’ve only looked at it in content do maybe I’m seeing the size wrong.

Radiating regeneration. Damage is not so high that radiating won’t proc SPC, especially if burst heals are going out when needed.

I suppose I am thinking from the perspective of a healer who knows how to heal and not a PuG healer. That said, when I was new I ran spc/jorvulds. I later transitioned into ma + 1-bar spc “before it was cool” because I spent so much time on my backbar. Uptimes were fine. I feel like olorime has more of a learning curve than spc does. But most of all, need DPS to know to touch it.

Well, yeah if we’re talking about DPS that know to stand in it then olorime isn’t that bad. But PuG DPS won’t stand in it.

Oceanchanter

Like Ive said, Warden wasn't even a serious try.

Ok, I've tried veteran 3 times today.

Respecced back to 64 Magicka.
Had the Blind set on my Sorc, so I gave it to my Templar instead of Symphony.
Replaced Tarnished with Olorime, kept Transformative hope cause I have no other healing set from Trials.
I used Olorime for a long time so I know how to place the circle.
I was focused on healing only, not doing damage.

The furthest I made today with randoms was the ballista guy.
One squad fell apart at the optional guy cause one DD died. I guess they also wanted the achievment.

Thanks for the input guys. I have a feeling, however, no matter how close to meta I will be, if the squad is bad - it's bad.

Gonna give it some time, then either try again or make my own squad for the sole goal of getting that achievment and the skill style.

Soarora

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Thanks for the input guys. I have a feeling, however, no matter how close to meta I will be, if the squad is bad - it's bad.

Gonna give it some time, then either try again or make my own squad for the sole goal of getting that achievment and the skill style.

Yeah. Upgrading builds helps but can't always save people from themselves. Even trying to PuG Fang Lair challenger was a struggle-- that's what led me to join a dungeon guild. If you're on NA you're welcome to come join, I can send you the information. Most people are going for the trifecta, but I have seen some people wanting to do vet or challenger. I'd offer to run it with you too but unfortunately, I don't have ESO+. I wish you luck!

Jaimeh

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

I also like Olorime on my healer, and regardless of how it fares against SPC, I generally find it more interesting to use in terms of playstyle, it adds an extra component to the rotation, and I like the challenge of it. If you get used on how to proc it properly, it becomes easy, even in unruly PUGs where DDs move a lot (also it helps if you can generally anticipate where DDs will stand in a fight).

tmacedo

Soarora wrote: »

PuGs do not do well with new dungeons for a while. When Graven Deep came out, PuG runs took a long time and didn’t always work out and that dungeon is fairly easy.

To this day its one the few pledges I may not complete in the day in pugs because zelvrakk wiping. Always the same things. Still find one of the hardest for general pugging.

SwimsWithMemes

I pugged Lep as tank. The only change I needed to make was swapping chains for purge on the gryphon lady

frogthroat

strebor2095 wrote: »

swapping chains for purge on the gryphon lady

That's a good idea!

We did a blind run with friends. I am not really a tank, but I tanked it. (One DD was with a PVP build, so... a vampire.) I ended up running after the gryphon boss to avoid pull that places that annoying DOT. But still many a time I got pulled and had to deal with the DOT. Purge, of course. Maybe should slot that in the future.

We had fun and at least the normal vets are definitely possible to do with a rag tag group of players, with a noob tank and a vampire with a PVP build. And although the assets are recycled, these still feel new. Like having big rocks in the middle of the arena where you fight the first boss was interesting.

JaxontheUnfortunate

Did a vet (non HM) of sep leclusa as a werewolf tank and that was fun.

Fischblut

I didn't want to stress myself as tank, so I went as DD for both of new dungeons. Magblade for Exiled Redoubt, magsorc (no pets) for Lep Seclusa. Magblade felt a bit squishy, magsorc felt like a godmode I might try one of arcanists too just to compare, but looks like I've found a new character for my PvE activities!

Also, Lep Seclusa turned out to be much easier than Exiled Redoubt, this shocked me I'm sure that tanks and healers felt different, so I only speak from DD perspective.

I don't know what gear tanks and healers wore, as this were "silent" groups who only said "Hello" and "Thanks", but I noted that for Lep Seclusa tank had 57k health, and he didn't seem to have any problems with sustain

In Exiled Redoubt, we all died few times from chained lighting damage on horse rider boss
In Lep Seclusa, healer died only 1 time, and stamnb DD died one time on almost every boss to some DoTs (which makes all my stamina DDs feel even more insecure about these dungeons).

I personally love when healer wears Olorime set, and I wear it too on my healer.

It is bad to assume that people in pick-up groups are bad just because they are not in your guild or in your friend list - I do every dungeon with such groups for many years. Some of friends I've found were from such groups And with improved Group Finder, searching people for achievement runs is much more comfortable than before.
People in guilds doesn't automatically become good, and guild runs can actually apply more pressure - the most unpleasant persons I've seen in this game were actually from "a PvE guild with family feeling" many years ago

You can create a group listing titled "vet clear attempt" for one of new dungeons and state required CP level. My friend laughed at this title when I was about to tank one of DLC dungeons for the first time with group title like this, but we found two other people very fast I think many skilled players feel nervous when trying new dungeon for the first time on vet, so when your group description is relaxed like this, they feel more comfortable to join. Also, not all players will join if you don't require CPs or set CPs at too low number (for HM achievements I set 1500 CPs, for regular vet it can be less).

Soarora

Fischblut wrote: »

It is bad to assume that people in pick-up groups are bad just because they are not in your guild or in your friend list - I do every dungeon with such groups for many years. Some of friends I've found were from such groups And with improved Group Finder, searching people for achievement runs is much more comfortable than before.
People in guilds doesn't automatically become good, and guild runs can actually apply more pressure - the most unpleasant persons I've seen in this game were actually from "a PvE guild with family feeling" many years ago

If you’re talking about my disparaging of PuG skill level, it’s not an assumption. I PuG vet dungeons often, typically multiple times a week. And have been doing that for the past 5 years. I’ve also made friends through it, but no PuG run is better than a guild run. I’m always surprised when I run with guildies because they kill things so much more efficiently.

I like that PuGs aren’t as good as guildmates, that’s why I PuG so often. But it’s objectively a large difference.

Kahnak

Soarora wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Oh yeah, no, I agree about serpent’s destain, I just think an argument can be made for a warden doing brittle (probably using frost reach or ele sus, but maybe with scribing). With how little healing is needed in a lot of dungeons, healers should be doing some damage because massive overhealing is a waste, but only after healing, buffs, and debuffs are fulfilled, so usually not by sacrificing a set. Lightning for off-balance is good, but I doubt PuGs are running exploiter and a lot of PuGs are HA sorcs anyways.

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Olorime is a relatively small circle. PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage. I know you don’t need to actively stand in it but PuGs won’t go out of their way to step through it. There’s regular overhealing in most content and even when there isn’t (which I can only think of falg hm and vcr+3 executes) people run SPC anyways. Dungeons really don’t do that much damage aside from a few HMs here and there. That’s why most can be 3DPSed. SPC won’t magically fix everything, but it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it).

"Olorime is a relatively small circle."

Circle of Might is 7m, which is functionally as big as your Grand Healing AOE, which is not small.

"PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage."

Okay, so in turn, how are you going to keep overhealing them to keep up SPC?

"There’s regular overhealing in most content"

In organized content, sure. But you're talking about pugging. In that case, it depends entirely on who is in the group and who is doing the healing. Overhealing doesn't just spawn out of the ground, and I know I'm not the only ESO player who has watched a healer heavy attack their way through the dungeon (that is if it isn't a fake healer). You're talking about a PUG healer who has to have the apm and the presence of mind to manage overhealing the group for good uptime. It's not that dissimilar from managing Minor Berserk uptime from Combat Prayer, and for someone who is not used to doing that, it could be a pretty big ask.

"it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it)"

Agreed, but when you've got DPS who know where to stand the difference between the two basically vanishes. In fact, for a mostly stationary fight I think Olirime is probably better because of the stat lines and the duration of the buff. The fact that the buff is 20 seconds, but can proc every 10 seconds creates a beneficial overlap/safety net that can contribute to uptime in the event that the healer has to rez or is the victim of a dungeon mechanic that pulls them away.

And again, I'm not trying to say that one is that much better than the other, I'm just saying that Olirime isn't the big stinky turd people are acting like it is.

I recall the circle being much smaller than illustrious, but to be fair I’ve only looked at it in content do maybe I’m seeing the size wrong.

Radiating regeneration. Damage is not so high that radiating won’t proc SPC, especially if burst heals are going out when needed.

I suppose I am thinking from the perspective of a healer who knows how to heal and not a PuG healer. That said, when I was new I ran spc/jorvulds. I later transitioned into ma + 1-bar spc “before it was cool” because I spent so much time on my backbar. Uptimes were fine. I feel like olorime has more of a learning curve than spc does. But most of all, need DPS to know to touch it.

Well, yeah if we’re talking about DPS that know to stand in it then olorime isn’t that bad. But PuG DPS won’t stand in it.

"Radiating regeneration. Damage is not so high that radiating won’t proc SPC, especially if burst heals are going out when needed."

In an effort to not be obtuse, I'm willing to concede that it's possible to do it this way. However, I generally only use Radiating Regen in fights where I know the DPS are going to be spread out or there are mechanics that are going to keep DPS out of healing for a significant period of time, like the first fight in Scrivener's Hall or that Lich fight in Unhallowed Grave. Otherwise, I don't generally have this on my bar and treat it more like a flex/situational ability. If everyone is where they need to be, I think it's unnecessary.

"That said, when I was new I ran spc/jorvulds."

When not in an organized trial, I think this is still a great combination, especially on a Warden or an Arcanist who can provide a wide array of Major and Minor buffs that can benefit from the set and it really mitigates that short Major Courage buff from SPC. Jorvulds is another one that people seem to think isn't useful these days outside of a ROJO setup and I think that's a real shame.

"I feel like olorime has more of a learning curve than spc does."

Agreed, it definitely does.

Soarora

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

(Cut out everything I agree with.)
Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.
Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

As a pve healer, your own dmg is not that important. Or at least not to the point of sacrificing the group dmg that means to run a set like serpent disdain. Regardless, as a healer you'd rather run lightning staves than ice in most places. And being out of style doesn't mean ppl won't use it. Regardless, double ice with ele sus and ice wall gets it done anyway. Or colourless pool. All quite better options than SD. Still, SD doesn't buff brittle, but the status effect, chilled, which doesn't apply brittle if you're not on an ice staff, which will be the thing with resto staff, or not even at all if you're running backbar ice staff. So back to square one.

Oh yeah, no, I agree about serpent’s destain, I just think an argument can be made for a warden doing brittle (probably using frost reach or ele sus, but maybe with scribing). With how little healing is needed in a lot of dungeons, healers should be doing some damage because massive overhealing is a waste, but only after healing, buffs, and debuffs are fulfilled, so usually not by sacrificing a set. Lightning for off-balance is good, but I doubt PuGs are running exploiter and a lot of PuGs are HA sorcs anyways.

Kahnak wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Tried to run this with Warden having a Fledgling set + Troll monster + Serpent's Disdain, full healer build skills wise. I didn't expect much out of him cause I rarely take my warden for hard content.

I did my runs mostly on my barrier focused Templar; Mending Bond, Healing Contigency, all the classic healing stuff you'd expect from a Healer Templar + barriers/wards I could find.
Symphony of Blades + Transformative Hope.
Tarnished set for personal damage, crit chance for crit heals and AOE sunder.
Did lots of trials with this one, and veteran runs post Bedlam Veil release (can't recall which set I had before Tarnished; I always have one damage-oriented one).
Never had an issue.
Judging by how those runs went, even if I replaced Tarnished part of the build with Olorime, Blind Induction, or another support-oriented set, things wouldn't go much different.
I even got myself tankier; Magicka 50, Health 14, the Lord mundus stone, and robes have Divine traits.
Working with what I'm given, I already did as much as possible from my side.

Feedback on warden (using spoiler bc I understand it's not your char, and tbf, it's comfortable to read like this.

Serpent's Disdain may have their niche, but no group content and deffo not a healer. The only useful status effects that you can access as a healer are shock and ice, but not because of the status effects but the debuffs that get applied with them such as off-balance and brittle. Off balance has an independent CD and brittle requires an ice staff (also has other sources, and is usually given by tank), so kind of a waste too.

Olorime gives Major Courage, which is a really strong buff that's always needed, so it does make a difference, at least from the difference you can make. Blind Induction is kind of a waste too.

(Cut out everything I agree with.)

Brittle on a warden is good because warden has bonus to chilled damage. Also, nowadays frost clench is out of style so you can’t assume a tank will bring brittle.

Olorime is a really, really bad idea. Healers need to be wearing spell power cure. Major courage is a very important buff and PuGs will not stand in Olorime, trust me, I’ve tried using it. Ive seen other people try using it. People don’t stand in it.

"Olorime is a really, really bad idea."

No, it's not. Olirime can be as good or as bad as the person using it - just like Siroria, or any number of other sets. You don't have to stand in it to get the buff. You just have to tag players with the proc. SPC is strong only when there is regular overhealing, as the Major Courage buff only lasts for 5 seconds - that's 3 ability casts and two light attacks for the very best players already in position to do damage. If PUGS aren't standing in your healing AOE's, which is where Olirime would be proccing anyway, where is your overhealing coming from? Regen or Vigor? Not with regular damage going out. At least when Olirime sticks to a player it's a 20 second buff - 4x as long. Not only that, but the recovery lines and the 5% mitigation from Olirime are better stats for a healer. I don't think one is necessarily that much better than the other, but in the right hands both serve the same purpose and are fine to use. This idea that Olirime is now "a really, really bad idea" and that SPC is all of a sudden going to solve your PUG problems and should be worn at all times is silly and lacks any nuance whatsoever.

Olorime is a relatively small circle. PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage. I know you don’t need to actively stand in it but PuGs won’t go out of their way to step through it. There’s regular overhealing in most content and even when there isn’t (which I can only think of falg hm and vcr+3 executes) people run SPC anyways. Dungeons really don’t do that much damage aside from a few HMs here and there. That’s why most can be 3DPSed. SPC won’t magically fix everything, but it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it).

"Olorime is a relatively small circle."

Circle of Might is 7m, which is functionally as big as your Grand Healing AOE, which is not small.

"PuG DPS don’t have a tendency to stack in front of the healer, so I don’t imagine it’d have good uptimes with a healer trying to chase the DPS to force them one at a time to get major courage."

Okay, so in turn, how are you going to keep overhealing them to keep up SPC?

"There’s regular overhealing in most content"

In organized content, sure. But you're talking about pugging. In that case, it depends entirely on who is in the group and who is doing the healing. Overhealing doesn't just spawn out of the ground, and I know I'm not the only ESO player who has watched a healer heavy attack their way through the dungeon (that is if it isn't a fake healer). You're talking about a PUG healer who has to have the apm and the presence of mind to manage overhealing the group for good uptime. It's not that dissimilar from managing Minor Berserk uptime from Combat Prayer, and for someone who is not used to doing that, it could be a pretty big ask.

"it’s an important buff to the point that 3DPS tanks may wear olorime (since they can’t overheal and those DPS know to stand in it)"

Agreed, but when you've got DPS who know where to stand the difference between the two basically vanishes. In fact, for a mostly stationary fight I think Olirime is probably better because of the stat lines and the duration of the buff. The fact that the buff is 20 seconds, but can proc every 10 seconds creates a beneficial overlap/safety net that can contribute to uptime in the event that the healer has to rez or is the victim of a dungeon mechanic that pulls them away.

And again, I'm not trying to say that one is that much better than the other, I'm just saying that Olirime isn't the big stinky turd people are acting like it is.

I recall the circle being much smaller than illustrious, but to be fair I’ve only looked at it in content do maybe I’m seeing the size wrong.

Radiating regeneration. Damage is not so high that radiating won’t proc SPC, especially if burst heals are going out when needed.

I suppose I am thinking from the perspective of a healer who knows how to heal and not a PuG healer. That said, when I was new I ran spc/jorvulds. I later transitioned into ma + 1-bar spc “before it was cool” because I spent so much time on my backbar. Uptimes were fine. I feel like olorime has more of a learning curve than spc does. But most of all, need DPS to know to touch it.

Well, yeah if we’re talking about DPS that know to stand in it then olorime isn’t that bad. But PuG DPS won’t stand in it.

"Radiating regeneration. Damage is not so high that radiating won’t proc SPC, especially if burst heals are going out when needed."

In an effort to not be obtuse, I'm willing to concede that it's possible to do it this way. However, I generally only use Radiating Regen in fights where I know the DPS are going to be spread out or there are mechanics that are going to keep DPS out of healing for a significant period of time, like the first fight in Scrivener's Hall or that Lich fight in Unhallowed Grave. Otherwise, I don't generally have this on my bar and treat it more like a flex/situational ability. If everyone is where they need to be, I think it's unnecessary.

"That said, when I was new I ran spc/jorvulds."

When not in an organized trial, I think this is still a great combination, especially on a Warden or an Arcanist who can provide a wide array of Major and Minor buffs that can benefit from the set and it really mitigates that short Major Courage buff from SPC. Jorvulds is another one that people seem to think isn't useful these days outside of a ROJO setup and I think that's a real shame.

"I feel like olorime has more of a learning curve than spc does."

Agreed, it definitely does.

Technically, I know Vigor is better than radiating and like I said, most dungeons don’t need much healing, so I agree. I just use radiating because of people running around. That is, when I heal with a restro staff nowadays.

I do think jorvulds is great for a new healer still. I think I used it to try to extend SPC, but good for helping with buff juggling while learning how to heal. PA is better in the end but more to deal with.

Glad we could come to agree after all .

Diundriel

non hm is easy - think i did the no death 1st try with randoms and without reading mechs before. But HM is another story gotta make sure everyone knows mechs and brings some skill and dedication.
Just slot multiple barriers if you struggle with no death achievement

Valinor88

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Grand Healing: Sea Elf skill style is probably the only thing that would motivate me to do veteran dungeon challenges.
I mean, it fits me perfectly.
So, ever since the patch dropped, ive been trying to get it.
Sadly, with no success.

I did complete my fair share of veteran dungeons with randoms as a healer, with some achievments included, and it never felt like a Trial but with 4 person squad.
So far I've reached only Noriwen on Veteran, before the sqad fell apart cause clearly it's not good enough. Some of the runs fell apart at Garvin.

I'm still snorting copium like cocaine that this dungeon just dropped and it will take few weeks for people to figure everything out, and before I notice there will be min-maxing guides on how to complete it, which in turn it will feel like a breeze Bedlam Veil was.

But I'm not sure.
Am I taking crazy pills?

I made the HM of the two dungeons on the same day they came out, the first of them, exiled redoubt It was very easy to close, the mechanics and types of battle pleased us a lot, but then we went to Lep Seclusa, and hellfire fell on the group. The big difficulty was in the last boss, a fight in a very tight space, where survival and synchronized movement were more useful than damage itself. After 1 hour or so we managed to close the HM. And an important note about this is that the group we were was made up of 4 veteran members in this type of content. We found it difficult, but not impossible. I have a slight impression that a little more novice players may experience a much steeper degree of difficulty than they have seen so far.

In general, grade 9 for these new dungeons, I highly recommend anyone who can, do the HM