Why aren't there capes/cloaks and dragon mounts?

Twohothardware

Tsuriel wrote: »

The servers can barely handle the pressure as it is. They'll literally melt if they add capes and sheaths

The problem isn't the servers, it's the coding and the more than 10 year old game engine.

SeaUnicorn

"Bugs in my bed, how irritating" Lokkestiiz circa 2019

cirocruz

Forget about dragon mounts, just give us THE DONKEY mount instead of a indrik in a new paint job >_>

fizzylu

Twohothardware wrote: »

and the more than 10 year old game engine.

Well, let's not blame it on the age of the engine.... plenty of MMOs with engines older than ESO's handle things like capes and dragon mounts just fine. The real problem is that the engine has been trash from the very beginning.

Elsonso

fizzylu wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

and the more than 10 year old game engine.

Well, let's not blame it on the age of the engine.... plenty of MMOs with engines older than ESO's handle things like capes and dragon mounts just fine. The real problem is that the engine has been trash from the very beginning.

I think that the real problem is that they did something other than capes. I figure they could add capes if they wanted. Obviously, they don't (yet) want to.

Vevvev

DrogB wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Lot of us really hate the front and back flappies too....

but they exist and you use them anyway

Not by choice until you learn styles, get dyes, and can actually create your own custom look in outfitting. Outfit styles that lack them are far more popular than those that do.

Silaf

Lore and performance.

It wasen't that difficult to guess.

kargen27

Elsonso wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

and the more than 10 year old game engine.

Well, let's not blame it on the age of the engine.... plenty of MMOs with engines older than ESO's handle things like capes and dragon mounts just fine. The real problem is that the engine has been trash from the very beginning.

I think that the real problem is that they did something other than capes. I figure they could add capes if they wanted. Obviously, they don't (yet) want to.

If they did add capes players wouldn't be happy with the look. The clipping would be severe and there would be no flow to the capes. Take a look at characters with long hair to see how bad capes would be.

AllenaNightWood

id rather see backpacks on my character then cloaks or capes

spartaxoxo

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

id rather see backpacks on my character then cloaks or capes

@AllenaNightWood

There are already outfits/costumes with backpacks.

I stopped updating this list but here's a good chunk of them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600351/which-costumes-have-backpacks#latest

Edit

I think the dungeon explorer costume might actually be free right now in the crown store.

TaSheen

Vevvev wrote: »

DrogB wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Lot of us really hate the front and back flappies too....

but they exist and you use them anyway

Not by choice until you learn styles, get dyes, and can actually create your own custom look in outfitting. Outfit styles that lack them are far more popular than those that do.

Exactly. And in fact, I spent quite a lot of gold almost from the very beginning (because of daily writs on everyone) buying the few motifs there were for chest and legs that had NO FLAPPIES. Also bought a few CS costumes which were simple and plain.

fizzylu

@Elsonso
Actually, they can't. They tried and gave up/failed. From the rigging of them, the physics, everything.... they looked terrible and were even making the already bad performance of the game worse.

I made a comparison using a WoW character model and that games capes for another thread about the lack of capes in ESO awhile back.

The first picture is ESO when it once upon a time had capes. The problems they had with them are obvious even just visually, now add to that the code and their questionable understanding of how to program games.... the only way ESO would ever have capes is if they completely remake the game, properly this time.

Now, what they could do is create more set appearances with pouches/tomes/scarves/collars/etc instead of just onesies with metal bits.... but they rarely even bother to do that much.

Elsonso

kargen27 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

and the more than 10 year old game engine.

Well, let's not blame it on the age of the engine.... plenty of MMOs with engines older than ESO's handle things like capes and dragon mounts just fine. The real problem is that the engine has been trash from the very beginning.

I think that the real problem is that they did something other than capes. I figure they could add capes if they wanted. Obviously, they don't (yet) want to.

If they did add capes players wouldn't be happy with the look. The clipping would be severe and there would be no flow to the capes. Take a look at characters with long hair to see how bad capes would be.

fizzylu wrote: »

Actually, they can't. They tried and gave up/failed. From the rigging of them, the physics, everything.... they looked terrible and were even making the already bad performance of the game worse.

I figure that if they really did want to add player capes, they would have the option to resolve those issues. Things are a lot different now than they were 10+ years ago when they had to choose between B or C and didn't choose Capes.

The real question, as I see it, is not whether they can do capes with physics, but why would they want to? The game has gone 10 years without them and is doing just fine.

AllenaNightWood

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

id rather see backpacks on my character then cloaks or capes

@AllenaNightWood

There are already outfits/costumes with backpacks.

I stopped updating this list but here's a good chunk of them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600351/which-costumes-have-backpacks#latest

Edit

I think the dungeon explorer costume might actually be free right now in the crown store.

i want them as part of outfit system

Stafford197

Maybe having dynamic Cape movements wouldn’t work, but why isn’t it possible to make Capes part of our character’s skeleton?

Just like an Argonian tail, the cape would be part of the character and play an array of static movements. And also just like player Body Markings, a new category of customization such as Cape Design could be made which colors the cape.

Surely this task be given to a professional animator to create realistic animations for each direction of movement, slowing down, running, etc.

Just an idea. I could be wrong but it seems viable (as opposed to dynamic cape movement which ZOS has said wouldn’t work due to performance).

LunaFlora

Stafford197 wrote: »

Maybe having dynamic Cape movements wouldn’t work, but why isn’t it possible to make Capes part of our character’s skeleton?

Just like an Argonian tail, the cape would be part of the character and play an array of static movements. And also just like player Body Markings, a new category of customization such as Cape Design could be made which colors the cape.

Surely this task be given to a professional animator to create realistic animations for each direction of movement, slowing down, running, etc.

Just an idea. I could be wrong but it seems viable (as opposed to dynamic cape movement which ZOS has said wouldn’t work due to performance).

so what would happen with tails if capes did get added?

Most capes go over your legs, right?
but for tailed characters the back flaps on outfit styles simply get disabled. so capes would probably also be disabled.
Otherwise the capes and tails would clip through eachother.

fizzylu

@Stafford197

LunaFlora wrote: »

Most capes go over your legs, right?
but for tailed characters the back flaps on outfit styles simply get disabled. so capes would probably also be disabled.
Otherwise the capes and tails would clip through eachother.

My guess is they'd need new/better skeletons to do this properly (again, would've been nice if Zenimax just made them well to begin with but here we are). The current ones definitely don't have enough bones/nodes. Just look at the way the ESO cape bunched up on the back between the neck/shoulders and the hips/waist in the picture I posted previously, then the back flap problem is another example.

zaria

LunaFlora wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Maybe having dynamic Cape movements wouldn’t work, but why isn’t it possible to make Capes part of our character’s skeleton?

Just like an Argonian tail, the cape would be part of the character and play an array of static movements. And also just like player Body Markings, a new category of customization such as Cape Design could be made which colors the cape.

Surely this task be given to a professional animator to create realistic animations for each direction of movement, slowing down, running, etc.

Just an idea. I could be wrong but it seems viable (as opposed to dynamic cape movement which ZOS has said wouldn’t work due to performance).

so what would happen with tails if capes did get added?

Most capes go over your legs, right?
but for tailed characters the back flaps on outfit styles simply get disabled. so capes would probably also be disabled.
Otherwise the capes and tails would clip through eachother.

This, add that you have weapons on the back and so many axes clips into tails on Khajiit, assume worse on Agronians as thicker tails. Capes would also clip into weapons on the back, even long hair is an issue.
Playing an Draenei think capes was simply clipped at waist level who looked stupid.

oldbobdude

lol. I’d settle for my characters hair not looking like a helmet when doing crafting writs. It’s like he bends his head down at the crafting table and you can see between his head and hair.

Drammanoth

Here's how it could look like:

1) ZOS listens to playerbase and introduces capes
2) playerbase is happy that ZOS listened to us
3) playerbase sees flaws and gets mad
4) playerbase incessantly posts here to friggin' DO something about it
5) ZOS *facepalm* asks themselves 'why did we listen to the playerbase in the 1st place'

On a more serious note, even with clipping, this would be another item which we could wear and thus add extra stats or effects.

TaSheen

Drammanoth wrote: »

Here's how it could look like:

1) ZOS listens to playerbase and introduces capes
2) playerbase is happy that ZOS listened to us
3) playerbase sees flaws and gets mad
4) playerbase incessantly posts here to friggin' DO something about it
5) ZOS *facepalm* asks themselves 'why did we listen to the playerbase in the 1st place'

On a more serious note, even with clipping, this would be another item which we could wear and thus add extra stats or effects.

So you'd want another "gear slot" for it. And those of us who didn't want them added/wouldn't be happy about having another gear slot would HAVE to wear them because of the stats and effects, right? And sure, ZOS could make them invisible like the head slot, but look how long it took to get an invisible shoulder slot....

Please no.

Nharimlur_Finor

I think the dungeon explorer costume might actually be free right now in the crown store.

It might actually be free.
Closer inspection reveals some hoops are involved and require some jumping-through prior to freedom being established.

Nharimlur_Finor

TaSheen wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Here's how it could look like:

1) ZOS listens to playerbase and introduces capes
2) playerbase is happy that ZOS listened to us
3) playerbase sees flaws and gets mad
4) playerbase incessantly posts here to friggin' DO something about it
5) ZOS *facepalm* asks themselves 'why did we listen to the playerbase in the 1st place'

On a more serious note, even with clipping, this would be another item which we could wear and thus add extra stats or effects.

So you'd want another "gear slot" for it. And those of us who didn't want them added/wouldn't be happy about having another gear slot would HAVE to wear them because of the stats and effects, right? And sure, ZOS could make them invisible like the head slot, but look how long it took to get an invisible shoulder slot....

Please no.

It could replace pauldrons.
The 'light' pauldrons are often just a shoulder-length hoodie anyway.

Nharimlur_Finor

another reason:



Capes Went Beserk.

Artem_gig

TaSheen wrote: »

Yeah. Take a look at the "Breton Hero" costume.... from the back, while moving.

Every time I come across this argument, I don't understand why people come to this argument. Finally understand that this is not even close to a cloak. It's more like a robe that the ZOS were too lazy to work on. The fact of the matter is that this costume would look normal if they tried to implement the mechanics of cloaks. And the engine would have handled it. If you think that the engine will not cope because physics is needed, then you are simply missing the obvious - physics is not required for cloak. Look at the flags on the high island. This is not physics, but animation. Cloaks can be animated more or less acceptably. They just need to be given a separate skeleton grid (and not tied to their legs, as they did for the Breton costume). So simply put, no. The Breton suit is rather an argument for why the cloaks should have been added as a separate mechanic, rather than just tying the cloak to the legs. Look at the Khajiit, and imagine if their tails were tied to their legs. This is what happened to Breton's costume.

TaSheen

No cloaks, thank you.

DrogB

fizzylu wrote: »

@Elsonso
Actually, they can't. They tried and gave up/failed. From the rigging of them, the physics, everything.... they looked terrible and were even making the already bad performance of the game worse.

I made a comparison using a WoW character model and that games capes for another thread about the lack of capes in ESO awhile back.

The first picture is ESO when it once upon a time had capes. The problems they had with them are obvious even just visually, now add to that the code and their questionable understanding of how to program games.... the only way ESO would ever have capes is if they completely remake the game, properly this time.

Now, what they could do is create more set appearances with pouches/tomes/scarves/collars/etc instead of just onesies with metal bits.... but they rarely even bother to do that much.

Honestly? I'm fine with this:



I don't mind, they could just reduce the animation movements and they could work just fine.

DrogB

LunaFlora wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Maybe having dynamic Cape movements wouldn’t work, but why isn’t it possible to make Capes part of our character’s skeleton?

Just like an Argonian tail, the cape would be part of the character and play an array of static movements. And also just like player Body Markings, a new category of customization such as Cape Design could be made which colors the cape.

Surely this task be given to a professional animator to create realistic animations for each direction of movement, slowing down, running, etc.

Just an idea. I could be wrong but it seems viable (as opposed to dynamic cape movement which ZOS has said wouldn’t work due to performance).

so what would happen with tails if capes did get added?

Most capes go over your legs, right?
but for tailed characters the back flaps on outfit styles simply get disabled. so capes would probably also be disabled.
Otherwise the capes and tails would clip through eachother.

I can coexist just as well as I coexist with skirts.

DrogB

Artem_gig wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Yeah. Take a look at the "Breton Hero" costume.... from the back, while moving.

Every time I come across this argument, I don't understand why people come to this argument. Finally understand that this is not even close to a cloak. It's more like a robe that the ZOS were too lazy to work on. The fact of the matter is that this costume would look normal if they tried to implement the mechanics of cloaks. And the engine would have handled it. If you think that the engine will not cope because physics is needed, then you are simply missing the obvious - physics is not required for cloak. Look at the flags on the high island. This is not physics, but animation. Cloaks can be animated more or less acceptably. They just need to be given a separate skeleton grid (and not tied to their legs, as they did for the Breton costume). So simply put, no. The Breton suit is rather an argument for why the cloaks should have been added as a separate mechanic, rather than just tying the cloak to the legs. Look at the Khajiit, and imagine if their tails were tied to their legs. This is what happened to Breton's costume.

I agree

DrogB

It seems that it is doable. As for shields, greatswords and staves, it would be enough to hide them, as well as the tails of the Khaji and Argonians.(which already happens with backpacks).

In fact, the tail that comes out like this is not very inviting.