Daily Endeavours: Complete TWO Heist Missions

Gabriel_H

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've seen people refer to sharing quests. Can Heists be shared?

Yes. There are 7 different heists. So if you do heist A, someone can share B to G with you, but not A as you ahve already done that for the day.

MJallday

complete VCR+3 with 12 nightblade healers

Niliu

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ZOS ... why are you setting daily endeavours that require quest sharing?

They aren't. Endeavors are account wide, meaning all character contributions matter. You can do a heist on one character, then another. Does not actually require grouping and sharing. Hope that helps.

Calastir

Niliu wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ZOS ... why are you setting daily endeavours that require quest sharing?

They aren't. Endeavors are account wide, meaning all character contributions matter. You can do a heist on one character, then another. Does not actually require grouping and sharing. Hope that helps.

That does assume having more than one character with Rank 3 in the thieves guild that's completed the “Master of Heists”-quest.

That's not the case for everyone.

Gabriel_H

Niliu wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ZOS ... why are you setting daily endeavours that require quest sharing?

They aren't. Endeavors are account wide, meaning all character contributions matter. You can do a heist on one character, then another. Does not actually require grouping and sharing. Hope that helps.

Your premise is flawed.

thedocbwarren

I'm not happy with the forced group content in the endeavors, especially when it's over 2 of them. Also longer investment of time for less return. I have limited time to play so it's annoying.

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I just wonder if this increase is 'prep' for the upcoming Golden Pursuits.

Getting us used of 'doing more for the same' if you will so the additional 'workload' comes as less of a shock.

Or maybe we are slacking and not meeting our productivity targets ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Very likely. However, the danger of such an approach is that players may feel that they're better off doing neither Endeavours nor Golden Pursuits. Add those things onto a crowded schedule of old events that most have done multiple times (and now don't get achievements for doing them again on additional characters) and a lot of us may decide it's time to just play the game.

...or some other game? I mean, honestly, they are putting a ton of energy into this sort of thing, and if a player isn't going to be doing it, what future is there for the player?

Valion

I get the impression that on a daily basis, our efforts are worth less and less.
A 100 kills for 10 Seals?

The whole system was implemented to conform with legal standards - and this is by far the worst excuse for that purpose at this point.

[snip]

[All solidarity with those on strike.]

[edited for bashing]

SeaGtGruff

100 kills of a general nature ("enemies") is pretty trivial. Many players routinely kill hundreds of enemies at a time to grind XP, such as while killing zombies on the beach outside of Sentinel, or doing a dolmen run, or running through the Infinite Archive. And if a player isn't killing 100s of enemies anyway to grind for XP or some currency like Archival Fortunes, Tel Var Stones, or Imperial Fragments, they can get the endeavor compketed by fighting world bosses or dungeon mini-bosses that spawn many waves of adds. So that particular endeavor easily fits the idea that players can get some endeavors done simply by doing the things that they're already doing anyway.

On the other hand, the "complete 2 heists" endeavor isn't something that many players could get done simply by doing things they're already doing anyway, unless they happen to be doing Heists on multiple characters that day, or routinely do multiple Heists a day on their main character by asking other players to share their daily Heist quests with them. So it isn't beyond the realm of possibility, but it doesn't seem very likely that the average player will get that endeavor done just by doing the things they're already doing anyway.

But that's why there are a variety of endeavors to choose from, so players can pick which ones best fit their regular activities and preferred playstyle.

As far as the consistency of time and effort required per endeavor, and the ratio of rewards to work involved, that has always varied a good bit from day to day, and even between one endeavor and another on the same day. It would be very difficult to offer 3 weekly endeavors, or 5 daily endeavors, that would require the same amount of time and effort as each other, as well as giving the same ratio of rewards to work, given the fact that an activity which is easy for some players might be difficult for other players, or that something which takes some players less than 10 minutes to get done might take half an hour or longer for other players.

And the rewards often include other things besides Seals of Endeavor, such as gold or XP, so there's going to be variations in how many Seals of Endeavor are available to earn from one week or day to the next. Sadly, that isn't the case today, but there are bound to be days or weeks when the rewards are smaller than usual.

fizzylu

Calastir wrote: »

The intent and message is clear; "Buy Crown Crates"

That, or; "Please stay logged in longer"

Nerouyn

AzuraFan wrote: »

The endeavors do seem all over the place in terms of effort. We had a couple of weeks of trivial ones (kill one thing), but now this week we have kill 100 enemies and do two heists (which requires two characters that have progressed far enough in the thieves guild main quest, or quest sharing). There's something amiss when I complete the weekly before completing the daily ones.

I'd peg this as probable experimentation.

They'll be recording how many people actually do them and things like disengagement (i.e. stopping) following horrible ones like the double heister.

Tandor wrote: »

Very likely. However, the danger of such an approach is that players may feel that they're better off doing neither Endeavours nor Golden Pursuits. Add those things onto a crowded schedule of old events that most have done multiple times (and now don't get achievements for doing them again on additional characters) and a lot of us may decide it's time to just play the game.

That's essentially me. Event fatigued and super over doing absolutely anything in any game which I don't inherently enjoy.

None of us are mindless ninnies. We're not going to love something which isn't fun just because someone attaches a shiny reward to it.

We may do the unfun thing, but the more unfun packed into any game, the easier it becomes to decide to stop playing.

SeaGtGruff

* Craft 5 Items with the Jewelry Crafting skill
* Spend 2000 Archival Fortunes in the Infinite Archive
* Use Ultimate Abilities 4 Times

How long does it take to do those three?

Unless you don't already have 2000 Archival Fortunes to spend, in which case you'd need to earn them first. But then you could do either

* Complete 1 Battleground Match
or
* Defeat 100 Enemies

I don't know how long Battleground Matches normally take-- I think they used to be limited to 15 minutes at most, but I haven't tried the new format yet-- but it's pretty quick and easy to kill 100 enemies if you have some familiarity with the game (that is, which locations to go to or which bosses to fight).

How do those endeavors require staying logged in longer than usual?

kringled_1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

100 kills of a general nature ("enemies") is pretty trivial. Many players routinely kill hundreds of enemies at a time to grind XP, such as while killing zombies on the beach outside of Sentinel, or doing a dolmen run, or running through the Infinite Archive. And if a player isn't killing 100s of enemies anyway to grind for XP or some currency like Archival Fortunes, Tel Var Stones, or Imperial Fragments, they can get the endeavor compketed by fighting world bosses or dungeon mini-bosses that spawn many waves of adds. So that particular endeavor easily fits the idea that players can get some endeavors done simply by doing the things that they're already doing anyway.

The 100 enemies in a day isnt bad if you're already spending a decent amount of time in combat content, or a smaller amount of time in some high mob spawn content like arenas. But boss spawn mobs frequently dont count, after I finished soloing the Murkmire necromancer WB on Monday, I was at 8 enemies killed.
If you wouldnt otherwise be doing it, 100 enemies for 10-15 seals feels like a poor use of time, at least for me.

SeaGtGruff

kringled_1 wrote: »

If you wouldnt otherwise be doing it, 100 enemies for 10-15 seals feels like a poor use of time, at least for me.

In which case, pick one of the others to do.

Personally, I decided to do the 100 enemies, plus 4 ultimates, while killing mobs and bosses in the IA so I'd have 2000 AFs to spend (and help my companion level up as well), because I like to combine multiple endeavors into a single activity if I can.

But if I'd been in a hurry, I could have just done the Jewelry one and killed zombies on the beach in Alik'r (since I didn't already have 2000 AFs to spend), or picked up the Mages Guild daily to help improve my rapport with Bastian and killed trash mobs in a public dungeon.

100 trash enemies don't take long to kill if you pick someplace with a lot of trash mobs.

As for the specific reward for doing so, the ratio of reward to work is difficult to objectively quantify because some players can melt through 100 enemies in almost no time, while other players will take a lot longer, depending on the location they've chosen and what their DPS and slotted skills happen to be.

I do think it's unfortunate that there are no rewards (gold, XP, etc.) in addition to the SoEs, but some days have better rewards than usual, and some days have worse rewards than usual.

vsrs_au

kringled_1 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

100 kills of a general nature ("enemies") is pretty trivial. Many players routinely kill hundreds of enemies at a time to grind XP, such as while killing zombies on the beach outside of Sentinel, or doing a dolmen run, or running through the Infinite Archive. And if a player isn't killing 100s of enemies anyway to grind for XP or some currency like Archival Fortunes, Tel Var Stones, or Imperial Fragments, they can get the endeavor compketed by fighting world bosses or dungeon mini-bosses that spawn many waves of adds. So that particular endeavor easily fits the idea that players can get some endeavors done simply by doing the things that they're already doing anyway.

The 100 enemies in a day isnt bad if you're already spending a decent amount of time in combat content, or a smaller amount of time in some high mob spawn content like arenas. But boss spawn mobs frequently dont count, after I finished soloing the Murkmire necromancer WB on Monday, I was at 8 enemies killed.
If you wouldnt otherwise be doing it, 100 enemies for 10-15 seals feels like a poor use of time, at least for me.

Agreed, it's pretty clearly indicating that the value of endeavour seals is getting less.

Necrotech_Master

its pretty rare a days endeavors takes me more than 30 min (total) to do, even with some of these that have higher than average requirements lately

the average time it takes me is about 15 minutes to do all 3 daily endeavors

Nerouyn

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

its pretty rare a days endeavors takes me more than 30 min (total) to do, even with some of these that have higher than average requirements lately

the average time it takes me is about 15 minutes to do all 3 daily endeavors

Games aren't jobs though. They're meant to be fun.

The more homework ESO (and other games) cram in, the more I feel relief and joy when quitting out of the game.

And the less I feel like actually playing. Or logging in again.

Necrotech_Master

Nerouyn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

its pretty rare a days endeavors takes me more than 30 min (total) to do, even with some of these that have higher than average requirements lately

the average time it takes me is about 15 minutes to do all 3 daily endeavors

Games aren't jobs though. They're meant to be fun.

The more homework ESO (and other games) cram in, the more I feel relief and joy when quitting out of the game.

And the less I feel like actually playing. Or logging in again.

all i can say if you dont like the endeavors, dont do them lol

the only thing the endeavors gets you is the ability to directly buy stuff from crates, which arent needed to play the game

the endeavors are the only consistent daily thing i do every day, any other thing i do daily, i do it to achieve some objective (like im doing daily crafting writs on my main even though i hate them because its the only reliable way to get surveys for the new achievements for doing surveys, as surveys are bound and cant buy them, but thats an entirely "me" thing)

technically your not even required to collect the daily login reward, but i can understand all of this stuff is very FOMO to some people and they will do it even if they hate/dislike it

Nerouyn

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

all i can say if you dont like the endeavors, dont do them lol

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, I don't.

I have enough gems from from free crates and seals from endeavours I've done that IF something shows up in their stores which I absolutely have to have, then I can buy it.

But my threshold for that is high.

The current Ayleid mounts are probably the best I'll ever see in that respect but I'd rather not spend those currencies and continue to enjoy the guarantee that I can buy something else instead.

Without ever needing to do chores again.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing the endeavors gets you is the ability to directly buy stuff from crates, which arent needed to play the game

Video games are a visual medium and while those rewards are only cosmetic, cosmetics are fundamental in a visual medium.

Valion

I must admit, I was VERY surprised how soon into my play today I dropped the 100 enemies.
Not that much effort, as others already pointed out.
I stand corrected.
Still yet, my point stands:
Rewards in the Endeavour system see a slight degrade ever since the beginning,
those "event-like" months not considered.
(Those gave good rewards, and they thematically intriguing on that.)

Meridiano

Another cool daily endeavour is today, this one I cannot complete even in theory it seems.

- Complete one weekly endeavour.

Lmao, I have a weekly already completed. And this daily doesn't count it, looks like it requires exacly what's said, I need to COMPLETE any weekly, not to HAVE IT completed. This is so absurd.

AzuraFan

Meridiano wrote: »

Another cool daily endeavour is today, this one I cannot complete even in theory it seems.

- Complete one weekly endeavour.

Lmao, I have a weekly already completed. And this daily doesn't count it, looks like it requires exacly what's said, I need to COMPLETE any weekly, not to HAVE IT completed. This is so absurd.

Is this on PC/EU? Wondering if we'll see the same nonsense tomorrow on PC/NA.

Syldras

Meridiano wrote: »

Another cool daily endeavour is today, this one I cannot complete even in theory it seems.
- Complete one weekly endeavour.
Lmao, I have a weekly already completed. And this daily doesn't count it, looks like it requires exacly what's said, I need to COMPLETE any weekly, not to HAVE IT completed. This is so absurd.

How wonderful. Ideally, that daily task should only pop up on Mondays, just like event-related daily tasks only appear during events.

At least there seem to be other okay-ish tasks today (if what I find online is correct, destroying 1 harrowstorm, crafting 1 set piece, kill 10 humanoid foes).

Mik195

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

* Craft 5 Items with the Jewelry Crafting skill
* Spend 2000 Archival Fortunes in the Infinite Archive
* Use Ultimate Abilities 4 Times

How long does it take to do those three?

Unless you don't already have 2000 Archival Fortunes to spend, in which case you'd need to earn them first. But then you could do either

* Complete 1 Battleground Match
or
* Defeat 100 Enemies

I don't know how long Battleground Matches normally take-- I think they used to be limited to 15 minutes at most, but I haven't tried the new format yet-- but it's pretty quick and easy to kill 100 enemies if you have some familiarity with the game (that is, which locations to go to or which bosses to fight).

How do those endeavors require staying logged in longer than usual?

If you have Gold Road, kill 100 enemies is about one and a half Mirrormoors and you seem to get credit for everything you hit, not just the final kill. Might only be one round if you get their early enough to kill the ones rhat summon the boss.

shadyjane62

I am already at the point where this game is not worth the sub. This type of requirement just makes me ignore endeavors.

This is from someone who did them religiously but no more.

The seals just aren't worth the time.

SeaGtGruff

vsrs_au wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

100 kills of a general nature ("enemies") is pretty trivial. Many players routinely kill hundreds of enemies at a time to grind XP, such as while killing zombies on the beach outside of Sentinel, or doing a dolmen run, or running through the Infinite Archive. And if a player isn't killing 100s of enemies anyway to grind for XP or some currency like Archival Fortunes, Tel Var Stones, or Imperial Fragments, they can get the endeavor compketed by fighting world bosses or dungeon mini-bosses that spawn many waves of adds. So that particular endeavor easily fits the idea that players can get some endeavors done simply by doing the things that they're already doing anyway.

The 100 enemies in a day isnt bad if you're already spending a decent amount of time in combat content, or a smaller amount of time in some high mob spawn content like arenas. But boss spawn mobs frequently dont count, after I finished soloing the Murkmire necromancer WB on Monday, I was at 8 enemies killed.
If you wouldnt otherwise be doing it, 100 enemies for 10-15 seals feels like a poor use of time, at least for me.

Agreed, it's pretty clearly indicating that the value of endeavour seals is getting less.

Not really, not in my opinion. The number of seals fluctuates from day to day-- for instance, today's endeavors are worth 15 seals each. And if you think about it, it sort of makes better sense for the harder endeavors to be given on days when each endeavor awards less seals than usual. I know that sounds backwards, but think of it this way:

Monday - 5 endeavors that are very easy for most players to complete, with at least 3 of them being possible to complete in just the base game, without needing access to any DLCs or chapters.

Tuesday - 5 endeavors that are not as easy to complete as the ones on the previous day, possibly with 3 or more of them being doable only if a player has access to some particular DLC or chapter.

(The above is purely hypothetical, not a reference to any actual endeavors on Monday and Tuesday of this week.)

You might think that Monday's endeavors should award fewer seals than Tuesday's endeavors, such that the number of seals reflects how difficult the endeavors are. But how do you think the players would feel about that? Any players who could do only 2/3 endeavors on Tuesday would be upset that they couldn't complete a third endeavor and were unable to get the seals for that third endeavor. From the game company's perspective, it would be much more user-friendly if the easy endeavors that anyone can do would award a larger number of seals, while awarding fewer seals per endeavor on days when some players might not be capable of completing 3 of the 5. That way, players who could complete only 2 endeavors that day would not be missing out on as many seals as they would be if the endeavors were worth more.

SeaGtGruff

Although this thread is supposed to be about the "two Heists" endeavor, I have just one more thing to point out about the "kill 100 enemies" endeavor since it was also brought up.

If you go to the Infinite Archive, each cycle has two mob stages (or whatever they're called) before the Cycle Boss appears. Each of the two stages in Arc 1 Cycle 1 has 3 mobs, then 3 more mobs, then 5 mobs. Cycle 2 is the same. Then in Cycle 3 they increase to 4 mobs, 4 more mobs, and 6 mobs per stage. (At least, I think that's right.) So as you work your way through Arc 1, you'll be killing the following number of enemies:

Cycle 1 -- 3+3+5 = 11 enemies -- 3+3+5 = 11 enemies -- boss = 1 more enemy -- running total: 23 enemies
Cycle 2 -- 3+3+5 = 11 enemies -- 3+3+5 = 11 enemies -- boss = 1 more enemy -- running total: 46 enemies
Cycle 3 -- 4+4+6 = 14 enemies -- 4+4+6 = 14 enemies -- boss = 1 more enemy -- running total: 75 enemies
Cycle 4 -- 4+4+6 = 14 enemies -- 4+4+6 = 14 enemies -- boss = 1 more enemy -- running total: 104 enemies

In other words, this endeavor involves less work than earning 1000 Archival Fortunes, since it requires completing only 4 of the cycles (so either 800 AFs or 880 AFs, depending on whether the player has ESO Plus).

Furthermore, I completed the endeavor just shy of finishing Cycle 3, because apparently the adds of the cycle bosses counted as enemies, and I think maybe the adds of the mobs also counted. For instance, I think that if a mob summons a totem and you destroy the totem, it might count as killing an enemy, similar to how you can fill an empty soul gem by casting Soul Trap on a goblin's totem and destroying it, or how destroying the totems of a miregaunt counts as killing stone atronachs. So you very likely won't even need to actually complete the first three cycles of Arc 1 for this endeavor, just the first two cycles plus most of the third cycle.

And you could get it done even quicker if you went to "zombie beach" in Alik'r.

It's just that "100 enemies" sounds like a lot, but it really isn't.

Taril

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

You might think that Monday's endeavors should award fewer seals than Tuesday's endeavors, such that the number of seals reflects how difficult the endeavors are. But how do you think the players would feel about that? Any players who could do only 2/3 endeavors on Tuesday would be upset that they couldn't complete a third endeavor and were unable to get the seals for that third endeavor. From the game company's perspective, it would be much more user-friendly if the easy endeavors that anyone can do would award a larger number of seals, while awarding fewer seals per endeavor on days when some players might not be capable of completing 3 of the 5. That way, players who could complete only 2 endeavors that day would not be missing out on as many seals as they would be if the endeavors were worth more.

At some point, during this line of reasoning, one must stop and ask... "What is the point of all this?"

What exactly is the purpose for this constant rotation of daily endeavors? What does it add to the game over simply having a static list of generic options that people might simply achieve by doing their normal gameplay?

Especially with the relatively miniscule rewards that are tied to the whole thing (10-15 seals and maybe a small amount of experience or gold)

If the idea for the continual rotation being to get people to try different types of content, then it fails because the rewards aren't worth people doing something they find unfun or difficult.

If the idea is to try and get people to play more per day, then it fails because people will just pick the easiest/fastest 3 options if they even bother completing that many (Again, the rewards aren't worth people doing things they find unfun or difficult)

Even with the weekly endeavors, which might push people towards certain things (Like last week when it was a massive 50 WB's or like 20 minutes in IC or a bit of time in IA)... But will it actually make people actively participate in the content? No it'll make people begrudgingly do the bare minimum to meet the endeavor requirements and then stop.

Like, don't get me wrong. The base concept of Endeavors makes perfect sense. Get people having to actually do something besides log in, collect their daily rewards and log out. The questionable part is about making the Endeavors be annoying or too involved for their meagre offerings.

Rowjoh

Complete 1 weekly endeavour

Gabriel_H

Rowjoh wrote: »

Complete 1 weekly endeavour

Yep. Just spotted that one too. /facepalm