This isn't TES! What's going on here?

Viiqupaen

When I bought this game I was so looking forward to something that remotely matched the descriptions of it that the creators visualized in all of the hype-up videos.
First, this combat system is whack. It's nothing unique at all. It would be unique if it followed how combat functioned in the other TES games, but it's not - same buttons can be pressed, but the combat is bland and no different than any other *** generic moneytank MMO out there.

There's no crime. When a fan thinks of The Elder Scrolls, they recall in their minds all the choices they've made throughout their games that essentially make their characters interesting. There needs to be law and crime to really make this a good TES game. There is no morality or heroic / dastardly flavor to the game without a law force that players can either ignore and face the consequences or adhere to. Honestly, I felt like such a boss when I could slip poisons in the pockets of random NPCs. Why can't we have these basic TES character functions? I don't know about you, but I miss my hand-to-hand skill. I miss what sneaking once was. All of these little things are what gave the TES universe flavor. Now all we have is PvE mob grinding, questing, and PvP.

I thought this was going to be something different. I thought TES:O would be the game that broke the records by bringing the Nirn to life with the lore of the TES cultures all to be explored by the player and their friends. But that's not what we got as all. This isn't anything like the TES series. This game is essentially any other MMO out there, but using TES skins and sprites and characters. The world is broken and looks bleak and terrible. The items and little things one could pick up or examine in houses and inns and around the universe in all previous TES games have been shoddily replaced with the occasional vase or glass bottle that can't even be picked up. There's no life in this game. It's a dry quest-to-quest experience that I have seen for the many years I've been gaming. This is nothing new, and I'm very let down.

So what I want to know is if anything is changing on this front. Are there changes planned to make this game more like the TES universe we miss? I don't want to see TES:O turn into a clone of pretty much every other MMO out there, and I'm sure I'm not alone!

Trouvo

...what level are you and how many months has it been since you watched "hype" videos? much has changed, combat is easy before level say 15? at most, and crime will be the first major patch they do

S1D3FX

Viiqupaen wrote: »

So what I want to know is if anything is changing on this front. Are there changes planned to make this game more like the TES universe we miss? I don't want to see TES:O turn into a clone of pretty much every other MMO out there, and I'm sure I'm not alone!

You want to know if there are going to be changes to an MMO with a sub fee that hasn't officially released yet?

I think it might be safe to say yes.

Why is everyone so impatient?

SadisticSavior

Yeah, they've already said they are adding a crime/law system soon. It will come with the Thieves guild patch.

pysgod1978b14_ESO

Viiqupaen

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Yeah, they've already said they are adding a crime/law system soon. It will come with the Thieves guild patch.

You just made my day. Thank you!

ers101284b14_ESO

Wait how does combat not feel like Elder Scrolls? Left click attack-check, Right click block-check, Spells-check, First Person Mode - check. Tons of customization options-check,

Korah_Eaglecry

S1D3FX wrote: »

Viiqupaen wrote: »

So what I want to know is if anything is changing on this front. Are there changes planned to make this game more like the TES universe we miss? I don't want to see TES:O turn into a clone of pretty much every other MMO out there, and I'm sure I'm not alone!

You want to know if there are going to be changes to an MMO with a sub fee that hasn't officially released yet?

I think it might be safe to say yes.

Why is everyone so impatient?

This is what happens when you take a Single Player Game with an immense following and throw it into an MMO market.

Those who played the SPs are going to follow it expecting every aspect of it to somehow easily transfer over to an MMO.

They have no true understanding that to make a game work in a way that would allow thousands of people to play the same game at one time. Means that some of the Single Player aspects need to be thrown away or reworked and introduced at a later time.

daveraab16_ESO

No, not in the way you want. I now think that the people behind ESO wanted to make a standard model MMO as a kind of spiritual follow up to DAoC, rather than a game in the same spirit as the elder scrolls games. It could of been great, instead its just kind of okay if you like MMOs but a bit expensive. The MMO industry has become so tired and stagnant, even SOE who've been there since near enough the beginning have recognised it and so EQ:N if they live up to their talk is going to be much more dynamic and have some real innovations in it. ESO by contrast just rehashes the same old gameplay mechanics with a splash of modernisation here and there that often just feels tacked on for the sake of it.
Where there are nods to the Elder scrolls heritage they seem half baked. Like a first person mode that you quickly come to realise just gimps you, ir fully voiced quests that are the same boring fetch/goto/kill x quests of every other MMO. It doesn't work together.

SadisticSavior

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This is what happens when you take a Single Player Game with an immense following and throw it into an MMO market.

Those who played the SPs are going to follow it expecting every aspect of it to somehow easily transfer over to an MMO.

They have no true understanding that to make a game work in a way that would allow thousands of people to play the same game at one time. Means that some of the Single Player aspects need to be thrown away or reworked and introduced at a later time.

I remember when I played Daggerfall how much I wished it was an MMO. The game world felt kinda lonely single player.

Elsonso

Viiqupaen wrote: »

There is no morality or heroic / dastardly flavor to the game without a law force that players can either ignore and face the consequences or adhere to.

TES games have tended to have a single morality (good) and very little choice in direction. You either do exactly as the quest designer wants or you simply not do the quest. If you are lucky, the quest designer gives you a choice in directions once every so often, but very rarely do such choices actually make a difference and the frequently are just different ways to get to the same place. With rare exception, the quest lines end the same for everyone.

Yeah, you can go off and do your own thing, but you really have been doing that without the formal support of the game, or doing it because of the support of community additions to the game.

Viiqupaen wrote: »

I miss what sneaking once was.

I hear ya. For all intents and purposes, there is no practical stealth in this game.

You can sneak around all you want, but my perception is that you look like an idiot to all of the others who run by you and kill what you were sneaking up on, or sneaking past.

Korah_Eaglecry

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This is what happens when you take a Single Player Game with an immense following and throw it into an MMO market.

Those who played the SPs are going to follow it expecting every aspect of it to somehow easily transfer over to an MMO.

They have no true understanding that to make a game work in a way that would allow thousands of people to play the same game at one time. Means that some of the Single Player aspects need to be thrown away or reworked and introduced at a later time.

I remember when I played Daggerfall how much I wished it was an MMO. The game world felt kinda lonely single player.

As I felt in Morrowind and Skyrim. Im a huge fan of the franchise. And I love the Single Player games. I can admit that without them being a franchise of SPs we wouldnt have the deep and rich world of Nirn at all. Single Player paved the way for this MMO.

But I fear a lot of fans of the Franchise will not be able to adjust and will continue to demand for things that arent inherent of an MMO. Simply because its Elder Scrolls.

driosketch

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This is what happens when you take a Single Player Game with an immense following and throw it into an MMO market.

Those who played the SPs are going to follow it expecting every aspect of it to somehow easily transfer over to an MMO.

They have no true understanding that to make a game work in a way that would allow thousands of people to play the same game at one time. Means that some of the Single Player aspects need to be thrown away or reworked and introduced at a later time.

I remember when I played Daggerfall how much I wished it was an MMO. The game world felt kinda lonely single player.

This was kind of me as well.

Gedalya

Viiqupaen wrote: »

When I bought this game I was so looking forward to something that remotely matched the descriptions of it that the creators visualized in all of the hype-up videos.
First, this combat system is whack. It's nothing unique at all. It would be unique if it followed how combat functioned in the other TES games, but it's not - same buttons can be pressed, but the combat is bland and no different than any other *** generic moneytank MMO out there.

There's no crime. When a fan thinks of The Elder Scrolls, they recall in their minds all the choices they've made throughout their games that essentially make their characters interesting. There needs to be law and crime to really make this a good TES game. There is no morality or heroic / dastardly flavor to the game without a law force that players can either ignore and face the consequences or adhere to. Honestly, I felt like such a boss when I could slip poisons in the pockets of random NPCs. Why can't we have these basic TES character functions? I don't know about you, but I miss my hand-to-hand skill. I miss what sneaking once was. All of these little things are what gave the TES universe flavor. Now all we have is PvE mob grinding, questing, and PvP.

I thought this was going to be something different. I thought TES:O would be the game that broke the records by bringing the Nirn to life with the lore of the TES cultures all to be explored by the player and their friends. But that's not what we got as all. This isn't anything like the TES series. This game is essentially any other MMO out there, but using TES skins and sprites and characters. The world is broken and looks bleak and terrible. The items and little things one could pick up or examine in houses and inns and around the universe in all previous TES games have been shoddily replaced with the occasional vase or glass bottle that can't even be picked up. There's no life in this game. It's a dry quest-to-quest experience that I have seen for the many years I've been gaming. This is nothing new, and I'm very let down.

So what I want to know is if anything is changing on this front. Are there changes planned to make this game more like the TES universe we miss? I don't want to see TES:O turn into a clone of pretty much every other MMO out there, and I'm sure I'm not alone!

You sir have earned a 'Lol'. Congratulations.

Pretext

Elder Scrolls went to war with the Daedra of Online Game Design. It lost.

But we still have a really great game, just not Skyrim online.

driosketch

Pretext wrote: »

Elder Scrolls went to war with the Daedra of Online Game Design. It lost.

But we still have a really great game, just not Skyrim online.

To be fair, Skyrim is also very unlike the other Elder Scroll games in the series.

Ted_Mosby_Architect

How would the combat be unique if it followed the other Elder Scrolls games? That would not be unique at all. Do you even know what unique means?

Crime is one of the first things they will be addressing so i don't know what "hype" videos you've been watching.

Of course you can't have the full immersion of the single player series because it's an MMO. There's no way they can put in those systems that would make it anywhere close to the ES single player series. (Note: MMO and SINGLE PLAYER. There's a reason why they are TWO DIFFERENT GENRES.)

If you are just looking for ways to not like this game, you'll hate it. If you don't go actively looking for the awesomeness and just the depth that this game has to offer, then I guess you'll never enjoy it. If you've played other MMO's, you would notice that this game has FAR more immersion than most MMOs.

Pelerin2014

I think it looks, feels and plays a lot like an Elder Scrolls game - there just happen to be other players around and content that requires you to group with them - because it's also an MMO.

daveraab16_ESO

Ted_Mosby_Architect wrote: »

Of course you can't have the full immersion of the single player series because it's an MMO. There's no way they can put in those systems that would make it anywhere close to the ES single player series. (Note: MMO and SINGLE PLAYER. There's a reason why they are TWO DIFFERENT GENRES.)

This is an often posited theory, but its just lazy thinking. MMO and Single player are not genres as you say they are features. MMO just means a game that includes a very large number of players online, single player is a game for a single player, these features say nothing about the genre the game belongs to. People seem to be under the belief that the only way to build a massive online game is the WoW, EQ model. This is of course as ridiculous as saying the only way to build a single player game is the Doom/quake model.

The fact is they could of started with the core Elder scrolls games and come up with a way to make it work in an online environment. They could of preserved the open sandbox nature of the world, they could of upped the scale enough or come up with other ways to make the game feel less crowded, they could of had crime and punishment, a purely skill based advancement system, an activity based progression rather than a quest based progression. They could even have had the same combat more or less if they had decided that was more important than showing 100 people on screen at the same time. They didn't, instead they started with WoW or DAoC and worked out how to make it look a bit more elder scroll like.

The result is okay if you like MMORPGs in the WoW genre. But even then lets face it, its not great by any means.

Viiqupaen

It's the same world and the same controls, yeah. It's still just a shell of a game. It's impossible to walk around the world without thinking how empty it is. There are NPCs and characters but nothing to really attract people to exploring the little corners of the world. I just miss that. I guess I didn't expect that TES would be warped in such a disappointing way.

Fact I understand: it's a new game; not even officially released. I know. That's why I bought the game. That's why I'm going to be a paying subscriber. I'm clinging onto the hope that Zenimax won't screw up this opportunity to flesh out an amazing MMO out of what we have, and simply worried because of the way things seem to be going.

Laura

too funny

Viiqupaen

daveraab16_ESO wrote: »

Ted_Mosby_Architect wrote: »

Of course you can't have the full immersion of the single player series because it's an MMO. There's no way they can put in those systems that would make it anywhere close to the ES single player series. (Note: MMO and SINGLE PLAYER. There's a reason why they are TWO DIFFERENT GENRES.)

This is an often posited theory, but its just lazy thinking. MMO and Single player are not genres as you say they are features. MMO just means a game that includes a very large number of players online, single player is a game for a single player, these features say nothing about the genre the game belongs to. People seem to be under the belief that the only way to build a massive online game is the WoW, EQ model. This is of course as ridiculous as saying the only way to build a single player game is the Doom/quake model.

The fact is they could of started with the core Elder scrolls games and come up with a way to make it work in an online environment. They could of preserved the open sandbox nature of the world, they could of upped the scale enough or come up with other ways to make the game feel less crowded, they could of had crime and punishment, a purely skill based advancement system, an activity based progression rather than a quest based progression. They could even have had the same combat more or less if they had decided that was more important than showing 100 people on screen at the same time. They didn't, instead they started with WoW or DAoC and worked out how to make it look a bit more elder scroll like.

The result is okay if you like MMORPGs in the WoW genre. But even then lets face it, its not great by any means.

This is what I'm trying to say.

Viiqupaen

Laura wrote: »

too funny

I'm not trying to be funny. Sorry if I can't accept the game for how it is. I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts.
This franchise has a large cult following defending this MMO's soft spots. Comments like this make it incredibly hard to get serious answers when I have honest comments and questions about the state of the game.

Laura

Viiqupaen wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

too funny

I'm not trying to be funny. Sorry if I can't accept the game for how it is. I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts.
This franchise has a large cult following defending this MMO's soft spots. Comments like this make it incredibly hard to get serious answers when I have honest comments and questions about the state of the game.

Yeah I'm a part of that following since Arena and I can smell a skybopper post froma mile away. It could use some additions but there are certain things that need to be done to accommodate a large quantity of people. The only thing it really needs is a crime system. MMOs evolve. Enjoy it for what it is and take heart in knowing it only gets better.

Laura

driosketch wrote: »

Pretext wrote: »

Elder Scrolls went to war with the Daedra of Online Game Design. It lost.

But we still have a really great game, just not Skyrim online.

To be fair, Skyrim is also very unlike the other Elder Scroll games in the series.

what this guy said. I think skyrim and oblivion was more of a bastardizing of the franchise than this game. (though I accepted it and still love them for what they are) if us old pups can accept change why can't you?

driosketch

Laura wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Pretext wrote: »

Elder Scrolls went to war with the Daedra of Online Game Design. It lost.

But we still have a really great game, just not Skyrim online.

To be fair, Skyrim is also very unlike the other Elder Scroll games in the series.

what this guy said. I think skyrim and oblivion was more of a bastardizing of the franchise than this game. (though I accepted it and still love them for what they are)

Ditto

kitsinni

LOL you called the combat system whack ... hello 1995 rap video lingo!

LoneWalker

I'm a huge fan of the single player TES , and i'm loving this MMO!
Already addicted. I didn't close my eyes to it's flaws( it has many ) but it has great potential! Things may and will change. Good stuff takes time.

Inversus

Generic combat.
I think the skills system is reasonably unique, and it mixes TES combat with tab target - half and half.

There's no crime.
They have said that this will be one of there first updates.

I miss my hand-to-hand skill. I miss what sneaking once was.
I'd have thought we'd see sneaking improvements in the future, if not only with morality system additions.
They are going to be adding in weapon skill lines, so maybe unarmed combat.

Are there changes planned to make this game more like the TES universe we miss?
Every 4-6 weeks there will be updates, already we're hearing about thieves guild, morality and dark brotherhood like other TES games.

The world is broken and looks bleak and terrible.
Err, it looks quite nice if you turn your graphics up a little.

Ravinsild

Inversus wrote: »

The world is broken and looks bleak and terrible.
Err, it looks quite nice if you turn your graphics up a little.

Man, I can't tell you how beautiful the Aldmeri Dominion lands are. The jungles, forests and trees, green and lush and vibrant and wonderful. Wildlife sounds in the distance for realistic ambience (Weird bird sounds and wallops of monkey etc)

I can't get enough of it. That's why I joined AD, I was worried the other areas of the game were ugly. Perhaps this has been confirmed by that statement.

Ravinsild

Laura wrote: »

Viiqupaen wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

too funny

I'm not trying to be funny. Sorry if I can't accept the game for how it is. I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts.
This franchise has a large cult following defending this MMO's soft spots. Comments like this make it incredibly hard to get serious answers when I have honest comments and questions about the state of the game.

Yeah I'm a part of that following since Arena and I can smell a skybopper post froma mile away. It could use some additions but there are certain things that need to be done to accommodate a large quantity of people. The only thing it really needs is a crime system. MMOs evolve. Enjoy it for what it is and take heart in knowing it only gets better.

Unsure of what a Skybobber is, however I believe I have some insight into this phenomenon.

There are ELDER SCROLLS FANS and then there are SKYRIM fans.

I remember, before there ever was a Skyrim, that OBLIVION was the big huge game everyone was talking about.

I think the problem is the SKYRIM fans THINK they are Elder Scrolls fan, but they aren't. They're new fans all aboard the hype train and they don't want another Elder Scrolls game. They want Skyrim

Elder Scrolls fans appreciate the genre, like any Final Fantasy fan will appreciate each new game that comes out (if it's good, heard horribly things about FF13), then there are FF7 fanbois who say every FF game that isn't 7 is trash and are probably still waiting for FF7-2.

I really dislike this deluded fantasies from these Skyrim hype-train fanbois. I much prefer the actual Elder Scrolls fans, they seem more level headed and reasonable.

As for me? I'm an MMO fan, and I love this game. Never played an TES game in my life, but I DO love this game and I listen to every quest dialogue and I've been sniffing around the wikis for extra lore etc...