Arcanist Execute now and the whole 'balancing' thing

Skjaldbjorn

Galeriano2 wrote: »

There is a bug with the set that causes multiple players to get the explosion proc from the same instance of 20 stacks. Each explosion should be happening for 1 player which is not the case currently. There are sometimes 4 explosions happening at the same time.

I'm going to guess this occurs if multiple dots from multiple people trigger the 20th stack at exactly the same time - something super likely with beam. The same thing can actually happen with Null Arca and hit multiple targets despite it being a single target proc set.

Aurielle

pklemming wrote: »

Thinking about it, it may actually be doable to use a scribing skill for crux next patch. I don't like the idea, but with the numbers being upped on scribing, it may be a viable alternative, but still DOES NOT give us an execute.

I’ve made a bow proc build on live with Escalating Runeblades as my spammable/crux builder and Poison Injection as my execute. It’s not terrible, based on the limited testing I’ve done so far in IC, but it still doesn’t really feel like an Arcanist. When the scribing updates go live, I’ll try a scribed spammable instead to see how it compares.

But I totally agree, feels like the execute nerf to Flail was an unnecessary change for the sake of change.

Xorious

pklemming wrote: »

Necro has been able to generate ulti out of combat for as long as I can remember, and NOW it is unbalanced. I'm not even going to touch the Blastbones fiasco.

I'm pretty sure the new Necromancer class set, from IA in the patch notes, is the root cause for this change.

*Corpseburster – Necromancer, Grave Lord

2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 657 Critical Chance
5 – Consuming a corpse causes the corpse to explode, dealing Magic Damage to enemies within 5 meters, increasing by 10% for each Grave Lord ability slotted. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

There is actually quite a few changes being discussed in this thread, that are easier to understand after reading through all of the patch notes.. some of which seem to pertain to itemization and new sets that are about to roll out. Whether or not we agree with those changes...

YandereGirlfriend

Beam also should not proc the set at all for the same reasoning that lead to Jabs no longer proccing the set; it is double-dipping into damage type categories in a way that is clearly not intended.

Xorious wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Necro has been able to generate ulti out of combat for as long as I can remember, and NOW it is unbalanced. I'm not even going to touch the Blastbones fiasco.

I'm pretty sure the new Necromancer class set, from IA in the patch notes, is the root cause for this change.

*Corpseburster – Necromancer, Grave Lord

2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 657 Critical Chance
5 – Consuming a corpse causes the corpse to explode, dealing Magic Damage to enemies within 5 meters, increasing by 10% for each Grave Lord ability slotted. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

There is actually quite a few changes being discussed in this thread, that are easier to understand after reading through all of the patch notes.. some of which seem to pertain to itemization and new sets that are about to roll out. Whether or not we agree with those changes...

Was this even an issue, though? Like Necros are basically a dead class in PvE for non-tanks/EC bot and then they are even more of a dead class in PvP. Certainly, I have never heard of anyone complain about this.

Meanwhile... Nightblades retain their ability to proc their potion -> ult passive out of combat. But, they are the golden child class, so... exceptions will always be made for them, I guess.

Vulkunne

Quite frankly I liked the execute feature. I agree the healing conditions needed to be corrected but that execute was gold. Sad to see it go. Was really useful.

Won't be the last thing to go either.

Vahndamme

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Vahndamme wrote: »

I agree, ZoS does not listen to playerbase at all. The adjusted jabs animation nobody wanted. All the power shifted to back end of combat and jabs totally losing their identity together with Burning Light. I liked the class a lot better before the change.. it still deals a truck ton of damage but only on execute really ^^ it's way less fun to play, jabs was fun, more versatility tbh. Now it is truly just beam and that's it. About the other classes I don't know the specifics, but I do know that the numbers and nerfs and such always been super random.. like nobody asks for it, nobody wants it and still it goes live. And we keep going. Honestly I'm baffled at how this game survives with this kind of mentality.

I know PvP lost a big part of population for a long time. The big groups are gone and I doubt they'll be back. Only a matter of time till PvE also loses big and then what?

Changes to jabs were actually requested by people. Not in a this specific current form but overall before changes happened templar in PvE basically became a prisoner of jabs because nothing else could beat that ability and it even reached the point of absurdity where just pure jabs spam was able to go over 100k DPS which is comparable to like 110k DPS these days. Many people considered templar a boring class because of it.

"A boring class because of it" but who cried for these changes? All the non-templars probably... that are now enjoying Arcanist which has filled that gap of really strong cleave due to a strong ability aka Fatecarver... The class ain't hard to play either so it also falls in the ball park of "old templar" ... Can you imagine an Arcanist without Fatecarver? I guess the answer is no.. AND it released like that, drew in a lot of people and people still 'enjoying' it. Why did jabs need that change? People enjoyed it. It should've been tweaked a little and given a proper animation and it was fine. But somehow they are fine with Templars just being ezpz beam right now and nothing else to bring. And Arcanists to be a really good all arounder class that is fairly easy to pick up. ZoS isn't able to "tweak" things it seems, either they destroy it or they make it busted.

YandereGirlfriend

Vahndamme wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Vahndamme wrote: »

I agree, ZoS does not listen to playerbase at all. The adjusted jabs animation nobody wanted. All the power shifted to back end of combat and jabs totally losing their identity together with Burning Light. I liked the class a lot better before the change.. it still deals a truck ton of damage but only on execute really ^^ it's way less fun to play, jabs was fun, more versatility tbh. Now it is truly just beam and that's it. About the other classes I don't know the specifics, but I do know that the numbers and nerfs and such always been super random.. like nobody asks for it, nobody wants it and still it goes live. And we keep going. Honestly I'm baffled at how this game survives with this kind of mentality.

I know PvP lost a big part of population for a long time. The big groups are gone and I doubt they'll be back. Only a matter of time till PvE also loses big and then what?

Changes to jabs were actually requested by people. Not in a this specific current form but overall before changes happened templar in PvE basically became a prisoner of jabs because nothing else could beat that ability and it even reached the point of absurdity where just pure jabs spam was able to go over 100k DPS which is comparable to like 110k DPS these days. Many people considered templar a boring class because of it.

"A boring class because of it" but who cried for these changes? All the non-templars probably... that are now enjoying Arcanist which has filled that gap of really strong cleave due to a strong ability aka Fatecarver... The class ain't hard to play either so it also falls in the ball park of "old templar" ... Can you imagine an Arcanist without Fatecarver? I guess the answer is no.. AND it released like that, drew in a lot of people and people still 'enjoying' it. Why did jabs need that change? People enjoyed it. It should've been tweaked a little and given a proper animation and it was fine. But somehow they are fine with Templars just being ezpz beam right now and nothing else to bring. And Arcanists to be a really good all arounder class that is fairly easy to pick up. ZoS isn't able to "tweak" things it seems, either they destroy it or they make it busted.

Jabs needed to be reigned-in because it was ridiculously overpowered vs. the effort required to play it.

There were like 120k parses using just Jabs spam. Yes, pressing literally one button.

People complained about it in PvP as well for similar reasons.

So nobody asked for the animation change but they needed to reign-in the power of that skill. Unfortunately, the power that was removed from Jabs wasn't really reinvested into the rest of the class, they just buffed JBeam and now Templar is back in the same boat just with a different skill.

Meanwhile, completely useless skills like Sun Shield just lay around collecting dust in all game modes....

D4rk

I didn't liked the change, yeah...

PvP affecting PvE as always...

Now Arcanist doesn't have an execute. Perfect.

necro_the_crafter

D4rk wrote: »

I didn't liked the change, yeah...

PvP affecting PvE as always...

Now Arcanist doesn't have an execute. Perfect.

PvP have nothing to do with that. In ZoS own words this change was made to make both morphs a viable option. One as spammable and other as Burst. And problem was that spammable version was actually outdamaging burst version with its exectute scaling making it a go to choise every time at every build.


When i first picked up arcanist I already had thought about incoming nerfs, and make a few predictions:

1. Flail losing its aspects I was betting on healing at root to go away tho.
2. Beam damage depletes over distance.

I believe that beam should be targeted to not provide its damage for full range. Instead having one morph that :
1. deal its full damage to enemies in first 2/4 (0-11 m.) of ability range.
2. dealing 66% of damage to enemies at 3/4 (11-16m) of ability range
3. dealing 33% of damage to enemies at 4/4 (16-22m) of ability range
And another morph that is reverse of that, dealing max damage at max range and min damage melee, this way arcs would have one beam for range and one for meele, without having it cleave all throghtout its area. This change will require of arcs more precise positioning during fights as well as better stacking of adds by a tanks, and wouldn't change solo content by alot since arcs can pull for themselfs if needed to.

Its makes sense to me since jabs work kinda similar - dealing full damage to nearest target, and then lower to the rest of them.

Skjaldbjorn

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

D4rk wrote: »

I didn't liked the change, yeah...

PvP affecting PvE as always...

Now Arcanist doesn't have an execute. Perfect.

PvP have nothing to do with that. In ZoS own words this change was made to make both morphs a viable option. One as spammable and other as Burst. And problem was that spammable version was actually outdamaging burst version with its exectute scaling making it a go to choise every time at every build.


When i first picked up arcanist I already had thought about incoming nerfs, and make a few predictions:

1. Flail losing its aspects I was betting on healing at root to go away tho.
2. Beam damage depletes over distance.

I believe that beam should be targeted to not provide its damage for full range. Instead having one morph that :
1. deal its full damage to enemies in first 2/4 (0-11 m.) of ability range.
2. dealing 66% of damage to enemies at 3/4 (11-16m) of ability range
3. dealing 33% of damage to enemies at 4/4 (16-22m) of ability range
And another morph that is reverse of that, dealing max damage at max range and min damage melee, this way arcs would have one beam for range and one for meele, without having it cleave all throghtout its area. This change will require of arcs more precise positioning during fights as well as better stacking of adds by a tanks, and wouldn't change solo content by alot since arcs can pull for themselfs if needed to.

Its makes sense to me since jabs work kinda similar - dealing full damage to nearest target, and then lower to the rest of them.

That seems...complicated to the point of just being obnoxious. Just have its damage reduced for each target after the 1st.

LittlePinkDot

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

D4rk wrote: »

I didn't liked the change, yeah...

PvP affecting PvE as always...

Now Arcanist doesn't have an execute. Perfect.

PvP have nothing to do with that. In ZoS own words this change was made to make both morphs a viable option. One as spammable and other as Burst. And problem was that spammable version was actually outdamaging burst version with its exectute scaling making it a go to choise every time at every build.


When i first picked up arcanist I already had thought about incoming nerfs, and make a few predictions:

1. Flail losing its aspects I was betting on healing at root to go away tho.
2. Beam damage depletes over distance.

I believe that beam should be targeted to not provide its damage for full range. Instead having one morph that :
1. deal its full damage to enemies in first 2/4 (0-11 m.) of ability range.
2. dealing 66% of damage to enemies at 3/4 (11-16m) of ability range
3. dealing 33% of damage to enemies at 4/4 (16-22m) of ability range
And another morph that is reverse of that, dealing max damage at max range and min damage melee, this way arcs would have one beam for range and one for meele, without having it cleave all throghtout its area. This change will require of arcs more precise positioning during fights as well as better stacking of adds by a tanks, and wouldn't change solo content by alot since arcs can pull for themselfs if needed to.

Its makes sense to me since jabs work kinda similar - dealing full damage to nearest target, and then lower to the rest of them.

People were not just using it for the execute...they were using it because it generates crux. The tentacular dread morph consumes crux, so it competes with beam. You can't really slot both beam and tentacular dread because you won't have enough crux...impervious runeward heal needs crux too. You can't even heal properly without crux.

If they would buff runeblades, more people would use it to generate crux.

Galeriano2

Vahndamme wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Vahndamme wrote: »

I agree, ZoS does not listen to playerbase at all. The adjusted jabs animation nobody wanted. All the power shifted to back end of combat and jabs totally losing their identity together with Burning Light. I liked the class a lot better before the change.. it still deals a truck ton of damage but only on execute really ^^ it's way less fun to play, jabs was fun, more versatility tbh. Now it is truly just beam and that's it. About the other classes I don't know the specifics, but I do know that the numbers and nerfs and such always been super random.. like nobody asks for it, nobody wants it and still it goes live. And we keep going. Honestly I'm baffled at how this game survives with this kind of mentality.

I know PvP lost a big part of population for a long time. The big groups are gone and I doubt they'll be back. Only a matter of time till PvE also loses big and then what?

Changes to jabs were actually requested by people. Not in a this specific current form but overall before changes happened templar in PvE basically became a prisoner of jabs because nothing else could beat that ability and it even reached the point of absurdity where just pure jabs spam was able to go over 100k DPS which is comparable to like 110k DPS these days. Many people considered templar a boring class because of it.

"A boring class because of it" but who cried for these changes? All the non-templars probably... that are now enjoying Arcanist which has filled that gap of really strong cleave due to a strong ability aka Fatecarver... The class ain't hard to play either so it also falls in the ball park of "old templar" ... Can you imagine an Arcanist without Fatecarver? I guess the answer is no.. AND it released like that, drew in a lot of people and people still 'enjoying' it. Why did jabs need that change? People enjoyed it. It should've been tweaked a little and given a proper animation and it was fine. But somehow they are fine with Templars just being ezpz beam right now and nothing else to bring. And Arcanists to be a really good all arounder class that is fairly easy to pick up. ZoS isn't able to "tweak" things it seems, either they destroy it or they make it busted.

Actually lot of templar players also requested a change to jabs because they didn't enjoy relying on jabs so heavily. Similarly lot of people atm don't like arcanist because of heavy reliance on beam.

necro_the_crafter

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

People were not just using it for the execute...they were using it because it generates crux. The tentacular dread morph consumes crux, so it competes with beam. You can't really slot both beam and tentacular dread because you won't have enough crux...impervious runeward heal needs crux too. You can't even heal properly without crux.

If they would buff runeblades, more people would use it to generate crux.

I forget to mention that its also generates crux on top of outdamaging Tentacular Dread.

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Actually lot of templar players also requested a change to jabs because they didn't enjoy relying on jabs so heavily. Similarly lot of people atm don't like arcanist because of heavy reliance on beam.

I hope thay would eventually come up with runblades-dread playstyle, without destroying Flail-beam playstyle in the process.
As much as some people may dislike flail-beam, there is even more people that picked up the class because of it.