Arcanist Execute now and the whole 'balancing' thing

xylena_lazarow

Iuppiterr wrote: »

Give flail to any other class and this class will be the best PvE DPS in the game, its such a crazy ability and nerfing it has nothing to do with destroying a class phantasy because you guys are still pressing it twice and beaming for 6 secs after.

Everyone can shoot lasers. Soul Assault, Vatesh Destro. Tentacles defined the Arc power fantasy for me.

ketsparrowhawk

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

They already nerfed beam. But we were talking about PVP, not PVE. Arcanist kinda sucks in PvP.

As for PVE, maybe it's just because it's a channeled skill and you don't have to be godly good at a tedious rotation to DPS. Maybe Arcanist is just more accessible to average players.

I don't even bother to DPS in dungeons, I only tank or heal and I only do it if I want something. You would never catch me in a hard mode dungeon. Screw that.
Half of those Arcanist DPS probably wouldn't even bother playing at all if you nerfed them.
They're not going to just switch to another class. They'll just leave.

PvP is way more fun.

Arcanist does not suck in PvP lol. They are required for any competitive BG group.

Skjaldbjorn

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

That's why the Flail nerf is so sad. Doesn't fix PvE, just exacerbates their PvP deficiencies. While Arc has great defense and utility in PvP, its offensive kit was already arguably the worst in PvP, below even Necro or Plar.

I mean, the execute and heal are definitely meaningful. Are they the reason Arc is broken in PVE? Not even close. But they do contribute. Free sustain without even hitting a target is actually crazy on a DPS skill.

pklemming

The main point I was getting at was the seemingly random nerfs to classes without any thought of whether this actually balances the class. Changing skills after years, when they had been perfectly fine. Moving a skill that had been in that skill line from inception. Doing weird stuff to Wardens. Numbers seem to be some kind of strange magic to them, to be played with and see what new effect they can give.

Arc should probably have been nerfed, but why was this not done in the last round of changes for them, or the one before. Nothing seems calculated. it is just throw stuff at the wall and see what happens.

No one likes nerfs and they are implementing them with no real thought of why. No class should be overbuffed to sell an expansion, and then the fun toys be taken away later on.

They just create a degree of resentment, and then keep on piling it on.

I am still salty about their 'balancing' of Stranglers once they had sold enough units. They went from useful to extremely niche>

Did we ever get an apology over the whole 'ridiculing the players' video, thing? This is incidental, but am kind of curious. I am sure we would have got a ban for that. Maybe they are still 'working on it'.

Ezhh

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

One important thing to note is that the second, third and fourth place damage dealer classes are also likely only that high because they are typically the support DD classes. DK gets to zenkosh, cro gets to EC (less and less now thanks to the new tank set) and sorc gets to MK. If you were able to just look at parse DD only, it would be even more dominated by arcanists.

Evil_Rurouni

Ezhh wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

One important thing to note is that the second, third and fourth place damage dealer classes are also likely only that high because they are typically the support DD classes. DK gets to zenkosh, cro gets to EC (less and less now thanks to the new tank set) and sorc gets to MK. If you were able to just look at parse DD only, it would be even more dominated by arcanists.

Good observation.
I'd realised that mDK was getting into groups via the debuffer job role, but didn't realise that Cro and Sorc were too.
Guessing sorc MK is the martial knowledge set?
Either way, this means that the top half of the DD chart is just Arc DD and buffer of Arc DD.
NASTY.

Last time I saw the DD role this badly skewed was with the launch version of Necromancer, and that got nuked from orbit once ZoS had sold the class to enough players.


Next patch cycle after the one now in PTS will be after 2 cycles of Arc class sales if I'm counting right.
Who wants to bet it'll nuke Arc?

LittlePinkDot

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

They already nerfed beam. But we were talking about PVP, not PVE. Arcanist kinda sucks in PvP.

As for PVE, maybe it's just because it's a channeled skill and you don't have to be godly good at a tedious rotation to DPS. Maybe Arcanist is just more accessible to average players.

I don't even bother to DPS in dungeons, I only tank or heal and I only do it if I want something. You would never catch me in a hard mode dungeon. Screw that.
Half of those Arcanist DPS probably wouldn't even bother playing at all if you nerfed them.
They're not going to just switch to another class. They'll just leave.

PvP is way more fun.

Arcanist does not suck in PvP lol. They are required for any competitive BG group.

1 vs 1 defines the success of a build IMO. Just stabbing people in the back when they're fighting other people isn't anything to write home about.

Joy_Division

.

pklemming wrote: »

The main point I was getting at was the seemingly random nerfs to classes without any thought of whether this actually balances the class. Changing skills after years, when they had been perfectly fine. Moving a skill that had been in that skill line from inception. Doing weird stuff to Wardens. Numbers seem to be some kind of strange magic to them, to be played with and see what new effect they can give.

Arc should probably have been nerfed, but why was this not done in the last round of changes for them, or the one before. Nothing seems calculated. it is just throw stuff at the wall and see what happens.

No one likes nerfs and they are implementing them with no real thought of why. No class should be overbuffed to sell an expansion, and then the fun toys be taken away later on.

They just create a degree of resentment, and then keep on piling it on.

I am still salty about their 'balancing' of Stranglers once they had sold enough units. They went from useful to extremely niche>

Did we ever get an apology over the whole 'ridiculing the players' video, thing? This is incidental, but am kind of curious. I am sure we would have got a ban for that. Maybe they are still 'working on it'.

You're right, but people who don't actually like the class don't understand until it's their pet class that gets hit.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

They already nerfed beam. But we were talking about PVP, not PVE. Arcanist kinda sucks in PvP.

As for PVE, maybe it's just because it's a channeled skill and you don't have to be godly good at a tedious rotation to DPS. Maybe Arcanist is just more accessible to average players.

I don't even bother to DPS in dungeons, I only tank or heal and I only do it if I want something. You would never catch me in a hard mode dungeon. Screw that.
Half of those Arcanist DPS probably wouldn't even bother playing at all if you nerfed them.
They're not going to just switch to another class. They'll just leave.

PvP is way more fun.

Arcanist does not suck in PvP lol. They are required for any competitive BG group.

Just as support specs. On their own in they are defensive specs that struggle with damage, absolutely below Nightblades and Sorcerers. If a class is mid tier in PvP, asking them to eat a nerf for the sake of PvE is going to come off as random and thus be frustrating.

The nerf should have been to Beam which is the core of its PvE performance and often not even on a PvP bar.

xylena_lazarow

Joy_Division wrote: »

You're right, but people who don't actually like the class don't understand until it's their pet class that gets hit. The nerf should have been to Beam which is the core of its PvE performance and often not even on a PvP bar.

The people in favor of this nerf seem to just be happy that Arc got nerfed, it's completely going over their heads that this isn't going to address what they hate so much about Arcs. Their insane PvE dominance is entirely the laser, nerfing the laser would have almost no effect on PvP, nerfing Flail deletes a handful of (off meta mid tier) PvP Arc DD builds. I don't understand the "overloaded" complaints either, it's a class skill, it's supposed to be "overloaded" compared to generics.

Joy_Division

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You're right, but people who don't actually like the class don't understand until it's their pet class that gets hit. The nerf should have been to Beam which is the core of its PvE performance and often not even on a PvP bar.

The people in favor of this nerf seem to just be happy that Arc got nerfed, it's completely going over their heads that this isn't going to address what they hate so much about Arcs. Their insane PvE dominance is entirely the laser, nerfing the laser would have almost no effect on PvP, nerfing Flail deletes a handful of (off meta mid tier) PvP Arc DD builds. I don't understand the "overloaded" complaints either, it's a class skill, it's supposed to be "overloaded" compared to generics.

The "overloaded" complaints also come from not actually liking the class.

Every other class's damage skills do something else besides damage. A Dragonknight who uses Burning Embers will do damage, automatically inflict a status effect, provide a heal, and snare the enemy. Deep Breath is not just AoE damage, it's also a (potentially massive) heal, AoE interrupt, and delayed AoE Burst. It's this sort of flexibility and utility that are a valuable help in hindering enemy opponents, especially in a PvP environment where enemies can react. A DK has 9 damage skills to choose from that all have useful utility aside from damage.

An Arcanist only has 5 damage skills, and one of these is a low-damage tank taunt that DPS are not going to use. That means of the 4 others, two of these just do damage (runeblades and fatecarver, aside from create/consume the crux mini-game). Another (Fulminating Rune) is a good for groups because it offers 3 synergies, but a solo arcanist gets no other value from it. The only damage skill in the Arcanist kit that has the utility given to all the other classes is Flail, so of course it's going to be "overloaded" because all the other damage skills are underloaded.

It is incredibly convenient and efficient to do difficult content or fight higher skilled players when damage skills do something other than damage, so much so that many Templars, Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades, etc., take it for granted all damage skills also heal them, place key debuff on enemies, interrupt, etc.,

xylena_lazarow

Joy_Division wrote: »

Another (Fulminating Rune) is a good for groups because it offers 3 synergies, but a solo arcanist gets no other value

It's so underloaded as an open world DD skill that I replaced it with Structured Entropy and got better results, but with Flail being nuked from PvP, you'll need to run the Arc dot or you won't get Inspired Scholarship procs, further restricting bars. If you don't wanna run gimmicky laser bomber shenanigans, your entire open world PvP Arc offense is generics, procs, and a couple middling class dots that need specific synergies like Draugrkin to be worth a darn.

In its current state on PTS, I'm never touching this class outside PvE again.

BananaBender

Joy_Division wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You're right, but people who don't actually like the class don't understand until it's their pet class that gets hit. The nerf should have been to Beam which is the core of its PvE performance and often not even on a PvP bar.

The people in favor of this nerf seem to just be happy that Arc got nerfed, it's completely going over their heads that this isn't going to address what they hate so much about Arcs. Their insane PvE dominance is entirely the laser, nerfing the laser would have almost no effect on PvP, nerfing Flail deletes a handful of (off meta mid tier) PvP Arc DD builds. I don't understand the "overloaded" complaints either, it's a class skill, it's supposed to be "overloaded" compared to generics.

The "overloaded" complaints also come from not actually liking the class.

Every other class's damage skills do something else besides damage. A Dragonknight who uses Burning Embers will do damage, automatically inflict a status effect, provide a heal, and snare the enemy. Deep Breath is not just AoE damage, it's also a (potentially massive) heal, AoE interrupt, and delayed AoE Burst. It's this sort of flexibility and utility that are a valuable help in hindering enemy opponents, especially in a PvP environment where enemies can react. A DK has 9 damage skills to choose from that all have useful utility aside from damage.

An Arcanist only has 5 damage skills, and one of these is a low-damage tank taunt that DPS are not going to use. That means of the 4 others, two of these just do damage (runeblades and fatecarver, aside from create/consume the crux mini-game). Another (Fulminating Rune) is a good for groups because it offers 3 synergies, but a solo arcanist gets no other value from it. The only damage skill in the Arcanist kit that has the utility given to all the other classes is Flail, so of course it's going to be "overloaded" because all the other damage skills are underloaded.

It is incredibly convenient and efficient to do difficult content or fight higher skilled players when damage skills do something other than damage, so much so that many Templars, Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades, etc., take it for granted all damage skills also heal them, place key debuff on enemies, interrupt, etc.,

I agree that Arcanists kit is extremely flawed in design. They've pushed all of the damage in to two skills (Beam and Ult), and all of the utility to another (Flail). As you pointed out earlier, Arcanist's flail is pretty much two very solid skills put into one. Because of this fact that two of the skills are so stacked, Arcanist can have two flex slots without sacrificing almost any damage. This simply just isn't the case for any other class, which further feeds into the fact that Arcanist provides an insane amount of utility and flexibility.

Nerfing the beam and the ultimate would have been more preferable, but it was clear ever since release that the Flail had too much utility stuffed into a single ability. It is, and will still be in the next patch, the best spammable in the game without a doubt.

xylena_lazarow

BananaBender wrote: »

but it was clear ever since release that the Flail had too much utility stuffed into a single ability. It is, and will still be in the next patch, the best spammable in the game without a doubt

Now worthless as a PvP spammable, because none of its utility fills the holes in its PvP kit, you just have a middling AoE with a slow cast and janky hitbox. Whirling Blades is better for damage, Soul Burst or Fiery Contingency are better for utility, giving useful self buffs, dot synergies, and actually hitting targets being instant 8m pbAoE.

I finally noticed Flail as a kb on me the other day, from an actual good player on a real build, it was a whole 5.8k at low hp, with zerger and npc debuffs on me as well. Above 50% you were already better off casting something like MDW Twin Slashes. And on the PvE side it sounds like Arc will continue its absurd dominance. Absolute failure of a nerf.

BananaBender

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

but it was clear ever since release that the Flail had too much utility stuffed into a single ability. It is, and will still be in the next patch, the best spammable in the game without a doubt

Now worthless as a PvP spammable, because none of its utility fills the holes in its PvP kit, you just have a middling AoE with a slow cast and janky hitbox. Whirling Blades is better for damage, Soul Burst or Fiery Contingency are better for utility, giving useful self buffs, dot synergies, and actually hitting targets being instant 8m pbAoE.

I finally noticed Flail as a kb on me the other day, from an actual good player on a real build, it was a whole 5.8k at low hp, with zerger and npc debuffs on me as well. Above 50% you were already better off casting something like MDW Twin Slashes. And on the PvE side it sounds like Arc will continue its absurd dominance. Absolute failure of a nerf.

I guess Arcanist will have to stick to tanking in PvP then. Nothing new in this game, NB hasn't been a class in PvE for years now because of PvP, so I guess the case will be opposite for Arcanist. ZoS has always preferred easy changes over effective ones, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Joy_Division

BananaBender wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You're right, but people who don't actually like the class don't understand until it's their pet class that gets hit. The nerf should have been to Beam which is the core of its PvE performance and often not even on a PvP bar.

The people in favor of this nerf seem to just be happy that Arc got nerfed, it's completely going over their heads that this isn't going to address what they hate so much about Arcs. Their insane PvE dominance is entirely the laser, nerfing the laser would have almost no effect on PvP, nerfing Flail deletes a handful of (off meta mid tier) PvP Arc DD builds. I don't understand the "overloaded" complaints either, it's a class skill, it's supposed to be "overloaded" compared to generics.

The "overloaded" complaints also come from not actually liking the class.

Every other class's damage skills do something else besides damage. A Dragonknight who uses Burning Embers will do damage, automatically inflict a status effect, provide a heal, and snare the enemy. Deep Breath is not just AoE damage, it's also a (potentially massive) heal, AoE interrupt, and delayed AoE Burst. It's this sort of flexibility and utility that are a valuable help in hindering enemy opponents, especially in a PvP environment where enemies can react. A DK has 9 damage skills to choose from that all have useful utility aside from damage.

An Arcanist only has 5 damage skills, and one of these is a low-damage tank taunt that DPS are not going to use. That means of the 4 others, two of these just do damage (runeblades and fatecarver, aside from create/consume the crux mini-game). Another (Fulminating Rune) is a good for groups because it offers 3 synergies, but a solo arcanist gets no other value from it. The only damage skill in the Arcanist kit that has the utility given to all the other classes is Flail, so of course it's going to be "overloaded" because all the other damage skills are underloaded.

It is incredibly convenient and efficient to do difficult content or fight higher skilled players when damage skills do something other than damage, so much so that many Templars, Wardens, Sorcerers, Nightblades, etc., take it for granted all damage skills also heal them, place key debuff on enemies, interrupt, etc.,

I agree that Arcanists kit is extremely flawed in design. They've pushed all of the damage in to two skills (Beam and Ult), and all of the utility to another (Flail). As you pointed out earlier, Arcanist's flail is pretty much two very solid skills put into one. Because of this fact that two of the skills are so stacked, Arcanist can have two flex slots without sacrificing almost any damage. This simply just isn't the case for any other class, which further feeds into the fact that Arcanist provides an insane amount of utility and flexibility.

Nerfing the beam and the ultimate would have been more preferable, but it was clear ever since release that the Flail had too much utility stuffed into a single ability. It is, and will still be in the next patch, the best spammable in the game without a doubt.

Yes.

The whole point of ZOS's change was to make the Tentacle morph more attractive such that Arcanists will use it. Fatecarver is about 40% of my DPS. Why would I ever drop that? Especially since I'd have to use single target Runeblades three times instead of the AoE flail twice get three crux. Not happening. So PvE arcanists are going to play the exact same way, just with a loss of maybe 3-4% of DPS.

So the only audience for Tentacle is for PvPers, and it runs into the same issue for PvE: it's still not a good investment for Crux. I'd have to slot an extra skill (probably Runeblades). So I'll lose ele susceptibility or camo hunter, and there is no guarantee I'll ever even get to use the bonus damage for tentacle because if I'm fighting someone good, I will have to use my shield and thus consume the crux I have built (which is how prefer to use it anyway). I've been on the PTS and the burst damage Tentacle does is less than what an Arcanist can do on Live right now, which isn't anything that good to begin with.

Because of the flawed design and its dependence on Crux, next update flail is still going to be the go to.

xylena_lazarow

BananaBender wrote: »

I guess Arcanist will have to stick to tanking in PvP then. Nothing new in this game, NB hasn't been a class in PvE for years now because of PvP, so I guess the case will be opposite for Arcanist. ZoS has always preferred easy changes over effective ones, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Nothing new, but that shouldn't stop us from asking for better. PvP Arc will still have its group shield support niche, laser bombers will have their niche, and you can still make a viable OW DD from procs and generics. I just hate seeing class defining power fantasies get dumpstered while generic procs and heals dominate the PvP meta. RIP Jabs.

xylena_lazarow

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because of the flawed design and its dependence on Crux, next update flail is still going to be the go to.

Arc class script on a scribble is a much better Crux generator now, and PvP Arc should already be running Chakram which also generates Crux. Sure people will still try to run Flail in PvP, but their Arcs will be much weaker for it.

Joy_Division

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because of the flawed design and its dependence on Crux, next update flail is still going to be the go to.

Arc class script on a scribble is a much better Crux generator now, and PvP Arc should already be running Chakram which also generates Crux. Sure people will still try to run Flail in PvP, but their Arcs will be much weaker for it.

The scribing system reminds me how more convenient it is to play other classes than an Arcanist. If I am a Templar and use my class script, I get 2.6K armor and 300 spell damage. Adds actual extra power to the skill. If Arc becomes the new Nerco in update 43, I'll just log onto one of the two pet classes ZOS favors for PvP.

dogmycats

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

Arcanist must be weakened, which seriously affects the class balance of PVE for such a long time.
They didn't notice a lot of other players that didn't like to play Arcanist quit the game.

Ezhh

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

This shows pretty well how incredibly stale the meta has been on PvE side ever since arcanist has been released. It should definitely get nerfed, but they are focusing on the wrong skill to make an actual difference.

Credit to Geldis1306 for the picture and gathering the data.

One important thing to note is that the second, third and fourth place damage dealer classes are also likely only that high because they are typically the support DD classes. DK gets to zenkosh, cro gets to EC (less and less now thanks to the new tank set) and sorc gets to MK. If you were able to just look at parse DD only, it would be even more dominated by arcanists.

Good observation.
I'd realised that mDK was getting into groups via the debuffer job role, but didn't realise that Cro and Sorc were too.
Guessing sorc MK is the martial knowledge set?
Either way, this means that the top half of the DD chart is just Arc DD and buffer of Arc DD.
NASTY.

Last time I saw the DD role this badly skewed was with the launch version of Necromancer, and that got nuked from orbit once ZoS had sold the class to enough players.


Next patch cycle after the one now in PTS will be after 2 cycles of Arc class sales if I'm counting right.
Who wants to bet it'll nuke Arc?

Yes, MK is Martial Knowledge. Sorry for not clarifying.

It's pretty rare to see parse cros or parse sorcs in organised groups now. If there are places for them it's usually as support DDs. I still see a few spots here and there for parse DKs and very rarely a parse plar sneaking into the mix, but that's about it, and it also depends a little on the trial. Warden and NB DDs are not happening at all beyond casual groups where people don't worry who plays what.

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

At the moment a typical roster is something like:

• Tanks: probably DK and cro, sometimes arc or sorc.
• Healers: always a warden, then NB, arc, sorc, or (more recently) cro.
• Support DDs: some selection of DK/cro/sorc depending on group needs.
• Parse DDs: Lots of Arcs.

Class balance is obviously an issue when rosters are this heavily weighted toward one class.

Skjaldbjorn

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

LittlePinkDot

BananaBender wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

but it was clear ever since release that the Flail had too much utility stuffed into a single ability. It is, and will still be in the next patch, the best spammable in the game without a doubt

Now worthless as a PvP spammable, because none of its utility fills the holes in its PvP kit, you just have a middling AoE with a slow cast and janky hitbox. Whirling Blades is better for damage, Soul Burst or Fiery Contingency are better for utility, giving useful self buffs, dot synergies, and actually hitting targets being instant 8m pbAoE.

I finally noticed Flail as a kb on me the other day, from an actual good player on a real build, it was a whole 5.8k at low hp, with zerger and npc debuffs on me as well. Above 50% you were already better off casting something like MDW Twin Slashes. And on the PvE side it sounds like Arc will continue its absurd dominance. Absolute failure of a nerf.

I guess Arcanist will have to stick to tanking in PvP then. Nothing new in this game, NB hasn't been a class in PvE for years now because of PvP, so I guess the case will be opposite for Arcanist. ZoS has always preferred easy changes over effective ones, I don't see that changing any time soon.

It might sound weird but my PvP bow Arcanist is my current favourite out of my PvP characters. I just really want ZoS to give Runeblades major savagery/prophecy.

Turtle_Bot

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

It might sound weird but my PvP bow Arcanist is my current favourite out of my PvP characters. I just really want ZoS to give Runeblades major savagery/prophecy.

Runeblades needs something, it is by far my most favourite skill from arcs entire kit. Fluid and satisfying to use, just lacking the utility to match flail.

Since it seems runeblades were meant to be the main skill designed to generate crux, have runeblades be the best skill at doing that. Instead of removing the execute from flail, remove the crux gen from flail and have runeblades generate 1 crux per blade instead of 1 crux per cast (so 1 runeblade cast = 3 crux generated).

Then since the execute is staying on flail, have execute scaling be on the base ability and have the morphs use 1 crux per cast for different bonuses: e.g. stam morph gets bonus execute scaling, mag morph gets the heal and ink debuff.

Aurielle

Wow, I really picked the wrong time on live to rebuild my shield spam Arcanist into a very mid-tier melee proc Arcanist. RIP my gold tempers… I have no room on my front bar to slot Whirling Blades. It simply doesn’t work without an execute on Flail. Guess I’ll have to try a ranged proc build with a scribed spammable for crux instead, and ditch the skill that, you know, gives Arcs a lot of visual class identity…

I will never understand some of the “balance” choices that are made in this game. If the proliferation of DD Arcanists in pee-vee-eee land was the source of this nerf, surely it would have made more sense to nerf beam?

pklemming

Thinking about it, it may actually be doable to use a scribing skill for crux next patch. I don't like the idea, but with the numbers being upped on scribing, it may be a viable alternative, but still DOES NOT give us an execute.

I am just tired of this dumb balancing, especially after we were PROMISED no more major changes. Short term memory at Zos, it seems. I just want to play the game, not play a game of 'adapt to nonsensical changes'.

After all is said and done, though. none of this matters as they never listen to their player base.... The people that play the game. They always know best....Yeah, OK.

Oh, also loving the complete collapse of trading with the expiry change on items.... Good call. if only you had been warned....

Galeriano2

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

I would start from just fixing the set in the first place.

BananaBender

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

I would start from just fixing the set in the first place.

While I think the set is a bit too strong, it wouldn't really fix any balance issues with Arcanist, in fact it might make it even worse. Other classes (DK mainly and at time Necro) can match Arcanists damage in cleave fights because of Azureblight. If it was nerfed then Arcanist would dominate the meta even more.

If they changed the set in a way that would limit Arcanists from using it, while still being good on other classes, we could be onto something.

Galeriano2

BananaBender wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

I would start from just fixing the set in the first place.

While I think the set is a bit too strong, it wouldn't really fix any balance issues with Arcanist, in fact it might make it even worse. Other classes (DK mainly and at time Necro) can match Arcanists damage in cleave fights because of Azureblight. If it was nerfed then Arcanist would dominate the meta even more.

If they changed the set in a way that would limit Arcanists from using it, while still being good on other classes, we could be onto something.

Fixing I am talking about nerfs azureblight for everyone using it. Currently it procs way more often than it should.

BananaBender

Galeriano2 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

I would start from just fixing the set in the first place.

While I think the set is a bit too strong, it wouldn't really fix any balance issues with Arcanist, in fact it might make it even worse. Other classes (DK mainly and at time Necro) can match Arcanists damage in cleave fights because of Azureblight. If it was nerfed then Arcanist would dominate the meta even more.

If they changed the set in a way that would limit Arcanists from using it, while still being good on other classes, we could be onto something.

Fixing I am talking about nerfs azureblight for everyone using it. Currently it procs way more often than it should.

I'm not sure if I understood your post wrong, but it's working as intended right now. The stacks are a non personal debuff to the target, so if multiple people are using Azureblight it stacks extremely quickly, resulting in procs happening very often. This is the way it is supposed to work after the rework.

If you mean fixing it as in that it's OP, I don't think it would solve any issues and would only make things worse.

Galeriano2

BananaBender wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

In general arc is too strong an all rounder and seen as the safe option, even though it's not the highest single target damage you can get. Maybe what they need to do is reduce its cleave damage in PvE somehow without hurting the rest of its utility too much, but the design of the class doesn't make that easy to do.

I've said this before, if balancing Arc in PVE is the aim, just remove Beam's ability to proc Azureblight. Suddenly, the playing field would become extremely level in AoE encounters. Their AoE would still be crazy strong, but Azure can pull such an absurd share of damage with proccing a seed stack on literally everything every .3s.

I would start from just fixing the set in the first place.

While I think the set is a bit too strong, it wouldn't really fix any balance issues with Arcanist, in fact it might make it even worse. Other classes (DK mainly and at time Necro) can match Arcanists damage in cleave fights because of Azureblight. If it was nerfed then Arcanist would dominate the meta even more.

If they changed the set in a way that would limit Arcanists from using it, while still being good on other classes, we could be onto something.

Fixing I am talking about nerfs azureblight for everyone using it. Currently it procs way more often than it should.

I'm not sure if I understood your post wrong, but it's working as intended right now. The stacks are a non personal debuff to the target, so if multiple people are using Azureblight it stacks extremely quickly, resulting in procs happening very often. This is the way it is supposed to work after the rework.

If you mean fixing it as in that it's OP, I don't think it would solve any issues and would only make things worse.

There is a bug with the set that causes multiple players to get the explosion proc from the same instance of 20 stacks. Each explosion should be happening for 1 player which is not the case currently. There are sometimes 4 explosions happening at the same time.