Thoughts on Necromancer class changes in U43?

CameraBeardThePirate

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Lol what? Hexproof is the best purge in the game. 1600 health to remove 4 effects is ludicrously good. You're going to take that much damage from 4 dots ticking anyways if you leave them on, so the cost is essentially free.

Well yes, you can make dots to do thier job quicker by dealing 1.6k damage to yourself, or you can remove 3 dots from yourself and allies in the area, and also heal for 10k+ in burst and same amount over 5 seconds.

You aren't "making the dots do their job quicker". The 1600 health cost is the same (or even less) damage as 4 dots ticking a single tick on you. You're basically just taking a single tick and purging vs allowing them to continue to tick for the duration.

I'm not arguing that Renewing Undeath is bad either - it's one of the best/most cost efficient heals in the game, but it requires a corpse and costs a decent amount of mag. It's a different use case entirely. Hexproof is an incredibly powerful ability and the fact that it costs health is a positive, not a negative.

necro_the_crafter

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

You aren't "making the dots do their job quicker". The 1600 health cost is the same (or even less) damage as 4 dots ticking a single tick on you. You're basically just taking a single tick and purging vs allowing them to continue to tick for the duration.
I'm not arguing that Renewing Undeath is bad either - it's one of the best/most cost efficient heals in the game, but it requires a corpse and costs a decent amount of mag. It's a different use case entirely. Hexproof is an incredibly powerful ability and the fact that it costs health is a positive, not a negative.

Still not buyin it. Would much rather have major expedition + deroot + snare immunity for 4 seconds at the cost of health than purge. Maybe even as a toggle for health per second cost like vampires damage buff. In the end they both cleanse, and one is working clearly better for me than the other, which make other one feel like its redundant.

BasP

One common complaint seems to be that the Necromancer lacks DOTs despite having a passive that increases the damage of DOTs. I'm not sure if Blood Sacrifice is commonly used by healers (I only play solo), but if it isn't, perhaps that morph could be turned into a sticky DOT? Maybe it could cost Health too, to go with the name. It'd be something like:

"Sacrifice your own power to deal X Disease Damage over 20 seconds to your enemy while applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and damage shield strength by 6%."

And then it could have a secondary effect such as:

• Deals up to 150% more damage to enemies under 50% Health.
• Applies Minor Cowardice (or Minor Lifesteal) to the enemy.
• You deal 5% more damage with class abilities against the enemy.
• You restore 75 magicka and stamina when you deal damage with a light or heavy attack against the enemy.
• Et cetera.

Depending on the damage and secondary effect, I could see myself slotting something like that.

necro_the_crafter

BasP wrote: »

One common complaint seems to be that the Necromancer lacks DOTs despite having a passive that increases the damage of DOTs. I'm not sure if Blood Sacrifice is commonly used by healers (I only play solo), but if it isn't, perhaps that morph could be turned into a sticky DOT? Maybe it could cost Health too, to go with the name. It'd be something like:

"Sacrifice your own power to deal X Disease Damage over 20 seconds to your enemy while applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and damage shield strength by 6%."

And then it could have a secondary effect such as:

• Deals up to 150% more damage to enemies under 50% Health.
• Applies Minor Cowardice (or Minor Lifesteal) to the enemy.
• You deal 5% more damage with class abilities against the enemy.
• You restore 75 magicka and stamina when you deal damage with a light or heavy attack against the enemy.
• Et cetera.

Depending on the damage and secondary effect, I could see myself slotting something like that.

Yes, but its should be done to all necros skilllines, just dense them out and remove redundancy, and then free up some space for something much more useful. I guess this will take a long time to implement, but its pretty much needed at that point.

Things like tethers could be a one skill with two different morphs, they are so similar in nature, and on most necro build are exlusionary, you either run a healing one or a damaging one but not both. Semms like a two morphs of one skill.

Bone tyrant has a totem and gravegrasp that can be condensed in one actually good aoe cc.

Both purges can be condenced into one skill.

At this point i would rather had removed both blightbones and gls, but made archer/mage a second active after summon that allowes you to tranform them into blastbones and deal damage based on a time they stayed up (max damage at 10s duration) (simmilar to wardens budding seeds that can be activated twice), or to fire themseleves as the ability runs out.

And just like this we have four new skillslots that could be a much needed single target sticky dot in place of a thether, another powerfull summon in place of gls/bb, single target unblockable and/or undodgable cc in place of totem, and deroot + snare immunity + major expidition in place of expunge or renewing undeath.

necro_the_crafter

BasP wrote: »

One common complaint seems to be that the Necromancer lacks DOTs despite having a passive that increases the damage of DOTs. I'm not sure if Blood Sacrifice is commonly used by healers (I only play solo), but if it isn't, perhaps that morph could be turned into a sticky DOT? Maybe it could cost Health too, to go with the name. It'd be something like:

"Sacrifice your own power to deal X Disease Damage over 20 seconds to your enemy while applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and damage shield strength by 6%."

And then it could have a secondary effect such as:

• Deals up to 150% more damage to enemies under 50% Health.
• Applies Minor Cowardice (or Minor Lifesteal) to the enemy.
• You deal 5% more damage with class abilities against the enemy.
• You restore 75 magicka and stamina when you deal damage with a light or heavy attack against the enemy.
• Et cetera.

Depending on the damage and secondary effect, I could see myself slotting something like that.

Yes, but its should be done to all necros skilllines, just dense them out and remove redundancy, and then free up some space for something much more useful. I guess this will take a long time to implement, but its pretty much needed at that point.

Things like tethers could be a one skill with two different morphs, they are so similar in nature, and on most necro build are exlusionary, you either run a healing one or a damaging one but not both. Semms like a two morphs of one skill.

Bone tyrant has a totem and gravegrasp that can be condensed in one actually good aoe cc.

Both purges can be condenced into one skill.

At this point i would rather had removed both blightbones and gls, but made archer/mage a second active after summon that allowes you to tranform them into blastbones and deal damage based on a time they stayed up (max damage at 10s duration) (simmilar to wardens budding seeds that can be activated twice), or to fire themseleves as the ability runs out.

And just like this we have four new skillslots that could be a much needed single target sticky dot in place of a thether, another powerfull summon in place of gls/bb (cool if it gonna act like sorcs permanent pet with its own skill, that can also be used as walking corpse for your corpse consuming abilities), single target unblockable and/or undodgable cc in place of totem, and deroot + snare immunity + major expidition in place of expunge or renewing undeath.

Urvoth

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

One common complaint seems to be that the Necromancer lacks DOTs despite having a passive that increases the damage of DOTs. I'm not sure if Blood Sacrifice is commonly used by healers (I only play solo), but if it isn't, perhaps that morph could be turned into a sticky DOT? Maybe it could cost Health too, to go with the name. It'd be something like:

"Sacrifice your own power to deal X Disease Damage over 20 seconds to your enemy while applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and damage shield strength by 6%."

And then it could have a secondary effect such as:

• Deals up to 150% more damage to enemies under 50% Health.
• Applies Minor Cowardice (or Minor Lifesteal) to the enemy.
• You deal 5% more damage with class abilities against the enemy.
• You restore 75 magicka and stamina when you deal damage with a light or heavy attack against the enemy.
• Et cetera.

Depending on the damage and secondary effect, I could see myself slotting something like that.

Yes, but its should be done to all necros skilllines, just dense them out and remove redundancy, and then free up some space for something much more useful. I guess this will take a long time to implement, but its pretty much needed at that point.

Things like tethers could be a one skill with two different morphs, they are so similar in nature, and on most necro build are exlusionary, you either run a healing one or a damaging one but not both. Semms like a two morphs of one skill.

Bone tyrant has a totem and gravegrasp that can be condensed in one actually good aoe cc.

Both purges can be condenced into one skill.

At this point i would rather had removed both blightbones and gls, but made archer/mage a second active after summon that allowes you to tranform them into blastbones and deal damage based on a time they stayed up (max damage at 10s duration) (simmilar to wardens budding seeds that can be activated twice), or to fire themseleves as the ability runs out.

And just like this we have four new skillslots that could be a much needed single target sticky dot in place of a thether, another powerfull summon in place of gls/bb (cool if it gonna act like sorcs permanent pet with its own skill, that can also be used as walking corpse for your corpse consuming abilities), single target unblockable and/or undodgable cc in place of totem, and deroot + snare immunity + major expidition in place of expunge or renewing undeath.

Exactly this, way too much redundancy on mediocre skills and not enough actually useful damage options.