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Concerns About Tel Var Currency and Flower Satchels in the Imperial City
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ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭XperiencedTBAG wrote: »
Confirming this issue is simple. Just visit the Imperial City on the PlayStation EU server. You'll see a small group of players dominating the area, making it nearly impossible for others to farm effectively. It's not about a lack of interest; it's about a few players controlling the zone and resources. Check the Guild traders for further evidence of this monopoly.
I do not PvP, but I do not understand why you cannot log in on the character of the same alliance as this group of players and farm with them.0 -
wolfie1.0. wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »
you know that the best way to stop these people from these farms is to find them in IC and kill them right?
steal half their Tel Var from them and you cut production in half.
Sure, that’s a nice theory. But when these players control the entire Imperial City, they often roll in groups, making it nearly impossible for solo players or smaller groups to take them down. If you enter their territory, you’ll get harassed. It’s not as simple as just hunting them—you’re suggesting something like cutting mold off bread and expecting it to be edible. The problem runs deeper, and until significant changes are made, this unfair dominance will continue.
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On the contrary, your claim of 200K to 400K Tel Var per hour is directly relevant to how unfair and unbalanced you perceive IC to be. You're not off by a percentage here, you're off by a whole order of magnitude by PC EU standards.XperiencedTBAG wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »In stark contrast, farming Tel Var in the Imperial City, even under the bad conditions, nets around 200k-400k Tel Var per hour.
I'm having a hard time believing that anyone is farming 200K-400K Tel Var per hour consistently.
Some players have a monopoly status, essentially owning the server. If there is nobody else around, there's no competition, making it easier to farm large amounts of Tel Var. However, if there is competition, harassment can occur. This is based on experiences on the PlayStation EU server.
I often have the server to myself I've never even come close to that number. I too have a hard time seeing how it is possible.
The main point of this post was not about the amount of Tel Var you can earn per hour. The purpose was to highlight the unfair competition and to argue that flower satchels should be removed from the game. It seems like you missed that key point, and I doubt you're on the PlayStation EU server to experience it firsthand.
The main issue is on PS EU. How about you buy a PlayStation ESO copy and come see for yourself? We don't need to keep talking back and forth about it.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭XperiencedTBAG wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »
you know that the best way to stop these people from these farms is to find them in IC and kill them right?
steal half their Tel Var from them and you cut production in half.
Sure, that’s a nice theory. But when these players control the entire Imperial City, they often roll in groups, making it nearly impossible for solo players or smaller groups to take them down. If you enter their territory, you’ll get harassed. It’s not as simple as just hunting them—you’re suggesting something like cutting mold off bread and expecting it to be edible. The problem runs deeper, and until significant changes are made, this unfair dominance will continue.
With all the other ways to get materials I still don't see this as creating a monopoly type situation. That includes just tagging along with the group with a character from the same alliance.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Right near the top of the list of things this game doesn't need is less reason to go to the Imperial City. I would say we need more reason to go outside of these events.
I'm also not sure how a monopoly can occur. If you have a character that is the same faction just tag along and get your telvar. Otherwise drop down into the sewers for a while and find a good circle to run or try to stay out of the district the group is in if you want to farm the city. Usually when a group is running if you stay away from the flag and the boss you are safe in a district.
And the opening post seems to forget about surveys. Surveys can amass all kinds of good things fairly quick.
PvP takes a lot of potions so having a PvP source to generate ingredients just makes good sense. If those ingredients end in the market that is good for others that also need potions.
Most of the commenters on this post didn't even know what a flower satchel was, so the loss would be minimal.
As for how a monopoly can occur, it's simple: on PS EU, a few players dominate the Imperial City and harass anyone who tries to farm there. Suggesting people just "tag along" or stay away from the flag and boss is naive. Drop down into the sewers and you'll find the same issue.
PvP does take a lot of potions, and a PvP source for ingredients makes sense. However, when a small group controls that source, it hurts everyone else. If you don't believe it, buy a PlayStation ESO copy and see for yourself.0 -
XperiencedTBAG wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »
you know that the best way to stop these people from these farms is to find them in IC and kill them right?
steal half their Tel Var from them and you cut production in half.
Sure, that’s a nice theory. But when these players control the entire Imperial City, they often roll in groups, making it nearly impossible for solo players or smaller groups to take them down. If you enter their territory, you’ll get harassed. It’s not as simple as just hunting them—you’re suggesting something like cutting mold off bread and expecting it to be edible. The problem runs deeper, and until significant changes are made, this unfair dominance will continue.
With all the other ways to get materials I still don't see this as creating a monopoly type situation. That includes just tagging along with the group with a character from the same alliance.
If you think tagging along with a group from the same alliance will solve the problem, you’re wrong. The monopoly on PS EU is real and brutal. These players dominate the Imperial City, harass anyone who dares to farm there, and will even switch to a different alliance just to kill you. You might not see it as a monopoly, but that’s because you’re not dealing with it. Maybe buy a PlayStation ESO copy and see for yourself.0 -
ESO_player123 wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »
Confirming this issue is simple. Just visit the Imperial City on the PlayStation EU server. You'll see a small group of players dominating the area, making it nearly impossible for others to farm effectively. It's not about a lack of interest; it's about a few players controlling the zone and resources. Check the Guild traders for further evidence of this monopoly.
I do not PvP, but I do not understand why you cannot log in on the character of the same alliance as this group of players and farm with them.
Check the response I gave earlier.0 -
Ishtarknows✭✭✭✭✭I don't have a dog in this race as I don't play on the mentioned server, but just wanted to say that this is another example of one server having a perceived problem and players expecting changes to be made that will impact ALL servers, even those without said problem. Why can't Xbox or PC still have their flowers as they have now?
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it's not a problem worth discussing.
Of course, you don't think it's a problem worth discussing—you're on a PC server and aren't experiencing it firsthand. On the PS EU server, it's a significant issue that impacts fair gameplay. If you were dealing with the constant harassment and monopolistic behavior, you'd understand why it's a big deal. Maybe get a PlayStation ESO copy and see the problem for yourself before dismissing it.1 -
Ishtarknows wrote: »I don't have a dog in this race as I don't play on the mentioned server, but just wanted to say that this is another example of one server having a perceived problem and players expecting changes to be made that will impact ALL servers, even those without said problem. Why can't Xbox or PC still have their flowers as they have now?
I understand your perspective, but the issue on the PS EU server is severe enough that it warrants discussion and potential changes. It's not just a "perceived" problem—it's affecting fair gameplay for many players. While it might seem unfair to impact all servers, sometimes broader changes are necessary to address significant issues. However, a more targeted solution, like server-specific adjustments, could be a better compromise. Xbox and PC servers could maintain their current systems while addressing the monopoly on PS EU.
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Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭On the contrary, there should be more sources of alchemy materials, aside from overworld farming. I don't think we should be making alchemy resources even more rare than they are.
We can buy Archival Alchemy Satchets in the Infinite Archive, but each one costs 3000 Archival Fortunes — compared to the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel, which costs 500 Tel Var Stones, it is by far more efficient in terms of cost and currency accumulation rate to farm for the Parcel, rather than the Satchet.
Granted, one of the drawbacks is that you could lose your Tel Var Stones if you are killed. Most people don't get to farm the IC bosses so easily — that zone is designed for PvP, after all. And, naturally you gain more Tel Var Stones the more you carry (due to the multiplier), as well as earn more Archival Fortunes the higher the Arc you reach. High risk carries high reward.
But, I think the price of the Archival Alchemy Satchet should be dropped to 500 Archival Fortunes regardless, to match the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel at 500 Tel Var Stones. That would make alchemy resources easy to purchase for PvE and PvP players alike.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).6 -
Erickson9610 wrote: »On the contrary, there should be more sources of alchemy materials, aside from overworld farming. I don't think we should be making alchemy resources even more rare than they are.
We can buy Archival Alchemy Satchets in the Infinite Archive, but each one costs 3000 Archival Fortunes — compared to the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel, which costs 500 Tel Var Stones, it is by far more efficient in terms of cost and currency accumulation rate to farm for the Parcel, rather than the Satchet.
Granted, one of the drawbacks is that you could lose your Tel Var Stones if you are killed. Most people don't get to farm the IC bosses so easily — that zone is designed for PvP, after all. And, naturally you gain more Tel Var Stones the more you carry (due to the multiplier), as well as earn more Archival Fortunes the higher the Arc you reach. High risk carries high reward.
But, I think the price of the Archival Alchemy Satchet should be dropped to 500 Archival Fortunes regardless, to match the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel at 500 Tel Var Stones. That would make alchemy resources easy to purchase for PvE and PvP players alike.
That’s a great point. Maybe developers should add the possibility to buy flowers with alliance points.
The current disparity between the cost of Archival Alchemy Satchels and Waxed Apothecary’s Parcels is significant. Dropping the price of the Archival Alchemy Satchel to 500 Archival Fortunes, matching the 500 Tel Var Stones cost of the Waxed Apothecary’s Parcel, would make these resources more accessible for both PvE and PvP players.1 -
XSTRONG✭✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »On the contrary, there should be more sources of alchemy materials, aside from overworld farming. I don't think we should be making alchemy resources even more rare than they are.
We can buy Archival Alchemy Satchets in the Infinite Archive, but each one costs 3000 Archival Fortunes — compared to the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel, which costs 500 Tel Var Stones, it is by far more efficient in terms of cost and currency accumulation rate to farm for the Parcel, rather than the Satchet.
Granted, one of the drawbacks is that you could lose your Tel Var Stones if you are killed. Most people don't get to farm the IC bosses so easily — that zone is designed for PvP, after all. And, naturally you gain more Tel Var Stones the more you carry (due to the multiplier), as well as earn more Archival Fortunes the higher the Arc you reach. High risk carries high reward.
But, I think the price of the Archival Alchemy Satchet should be dropped to 500 Archival Fortunes regardless, to match the Waxed Apothecary's Parcel at 500 Tel Var Stones. That would make alchemy resources easy to purchase for PvE and PvP players alike.
Infinite Archive, 2 whole Arcs cleared with 1 special room, 1 Marauder killed, 1 Treasue Goblin killed, 1 daily quest done around 40min solo
- Total archival fortune earned 5300
- 5 bugloss
- 5 butterfly wing
- 5 dragonthorn
- 5 mountain flower
- 5 mudcrab chitin
- 5 nightshade
- 5 torchbug thorax
- 5 wormwood
1 Boss kill in IC with 4x
- 6 beetle scuttle
- 24 blessed thistle
- 27 blue entoloma
- 39 bugloss
- 21 butterfly wing
- 3 clam gall
- 54 columbine
- 9 cornflower
- 33 dragonthorn
- 9 emetic russula
- 21 fleshfly larva
- 51 imp stool
- 24 ladys smock
- 6 luminous russula
- 63 mountain flower
- 12 namiras root
- 15 nightshade
- 27 nirnroot
- 12 scrib jelly
- 12 spider egg
- 6 stinkhorn
- 3 violet coprinus
- 42 water hyacinth
- 12 white cap
- 12 wormwood
Farm mobs for "10 min" in IC start with 0 telwar
- 6 beetle scuttle
- 15 blue entoloma
- 9 bugloss
- 6 butterfly wing
- 24 columbine
- 12 cornflower
- 12 dragonthorn
- 12 fleshfly larva
- 12 imp stool
- 9 ladys smock
- 6 luminous russula
- 15 mountain flower
- 15 nightshade
- 6 nirnroot
- 3 spider egg
- 3 violet coprinus
- 15 water hyacinth
- 3 white cap
- 15 wormwood
If you have 100.000 Archival Fortunes youre lucky if you get 100 bugloss.
100.000 Archival Fortunes requires alot of effort to get and are very time consuming.4 -
Addressing Key Issues in the Controlled Area
Point 1: Financial Interests and Market Control
The individuals controlling the area are doing so to protect a lucrative business involving real-life money. They convert gold obtained from flower sales into real-life currency. By extracting flowers from the sewers, this practice is disrupted, impacting their revenue stream.
Point 2: Market Manipulation and Intimidation Tactics
These individuals use the gold to influence traders in Mournhold, leveraging their widespread guild presence to dominate the flower market. They employ aggressive tactics, including kicking out and bullying anyone who does not adhere to their rules, thereby maintaining their upper hand and control over the market.2 -
GuuMoonRyoung✭✭✭✭You know what would be a better solution? If ZOS put a hard cap on the price of each item at which players can register the items in guild store. To make it sweeter, they could implement a trading faction, that players would have to join and level through to trade items.0
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Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a good amount of experience in IC. In particular, I have experience doing the boss circuit for Tel-Var stones. I also have experience in competing with other groups that are in IC. In particular, I have experience in dealing with the cartels that arise for harvesting Tel-Var stones.
It can arise that a particular team of players uses the IC boss spawns as a way to get Tel-Var stones. The number of stones gained, as indicated by the original poster, is a possibility whether it is by a single player or group.
Firstly, the idea that something should be changed because there is a competition aspect that is unfair doesn't necessarily work for a PvP game mode. There are plenty of things that may seem unfair, but those things could also be naturally arising because of the competition that happens between good players and bad players. This is a matter of perspective.
The idea that there is a monopoly has been given, but one has to think that projecting such economics onto a PvP zone is appropriate for that idea to start to work. It's also the case that anyone can start a group and go into the Imperial City. Maybe that seems preposterous or too hard, but I've watched players start the game and do exceptional things within a very short amount of time. It just takes the right mind and determination to create a group that goes in and challenges the monopoly.
But let's not make too much about that point. Let's just assume that it's too hard to do such a thing and it's too unfair. And let's also detach the idea that this is all what happens in PvP. And let's also say this applies to the point about new players too.
The first solution given is that a way to spend the Tel-Var stones is taken away. But only a specific item for purchasing was targeted. Wouldn't this move just cause the Tel-Var cartel to target a different item from the store? It could also be the case that players try to create something of a black-market, if they are forced to look for new ways to use their stones, by offering players BOP items via the process of transfer of stones by killing them in the PvP area. Like monopolies, aren't black markets frightening?
Additionally, if gaining Tel-Var stones is made less good in such a heavy-handed way, then isn't it made less good for the non-cartel and the new players as well? Rather than ensuring that the less enfranchised get something, the solution just ensures that everyone get's less.
The second solution is interesting since there are already rules in the game against harassment. And I'm definitely empathetic to this idea since there are harassers who go out of their way not to play PvP in an organic way, but to target others. And this applies to the later made real money trading point. There are already rules against using the game in such ways. Targeting flower satchels takes away from the game unnecessarily in this case because all there needs to be is enforcement of rules. Harassment and real money trading could be solved quickly with enough enforcement of rules.Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel3 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭XperiencedTBAG wrote: »The individuals controlling the area are doing so to protect a lucrative business involving real-life money.
If you have proof about real-money operations, just report it.
Seller accounts would be banned, you horrible problem is solved.XperiencedTBAG wrote: »These individuals use the gold to influence traders in Mournhold, leveraging their widespread guild presence to dominate the flower market. They employ aggressive tactics, including kicking out and bullying anyone who does not adhere to their rules, thereby maintaining their upper hand and control over the market.
What is this about?! Just to dramatize your IC problem?
If somebody bully you - you report them and blacklist them.
Kicking out may be from their guild. Don't be in a guild with toxic people. As I see, you have your own guild: hire your trader and trade. What's a problem? Who can control you here?
I see you try to picture your opponents as some kind of criminal syndicate. It looks silly.
If they break the rules - you report them, they are banned.
If they don't break the rules, you may compete in game.
Make it simple.
The main pain problem in your posts is about IC, I see. You're a guildmaster. What's a problem to create a PvP wing in your guild if you want to farm IC so much?
You're trying to change the in-game vendors instead, because of IC farm... sounds very strange.
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Blood_again wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »The individuals controlling the area are doing so to protect a lucrative business involving real-life money.
If you have proof about real-money operations, just report it.
Seller accounts would be banned, you horrible problem is solved.XperiencedTBAG wrote: »These individuals use the gold to influence traders in Mournhold, leveraging their widespread guild presence to dominate the flower market. They employ aggressive tactics, including kicking out and bullying anyone who does not adhere to their rules, thereby maintaining their upper hand and control over the market.
What is this about?! Just to dramatize your IC problem?
If somebody bully you - you report them and blacklist them.
Kicking out may be from their guild. Don't be in a guild with toxic people. As I see, you have your own guild: hire your trader and trade. What's a problem? Who can control you here?
I see you try to picture your opponents as some kind of criminal syndicate. It looks silly.
If they break the rules - you report them, they are banned.
If they don't break the rules, you may compete in game.
Make it simple.
The main pain problem in your posts is about IC, I see. You're a guildmaster. What's a problem to create a PvP wing in your guild if you want to farm IC so much?
You're trying to change the in-game vendors instead, because of IC farm... sounds very strange.
Well, if it were as easy as you say, everything would be perfect. If you read my post, you’d see the specific issues I mentioned. I don’t have any problem with people farming. They can do what they want, as long as they respect the game’s terms of service.0 -
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Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭XperiencedTBAG wrote: »Well, if it were as easy as you say, everything would be perfect. If you read my post, you’d see the specific issues I mentioned. I don’t have any problem with people farming. They can do what they want, as long as they respect the game’s terms of service.
Thank you, I surely did read the topic carefully and saw all this "yes, but" game you played.
Once again, if somebody breaks ToS, you report them, you apply prooves to your report ticket, you get the result. SImple.
If you don't report them or you don't have a proof they break the ToS... Well, may be they don't?
Anyway, your topic is targeted on changing the TV vebdor assortment.
I doubt that making a discussion "Change the vendor because some people break the ToS in IC" on forum is how the ToS management works in this game.
If I were you, I would just report the perpetrators for every breaking the ToS you caught them on.3 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uh, no thanks. Apothecary Satchels are the best way for PvPers to get their mats for crafting potions. If you don't like the fact that some people are farming Tel Var effectively, get a group of players together that can mop the floor with them. They'll go away.5 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭14k telwar for killing one boss, if you control IC you can easily get 200k telwar within 1 hour.
Bosses spawn every 15 minutes. Within one hour, you have 6 x 4 = 24 bosses available. I believe the exact drop size is 13.7K, but let's round it to up to 14K. 24 x 14 = 336K Tel Var. The following is what achieving that number would entail:XperiencedTBAG wrote: »Regarding Tel Var farming rates, it's indeed challenging on busy servers, but with the right strategies and during certain times, it's possible to reach those high numbers, even if it's not common.- Your faction owns IC throughout the period.
- You're alone farming bosses.
- You spend 2.5 minutes per boss.
You've either benefitted from an IC so empty that you've been able to do the above, or you made a rough calculation about something you don't actually do in order to support your argument.
In the first case, there was no opposition, no cartel, and you benefitted from an empty server. You took a huge risk by carrying that much Tel Var without banking. Banking would have taken time. You got lucky no one else flipped flags, nor did they steal a boss from you on the opposite side of the map, nor did they gank you.
In the second case you forgot to factor in the practical matters. Tel Var are shared between players partaking in a kill. You can take out 336K Tel Var via boss farming per instance of IC, not per player working there. If your faction owns the city and you have time to do bosses as they spawn, time to bank, and time to keep holding the city, there's more than one of you. The share for individual players gets cut to a fraction as a result.
In practice, I agree up to ~100K Tel Var per hour can happen, but it's completely unpredictable. It means you live in IC and were lucky to be there at the right time.
I can't speak to the statistics for PS EU. It sounds to me like it's simply deserted.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)4 -
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Uh, no thanks. Apothecary Satchels are the best way for PvPers to get their mats for crafting potions. If you don't like the fact that some people are farming Tel Var effectively, get a group of players together that can mop the floor with them. They'll go away.
So why can't we buy flowers with Alliance Points then? This isn't about liking or disliking the fact that some people are farming Tel Var effectively. It's about addressing the imbalance and making the game fairer for everyone. Buying flowers with Alliance Points would provide an alternative method for players to obtain the necessary materials for crafting potions without having to deal with the current monopolistic behavior in the Imperial City. Let's find a solution that works for all players, not just those who dominate Tel Var farming.1 -
Blood_again wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »Well, if it were as easy as you say, everything would be perfect. If you read my post, you’d see the specific issues I mentioned. I don’t have any problem with people farming. They can do what they want, as long as they respect the game’s terms of service.
Thank you, I surely did read the topic carefully and saw all this "yes, but" game you played.
Once again, if somebody breaks ToS, you report them, you apply prooves to your report ticket, you get the result. SImple.
If you don't report them or you don't have a proof they break the ToS... Well, may be they don't?
Anyway, your topic is targeted on changing the TV vebdor assortment.
I doubt that making a discussion "Change the vendor because some people break the ToS in IC" on forum is how the ToS management works in this game.
If I were you, I would just report the perpetrators for every breaking the ToS you caught them on.
Okay, fair point. But it’s the same as dealing with bots. What is the point of a report if the outcome remains unchanged? The whole idea here was to bring about a discussion. I’ve talked with many people, and their response or solution is always to block, report, and put a bandage on the issue. However, that doesn’t solve anything in the long run. The core problem persists, and it affects the overall player experience. We need to look at more permanent solutions rather than temporary fixes.0 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭XperiencedTBAG wrote: »So why can't we buy flowers with Alliance Points then? This isn't about liking or disliking the fact that some people are farming Tel Var effectively. It's about addressing the imbalance and making the game fairer for everyone. Buying flowers with Alliance Points would provide an alternative method for players to obtain the necessary materials for crafting potions without having to deal with the current monopolistic behavior in the Imperial City. Let's find a solution that works for all players, not just those who dominate Tel Var farming.
If the suggestion is to add alchemy bags to AP vendors too, I'm totally support it.
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Blood_again wrote: »XperiencedTBAG wrote: »So why can't we buy flowers with Alliance Points then? This isn't about liking or disliking the fact that some people are farming Tel Var effectively. It's about addressing the imbalance and making the game fairer for everyone. Buying flowers with Alliance Points would provide an alternative method for players to obtain the necessary materials for crafting potions without having to deal with the current monopolistic behavior in the Imperial City. Let's find a solution that works for all players, not just those who dominate Tel Var farming.
If the suggestion is to add alchemy bags to AP vendors too, I'm totally support it.
Well, this could be one of the ways to balance it. We also need to find a way where farming flowers would be beneficial. Alliance Points are not a particularly good currency at the moment, so introducing more uses for them could improve the overall balance and player experience.0