So my trade guild is closing...

moderatelyfatman · September 14

The reason given was that with the recent changes to the economy, it was no longer profitable. I've read on the forums that all we had to do is wait a week or two for the trader bids to drop off and the market would correct itself but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Has anyone else lost their trade guild too?

WitchyKiki · September 14

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

TheMajority · September 14

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

WitchyKiki · September 14

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

TheMajority · September 14

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

WitchyKiki · September 14

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

FlopsyPrince · September 14

The problem is that most who leave because of this are highly unlikely to come back in a few months.

LikiLoki · September 14

I did not notice that many guilds were closed on the European server. Of course, now is a difficult time for trading activities, but everyone has faced this, which means that no one has received an unfair advantage in the fight for kiosks. There is no need to stop activities. Why don't you reduce your appetites: a kiosk in the thieves' hideout costs only about 1 million

joergino · September 14

One of the two trading guilds I'm in just announced that the guild will have to move to a cheaper location because gold income has gone down so much. So it seems some guilds are affected more than others since bidding prices appear to drive medium tier guilds down while the rest of the guilds in those places appear to be unaffected.

And still virtually the only things I actually buy regularly are basic crafting materials whose prices don't seem to have gone down at all.

But since I normally only buy from people in the guilds I'm in, this is not that important anyway.

AnduinTryggva · September 14

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

Yeah, I think it is over optimistic to claim that the market will reach its new stability point within weeks.

In any market the deflationary process takes quite long because most sellers are reluctant to accept the new prices and will first try to request old prices and slowly reduce it until doing the inevitable. This will apply for guild masters and their sales requirements too. They eventually will adapt as a guild that has no sellers meeting irrealistic requirements is like a guild without members.

I however observe a much reduced price drop rate. So my guess is we will get closer to the new and more realistic market.

Heren · September 14

joergino wrote: »

One of the two trading guilds I'm in just announced that the guild will have to move to a cheaper location because gold income has gone down so much. So it seems some guilds are affected more than others since bidding prices appear to drive medium tier guilds down while the rest of the guilds in those places appear to be unaffected.

Yeah, people report that their guild is disbanding due to the bad economical situation, yet the do it because they can't afford to buy traders, wich mean that other guilds still can afford to outbid them. The guilds that are closing are most likely the weakest of all ( this, or all the other guilds that can outbid them are getting fund by, let's say, unfair means, eg crown selling, boosting maybe - wich I kinda doubt ).

if you can't belong to a strong guild, don't expect to be on the top of the food chain. Adapt or die. And apparently other people / guilds are adapting, so...

Tandor · September 14

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Are you sure it was happening? I'm certain we've been told many times on this forum that such things can only happen with a central auction house, and that this is the main reason we must retain the existing sytem

!

Dragonnord · September 14

So they closed instead of adjusting to the new economy? Wrong move.

Varana · September 14

Tandor wrote: »

Are you sure it was happening? I'm certain we've been told many times on this forum that such things can only happen with a central auction house, and that this is the main reason we must retain the existing sytem !

No one ever has said that, and you know it perfectly well.

FlopsyPrince · September 15

Varana wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Are you sure it was happening? I'm certain we've been told many times on this forum that such things can only happen with a central auction house, and that this is the main reason we must retain the existing sytem !

No one ever has said that, and you know it perfectly well.

A central AH is claimed to do whatever the one making the reply claims they don't want, in far too many cases.

The primary point is that it would raise prices far too high, as if that doesn't happen at all now. It doesn't for stuff that is all places, but for those things that are hard to find. Those have almost all gone up in cost, the very thing I have been told a central AH would cause.

Pelanora · September 15

For the first time in a loooong time, the lineup of traders in alinor is different.

kargen27 · September 15

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Flipping the vast majority of the time is buying items listed below market price and relisting them at market price. That doesn't contribute to inflation.

WitchyKiki · September 15

kargen27 wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Flipping the vast majority of the time is buying items listed below market price and relisting them at market price. That doesn't contribute to inflation.

Except... that it does. However, what you are describing is not flipping, its opportunistic buying - find lower items to list at the current market value.

moderatelyfatman · September 15

kargen27 wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Flipping the vast majority of the time is buying items listed below market price and relisting them at market price. That doesn't contribute to inflation.

A bit confused here: so a buyer arriving late pays more to a middleman rather than buying directly from the original seller at a lower price. How is this not inflation when enough people do this?

SeaGtGruff · September 15

kargen27 wrote: »

Flipping the vast majority of the time is buying items listed below market price and relisting them at market price. That doesn't contribute to inflation.

I question whether "the vast majority of the time" is an accurate description. Do you have hard evidence to confirm that? But even if it were an accurate description, all it would be doing is deliberately manipulate the market to try to keep prices the same, which is contrary to the idea of letting supply and demand determine prices. How is any sort of "market correction" supposed to happen if the market manipulators are busy trying to manipulate prices to match what they've decided are "the correct prices"?

Nharimlur_Finor · September 15

Tandor wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Are you sure it was happening? I'm certain we've been told many times on this forum that such things can only happen with a central auction house, and that this is the main reason we must retain the existing system !

TTC is the culprit, but you already knew that.

FlopsyPrince · September 15

kargen27 wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Flipping the vast majority of the time is buying items listed below market price and relisting them at market price. That doesn't contribute to inflation.

It just takes money from those who didn't know better and puts it in the hands of the ones who know a better price. Fine if the lower priced seller just wanted a quick sale, but the current system hides the true optimal price from many players, especially on console. That is not good game design.

FlopsyPrince · September 15

LaintalAy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I left my high-traffic trade guild because the dues/requirements did not lower despite the economy taking a nosedive. The truth is, that ESO was suffering from inflation that was speculative. I had reported countless members on high-traffic guilds for massively buying items to post at higher prices. Some people had 220M on sales PER WEEK by manipulating the market.

The problem right now is people are still operating under the rules of the old economy, and while I benefited greatly from it I'm also glad the economy finally corrected itself.

The high trade guilds will continue to dominate for a while til the cash runs dry. It will take a few more months, but hopefully your guild will come back.

why would you report someone for that? how is that against the TOS?

I was reporting them to guild leaders because thats a tactic that is frowned upon on some guilds. Said person was also trying to rip me off by telling me to list certain items lower, when I did and they instantly sold, I realized they bought it, and saw them list the items much higher. So yes, I reported them to the guild leaders who promptly kicked these people out.

that context was something needed in your first post it just sounded like you was randomly reporting people for flipping. yeah, that person was clearly actually scamming you which is different from flipping.

Well, they were flipping. This type of behavior contributes to the type of inflation we were seeing in the game. Flipping is anti-consumer friendly and detrimental to the economy.

Are you sure it was happening? I'm certain we've been told many times on this forum that such things can only happen with a central auction house, and that this is the main reason we must retain the existing system !

TTC is the culprit, but you already knew that.

TTC is imperfect. It will count the price for buying and reposting higher as a "sale" even though it is just a temporary one, making the true price seem to be cheaper.

darvaria · September 15

TTC has been here 6 years? (maybe longer). Prices were just too high on upgrades and now they are not. Most likely, the reduction in chromium plating? That one upgrade was being price gouged.

Or is it the 14 day sale listing?

I only use TTC.

Nharimlur_Finor · September 15

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

The reason given was that with the recent changes to the economy, it was no longer profitable. I've read on the forums that all we had to do is wait a week or two for the trader bids to drop off and the market would correct itself but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Has anyone else lost their trade guild too?

No. They moved from Belkarth to Orsinium months before any of this year's co-incidental activitites.

Nharimlur_Finor · September 15

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It just takes money from those who didn't know better and puts it in the hands of the ones who know a better price. Fine if the lower priced seller just wanted a quick sale, but the current system hides the true optimal price from many players, especially on console. That is not good game design.

The ESO game design has no effect on the presence of flipping.
Flippers are only players who sell items for more than they paid for them.
There is no "true optimal price". There is only an 'average price' generated by the addons that you use.

Using Potent Nirncrux as the example:

Flipper buys one for 15000 and sells it later for 20000. Making 5000.
You find one and sell it for 12000. Making 12000.

The original seller made 15000 less costs
The flipper made 5000 less costs
Both guilds made some tax from one sale or the other.
Who's the numpty here?

You'll possibly come along and respond with "but I lost 7000".
But you can't make 'a loss' on something that cost you nothing. Unless you spend money to give it away...

The people causing inflation are actually those that don't run to the locations where the bargains are; but instead shop only at Vivec or Mournhold and CHOOSE to pay the highest prices around.
It isn't greedy traders
It isn't greedy guilds
It is isn't flippers

It is buyers that can't be bothered to shop around for a better price.

TybaltKaine · September 15

Imagine citing buyers as the cause of inflation as opposed to price gouging and market manipulation.

What rot.

Nharimlur_Finor · September 15

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Imagine citing buyers as the cause of inflation as opposed to price gouging and market manipulation.

What rot.

A fundamental principle of a 'market economy' is competition.

You can't have competition if the customer won't look for a better price.

TybaltKaine · September 15

That's a bad faith argument and you know it. There is competition. Just because the popular markets are flooded by the larger guilds doesn't mean that competition doesn't exist.

If all the stores in the neighborhood are using the same prices, it doesn't matter which one the customers choose as the "competition" is colluding to mark things the same way. The customer loses and the scale tips ever higher as the markets set the prices higher and higher.

In that scenario, the customer loses, and that is exactly what TTC and add-ons of their ilk allow.

You and I both know that on the surface TTC shows aggregate pricing and assumes the user will adjust based on number of items sold and such. But that doesn't happen. The average user skews the number toward the higher end because profit is the end goal, never taking into account that the ridiculous price point is the outlier and only present in minority of listings.

Case in point, the Wisteria flower boxes that everyone got for free being listed as high as 35k. That's rampant greed and price gouging. And when the lower priced items get snatched up and relisted at the 35k price point, you have inflation, created solely by the seller setting that price.

Blaming the customer is low hanging fruit at best and baiting at worst.

Edit for spelling.

AnduinTryggva · September 15

LaintalAy wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It just takes money from those who didn't know better and puts it in the hands of the ones who know a better price. Fine if the lower priced seller just wanted a quick sale, but the current system hides the true optimal price from many players, especially on console. That is not good game design.

The ESO game design has no effect on the presence of flipping.

Flippers are only players who sell items for more than they paid for them.

There is no "true optimal price". There is only an 'average price' generated by the addons that you use.

Using Potent Nirncrux as the example:
Flipper buys one for 15000 and sells it later for 20000. Making 5000.

You find one and sell it for 12000. Making 12000.

The original seller made 15000 less costs
The flipper made 5000 less costs
Both guilds made some tax from one sale or the other.
Who's the numpty here?

You'll possibly come along and respond with "but I lost 7000".
But you can't make 'a loss' on something that cost you nothing. Unless you spend money to give it away...

The people causing inflation are actually those that don't run to the locations where the bargains are; but instead shop only at Vivec or Mournhold and CHOOSE to pay the highest prices around.
It isn't greedy traders
It isn't greedy guilds
It is isn't flippers

It is buyers that can't be bothered to shop around for a better price.

I think we don't need to search for culprits. Inflation is a result from sellers and buyers decision based on certain circumstances.

The core issue is when there is so much money floating around that people don't care to search for a bargain.

It is like in real world: Make money "cheap" (by low interest rates) and people will care less for prices and the result is: inflation where money has lost its previous value and got "cheap" (that is the prices on the same item are higher than before despite the item itself having not increased in quality or quantity).

Heren · September 15

LaintalAy wrote: »

The people causing inflation are actually those that don't run to the locations where the bargains are; but instead shop only at Vivec or Mournhold and CHOOSE to pay the highest prices around.
It isn't greedy traders
It isn't greedy guilds
It is isn't flippers

It is buyers that can't be bothered to shop around for a better price.

While it's kinda true, the sellers also share responsability : you don't sell low and relist at higher price expecting no one will buy, don't be a fool. Sellers who do that they expect selling their relisted stuff, and making a profit - there's a reason why they do that. And sure, you can say buyers should look around and don't buy at higher prices, and I agree, they shouldn't, but you can also say that sellers are using predatory methods ( ok I don't really like this expression ) and knowing full well what they're doing.

And you could also put some blame on the guilds, because the system of dispersed traders encourage speculation, searching in low trafic nodes for low prices in order to relist at higher prices in high trafic nodes, and then you need to bid enough golds in order to get a place in these high trafic nodes, so you raise participation for sellers, so sellers need to make even more profits just to keep their place in these guilds.

And you could ( again ? ) put some blame on the flippers, because they try their best to controle prices, suppressing any attempt to sell at lower prices. You know people don't get much choice for buying at lower prices when things listed at lower prices are instantly bought by flippers / speculaters, who specialize in this because that's how they make money.

And also, the system of guilds traders dispersed around the world may be to blame too, as it encourage this kind of behaviour : it's easy to speculate when there is no central market, and possibly no tools available to better assess prices ( as in consoles ).

I won't deny that it take work to make profit out of flipping / speculation, and I won't deny that, in a way, buyers pay higher price partly for the convenience of not goign around searching for better prices. But I will also advocate that the responsability is at least shared between different actors, sellers being far from innocents.

Oh, and you said that someone relisting isn't robbing the one from wich they buy at lower price - one can say they are robbing the final buyer instead.

On a more global note, the current economical situation may encourage people to seek better deals, and cause some trading guilds to collapse. Good thing, if the ones bitting the dust would stop coming here complaining about the unfairness of the current situation when they, directly or undirectly, profited from the unfairness of the precedent situation for years. Anyway I quite like the irony of this.