vDSR - absolutely horrid runs (update: it gets better)

CoronHR

just horrid. maybe 3-4 players use domes. everyone else is scared or just doesn't. all 12 players need to know domes, and reefs, and bridges. and all the other mechs. sheesh. pug life really bad with this trial.

(update: that might have just been for the 1st couple of days, when players were joining who didn't know what to do, even though they had achieves)

Rkindaleft

This is one of the trials you just don't pug or use group finder for. Even more so now when you have a lot of casual/new players trying to run it for the event.

tsaescishoeshiner

That's rough. In my experience, groups that don't explain mechanics spend longer wiping and restarting over and over than the 1-2 minutes it would take to explain something and designate people to do certain roles. And of course, backups for when the the designated people inevitably stand in red lol.

sarahthes

DSR is a trial where only about 1 gf group out of 10 actually clears on vet.

CoronHR

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

That's rough. In my experience, groups that don't explain mechanics spend longer wiping and restarting over and over than the 1-2 minutes it would take to explain something and designate people to do certain roles. And of course, backups for when the the designated people inevitably stand in red lol.

in some trials you can explain things, but this one is complicated. i actually have to use an addon to do it, and i don't use addons for any other trial. i understand it's difficult, but players really have to know what they're doing before they get there. explaining it on the spot in this trial doesn't work. it takes experience, at least that's how i feel. vCR is a bit like that too

CoronHR

sarahthes wrote: »

DSR is a trial where only about 1 gf group out of 10 actually clears on vet.

i did yesterday, at group 5. today, probably same # of groups but i gave up. didn't make it past 1st boss

sarahthes

CoronHR wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

DSR is a trial where only about 1 gf group out of 10 actually clears on vet.

i did yesterday, at group 5. today, probably same # of groups but i gave up. didn't make it past 1st boss

Yep. Sounds about right. Even in discord groups in comms, if the people are super casual and don't have good raid awareness they will fail to clear first boss.

Meanwhile throw a bunch of endgamers in there and they will clear the whole trial 3x in an hour. Skill gap is big and magnified by mechanics heavy raids like DSR.

DenverRalphy

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

That's rough. In my experience, groups that don't explain mechanics spend longer wiping and restarting over and over than the 1-2 minutes it would take to explain something and designate people to do certain roles. And of course, backups for when the the designated people inevitably stand in red lol.

You can't explain vDSR mechanics to a pug group in anywhere near 1-2 minutes for each encounter. And that's even if all players have adequate Trial experience.

Soarora

I love DSR for its mechanical difficulty... but yeah, it's not going to work well with PuGs. Even normal can be questionable sometimes.

RaikaNA

I love this trial, but trials like this should not be in the group finder, especially when the game does not have voice capabilities.

Parasaurolophus

@CoronHR I fully confirm your words. I have some unclosed items in the sticker book and I thought it would be nice to get them with a 2x drop. The second day and the impressions are the most terrible, especially after this same fall I went through vLC several times in an evening.

IncultaWolf

I've cleared it twice this event with all pugs in group finder. But yes the majority of groups don't get past the first boss.

Blood_again

I GF-pugged vDSR 4 times for two days. Well, there were some issues, but nothing critical. All 4 were successfull despite some stupid wipes.
It was way better than vDSR before the event. That time first boss was filtering the newcomers quite well
It was better than vLC this september. Pugs struggled badly with mirrors.
Maybe I was just lucky whis week?

As I can see, the most problematic boss for pugging vDSR is the last one. The first one makes only pre-diagnosis
Every player should clearly keep the position, jump into the water, run the whole round and focus the proper target. It is a lot.

Funny moment. One of the group today had a DD, who totally ignored the swimming on last. Just casted a shield.
When he was told about it, he answered with no doubts: "But I didn't die"
We've beaten the boss next pull after this DD was kicked.

sshogrin

The worst part is you can put in the GF about posting a clear and knowing mechs, but it seems like most people that have the clear were carried because they sure don't know the mechs.

I've gotten 1 complete since the even started, the other 3 failed miserably...

HatchetHaro

oh nooooooo, gotta do mechanics.

join a raiding guild or discord server.

code65536

HatchetHaro wrote: »

oh nooooooo, gotta do mechanics.

join a raiding guild or discord server.

Meh. It's nice to be able to go, "I got some time free right now, let's do a vet trial!"

Joining a guild/discord for organized runs means hoping someone posts a run at a time that works for you, that you were able to sign up for it before it fills. And now you've got a commitment on your hands, and oh, yea, this usually isn't something that you can do right now because you feel like it, but at some scheduled time in the future.

This whole "join a guild/discord" thing just isn't something that works for a lot of people, esp. for people who just want to jump in and play when they have a chance instead of having things all scheduled out like a job.

And the new Group Finder has been really good at facilitating this kind of gameplay. I grabbed a small handful of people that I know who were online on EU, created a Group Finder listing, and in just a few minutes, we had a full group. It's great. Yea, I also have scheduled guild runs on NA but there's something to be said about being able to run things spontaneously and not have it be scheduled.

During the Gold Road event, the majority of the vLC runs that I did on EU were pugged via Group Finder, and we're looking at 35-50 minutes per run most of the time. In contrast, the DSR runs EU during this event, even though we cleared, have been considerably more painful and time-consuming--the most recent one was just shy of 2 hours, despite having a larger number of friends who are pugging with me (I only had one or two for the LC ones), and all of Group Finder runs on NA that I tried couldn't even get past twins (PUG quality on NA is unfortunately worse than EU, so this wasn't too surprising).

And, yea, I think that's a problem. Because regular vet non-HM should be more accessible for these kinds of runs. And DSR is definitely an outlier compared to the trials that came before and after.

Orbital78

I pugged two runs today, they def take 2 to 3 times as long but it's nice to get a group when you want. DSR is one I wouldn't normally think of pugging but the event is enticing.

moderatelyfatman

It sounds a lot like the story a tank told me when he pugged vRG (Bahsei) during the Oakensorc meta: the party didn't do mechanics but was too tanky (with bird heals to boot) to wipe. So eventually about 20 minutes later they were able to kill Bahsei!

Bottom line: we have a majority population now that is used to brute forcing their way through the mechanics with pure dps.

katanagirl1

Ugh, I am trying to get up the nerve to try a ndsr group finder run now that I don’t have a trials group. I would like to do it but will probably talk myself out of it. We were progging it on vet but months of getting almost through the twins fight and then having it fall apart was soul-wrenching.

Renato90085

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Ugh, I am trying to get up the nerve to try a ndsr group finder run now that I don’t have a trials group. I would like to do it but will probably talk myself out of it. We were progging it on vet but months of getting almost through the twins fight and then having it fall apart was soul-wrenching.

ndsr not have any wipe mech and can solo tank

sarahthes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Ugh, I am trying to get up the nerve to try a ndsr group finder run now that I don’t have a trials group. I would like to do it but will probably talk myself out of it. We were progging it on vet but months of getting almost through the twins fight and then having it fall apart was soul-wrenching.

nDSR is not in the same ballpark as vet. You will be fine

Major_Mangle

Ye I tend to agree. The amount of people who go into radio silence whenever you ask "Who´s on interrupt?" is ridiculous. I once hosted a vet run and it came to a point where I had to forcefully assigned DD´s to interrupt positions, a few seconds later they left the run. No communication, no asking what to do, nothing. I´m seeing more and more of this behavior in vet PvE as of lately and it´s infuriating.

During these kind of events, don´t join Pug vDSR if you don´t know the trial.

alpha_synuclein

That's what you get if you allow to ignore vast majority of mechs in normal. The garden of bad habits.

nbksaske

Before I did my very first Vdsr clear, I watched loads of mechanic videos that visually told me what to do (the first boss is the worst)
If ZOS could somehow make a system or a box come up that asks a player "you haven't been here before, would you like to see what to do on this boss" then is brought to the help section that has text and a video of what to look out for.
Probably would be a headache to implement, but I believe it would be beneficial, to newer and older players.

Tenn60

I would put that issue more on the group lead. When you are doing a pug group you really can’t ask for a parse, can’t control the gear your tanks/healers are running(outside of kicking and replacing until you get the right set up). Yes people should have some idea what they are doing before joining in a perfect world, but eso doesn’t do a great job explaining the differences in content and some people genuinely come in thinking it’s going to be like taking on a world boss or something like that. In the good pug groups I’ve run whoever is leading takes control and even more so when things seem like they are chaotic and falling apart. They assign roles and make sure people know what they are doing. And they also usually can tell quickly whether or not we are getting through and will end the run sooner rather than after 4-5 hours on the twins. If you want an organized run the only solution right now is to join a guild and try to at least build out most of your pug group with people you know(especially in the support roles) and roll the dice on DDs. I always go into a pug run with low expectations and try to use it as a test for where I’m at, can I tank and sustain with less synergies and support than normal, while still keeping everything under control, can I keep people alive that constantly stand in stupid when I’m healing, can you help make up for lower dps. If your assuming people are going to know/follow mechs in a pug run or be able to execute them in the right way you will be disappointed 99% of the time.

AnduinTryggva

CoronHR wrote: »

just horrid. maybe 3-4 players use domes. everyone else is scared or just doesn't. all 12 players need to know domes, and reefs, and bridges. and all the other mechs. sheesh. pug life really bad with this trial

My policy is: If I see ppl not knowing the mecha I try to explain it to them in a quick and easy to understand manner. Increases the player base knowing what to do and facilitates future runs...

CoronHR

Tenn60 wrote: »

I would put that issue more on the group lead. When you are doing a pug group you really can’t ask for a parse, can’t control the gear your tanks/healers are running(outside of kicking and replacing until you get the right set up). Yes people should have some idea what they are doing before joining in a perfect world, but eso doesn’t do a great job explaining the differences in content and some people genuinely come in thinking it’s going to be like taking on a world boss or something like that. In the good pug groups I’ve run whoever is leading takes control and even more so when things seem like they are chaotic and falling apart. They assign roles and make sure people know what they are doing. And they also usually can tell quickly whether or not we are getting through and will end the run sooner rather than after 4-5 hours on the twins. If you want an organized run the only solution right now is to join a guild and try to at least build out most of your pug group with people you know(especially in the support roles) and roll the dice on DDs. I always go into a pug run with low expectations and try to use it as a test for where I’m at, can I tank and sustain with less synergies and support than normal, while still keeping everything under control, can I keep people alive that constantly stand in stupid when I’m healing, can you help make up for lower dps. If your assuming people are going to know/follow mechs in a pug run or be able to execute them in the right way you will be disappointed 99% of the time.

people who join link achieves. i know those aren't terribly meaningful, but everyone's linking one, or they get kicked. still, lots of players are clueless. they probably know some basics, but have never had to really deal with domes, reefs or bridges. so they don't know how to jump in and make a save. and so they're not very strong. anyhoo...

CoronHR

update: today's pug run was literally amazing. it did take a while to get into a steady group in the group finder (the number of groups that just dissolve even before the friggin trial starts is a laugh). but this group was like smooth butter. i was shocked. people volunteering for roles, people picking up slack in the reef boss. just simply butter.

warm, smooth, easily spreadable butter

Orbital78

CoronHR wrote: »

update: today's pug run was literally amazing. it did take a while to get into a steady group in the group finder (the number of groups that just dissolve even before the friggin trial starts is a laugh). but this group was like smooth butter. i was shocked. people volunteering for roles, people picking up slack in the reef boss. just simply butter.

warm, smooth, easily spreadable butter

IMO the odds of a more experienced group in the GF increases with these sorts of events. It is up to the raid leader to determine who makes the cut and needs to be replaced. If you find a mostly guild group, those are the most likely to be smoother.

On rare occasion I have used GF to find really smooth vAS+2, vCR+1 or 2's, etc.

DenverRalphy

CoronHR wrote: »

Tenn60 wrote: »

I would put that issue more on the group lead. When you are doing a pug group you really can’t ask for a parse, can’t control the gear your tanks/healers are running(outside of kicking and replacing until you get the right set up). Yes people should have some idea what they are doing before joining in a perfect world, but eso doesn’t do a great job explaining the differences in content and some people genuinely come in thinking it’s going to be like taking on a world boss or something like that. In the good pug groups I’ve run whoever is leading takes control and even more so when things seem like they are chaotic and falling apart. They assign roles and make sure people know what they are doing. And they also usually can tell quickly whether or not we are getting through and will end the run sooner rather than after 4-5 hours on the twins. If you want an organized run the only solution right now is to join a guild and try to at least build out most of your pug group with people you know(especially in the support roles) and roll the dice on DDs. I always go into a pug run with low expectations and try to use it as a test for where I’m at, can I tank and sustain with less synergies and support than normal, while still keeping everything under control, can I keep people alive that constantly stand in stupid when I’m healing, can you help make up for lower dps. If your assuming people are going to know/follow mechs in a pug run or be able to execute them in the right way you will be disappointed 99% of the time.

people who join link achieves. i know those aren't terribly meaningful, but everyone's linking one, or they get kicked. still, lots of players are clueless. they probably know some basics, but have never had to really deal with domes, reefs or bridges. so they don't know how to jump in and make a save. and so they're not very strong. anyhoo...

When someone links an achievement into chat, the preview shows the result from the perspective of the person looking at it no? If I didn't have the achievement and you do, and I link it, you'll see it as complete.

sarahthes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

Tenn60 wrote: »

I would put that issue more on the group lead. When you are doing a pug group you really can’t ask for a parse, can’t control the gear your tanks/healers are running(outside of kicking and replacing until you get the right set up). Yes people should have some idea what they are doing before joining in a perfect world, but eso doesn’t do a great job explaining the differences in content and some people genuinely come in thinking it’s going to be like taking on a world boss or something like that. In the good pug groups I’ve run whoever is leading takes control and even more so when things seem like they are chaotic and falling apart. They assign roles and make sure people know what they are doing. And they also usually can tell quickly whether or not we are getting through and will end the run sooner rather than after 4-5 hours on the twins. If you want an organized run the only solution right now is to join a guild and try to at least build out most of your pug group with people you know(especially in the support roles) and roll the dice on DDs. I always go into a pug run with low expectations and try to use it as a test for where I’m at, can I tank and sustain with less synergies and support than normal, while still keeping everything under control, can I keep people alive that constantly stand in stupid when I’m healing, can you help make up for lower dps. If your assuming people are going to know/follow mechs in a pug run or be able to execute them in the right way you will be disappointed 99% of the time.

people who join link achieves. i know those aren't terribly meaningful, but everyone's linking one, or they get kicked. still, lots of players are clueless. they probably know some basics, but have never had to really deal with domes, reefs or bridges. so they don't know how to jump in and make a save. and so they're not very strong. anyhoo...

When someone links an achievement into chat, the preview shows the result from the perspective of the person looking at it no? If I didn't have the achievement and you do, and I link it, you'll see it as complete.

Nope. It links your achievement, including the date you cleared it.

It is funny when linking a higher level of achievement, sometimes people don't know what a HM or trifecta clear looks like and they kick.