Why are people allowed to whisper others while being in offline mode?

RaikaNA · February 19

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Like the title of this thread is asking... When people go in offline mode.. it temporary blocks others from whispering to them, but the person who activates offline mode can freely whisper to other people. Why is that? It makes no sense for the person being in offline mode to be allowed to whisper to other people who can't respond to them.

DenverRalphy · February 19

I whisper people while I'm offline. Not regularly, but often enough. Granted it's usually to tell someone that I'm in game but offline.

The point of using Offline is so that you can play peacefully without being interrupted by other players (regardless how well meaning they may be). Sometimes there are some players important enough to you that you'd still want to communicate with if need be. Offline players can also speak in public channels while offline too. I don't see any inherent reason that simply being offline requires that you not be able send whispers. If someone is using offline to harrass or bug another player, that player can simply block them.

RaikaNA · February 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I whisper people while I'm offline. Not regularly, but often enough. Granted it's usually to tell someone that I'm in game but offline.

The point of using Offline is so that you can play peacefully without being interrupted by other players (regardless how well meaning they may be). Sometimes there are some players important enough to you that you'd still want to communicate with if need be. Offline players can also speak in public channels while offline too. I don't see any inherent reason that simply being offline requires that you not be able send whispers. If someone is using offline to harrass or bug another player, that player can simply block them.

I know the purpose of the feature, but if you wanna play peacefully without being interrupted then you shouldn't be whispering to people who can't whisper back to you. If I can't whisper to someone who decided to put themselves in offline mode back then whispering to people while being in offline mode should be blocked as well.

Morvan · February 19

Even if they change that, nothing will stop people from whispering to you and switching back to offline, it will just add more steps to it.

SaffronCitrusflower · February 19

Morvan wrote: »

Even if they change that, nothing will stop people from whispering to you and switching back to offline, it will just add more steps to it.

One more hoop to jump through, in this case, would be a good thing.

SxFurey · February 19

The offline mode tends to be misused by those cowardly to make them feel better about themselves. Don't let them get into you. Best case is to report and move on. Cos you know ZOS. They aren't gonna do a darn thing on the offline mode.

spartaxoxo · February 19

They should change it so that if you whisper to someone, that particular person can then whisper you back. I think it would cut down on the cowardly hate tells while also still allowing someone to pull someone important to the side to let them know you're offline.

For example, they don't want to interact with the guild but they don't mind talking briefly with their friend.

SxFurey · February 19

Morvan wrote: »

Even if they change that, nothing will stop people from whispering to you and switching back to offline, it will just add more steps to it.

Could use a cooldown after changing your status. Much like the cooldown from changing your champions perks.

ganzaeso · February 19

@ZOS_Kevin could you pass this along to the development team?

how about whispering someone automatically puts you into online mode.

if you are in offline mode and make the conscious decision to communicate to another player, you are obviously not playing offline anymore.

add a 1 minute cool down to switching back so that anyone you contacted has a chance to respond.

Duhne · February 19

At least remove the possibility to whisper while in offline mode in PvP.

It's where people misuse it the most !

DenverRalphy · February 19

RaikaNA wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I whisper people while I'm offline. Not regularly, but often enough. Granted it's usually to tell someone that I'm in game but offline.

The point of using Offline is so that you can play peacefully without being interrupted by other players (regardless how well meaning they may be). Sometimes there are some players important enough to you that you'd still want to communicate with if need be. Offline players can also speak in public channels while offline too. I don't see any inherent reason that simply being offline requires that you not be able send whispers. If someone is using offline to harrass or bug another player, that player can simply block them.

If I can't whisper to someone who decided to put themselves in offline mode back then whispering to people while being in offline mode should be blocked as well.

Why? Why shouldn't they be able to just because you can't reply back? There are valid reasons be being offline without having to be muted.

If it's just an innocent exchange and they expect a reply back, well then they'll just have to be disappointed until they realize why you didn't reply.

If it's someone intentionally bugging you to grief you, then all you have to do is block them. Done. No muss, no fuss. With the added benefit that you're free to take a screenshot and submit a report at your leisure should it warrant.

allochthons · February 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If it's someone intentionally bugging you to grief you, then all you have to do is block them. Done. No muss, no fuss. With the added benefit that you're free to take a screenshot and submit a report at your leisure should it warrant.

There is a limit to how many people you can block (100?). If you do some activities, you get a lot of hate whispers, even if you never do toxic things or insult people. The block list fills very quickly.

A friend recently stopped playing Tales of Tribute due to off-line hate whispers.

onyxorb · February 19

I Know a lot of GMs need to be in offline work just to get guild stuff done, they tend to whisper members to remind them of various guild related issues etc.

Also I know I tend to use offline mode a lot when I'm going to be mostly AFK in game because I'm handling RL stuff, but want to get in crafting dailies or fix a house or something. I'm in offline mode so people won't think I'm ignoring them when they send me 18 messages in a row and I don't respond.

However, even then, sometimes I might need to whisper someone to answer a question they had in zone or guild chat if I happen to look up and see something I can help with.

As for Hate whispers in PVP and ToT (this one always gets me), the easiest solution though is to just go offline when doing those activities and avoid it altogether.

Also, if someone wants to send an ingame message full of insults, or send me a hate whisper, I have zero issues with screenshotting the message and reporting it. I don't let it ruin my game, I just report it, block them, and move on.

Rogue_Coyote · February 19

ToT was a hate whisper from ZoS.

AzuraFan · February 19

When I was a newish player, I asked in guild chat if someone could craft me something. Someone messaged me about doing so. I needed to message him back, but it said something like he couldn't be reached - forget the exact message. I couldn't understand what was going on because he was still able to message me. I actually thought maybe I was being scammed. Later I learned that players who have set themselves offline can still whisper others.

Anyway, if you want to be "offline", you need to be offline, i.e. no communication with other players. Either that, or perhaps you can only whisper people in your guilds and on your friends list. Also, the "error" message you receive if you try to whisper someone who is online but "offline" needs to be made clear as to what is happening, so newish players don't get confused about what is going on.

allochthons · February 19

onyxorb wrote: »

As for Hate whispers in PVP and ToT (this one always gets me), the easiest solution though is to just go offline when doing those activities and avoid it altogether.

This ... never occurred to me for ToT. /facepalm. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll pass it on to my friend.

I'm still on the "if you're offline, you shouldn't be able to whisper" side of this argument. I agree there are legit cases for being able to off-line whisper, but I think it should be limited to guild mates and friends. That would cut down greatly on hate whispers.

We shouldn't have to do tricks like take ourselves offline during activities to avoid hate and harassment.

DenverRalphy · February 19

allochthons wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If it's someone intentionally bugging you to grief you, then all you have to do is block them. Done. No muss, no fuss. With the added benefit that you're free to take a screenshot and submit a report at your leisure should it warrant.

There is a limit to how many people you can block (100?). If you do some activities, you get a lot of hate whispers, even if you never do toxic things or insult people. The block list fills very quickly.

A friend recently stopped playing Tales of Tribute due to off-line hate whispers.

Participating in those activities is one of my aforementioned valid reasons for going offline. If you're going to jump into those activities knowing that it's full of toxic players, then go offline and save yourself the headache. After all, the players who send those hate whispers do.

Fischblut · February 19

I have few people in Friend list who asked me about doing various activities too much. They are good people, but such active gameplay always bothers me after some time. I used to remove people from Friend list due to this reason in the past, and I regret doing it. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a difficult group content, that's when I can be Online again

So nowadays, instead of removing someone, I just play in offline mode

It messes up some of my normal activities, but so far this is the only solution. Sometimes I whisper to someone from zone chat when answering a trade offer (or asking for an item in trial gear farming group) - but I always warn them that I'm in offline mode. In trial groups, this even requires extra effort from me, because when I link my items in group chat, I must also mention that I'm offline and that they need to ask for items in group chat as well

Yesterday I had unexpected good duel in IC after many years - and sadly, we couldn't even start a conversation since I was in offline mode. So instead of making a new special bond, I released and went to other district.

I support a suggestion that other person needs to be able to reply if I whisper them, even when I'm in offline mode. If I couldn't whisper someone while Offline, I would have to remove good people from Friend list again.

Solariken · February 19

Agree with OP, setting status to offline should prevent sending whispers.

Zerodeeps · February 19

I have a friend who likes to play in Offline mode and it's the most annoying thing in the world. If we're in a dungeon group and I want to whisper them something not meant for the group to hear, I can't do it. I get that "you" might want to be offline for various reasons but, without you being censored, you're essentially censoring the rest of the world. Even little things, like communicating "I'll be right back on this toon" or "meet me here", are impossible. For the friend. It's not only about separating you from haters and trolls.

I like the idea of people in your guilds or friend's list still being able to whisper you. Or even a list of people who can still contact, see when you're online, etc, when in "offline" mode. More tools for this playstyle that help others want to play with them without going completely insane!

Juomuuri · February 19

I find it annoying whenever I happen to get whispers while questing, but I just say "sorry, I'm questing now" and then I don't have to do the activity I was asked to do. You can't tell when someone's questing - but you can tell when someone is busy when you see they are in a dungeon, or in PvP, trial etc. WHO is so rude that they just spam whispers when someone is clearly not available?? I can see people confusing the BG maps as PvE area names (has happened to me), but I don't mind at all if my whisper of just saying hello is being ignored due to PvP, lol.

Personally, I would like the "busy" (red) status to be reworked into actually being the status for busy people, where you'd be unable to whisper or receive whispers. Or, ZOS could add a toggle for opting in and out of receiving and sending whispers, which one could use at their leisure whenever they don't want hate whispers or they just wanna quest etc. They could even add different categories, like "no whispers from anyone", "whispers from guild/friends/group members only" etc.

spartaxoxo · February 19

allochthons wrote: »

onyxorb wrote: »

As for Hate whispers in PVP and ToT (this one always gets me), the easiest solution though is to just go offline when doing those activities and avoid it altogether.

This ... never occurred to me for ToT. /facepalm. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll pass it on to my friend.

I'm still on the "if you're offline, you shouldn't be able to whisper" side of this argument. I agree there are legit cases for being able to off-line whisper, but I think it should be limited to guild mates and friends. That would cut down greatly on hate whispers.

We shouldn't have to do tricks like take ourselves offline during activities to avoid hate and harassment.

What if I'm offline because I'm doing those activities and don't want to deal with hate? This doesn't mean I don't want to interact with my guild. Or buy something from zone chat. No communication if you're offline punishes for people for avoiding harassment.

Instead anyone you whisper should be able to whisper you back. That eliminates the ability to abuse it without punishing legitimate use cases.

Desiato · February 19

Morvan wrote: »

Even if they change that, nothing will stop people from whispering to you and switching back to offline, it will just add more steps to it.

Exactly this. It would have no practical impact on receiving messages that can't be responded to.

In those moments, the players that send messages like the OP describes won't be stopped by an extra step as they are highly motivated to express themselves -- to the point they have difficulties stopping themselves. IMO, the thing most of these players have in common is a lack of impulse control.

TybaltKaine · February 19

I just turn off whispers in my chat when I don't want to be bothered. Offline, online, doesn't matter. Only people I want to communicate with are usually in Discord anyway.

valenwood_vegan · February 19

If someone were to ever send me a hate whisper or similar, I'd ignore it, block, report if warranted, and go right on with my life.

This whole idea that they need to develop a system to ensure that one is always allowed to get a response in feels very juvenile. And then if you respond with a snarky whisper of your own, is the initiating person not allowed to respond to your response? Where does it end? And then what if they block you or log out of the game entirely so that you can't respond? Does zos need to develop an additional special "hate whisper response" messaging system for these circumstances too? People who wanna be toxic are always gonna find ways to do so - the best thing to do is block them and move on.

So as for the topic at hand, I'd be all for something simple like not allowing whispers while in offline mode. And I mean "if you whisper someone, they can whisper you back" makes a lot of sense to me, but on the other hand it's more complex and something the server now has to track. I think the more complex it gets, the less likely we are to see a change implemented in the near term.

A more extensive rework of the chat system and chat window to add more features and more status options to account for a wider variety of communication preferences would be a good thing, but that probably isn't going to happen quickly.

spartaxoxo · February 19

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

This whole idea that they need to develop a system to ensure that one is always allowed to get a response in feels very juvenile. And then if you respond with a snarky whisper of your own, is the initiating person not allowed to respond to your response? Where does it end?

You're required to attempt to ask them to stop before being able to report them for stuff like tea bagging. So, people will go offline to avoid simple requests.

Beyond that, sometimes the person you're talking to simply doesn't remember they're offline. So, it's not only abuse as a use case.

SilverBride · February 19

If a player is in offline mode are we still able to send them mail? If so then just reply to their whispers with a mail. Pretty soon their mailbox will fill up and maybe they will stop.

Soarora · February 19

Juomuuri wrote: »

I find it annoying whenever I happen to get whispers while questing, but I just say "sorry, I'm questing now" and then I don't have to do the activity I was asked to do. You can't tell when someone's questing - but you can tell when someone is busy when you see they are in a dungeon, or in PvP, trial etc. WHO is so rude that they just spam whispers when someone is clearly not available?? I can see people confusing the BG maps as PvE area names (has happened to me), but I don't mind at all if my whisper of just saying hello is being ignored due to PvP, lol.

Personally, I would like the "busy" (red) status to be reworked into actually being the status for busy people, where you'd be unable to whisper or receive whispers. Or, ZOS could add a toggle for opting in and out of receiving and sending whispers, which one could use at their leisure whenever they don't want hate whispers or they just wanna quest etc. They could even add different categories, like "no whispers from anyone", "whispers from guild/friends/group members only" etc.

I do wish the busy status was reworked, people still ask me to do things with it on. I’ve considered porting into content to see if that helps. Unfortunately, I don’t do very well with enforcing that I’m busy and accept half the time. I have busy as “I’m open to chatting but not doing content” in my mind, so I guess would need to warn people or have it so you can choose who can message you when you’re set as busy.

RaikaNA · February 20

SxFurey wrote: »

The offline mode tends to be misused by those cowardly to make them feel better about themselves. Don't let them get into you. Best case is to report and move on. Cos you know ZOS. They aren't gonna do a darn thing on the offline mode.

Yeah, this happens all the time in PvP. It makes zero sense for someone in offline mode to be able to send whispers to people who can't whisper back at them.

MreeBiPolar · February 20

Juomuuri wrote: »

Personally, I would like the "busy" (red) status to be reworked into actually being the status for busy people, where you'd be unable to whisper or receive whispers. Or, ZOS could add a toggle for opting in and out of receiving and sending whispers, which one could use at their leisure whenever they don't want hate whispers or they just wanna quest etc. They could even add different categories, like "no whispers from anyone", "whispers from guild/friends/group members only" etc.

THAT

SilverBride · February 20

I never use any of these modes. If I'm running the IA or a dungeon and someone whispers me, I just tell them that I am busy and may not reply to their whispers right away. And if I just want to quest, or decorate my house for instance, and someone asks me to group for something I just say that I'm doing this right now and maybe we can group later.

I really don't understand why some find it hard to just say no to something they aren't in the mood for at the moment.