Teabagging update would be good before MYM

Tommy_The_Gun · July 23

whitecrow wrote: »

This is such a bizarre thing to be obsessed about.

Yeah, I mean why would one even ask about something like this ? What is the purpose of such question ?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that some one specifically wants to do that very very badly and just wants to have some form of "protection" in a form of this thread and some one saying in green font "yes or no", in case a player will get mass-reported in game etc.

freespirit · July 23

Maybe I'm an old fuddy duddy but knowing exactly what the person is trying to simulate means I am totally opposed to it's use in any game, especially as the intention is to insult or belittle the receiving player!!

It's offensivve and shouldn't be allowed anywhere except behind closed door's with consenting adults!!

xylena_lazarow · July 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Context is an important part of human communication.

Yes this is why we have lawyers and courts. Seems excessive for what's ultimately just a simulated vulgar act in a video game, which is sometimes used as harassment, sometimes just a joke between friends. Allow it or don't.

spartaxoxo · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Context is an important part of human communication.

Yes this is why we have lawyers and courts. Seems excessive for what's ultimately just a simulated vulgar act in a video game, which is sometimes used as harassment, sometimes just a joke between friends. Allow it or don't.

It's also why we have moderators in video games. Doesn't seem excessive at all for them to use discretion to only ban players that are being disruptive. Your example is precisely why they use discretion.

belial5221_ESO · July 23

How about they make a toggle setting to not see teabag,or other animations, they find offensive.Could be in emote section a little box to enable/disable seeing it.

Araneae6537 · July 23

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

How about they make a toggle setting to not see teabag,or other animations, they find offensive.Could be in emote section a little box to enable/disable seeing it.

It’s not a specific emote but going into and out of crouch repeatedly over a character as a form of gloating I guess. I try to avoid being in a group with people who engage in such low behavior. But likewise I see no reason to make a big thing out of it. Sending messages only rewards such people. Just ignore them. Unless there is a strategic reason to watch what is going on after one’s death, I’m looking at my death recap, waiting to rez.

Highwayman · July 23

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

How about they make a toggle setting to not see teabag,or other animations, they find offensive.Could be in emote section a little box to enable/disable seeing it.

Wouldn't it be great if the social dynamics of it were that simple?

I'd guess that, largely, people who are bothered by it wouldn't want to be prevented from knowing it's happening. The complaints aren't because they don't want to see it but because they don't want it happening and want someone punished for doing it.

That's a simplification too of course. There are also those who see it s a status thing or just plain have malicious intent who are looking for a system to weaponize. They wouldn't use it because they aren't truly bothered by it, but would find more bad faith arguments to push the subject regardless.

To avoid more status quo you'd need a system where people could prevent others from seeing it done to them. That is not as simple to implement and is it really even worth the effort?

Just to clarify my opinion, in a competitive environment, I see it like pascal's wager. People either don't care or they do and let it get to them, so the meta game would be to do it (assuming it doesn't bother you of course). Which is why I usually reserve it for tryhards that overextend themselves. It keeps them making the same mistakes and I'm not good enough to throw away a perfectly good psyche out.

SeaGtGruff · July 23

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been tea-bagged in ESO, and still have fingers left. It doesn't bother me, and I'm not certainly not going to reward the other person by getting angry about it. In fact, what I've observed is that-- at least in the cases where someone has tea-bagged me-- the person who tea-bagged me didn't even do much damage.

For instance, in one case a player attacked me in IC but couldn't kill me, then someone else from their alliance joined in and did kill me (according to the death recap). So the player who actually killed me promptly went on their merry way, while the player who had originally attacked me but couldn't even make it onto the death recap hung around to tea-bag me. I laughed.

Another time, I was in Cyrodiil and got overrun by a swarm of EP players. Naturally, they killed me pretty quickly. So the swarm proceeded onward to the keep they were getting ready to attack, but one straggler came along after I was already dead and stopped to tea-bag me before running to catch up with the others. Again, I laughed.

I'm not trying to devalue anyone else's outrage or discomfiture about tea-bagging, and I realize that my own experiences are limited and do not necessarily reflect the most common situations. I'm just saying that in my limited experiences the players who apparently feel the need to tea-bag someone are not nearly as awesome as they think, and in my opinion their inclination to insult or disrespect the players on the receiving end of their behavior comes across as pathetic and juvenile rather than as a display of awesomeness and skill, like they're trying to impress themselves. Players who truly are awesome at PvP usually don't need to impress themselves by stopping to tea-bag anyone, because they're more interested in moving on to the next fight.

By the way, when I said I laughed, I don't mean I laughed at the player tea-bagging me, but laughed at the tea-bagging itself. Not because it was amusing, but because it just seemed silly under the circumstances.

ForumSavant · July 23

JavaRen wrote: »

Back on the 18th we were told that @Zos_Kevin would have an update on teabagging policy for us, that sure would be good to have before MYM starts on Thursday.

Give em another month.

ToRelax · July 23

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

[...]

I'm not trying to devalue anyone else's outrage or discomfiture about tea-bagging, and I realize that my own experiences are limited and do not necessarily reflect the most common situations. I'm just saying that in my limited experiences the players who apparently feel the need to tea-bag someone are not nearly as awesome as they think, and in my opinion their inclination to insult or disrespect the players on the receiving end of their behavior comes across as pathetic and juvenile rather than as a display of awesomeness and skill, like they're trying to impress themselves. Players who truly are awesome at PvP usually don't need to impress themselves by stopping to tea-bag anyone, because they're more interested in moving on to the next fight.

This is certainly true for a lot of the players triggering complaints. But I don't see how it's different for offline harassment. We don't accept harassment simply because the perpetrator was pathetic enough to start harassing people.

Plus, for myself, the main issue is the incredibly toxic atmosphere created by giving deeply anti social behaviours a pass. Who wants to play a game with other people knowing they actively try to make the game worse for others? It's the one and only reason I can't recommend the game to anyone.

xilfxlegion · July 23

these forums should have a " beating a dead horse " emote.

Sheezabeast · July 23

How can there be any change, when we have an armor set that relies on crouching and uncrouching?

thorwyn · July 23

xilfxlegion wrote: »

these forums should have a " beating a dead horse " emote.

Servers couldn't handle the spam. ^^

N00BxV1 · July 23

I've been playing online multiplayer games for ~20 years (I was there when Tea-bagging first became popular), and before that we had LAN parties, and before that we played couch co-op/versus, and before that we went to the Arcades... So I've had all kinds of interactions with other Gamers throughout the years. But Tea-bagging has never bothered me and I don't see how it's harmful in any way (it's especially not "assault" like some people claim). Tea-bagging is a helluva lot less harmful than being punched in the face, just take my word for it (my friends and I would physically fight over video games).

So I don't mind being Tea-bagged one bit. And if anyone ever wants to dump some butt on my character's face then feel free. Because it's just a funny action within a video game in a make-believe world...

wolfie1.0. · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

A situation where a person in authority indicates that each instance will be decided on a case by case instance is actually a rule. It's just not one set in stone and relies on context.

My thoughts on the matter is that if you have to ask someone for a hard boundary for something like this then you might just be better off not doing it.

Personally, I have always hated the practice, it invokes bad memories of high school bullying and hazing drama that should remain in that era. Some practices should be left in the past. That is how I feel.

ESO for the most part has one of the least toxic communities for an MMO that I have seen and it's players are very diverse. So, while I wish for this practice to be ended I understand that others have a difference of opinion and I can respect that.

Ultimately, how ZOS handles such things is up to them.

Syldras · July 23

N00BxV1 wrote: »

(my friends and I would physically fight over video games).

Interesting how experiences differ. I've been PvPing a lot back in the LAN party era. Mostly Counter-Strike and the original Unreal Tournament, sometimes strategy games like Age of Empires 2 or some WW2 stuff, rarely some racing game. There were never physical fights with other players. The opposite, actually; after a match you'd chat with your opponents and have a drink or so. No matter who won and who lost. It felt more like sports. Soccer players normally don't beat each other up after a match either.

N00BxV1 · July 23

Syldras wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

(my friends and I would physically fight over video games).

Interesting how experiences differ. I've been PvPing a lot back in the LAN party era. Mostly Counter-Strike and the original Unreal Tournament, sometimes strategy games like Age of Empires 2 or some WW2 stuff, rarely some racing game. There were never physical fights with other players. The opposite, actually; after a match you'd chat with your opponents and have a drink or so. No matter who won and who lost. It felt more like sports. Soccer players normally don't beat each other up after a match either.

Yes, everyone's experiences, beliefs, up-bringing, way of life, etc. are all different from others.

And competition can be... fun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_neSjf8QMA

West93 · July 23

Most people tbag me first and after I return the favor they cry and warn that they will report me. Happens very often at least have 10 cases like this.

Why do they tbag first but if I tbag them back they feel upset and crying about reporting like they are the victim?

Why I never reported anyone for tbagging yet I get tbagged everyday?

JavaRen · July 23

I think we can all agree (regardless of postion on teabagging) that threatening to report behaviour one has personally engaged in should be a banning offense.

EdjeSwift · July 23

West93 wrote: »

Most people tbag me first and after I return the favor they cry and warn that they will report me. Happens very often at least have 10 cases like this.

Why do they tbag first but if I tbag them back they feel upset and crying about reporting like they are the victim?

Why I never reported anyone for tbagging yet I get tbagged everyday?

I genuinely used to love reports like this back in my old MMO CS days. I still remember the first time I told a player, "Thank you very much for your report, we will be looking at both sides the interactions and take whatever actions are deemed appropriate." and ended up suspending the reporting player and warning the "offending" player because the reporting player went the route of racism and bigotry and reported the other player for telling in unkind terms to leave them alone.

A lot of people seem to live by the "rules for thee and not for me" adage and it is quite disheartening.

spartaxoxo · July 23

JavaRen wrote: »

I think we can all agree (regardless of postion on teabagging) that threatening to report behaviour one has personally engaged in should be a banning offense.

Depends on the circumstances, imo.

Scenario 1:

Vanus kills and teabags Mannimarco. Mannimarco swears revenge. He forms a fake friendship with Vanus. Just, so he can find out which guild Vanus is in and around which time he logins. Once he has this information, Mannimarco begins to harass Vanus for weeks on end. Mannimarco kills Vanus, and only Vanus, constantly. Teabags constantly. Mannimarco swears vengeance on Vanus and adjust his whole schedule around specifically harassing Vanus. Vanus reports Mannimarco.

Mannimarco should be banned.

Scenario 2:

Much more likely. Rada al-Saran kills and teabags Verandis. Verandis thinks a friendly rivalry is now on, and kills and teabags Rada al-Saran. Rada reports Verandis instead.

Rada should be banned.

I've actually seen something very similar to Scenario 1 in another game. Although, I can't say I've heard of anything similar happening in this game, but I also don't PvP hardly ever.

JavaRen · July 23

In scenario one far more than the teabagging should be reported, so a bit outside my point. But I will concede that some bizarre hypothetical scenario could exist, sure.

Amottica · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

@xylena_lazarow

No. Gina's post is not toothless by any measure. Zenimax is wise enough to realize that players can hide offline and can tell if we are hiding offline. They can also tell if a communication attempt was made, as that is all entered into the system.

It also requires reporting the player for teabagging, so there is no arbitrary ban just because someone is teabagging a downed player. If they teabagged their friend after their friend asked them to stop and that friend reported them, well, maybe they were not such good friends.

Fortunately, Zenimax looks at all of this on a case-by-case basis. It is unlikely they will ban someone due to one offense of teabagging if there has been nothing else. Then there is the problem child, who has a headache for Zeimax. If the player has been reported for various things, the sole case of teabagging might be the final straw, but such a player would already know they were skating on thin ice.

In short, it is probably a great idea to not teabag someone if they have asked for the action to cease and an even better idea to not teabag anyone if playing in offline mode.

LPapirius · July 23

whitecrow wrote: »

This is such a bizarre thing to be obsessed about.

No it's not.

People repeatedly disrespecting others is a huge problem in the world today and it's often amplified in games where the worst offenders are hiding behind their anonymity.

It's not a challenge to treat others with the same level of respect that you expect to get yourself.

The solution is easy. Just don't be one of those people who gets off on disrespecting others.

Oblivion_Protocol · July 24

I hate to be the ‘back in my day…’ guy, but when did people get so soft? Are we really this pressed about a crouching animation in a video game? Are people’s feelings really so hurt because of this?

It’s not that hard to ignore it when it happens if it bothers you that much. No need to get the devs involved over a simple taunt that will literally never go away. Yes, people could just be nicer. But they aren’t, so it’s best to deal with it. To quote one of my favorite South Park moments:

“What’s wrong with you people? Are you sad because people are mean? Well I’m sorry. The world isn’t one big liberal arts college campus!”

Pelanora · July 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Context is an important part of human communication.

Yes this is why we have lawyers and courts. Seems excessive for what's ultimately just a simulated vulgar act in a video game, which is sometimes used as harassment, sometimes just a joke between friends. Allow it or don't.

It's also why we have moderators in video games. Doesn't seem excessive at all for them to use discretion to only ban players that are being disruptive. Your example is precisely why they use discretion.

Upon submission of a photo etc by a player as evidence of what's been done to them, the other player locked out for x days TBD. Has to be submitted by the victim.

Noone will submit if they don't want the outcome.

Context not needed.

Easy.

If that's what they want to do.

It would be an easy rule to admin, just take resources, which they may not have.

DenverRalphy · July 24

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

I hate to be the ‘back in my day…’ guy, but when did people get so soft? Are we really this pressed about a crouching animation in a video game? Are people’s feelings really so hurt because of this?

If it were so benign as you make it out to be, people wouldn't be doing it. And it wouldn't be such an effective Griefing tool.

vsrs_au · July 24

Pelanora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Context is an important part of human communication.

Yes this is why we have lawyers and courts. Seems excessive for what's ultimately just a simulated vulgar act in a video game, which is sometimes used as harassment, sometimes just a joke between friends. Allow it or don't.

It's also why we have moderators in video games. Doesn't seem excessive at all for them to use discretion to only ban players that are being disruptive. Your example is precisely why they use discretion.

Upon submission of a photo etc by a player as evidence of what's been done to them, the other player locked out for x days TBD. Has to be submitted by the victim.

Noone will submit if they don't want the outcome.

Context not needed.

Easy.

If that's what they want to do.

It would be an easy rule to admin, just take resources, which they may not have.

Which probably explains why players' requests for crown gifting take so long to be approved: lack of personnel to process the requests.

Roztlin45 · July 24

What is hilarious is that a sex act is used to describe actions of pixels that happen to represent humanoids. If someone reads the title and has no idea...lol

MidniteOwl1913 · July 24

What I would like is a setting like auto decline duels. Auto opt out of the behaviour.

I don't know how else to see it except as disrespectful. I would never do that to another player and I don't want it done to me. I do not consent.