So my trade guild is closing...

LaintalAy · September 19

TaSheen wrote: »

Silly. I've been here for years. I already know everything I need to know to be "informed". Which is why I "shop" only in Vivec. I find arguments like this one.... specious and useless. And y'know? I don't give a rat's patoot if guilds are doing "fine" somewhere.

I don't quite understand your use of the word 'silly' in this context.

Pelanora · September 19

LaintalAy wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Silly. I've been here for years. I already know everything I need to know to be "informed". Which is why I "shop" only in Vivec. I find arguments like this one.... specious and useless. And y'know? I don't give a rat's patoot if guilds are doing "fine" somewhere.

I don't quite understand your use of the word 'silly' in this context.

Silly- adjective. When one has a quite narrow window, and that's all one wants to look through, the rest of things are silly.

Northwold · September 19

LaintalAy wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Silly. I've been here for years. I already know everything I need to know to be "informed". Which is why I "shop" only in Vivec. I find arguments like this one.... specious and useless. And y'know? I don't give a rat's patoot if guilds are doing "fine" somewhere.

I don't quite understand your use of the word 'silly' in this context.

Was likely a reference to your last sentence which may inadvertently have come off as an attempt to "school" someone who didn't need to be schooled.

LikiLoki · September 19

I heard a thought in one of the comments: Guilds are not closing because of the economy in particular, Guilds are closing because of the fatigue of Guild Masters because the game developer does not help them but only complicates their work. The guild management is tired of the fact that there have been no changes and improvements for guilds over the years

moderatelyfatman · September 19

LikiLoki wrote: »

I heard a thought in one of the comments: Guilds are not closing because of the economy in particular, Guilds are closing because of the fatigue of Guild Masters because the game developer does not help them but only complicates their work. The guild management is tired of the fact that there have been no changes and improvements for guilds over the years

No, my GM sent us all a message saying that due to deteriorating sales over the course of the current year, it was no longer viable to keep going. It makes sense given the drop we've all been experiencing in quantity and quality of sales.
Of course, one specific case is not necessarily a trend.

Ingenon · September 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I actually did do the whole go to each town thing before. I discovered that the capital city traders were correct. I went way out of my way on expensive item to have the best price on the whole server. Went to every single guild trader AND offered to match the price of any old guild trader listing that was lower than mine if I had somehow missed one.

I wasted hours because not a single person cared and I ended up putting it in my trader for capital city prices where it sold after a month. LOL

You're acting like people don't just go to some places like Elden Root and average out a price when they don't know what to list something for in smaller traders, but that's not the case.

There are no hidden prices. There are no set prices.

^This

On PS/NA, when I list stuff, I look at the capital city traders to see what they are listing it for, and price it for the low end of their prices, on the guild trader my social guild hires in a smaller location. And it sells typically within a month.

And when I go to buy stuff, like Opal style pages I do not know during this Undaunted event, I go to several traders to find the lowest price. And often find the lowest price at a capital city trader for the same item.

MJallday · September 19

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

hiyde · September 19

MJallday wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

This post is a bit of a headscratcher. Maybe I'm missing something.

1. In a lot of trading guilds, there certainly are mandatory minimum amounts of contribution required via sales tax or other forms of fundraising. Guilds without mandatory minimums still have expectations that members will help with the bid somehow. Those contributing 0, or at the bottom of the list are going to be the first booted when it's time to make room for applicants.

2 & 3
The gold cost of say, the Daggerfall manor has not changed. If you're saving up gold to buy one, via farming nodes for instance, you're gonna have to farm 3-4 times as many nodes to get the gold needed than you would have needed to 6 months ago.

I'm not opining on the swift adjustment to the economy - but nothing the person you quoted said is "made up". A whole lot of traders feel this way.

Necrotech_Master · September 19

LaintalAy wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

Players who used to buy furniture for their homes will not find furniture in the store.

That's because Crafters are no longer interested in all the preparation work to create it:
Research and leveling-up time. (in order to do writs)

Master Writ processing to buy gold and purple furnishing recipes

Expending huge volumes of mats on individual pieces

Listing items at super-expensive prices just to recover the mat costs

and subsequently:

The indignity of what are well-priced rare but expensive furnishings simply not selling, because other players don't understand the real costs (not prices) of producing high-level furniture.

It hasn't just been 'gimme profit' for all traders; some of us enjoyed making the things that other players might want or need.

i dont sell furniture in the store because i see it as the same thing as selling gear

selling a pre-crafted anything required a buyer looking for that specific piece

now if someone was shouting "looking for crafter to craft X furniture, will pay" then i would be more inclined to craft it for them because theres someone looking to buy the specific item, theres no pre-crafting and gambling on the fact that theres someone who wants to buy it out there

other "dropped" furniture i dont sell because i cant (due to it being bound, such as furnishings from the shadowy supplier or lorebooks), or because its so common its not worth much (some of the dropped furnishings from the infinite archive)

DenverRalphy · September 19

I sell crafted furniture. Actually, I sell a lot of crafted furniture.

Ya just gotta know which pieces are used most often, and which pieces are currently trending.

PrincessOfThieves · September 19

MJallday wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

1 But they are! It's usually that either you pay a certain amount of gold weekly or you must sell items for a certain amount of gold. If your guild requires 250-500k in sales, it's much harder to meet the requirements these days. Back in the day you could stay in those guilds as a casual player just by selling 1-2 chroming platings every week (which is very easy if you do writs).
2 Again, houses and luxury furnishings cost a fixed amount of gold. And when every farmable item is much cheaper, it takes more of them to afford these things. More farming, more time wasted for the same result.
3 That's not true at all. For example, lots of unique and interesting housing items are locked behind crowns. These crowns still sell for 2.5-3k on PC/EU because there are still many rich players who can afford that. But as an average/casual player it is now much harder to afford those. Same with pretty much everything else that is not just a crafting material or a motif.
Motifs, materials and other things that you can reliably farm used to be a good way to earn gold for those who do not sell crowns, carries or manipulate the market. Nowadays, they are pretty much worthless.
And no, selling them at low prices is not "fair". It takes time to farm those mats, and when I get nothing for my time, the farming is essentially pointless.

P.S. You could argue that upgrade mats used to be overpriced, but on a flipside they used to be a great way for casual players to farm gold. These days if you cannot do carries or sell crowns, or don't have time to constantly monitor the crashing market trying to find a niche, you are pretty much screwed.

Necrotech_Master · September 19

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

1 But they are! It's usually that either you pay a certain amount of gold weekly or you must sell items for a certain amount of gold. If your guild requires 250-500k in sales, it's much harder to meet the requirements these days. Back in the day you could stay in those guilds as a casual player just by selling 1-2 chroming platings every week (which is very easy if you do writs).
2 Again, houses and luxury furnishings cost a fixed amount of gold. And when every farmable item is much cheaper, it takes more of them to afford these things. More farming, more time wasted for the same result.
3 That's not true at all. For example, lots of unique and interesting housing items are locked behind crowns. These crowns still sell for 2.5-3k on PC/EU because there are still many rich players who can afford that. But as an average/casual player it is now much harder to afford those. Same with pretty much everything else that is not just a crafting material or a motif.
Motifs, materials and other things that you can reliably farm used to be a good way to earn gold for those who do not sell crowns, carries or manipulate the market. Nowadays, they are pretty much worthless.
And no, selling them at low prices is not "fair". It takes time to farm those mats, and when I get nothing for my time, the farming is essentially pointless.

P.S. You could argue that upgrade mats used to be overpriced, but on a flipside they used to be a great way for casual players to farm gold. These days if you cannot do carries or sell crowns, or don't have time to constantly monitor the crashing market trying to find a niche, you are pretty much screwed.

most of what i still sell is mats

rubedite ingots for example are still selling around 9g each, this hasnt dropped much since before the anniversary event (i think it was maybe 12g each then)

if items are selling lower, a seller is getting less gold, but a buyer also needs less gold to buy the item, so newer players selling gold tempers for example would still have the same relative buying power

and for point 1, no, guilds absolutely do not need dues or minimum sales, i suspect a lot of guilds are vastly overbidding on trader locations because its a blind system and are just guessing that others are going to be bidding the same amounts

if the guilds are still bidding the same amounts, thats not going to be sustainable in the current market which is why the guilds are folding, because they dont try to bid less, or reduce dues or whatever to work with both the market and the members

kargen27 · September 19

LikiLoki wrote: »

I heard a thought in one of the comments: Guilds are not closing because of the economy in particular, Guilds are closing because of the fatigue of Guild Masters because the game developer does not help them but only complicates their work. The guild management is tired of the fact that there have been no changes and improvements for guilds over the years

Been a few years back but two of the trade guilds I was in did fall apart because the guild leaders were moving on to something else and nobody wanted to take over for them. It is a lot of time investment to properly run any guild and trade guilds are really intense with the amount of time needed to make them run smooth.

WitchyKiki · September 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I sell crafted furniture. Actually, I sell a lot of crafted furniture.

Ya just gotta know which pieces are used most often, and which pieces are currently trending.

I know a good portion of furnishing recipes, but I've never tried selling furniture... How does one break into this market?

hiyde · September 19

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

and for point 1, no, guilds absolutely do not need dues or minimum sales, i suspect a lot of guilds are vastly overbidding on trader locations because its a blind system and are just guessing that others are going to be bidding the same amounts

if the guilds are still bidding the same amounts, thats not going to be sustainable in the current market which is why the guilds are folding, because they dont try to bid less, or reduce dues or whatever to work with both the market and the members

Unless the GM is generously covering a kiosk in a refuge or outpost on the map, one way or another, the bids need to be covered by the membership. Whether that's via minimums, dues, creative fundraising or "expectations" of participation.

The stock answer to trade guild frustrations appears to be "oh well they're still bidding what they were 6 months ago so it's all their fault".

I assure you most guilds, especially in high traffic zones, are not bidding what they were 6 months ago. That would mean they're bidding up to 50% of current sales. 🤣

In the guilds I help run, and the handful of guild GM's I'm friendly with, they've all lowered bids/minimums/"fair share" in step with sales. In our guilds, we went back into the bid range of 2021, when sales were last at these levels. Even with that (and even lower bids), it is increasingly difficult to cover the bids.

The actual issue a lot of trade guilds are facing is that long-time traders are retiring from trading and/or leaving the game entirely. The ones that take time to say goodbye all say roughly the same thing: They're frustrated pricing has plummeted 75% and even when they try to sell at those rates, things are not moving.

A lot of folks who are sticking around are sitting on their inventories and not going out of their way to support their trade guilds. (to be clear, not all, there are still a lot of wonderful members around who understand they need to help their guild(s) out in good times and bad.)

Trade guilds still have to bid *something* for these locations and yes the bid amounts are driven by the amount of foot traffic these locations get. A trading guild can't just shut down and wait for better times, unless they want to rebuild from scratch (no small feat). Swapping to a lower-tier location from where they are is essentially the same thing as shutting down: people who wanted to be on the old spot will exit and go join a guild in the spot they wanna be at. If a guild *does* swap out temporarily to a lower-tier spot, not only are they displacing someone else, they'll have to rebuild yet again if they ever want to upgrade.

That's how the system works. Most players join guilds based on the location. If guild changes locations, they're going to have significant member churn either way, unless it's a lateral move.

Love or hate the system, those who manage trade guilds (and all guilds) are unpaid volunteers who enjoy helping others get the most out of ESO. If I wanted to be wealthy in this game, the first thing I'd do is step down from management lol

Personally, I'm rather agnostic to the changes in the economy. As long sellers are happily selling, buyers are happily buying and the guild can cover appropriate bids, I'm good. But that's not where we are at this point in time. Perhaps we'll get there once people adapt or newer players rotate in but it's really sad to see so many long-time valued members heading for the exits.

I hope this helps those who may not be very familiar with trade guilds and the current issues they are dealing with. If you enjoy the trade guild(s) you're in, please support as best you can.

It does take a significant amount of time and effort to build (and maintain) a thriving 500 member community. This doesn't mean guild management are saints, but they also shouldn't be punching bags.

kargen27 · September 20

"Unless the GM is generously covering a kiosk in a refuge or outpost on the map, one way or another, the bids need to be covered by the membership. Whether that's via minimums, dues, creative fundraising or "expectations" of participation."

The trade guild I am a member of has weekly gathering contests where all the materials harvested go to the guild. They also have a fishing event where everything caught goes to the guild. That used to be a great way to help fund the guild as the guild leaders could list all the materials and use that to boost guild funds. So far we haven't had to adjust to make up for the lost revenue the materials generated but I'm sure it has our guild leaders scrambling a bit.
We did raise the weekly dues a couple of months before the change to 14 days so maybe that gave us the cushion we needed? We don't get one of the premier sites but we do get a pretty decent location.

LaintalAy · September 20

Some history:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146306/taxation-though-donation-collecting-taxes-for-guild-stores

hiyde · September 20

LaintalAy wrote: »

Some history:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146306/taxation-though-donation-collecting-taxes-for-guild-stores

Let's pull that 9 year old 1-page post over here so we aren't necroing a thread...

Terminus wrote: »

So the purpose of this discussion is to talk about a problem that a lot of guilds are facing regarding paying for their guild stores, as well as some simple solutions to fix it.

Problem: The majority of all guild stores must resort to raffles and other external means to collect the money needed to pay for their guild stores.

What can be done to more easily automate this system?

Solution 1:Customizable Guild Tax
People have been asking for this for a long time. Guild should be able to customize their tax rates up to what they feel is best for their guild. Set limits on the tax; maybe have a minimum of 7%, and a maximum of 25%?

Solution 2: Automated Raffles
Create a system that allows players to opt in to an automated raffle. This will minimize the effort required from guild leaders to keep track of individuals who enter and win contests. This will be extremely helpful to guilds with more than 200 players, who need to track hundreds of donations every week.

Solution 3: Auto Donate Profits
Create a system that allows players to check a box when they place an item on sale within the guild store that deposits all of the profit from a sale directly into the guild bank, rather than through the mail to a player. This would allow players to put equipment on sale from the guild banks on behalf of their guild.

EDIT: Minor syntax and phrasing

1: Variable sales tax straight up isn't going to work. Guilds will have little choice but to select the lowest rate and will keep right on fundraising for the other 80% of the bid they need to raise. (but I'd love to be proved wrong). What I think WOULD be really helpful is to give the full 7% tax to guilds instead of 1/2 and the other half being a gold sink. That would take a *some* pressure off of fundraising.

2: Automated Raffle System. Yes, Yes, Yes. [/megryan]. That suggestion was made 9 years ago, though. I don't have a lot of optimism we'll see this or any other real improvements to the guild trader system, which is a shame. I do have an old unsupported private addon that automates raffles. Unfortunately it requires a custom web server. I would *love* to work with a LUA coder to eliminate the website and substitute that part with Google Sheets, so that this addon could be released to all PC trade guilds that want it. I have written permission from the addon author, just haven't been able to find a programmer. (sorry, consoles, I know that doesn't help you guys).

3: Auto Donate profits from specific transactions. Maybe combining 1 & 3 and let members select a higher share to guild? Either way, doubtful we'll see it.

Love it or hate it (my opinion changes daily lol), ZOS built a really interesting system of hundreds of small businesses and then gave us absolutely no support or tools to run them. While a patchwork of addons help out quite a bit for PC players, a lot of this stuff should be built in so that console players have it. At the bare, bare minimum, trading guilds should have built-in tools to see how much the guild sold and who sold what.

Pevey · September 20

The guilds aren’t akin to small businesses at all. They are more akin to… guilds. As in old time merchant guilds, as in essentially gatekeepers.

I used to participate in end game trading, and I think some of the traders no longer doing this might be like me. Just fatigued with the absurdity of this system.

hiyde · September 20

Pevey wrote: »

The guilds aren’t akin to small businesses at all. They are more akin to… guilds. As in old time merchant guilds, as in essentially gatekeepers.

I used to participate in end game trading, and I think some of the traders no longer doing this might be like me. Just fatigued with the absurdity of this system.

Small Businesses, Flea Market stalls, whatever you want to call it, that's the system ZOS set up. I have no beef with people who want a central AH. Back in 2014, the lack of one almost stopped me from playing ESO at all. That said, there's a lot of very high quality guilds/communities focused on trading.

Amottica · September 20

One significant issue with trader bids is that they are elevated because they involve exchanging real-world money for gold. Such things cause inflation in the game for the more desirable items.

Yes, we only trade in-game items for in-game items, but crowns are initially purchased with real-world money.

hiyde · September 20

Amottica wrote: »

One significant issue with trader bids is that they are elevated because they involve exchanging real-world money for gold.

How so, @Amottica?

LukosCreyden · September 20

I wonder how the economy would do if the guild trader system was scrapped in favour of a global market...
I got my Mournhold trader, but I wonder about the poor sods stuck in the back end of Betnikh or wherever. Not sure what things are like on PC, but it seems that people rarely go shopping outside of Capital cities, Vivec and maybe one or two other DLC areas.

PrincessOfThieves · September 20

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

1 But they are! It's usually that either you pay a certain amount of gold weekly or you must sell items for a certain amount of gold. If your guild requires 250-500k in sales, it's much harder to meet the requirements these days. Back in the day you could stay in those guilds as a casual player just by selling 1-2 chroming platings every week (which is very easy if you do writs).
2 Again, houses and luxury furnishings cost a fixed amount of gold. And when every farmable item is much cheaper, it takes more of them to afford these things. More farming, more time wasted for the same result.
3 That's not true at all. For example, lots of unique and interesting housing items are locked behind crowns. These crowns still sell for 2.5-3k on PC/EU because there are still many rich players who can afford that. But as an average/casual player it is now much harder to afford those. Same with pretty much everything else that is not just a crafting material or a motif.
Motifs, materials and other things that you can reliably farm used to be a good way to earn gold for those who do not sell crowns, carries or manipulate the market. Nowadays, they are pretty much worthless.
And no, selling them at low prices is not "fair". It takes time to farm those mats, and when I get nothing for my time, the farming is essentially pointless.

P.S. You could argue that upgrade mats used to be overpriced, but on a flipside they used to be a great way for casual players to farm gold. These days if you cannot do carries or sell crowns, or don't have time to constantly monitor the crashing market trying to find a niche, you are pretty much screwed.

most of what i still sell is mats

rubedite ingots for example are still selling around 9g each, this hasnt dropped much since before the anniversary event (i think it was maybe 12g each then)

if items are selling lower, a seller is getting less gold, but a buyer also needs less gold to buy the item, so newer players selling gold tempers for example would still have the same relative buying power

and for point 1, no, guilds absolutely do not need dues or minimum sales, i suspect a lot of guilds are vastly overbidding on trader locations because its a blind system and are just guessing that others are going to be bidding the same amounts

if the guilds are still bidding the same amounts, thats not going to be sustainable in the current market which is why the guilds are folding, because they dont try to bid less, or reduce dues or whatever to work with both the market and the members

Sure, it doesn't look so bad if you take the cheapest materials as an example. Even then, if it drops more, you might be better off selling it to an npc.
But rubedite ingots are just byproducts of farming upgrade mats, and those mats lost 50% or more of their price (depending on the type). And that is very significant. And sure, I could sell rubedite ingots and buy some ruby ash, their comparative value hasn't changed much. But why would I do that if I am already doing writs and I actually want to buy that new Merrywine house? And that house is now significantly harder to afford.
And it's the same with pretty much anything valuable.

hiyde wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

One significant issue with trader bids is that they are elevated because they involve exchanging real-world money for gold.

How so, @Amottica?

Some guilds sell crowns to afford bids. That is how. And it is difficult to compete against such guilds when ingame items keep devaluing and the crowns stay more or less the same.

hiyde · September 20

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Some guilds sell crowns to afford bids. That is how. And it is difficult to compete against such guilds when ingame items keep devaluing and the crowns stay more or less the same.

If the crowns are coming from member donations, any guild can do the same. If we're talking about GMs swiping credit cards, that's a couple hundred dollars a week for a top-tier location on PC-NA. If someone is willing to blow that kinda cash to win a kiosk (instead of building a community that will support the bids), well, bless their heart I guess.

Dang I need to find me a couple Sugar Daddies/Mommies so I can put my feet up & relax. Volunteers?🤣

Mathius_Mordred · September 20

We recently started trading again in my guild and have had a trader for the last 8 weeks, usually in a town centre. I was surprised at the amount of gold needed to hire a trader, in the millions. However we don't ask for donations or charge fees, instead I pay for it myself by selling crowns. I can earn in minutes IRL what would take days in the game so it makes sense for me to use real money to trade crowns for gold. Our guild would have to sell 150M a week to earn enough to hire the traders we use, we are on about 10% of that. That's fine, I do it as a service for our guild members, it's my hobby and I don't mind spending a few pounds a month doing it. Other guilds who rely entirely on trades, fees, donations and raffles to earn enough for trader hiring and don't have IRL income to supplement the costs will not last long in the current economic environment imo.

hiyde · September 20

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Other guilds who rely entirely on trades, fees, donations and raffles to earn enough for trader hiring and don't have IRL income to supplement the costs will not last long in the current economic environment imo.

While that's very generous of you, I wholeheartedly disagree that the only way a trading guild can survive is if the GM swipes their credit card every week lol

Mathius_Mordred · September 20

hiyde wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Other guilds who rely entirely on trades, fees, donations and raffles to earn enough for trader hiring and don't have IRL income to supplement the costs will not last long in the current economic environment imo.

While that's very generous of you, I wholeheartedly disagree that the only way a trading guild can survive is if the GM swipes their credit card every week lol

Yes of course, in the past that was the case. not today. the 3.5% the guild makes on each sale is not enough. Fees have to be charged, people pay fees from the gold they earn and earning gold is now more difficult with the 14 day limit, the changes to crown gifting and just a general lack of interest in trading.

Before they made the changes to crown gifting I would log in in the morning and have 15-20 sales, after that was implemented I log in and have 2-4 sales if I'm lucky. I teach all our members how to sell using TTC and the client to get the average prices and then list under those, still things don't sell. Everyone is looking for a quick easy buck, look at ink. When it first came out it was 500K a bottle, now it's at 2K and good luck selling it, everyone and his guar has been farming it and the market is saturated.

So many of our members tell me they have returned to the game, While this is great it does mean that they are more likely to leave the game again and in the meantime they don't spend a lot or sell a lot, they play the new content, run some dungeons then leave for months. When I look at what the average member sells, it's stuff for a few gold, a single raw hide scrap, a single ring, some grapes, this will not raise enough for a weekly trader. All the big sellers are already in big trading guilds and are not likely to switch unless they can no longer afford the fees, then they will look for a guild like mine who doesn't charge and their trading is subsidised.

TL/DR trading in ESO is dying and the only way to maintain it is by subsidy which is what I do, for now.

MJallday · September 20

hiyde wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

If people just priced competitively they might find their stuff sells and this problem goes away

Just because something is listed at an expensive price , doesn’t mean you have to buy it

I often look at something and think “meh for the prices of it I’ll farm it myself”

No it doesn't.
Guild dues are still the same, house prices are still the same and even crowns are not getting much cheaper (PC/EU). You just need to farm 10xharder to be able to afford anything that's not a basic crafting material or motif.
The only people who benefit from this situation are the ones who already have tons of gold and can now buy more stuff with it.
I personally just stopped doing writs on alts and left my trading guild. It is simply not worth it anymore. So I would rather not trade at all that waste my own limited time on farming and selling items that aren't worth anything.

Incorrect assumptions

1. Guild dues are not mandatory
2. House prices are nothing to do with the economy
3. You don’t have to farm any harder for anything you have done previously

I wish people would stop just making stuff up.

This post is a bit of a headscratcher. Maybe I'm missing something.

1. In a lot of trading guilds, there certainly are mandatory minimum amounts of contribution required via sales tax or other forms of fundraising. Guilds without mandatory minimums still have expectations that members will help with the bid somehow. Those contributing 0, or at the bottom of the list are going to be the first booted when it's time to make room for applicants.

2 & 3
The gold cost of say, the Daggerfall manor has not changed. If you're saving up gold to buy one, via farming nodes for instance, you're gonna have to farm 3-4 times as many nodes to get the gold needed than you would have needed to 6 months ago.

I'm not opining on the swift adjustment to the economy - but nothing the person you quoted said is "made up". A whole lot of traders feel this way.

You are missing something. its literally in your first 6 words

"in a lot of trading guilds.."

there is no requirement , no need or no prequestive to be in such a thing,
any guild with > 50 memebers can have a trading slot, and its literally a nominal amount to get a trader

no dues, no fees, no stress.

what people are talking about is the 10 or so guilds that have so called "prime" locations and making the entire argument about that.

factually, it isnt - and do you know what, if people stopped using them, and went to the smaller traders (in hideouts or the middle of noowhere) - they'd soon fall in line

supply and demand. its that simple.

LikiLoki · September 20

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

We recently started trading again in my guild and have had a trader for the last 8 weeks, usually in a town centre. I was surprised at the amount of gold needed to hire a trader, in the millions. However we don't ask for donations or charge fees, instead I pay for it myself by selling crowns. I can earn in minutes IRL what would take days in the game so it makes sense for me to use real money to trade crowns for gold. Our guild would have to sell 150M a week to earn enough to hire the traders we use, we are on about 10% of that. That's fine, I do it as a service for our guild members, it's my hobby and I don't mind spending a few pounds a month doing it. Other guilds who rely entirely on trades, fees, donations and raffles to earn enough for trader hiring and don't have IRL income to supplement the costs will not last long in the current economic environment imo.

When the crown gifts were first introduced, I predicted that some guilds would get an unfair advantage. And I was right. The gift system was a good innovation for the overall gaming experience, but terrible for the trading system