Does anyone else feel like ZOS doesn't care about their players and what the community asks for

aliferis

I've Been playing this game since release with a few breaks here and there and i see all these posts, discords, guilds, and other forums about what would make the game better, things the community want to see happen, and items added to the store with the most being (A RADIANT APEX GUAR!!!!!!!!!!!). I love this game and want to see it succeed but ZOS you need to start listening to your community.

aliferis

Also, can we get an increase in the amount of furnishing we can have in each type of house

Desiato

Yes, of course, lots of people feel this way. It doesn't make it true.

I watched for years as ZOS changed the game I enjoyed more the first couple of years to a much more successful and popular game by adapting to popular feedback.

So they weren't responsive to me and my friends, but the plain reality is they have been extremely responsive to feedback overall.

ESO has an incredibly diverse audience of all ages from all walks of life. They'll never be able to please us all.

Soarora

ZOS listens sometimes, and sometimes listens wrong… like people saying to nerf polar wind in PvP and ZOS instead nerfing arctic blast haha.

Destai

I absolutely think they care.

In terms of listening, I think they try, at times. Other times, I think they do what they think is best. When they do listen and change their approach, it seems like it takes longer than many would like. I think they could be better about reversing course during PTS before something becomes an issue. Regardless, there are many things I see in game that are a direct result of player feedback. Whether I, or anyone else, actually likes the implementation of said feedback, varies.

BixenteN7Akantor

What the community wants, what ZOS want to do and what they have the capacity to make (without sending devs into Crunch-land) are different things:
-Scribing: Community wanted it, ZOS was interrested and did it
-Radian Apex Guar: Community wants, ZOS doesn't want but can do
-More furnishing spaces: Community wants, ZOS wants too but can't (most obvious reasons are older consoles)
-Balancing old sets: Community wants, ZOS maybe wants but ZOS can do.
-Balancing invisibility: Community is splitted, ZOS tries to but eh... *scratches head*
-Out of Combat bug: Community wants, ZOS probably wants but ZOS has trouble to
-Overhaulted BG: Community wanted BG to be relevant again, ZOS did nothing for years but finally did it... but not what we expected.
-Overhauled Cyrodiil: Community WANTS, ZOS probably wants but ZOS has big trouble with this.
-Improve Imperial City: Community wants, ZOS was okay with and did some good things.
-Dungeon Rushers: Community wanted "Joining Encounter in Progress" for old dungeons, ZOS took some time but did it.
-Undaunted pledge keys logic: Community wanted more keys for DLC dungeons, ZOS was okay with and did it.
-Undaunted base game pledges fix: Community wants, ZOS maybe wants but ZOS can do
-Cadaverous Bear and Cernunnon fix: Community wants, ZOS wants but ZOS has trouble to do.
-Overland difficulty: Community WANTS, ZOS wants and ZOS will do.
-Lag fix: Community WANTS, ZOS WANTS but ZOS has trouble to, so in the meantime we have bandages (lower pop cap in cyrodiil for example).
-Antiquity leads too hard to farm: Community WANTS, ZOS doesn't want but ZOS can do. (They even fix bugged ones)
-Random bans: Community wants a full stop to bans without reports (such as conversation with a buddy with a slang language), ZOS wants to find a middle ground but players still get randomly banned.
-FOMO: Community wants a full stop to this, ZOS doesn't want but ZOS can do.

See, the truth is, ZOS aren't fondamentaly different from us and mostly agrees with us but time and workforce aren't infinite, managing them is tough to do. Almost everything not done in this list would require at least 3-4 months to do ALONE. Time to create stuff is vastly underestimated, especially with bugs that are like hydras, you fix one and two more appear.
I really don't like some things ZOS do, especially with FOMO but as long as I'm having fun with the game, we're on the same boat.

MidniteOwl1913

Keep in mind it's a business, not a charity. They are entitled to make money, and that's okay. Sometimes that will drive decisions and again that's okay.

Also the forums are only a tiny fraction of players. Do I think that sometimes they seem like none of them even play the game? Yes, but sometimes they give me things I didn't know I wanted like ToT.

For me personally the poor communication is the worst thing.

The_Meathead

I feel like a certain disconnect either set in or grew around U35, to be honest.

There were a number of bad decisions made with that Patch that caused a huge player outcry with zero real response. While we were promised a big Q&A session to go over what had been done, it never came to pass. That was pretty deflating.

So, if that's what you mean? Yeah, I feel that too, and my faith in ZOS has definitely dwindled because of U35 and much of what's followed. We were definitely ignored when it came to things like the Jabs and Flurry animation changes, for example, and I've yet to feel that course truly righted.

Now if you mean ZOS should respond to every Forum Joe who starts a "I WANT FLYING MOUNTS!!!" or "NAVAL BATTLES, WHEN?!" thread...? No, not even a little. Nor do they need to respond to every post that's upset about a nerf, provided there's been adequate communication in the PTS and Patch Notes to state their reasoning.

I do truly wish they'd listen and interact more with their PTS players, especially. There are some bright folks who take part in testing and put out some hard data that really ought to see more impact in things. So often, things that are nerfed or altered after months or even years of being problematic on the live servers could have been changed while still on PTS, but all the calls for action have fallen on deaf ears. Not great.

AcadianPaladin

I absolutely think ZoS cares about their players and listens to feedback. The problem is, as mentioned a couple times above, there is little agreement among the player base. The diversity of views about what the game should focus on rivals the number of players.

I’ll use myself as an example with a list of what I want that I know not everyone agrees with:
-I love account wide achievements – many do not.
-I love that ESO is solo friendly – many tell me to go play Skyrim if I want to solo.
-Many think overland is too easy – I don’t want heavy fights when trying to pick flowers, travel and enjoy the scenery. If I want hard fights, I know where to find them. I think overland difficulty is just fine.
-I dislike PvP – many like it.
-I long for upgrading and revitalizing the original zones regarding expanding questlines and graphics. I prefer the original zones over the newer ones. Many want a constant influx of new zones.
-I love the companion system and would like to see it expanded with better AI and options. Many do not care for companions.
-I hate the move toward more neon/cartoonish exploding graphics – particularly when it comes to mounts. Others feel the flashier the better.

That all said, I believe there are areas where forum threads have generally shown little or no disagreement and I’d love to see ZoS focus on or at least give their thoughts on those ideas that no one objects to. Such as:
-Let mounts swim
-Keep the push going to improve game stability and limit lag/crashes.
-Fix the diaperbutt on the Timbercrow Wanderer Costume.
-Improve companion AI with ranged weapons so they less frequently reset bosses with their dodge rolling. Right now, only the ice staff avoids this problem.
-Address getting rid of hip/butt/crotch flappers on light armor. If a retrofix or moving such waist accoutrements to belts is not possible, at least stop adding them to future light armor styles.

Kyip

I think they do care about their players, judging from Twitch videos, some forum mod replies, and other things.

That said, I also think some of their responses can feel like they are rubbing salt in open wounds. Case in point, Grim Focus Permaglow, which now has 45 pages of people asking them to fix the problem they introduced last year when they changed the skill. This isn't a complaint about the forum moderators, it is a complaint about the developers who broke it, refuse to fix it, and refuse to even acknowledge they broke it, which feels very much like gaslighting us when they insist it is working as intended.

Vonnegut2506

Ya, the Grim Focus one is a weird one. It seems so simple to just fix it back to how it was or make it a toggle. Maybe we just never understood that the Grim Focus skill is the keystone for all of the graphics code in the game and changing it will destroy everything. I feel the same way about the Jabs and Flurry animation change. It is fairly hated, would be an easy reversion, but ZOS had decided to dig in their heels for some inexplicable reason.

SeaGtGruff

No, I don't get that feeling at all. Rather, I get the feeling that ZOS cares about their playerbase, listens to their feedback and requests, and tries to accomodate at least some of those requests as they deem appropriate. They cannot act on all requests, especially since some requests conflict with each other due to different portions of the playerbase disagreeing with each other about what they would like to see added, changed, or removed. They are also going to make any additions, changes, or removals in whatever way they deem best, which is probably not going to be exactly the way that the players had hoped.

Tandor

The timing of this thread is bizarre, coming immediately after a major announcement of a fair number of changes coming next year, almost all of which were clear responses to community feedback.

fizzylu

Kinda yes and no.

oldbobdude

There are way too many differences of opinion amongst the player population. ZOS is between a rock and a hard place. Players should let them do their thing and either accept it or not since they can’t please everybody.

SaffronCitrusflower

Tandor wrote: »

The timing of this thread is bizarre, coming immediately after a major announcement of a fair number of changes coming next year, almost all of which were clear responses to community feedback.

ZOS has become famous for making announcements they fail to follow through on and being highly selective to what feedback they listen to. From 2018-2023 ZOS said they were working on improving Cyrodiil performance. How has that panned out? Nary a mention of that now days with no results other than radically lowering the population cap. What about all the outcry/feedback about jabs animation being so lore breaking and a cheesy night hollow staff that twists around the waist instead of jabbing? The list of major bug fixes that has yet to happen is growing, not shrinking.

After a while people stop listening to what is said and make their evaluations on what is done, as they should.

Vonnegut2506

The developer letter each year is like the President's State of the Union address. They pat themselves on the back, say what they would like to get done the upcoming year, and then promptly forget about what they said while people can either take heart of feel dread about the same message.

valenwood_vegan

Meh.

Ask 10 players, get 20 opinions.

I mean they don't always make the best decisions, or implement them in the best way, in my opinion, but also nothing they do will ever please everyone on these forums.

StihlReign

Desiato wrote: »

Yes, of course, lots of people feel this way. It doesn't make it true.

I watched for years as ZOS changed the game I enjoyed more the first couple of years to a much more successful and popular game by adapting to popular feedback.

So they weren't responsive to me and my friends, but the plain reality is they have been extremely responsive to feedback overall.

I've watched as well, and they have NOT been extremely responsive to feedback.

Not ever. This is Reality.

HatchetHaro

Get in line my friend. This has been the reality since launch.

sleepy_worm

The devs clearly care. They are shackled by budget and very occasionally mismanagement. I know the game makes tons of money, but that doesn't mean they're not shackled by budget. Never underestimate greed.

dk_dunkirk

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

What the community wants, what ZOS want to do and what they have the capacity to make (without sending devs into Crunch-land) are different things:
-Scribing: Community wanted it, ZOS was interrested and did it
-Radian Apex Guar: Community wants, ZOS doesn't want but can do
-More furnishing spaces: Community wants, ZOS wants too but can't (most obvious reasons are older consoles)
-Balancing old sets: Community wants, ZOS maybe wants but ZOS can do.
-Balancing invisibility: Community is splitted, ZOS tries to but eh... *scratches head*
-Out of Combat bug: Community wants, ZOS probably wants but ZOS has trouble to
-Overhaulted BG: Community wanted BG to be relevant again, ZOS did nothing for years but finally did it... but not what we expected.
-Overhauled Cyrodiil: Community WANTS, ZOS probably wants but ZOS has big trouble with this.
-Improve Imperial City: Community wants, ZOS was okay with and did some good things.
-Dungeon Rushers: Community wanted "Joining Encounter in Progress" for old dungeons, ZOS took some time but did it.
-Undaunted pledge keys logic: Community wanted more keys for DLC dungeons, ZOS was okay with and did it.
-Undaunted base game pledges fix: Community wants, ZOS maybe wants but ZOS can do
-Cadaverous Bear and Cernunnon fix: Community wants, ZOS wants but ZOS has trouble to do.
-Overland difficulty: Community WANTS, ZOS wants and ZOS will do.
-Lag fix: Community WANTS, ZOS WANTS but ZOS has trouble to, so in the meantime we have bandages (lower pop cap in cyrodiil for example).
-Antiquity leads too hard to farm: Community WANTS, ZOS doesn't want but ZOS can do. (They even fix bugged ones)
-Random bans: Community wants a full stop to bans without reports (such as conversation with a buddy with a slang language), ZOS wants to find a middle ground but players still get randomly banned.
-FOMO: Community wants a full stop to this, ZOS doesn't want but ZOS can do.

See, the truth is, ZOS aren't fondamentaly different from us and mostly agrees with us but time and workforce aren't infinite, managing them is tough to do. Almost everything not done in this list would require at least 3-4 months to do ALONE. Time to create stuff is vastly underestimated, especially with bugs that are like hydras, you fix one and two more appear.
I really don't like some things ZOS do, especially with FOMO but as long as I'm having fun with the game, we're on the same boat.

Flappy bird? Grim focus permaglow? Excessive, predatory, non-neurotypical-abusing monetization? Hiding achievements and collectibles behind unrelated parts of the game? There are many issues that they are not being responsive to, and I think we've got our answer on them. It's "no."

You're right about many of these issues taking a long time to implement. On the other hand, Cyrodill issues have persisted for years. How long should we give them before we admit defeat, and stop asking?

However, the "lag fix" problem stands out as quite a bit different.

This is happening in Fallout 76 as well. There are constant crashes and disconnects in that game too. I play that one on PS5, and a crash a couple of days ago crashed the whole console! Like, I had to hit the power button to restart it, and then wait for it to repair the drives. The stability problems on PS5 have been really bad since the spring as well, almost like maybe there's something that happened between both ZOS and Bethesda's hosting that has affected both games...

I've been a full-stack programmer for 30 years. If these were my games, I would stop everything else until I fixed this. In fact, I just discovered a problem with my main application at my company, and I've stopped all other development to track it down for two weeks now. Is it hard? Yes. Does it make any sense? No. Do I understand the root cause? Not yet. But I'm going to at least fix the issues it caused, and implement safeguards to make sure it doesn't happen again, and make the turnaround tighter next time, so I CAN figure out the root cause. I cannot wrap my head around why ZOS won't take this sort of approach to the performance issues. (I mean, I *can*, I just really don't like the answers.)

This isn't some feature that would have both fans and foes with the manner in which it's implemented. This is a problem that's affecting EVERYONE. Even if YOU don't have any problems, the problem is widespread enough that you're probably in a dungeon or trial with people DO have the problem, and then you're waiting on them to reconnect, or suffering their missed attacks and heals because of lag, and having to restart a fight because of a needless wipe.

You can't just lump this particular problem into a list with a bunch of others as "nice to haves." This is a difference in kind, not degree. And the fact that ZOS is even TALKING about anything else until it's fixed really irritates me.

BlueRaven

What I am about to say is not a conspiracy theory but is simply how I feel as a consumer. I am not saying it is happening, but it’s how I feel.

Zos is working on other unspecified game(s). This I think was announced by themselves already. As a consumer, it feels like ESO has turned into a distraction to them. They put in effort in the crown store, and they put a token effort into the game itself. But it FEELS LIKE there is hardly anyone still working on the game.

In the seventies I remember watching this juggler routine where they would spin plates on long sticks. They would get a few going then dart back and forth between them, maintaining their spin.
And that is what ESO feels like now, a spinning plate, only given attention when it starts to lose power and wobble.

I know they care about the game, but it does not feel like there is anyone at Zos whose 100% attention is actually dedicated to it.

This is not something new, it has felt like this for awhile, the race changes (for example) felt rushed and not very well thought out. The wood elf changes were appalling bad in its in game application and in how they fit in the lore. As if the change was an 11th hour afterthought. Even then, I thought to myself ‘Is there no one there who actually has the time to care about this?’
It’s just now feels like it is becoming more and more evident.

That is why I dropped my eso+ subscription recently. “Bite sized” content? It just feels like they cannot be bothered anymore.

Syldras

BlueRaven wrote: »

“Bite sized” content?

I think the wording is very unfortunate, especially if we don't know what to expect. "Bite-sized" sounds like it's something very minor that's played through within one evening. And even if there would be 1 or 2 of such releases per month, that wouldn't keep one busy for long.

But then it also sounds like they still plan to release a new (smaller) map at times or a new system. So who knows.

sleepy_worm

I don't think it's conspiracy to talk about the new IP. I may be straying into conspiracy territory, but I think it's been clear that ESO has been understaffed for years. It happens a lot in this industry, though, and I'm looking at it from a fellow overworked underpaid drone perspective. I work too hard with never enough resources, myself. so I can't get mad.

It may be a mistake to hide this brain drain from us consumers, but it may be for the best. After all, the game is a very good one even if certain devs have been reallocated. Consumers may not benefit from knowing the ins and outs of the budgeting, despite it feeling condescending to be lied to on this end.

It's clear by now that the year-end letter didn't land as they had hoped. In a couple weeks, we will see how they address the mess. I'm personally hoping for a hard lean into honesty, but I understand if they just can't go that way. I only hope they're not gambling too much on the new MMO. They have an established and loved IP with a (sometimes obscene) cash shop that has not been rejected by the userbase. This is your golden egg, ZOS. Don't take it for granted.

Zodiarkslayer

I think the big issue is to get a clear picture of "what the community wants".
I mean, let's be honest here. There are so many opinions on ESO that just collecting them is a mountain of work. Analysing, structuring and converting them into a presentable format is at least the same amount of work on top of that.
And what you get 90% of the time is just whining about personal preference and individual inconvenience.

When I was younger I used to work in marketing and let me tell you: almost nothing on the forums comes close to what we internally called "actionable feedback".
Most of the posts here are "Twitter style" opinions. Short and provocative. It's perfectly fine to post like that. Thats not my point. It is that the expectation that ZOS can improve anything, when all they get is opinionated ranting, is ludicrous.

Only a handfull of guys make the effort to present feedback in an appropriately detailed and properly contextualized manner.
@ESO_Nightingale comes to my mind with his posts on Frost Warden pain points.
He DID have an impact. That much is obvious.

TaSheen

I approach TES games the way I've approached every game I've ever played, clear back to the SSI Gold Box games set in Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms:

If it's fun, I'll play it until I've "beaten" it (in the case of single player titles). If it's not fun, I'll quit the game as soon as I've realized that's where I'm at with it.

In the case of MMOs, that's exactly what happened with WoW and RIFT - the devs were moving in directions I didn't like and didn't think I'd have fun with, so I quit them both and haven't been back since (almost a decade now). I might be running up on that situation with ESO; time alone will tell. But the one thing I do NOT do is expect the game devs to cater to me specifically; yes, I have stated my likes and distresses with the game, but I don't really intend those to be ultimatums. The devs CANNOT make this game specifically for me; so when the number of things I dislike outweighs the number of things I love, I'll go back to Skyrim and Oblivion, with a nod and a thank you for all the fun I had in ESO.

peacenote

I 100% feel that ZOS (or various people employed by ZOS as that's kind of a wide designation for the sentiment either way) do care about feedback and the community.

The success of the execution when they try to apply the feedback, and the quality of the two-way communication when gathering feedback, varies widely. I suspect this is due to many different reasons, including different areas not talking to each other, limited resources, skill sets, timing, profit goals, personnel turnover, and strategy changes, as is the case with almost any business/company/entity... especially larger ones.

LunaFlora

no, because they do clearly listen to feedback.

that doesn't mean they do every single thing people ask for or that they do it immediately, some things take a while to develop.

The retrospective letter mentions several things people have been requesting for years like Cyrodiil updates and base game visual updates.
And we just got an update for Battlegrounds and Scribing (spell crafting) a few months before.

aliferis wrote: »

Also, can we get an increase in the amount of furnishing we can have in each type of house

unlikely to happen anytime soon as the limits are the way they are so old PCs and last gen consoles can still go in houses.

PC minimum requirements only got increaed to be mostly equal to PS4/XBOX1 this year with update 41.
And if i remember correctly PC minimum requirements were the same for 10 years, though Windows 10 will stop receiving updates in 2025 so the requirements could be increased within a few years.
My guess would be when there's a new console generation, 2026 or 2027 probably, as PS4/XBOX1 would likely stop getting updates then as well.

Veinblood1965

I think they care a lot. They can't do everything we request but there have been major improvements to the game over the years, tons and tons. I think the only thing I really don't care for is the skill changes to core class skills. Some of them are horrible and some good but nothing worse that getting a play style down and then it's worthless. Other than that I'm quite happy with things.

Skeevers should be buffed however. We do need a massive skeever boss.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Kyip wrote: »

I think they do care about their players, judging from Twitch videos, some forum mod replies, and other things.

That said, I also think some of their responses can feel like they are rubbing salt in open wounds. Case in point, Grim Focus Permaglow, which now has 45 pages of people asking them to fix the problem they introduced last year when they changed the skill. This isn't a complaint about the forum moderators, it is a complaint about the developers who broke it, refuse to fix it, and refuse to even acknowledge they broke it, which feels very much like gaslighting us when they insist it is working as intended.

Or how the community has for years announced their dislike for all the ridiculous hip and crotch flaps put on almost every motif and style. Which has never been brought up by them and they still add a lot of styles with them that ruins the look of many.