Please do NOT include the vote/recommend aspect to Home Tours

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't need others to support my position to not participate. I will do what I feel is right for me.

Well, yeah. But maybe your feedback can help the developers to change the way it works before it releases. I don't think the point in the question is to convince you to participate. It's to better understand and potentially support your position. I think your voice, and everyone else's who feels this feature might be abusive, could potentially be important to any changes that make it less vulnerable to manipulation and abuse.

But if you don't want to share, obviously you don't have to. That's perfectly okay!

.

SilverBride wrote: »

Why implement a rating system that is so easily manipulated and has such a high potential for abuse?

I already gave my reason why. What more needs to be said?

Araneae6537

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Because I think it's a very bad idea and I refuse to be part of it. No further explanation is needed.

No, only needed if you want others to understand and potentially support your position, but nevermind.

I don't need others to support my position to not participate. I will do what I feel is right for me.

Well, yeah. But maybe your feedback can help the developers to change the way it works before it releases. I don't think the point in the question is to convince you to participate. It's to better understand and potentially support your position. I think your voice, and everyone else's who feels this feature might be abusive, could potentially be important to any changes that make it less vulnerable to manipulation and abuse.

But if you don't want to share, obviously you don't have to. That's perfectly okay!

Yes, exactly, @spartaxoxo thank you! I’m not trying to challenge anyone or say their feelings or decisions are wrong, but to understand why some people are really against there being a recommendation system. It might also be useful to ZOS to know what aspects or the why of people’s concerns.

TheImperfect

I feel like everyone should not take it to heart if their builds don't get voted. Not everyone builds/furnishes for the same reason or intent. For examply my own homes will not likely be to most peoples taste. They are not overly showy, don't have a lot of flashy stuff generally and I don't usually (open to it and may / possibly have) build over houses into something new or cobble a lot. I like traditional homes my characters can live in. Most people visiting want to be awestruck by something amazing and I get that and that maybe what I create isn't quite that. I also like to keep it ESO generally and don't like bringing real world stuff in like for example Harry Potter etc.

When there are so many amazing quality homes, a lot of people are going to be overlooked. It doesn't mean their homes aren't good or valuable to the housing community because everyone likes something different and resonates with different styles. Some homes are more naturally awe-worthy but there are other factors like how much time and energy a person has etc (sometimes money although most homes can be done with in game resources).
I've liked some homes others would consider mundane because they have character or were cosy in some way etc.

I at least feel it should not be public if you liked or did not like a persons home and the person can see how many favorites they have but not who favorited them. That gives people the ability not to be pressured into rating homes.

Overall I really like this update and feel it will enhance the housing community for the better.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't need others to support my position to not participate. I will do what I feel is right for me.

Well, yeah. But maybe your feedback can help the developers to change the way it works before it releases. I don't think the point in the question is to convince you to participate. It's to better understand and potentially support your position. I think your voice, and everyone else's who feels this feature might be abusive, could potentially be important to any changes that make it less vulnerable to manipulation and abuse.

But if you don't want to share, obviously you don't have to. That's perfectly okay!

.

SilverBride wrote: »

Why implement a rating system that is so easily manipulated and has such a high potential for abuse?

I already gave my reason why. What more needs to be said?

I don't understand what you mean by high potential for abuse? What abuse do you mean? Could you give an example?

freespirit

I'm unlikely to use the new system, I already do not use the EHT Hub.

I can give my reasons.....

I have in the past received "advice" from the supposedly supportive housing community. the advice was not asked for neither was it friendly or constructive.

I am not opening myself up for any type of negative interactions as my mental health is more important to me!

I am not an artist, nor a designer but I love challenging myself to make each build better than the last, something I feel I sometimes achieve.

I will carry on doing the things I love doing and show them to people who I trust not to be disparaging unnecessarily.

I will also continue to run Housing Comps for my guilds, supply the prizes and encourage all those that enter, nobody ends up with nothing, I send EVERY entrant a selection of goodies.

I just don't feel this new feature will in any way add to my enjoyment of housing BUT I will watch with interest when it releases!!

Araneae6537

I’m so sorry to hear that you had a negative experience, @freespirit !
Even constructive criticism should not be given unsolicited, and deliberately putting someone down disguised as advice is just low. My experience with housing guilds and contests in ESO has been incredibly positive, but there will always be exceptions. Again, I’m sad to hear that you experienced such and can understand why you choose not to risk such again.

spartaxoxo

freespirit wrote: »

I have in the past received "advice" from the supposedly supportive housing community. the advice was not asked for neither was it friendly or constructive.

I am not opening myself up for any type of negative interactions as my mental health is more important to me!

Thank for sharing. I hadn't even thought of that. Do you feel that people may send mail with these rude comments to those who's creations are showcased?

tindomiel4

I may have missed it in the announcement video, but did they discuss anything related to ESO+ and this system? We're already struggling with furnishing limits. Some players having double (or half) the furnishing limit of others seems to tilt the recommendation likelihood, even before player-driven manipulation kicks in.

I'm with the OP and others. I am incredibly tired of leaderboards and competition being shoved into every crevice just to keep us grinding. Housing is one of my favorite things in this game, which is why I joined housing guilds. I LOVE visiting people's houses for fun, having them visit mine, and cheering each other on. So many housing-related improvements (hello, plan availability in West Weald!) players have been begging for, and this is all they could come up with? I'm really disappointed.

freespirit

spartaxoxo wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

I have in the past received "advice" from the supposedly supportive housing community. the advice was not asked for neither was it friendly or constructive.

I am not opening myself up for any type of negative interactions as my mental health is more important to me!

Thank for sharing. I hadn't even thought of that. Do you feel that people may send mail with these rude comments to those who's creations are showcased?

I really don't know, we may all be worrying over things that won't transpire, until it's live speculation is all we have.

I am however of the mind that for me personally this system could be anxiety inducing.

aetherial_heavenn

Apparently my earlier comment on this was in the wrong thread so here's the gist

I enjoy visiting people's houses and I like to see who has seen mine. The old EHT system seemed designed as co-operative rather than competitive. ie it has been the equivalent of 'come see this great band/piece of art I found' because there were no rewards other than sharing our favourites.

Privately favouriting houses for later visits, and to show others, and even having a (voluntary to sign) guest book like the current EHT/Housing Hub has is a great way to show others, remember builds that inspired you and acknowledge the owner. (I've only ever had positive comments through the mail system under the current EHT system. I feel great when I get the occasional great build mail from other housers. )

I do NOT want a ranking/recommendation/visitor count/vote system that inevitably will draw the most attention to individuals in huge guilds, funded streamers, and commission builders by incentivising self promotion, which will then create an even smaller clique of self promoters so that those builds, which may not even be original or the 'best' builds, become the only ones showcased through the activity finder.

To change the system so housing becomes a "buy bums on seats to get publicity to get in activity finder to get money for commissions" is going to cause more shenanigans than selling trials carries ever has.

Housing has always been more art than commerce for most of us. It seems typical of the current marketing driven climate that even that joyful creative space could now just become another gold/crown driven enterprise/industry for a few, while excluding the creative many from any recognition.

ALSO
By default limit the use of F5 inspect in open houses. I have no issue with people I give decorator permissions to, being able to inspect my cobbles, or turn on and off my lights, but that function should not be available so any random can copy a great build, pay their mates to visit it/rank their plagiarised build and then get promoted in the activity finder. This would be a recipe for disaster.


edited: For those who didn't realise the reason for our concern here's two direct quotes from the promotional blurb on the update preview

so if you’re interested in seeing all sorts of homes or in viewing the most popular creations, you can browse the top player homes in the Recommended tab of Home Tours. Whatever way you search, friends and guildmates will be specially tagged in the feed for easy recognition.

Your own home may be featured as a recommended home in the Activity Finder if it becomes popular enough!

and here's the thread about copying

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/660440/creation-copying-without-permission-using-eht#latest

tindomiel4

freespirit wrote: »

I am however of the mind that for me personally this system could be anxiety inducing.

Me too. And even if, as some will suggest, I decide to completely ignore the new system, its effects will very likely bleed into housing more broadly and turn me off the whole thing.

I really, really hope ZOS listens to the cautionary feedback (and no, I do not expect them to). After they took away Q4 story/zone content, I figured at least I still had crafting and housing to enjoy. But the way they went with theoretically crafter-rewarding events, and the way they're apparently going with this has me wondering what kind of future there is in the game for people who aren't interested in hardcore combat or battling other players in every activity.

Araneae6537

Thank you for the thoughtful perspective, @aetherial_heavenn
Considering all these points, I must agree that the new feature would be better without the recommendation / feature aspect. Alas, it seems unlikely to me that ZOS will remove it after it being part of the announcement.

spartaxoxo

@freespirit @aetherial_heavenn

Ty for sharing. I originally thought that there was probably not much room for abuse since it seemed like it was not a star rating system and they didn't show the number of recommendations a house received. But seeing these posts makes me realize it goes a lot deeper than that! I hadn't really thought of things like copying builds wholesale or how it might change the spirit of touring homes. It's certainly food for thought! I will reserve opinion until I can actually see it, but now I agree that the rating part certainly sounds like it might not be good!

ElvenOverlord

Good thing it’s optional.

Jaraal

WolfCombatPet wrote: »

Imagine the awkwardness of trying to come up with something to say when you don't like someone's build *enough* to be a recommendation to other players.

Can somebody explain to me how this works? I have no experience with it.

Is there some sort of form you have to fill out to vote when you enter a house? How would the owner know if you voted for their house or not? Do the owners stand around all day in their houses waiting for people to drop in, and then ask visitors if they are going to recommend their house or not? I can't imagine ever asking anyone if they were going to vote for my house. Is this common? And are the recommendations not anonymous? Can everyone see a list of who recommends what?

LunaFlora

as far as we know there isnt a number for amount of recommendations or favourites a listed house has.
So you wouldn't know whether or not somebody rated your listed house.

I_killed_Vivec

Casdha wrote: »

Waiting for this to get moved to housing to reduce the viewing traffic.

Now,,,,,

I thought of this as a possibility which is why if I ever list a home it will be my sleek creek house, why? because it is my dump house. It is close to a wayshrine and it is where I dump all of my furnishings that I don't want to destroy in case I find a use for them later. Once it is full I will move to another.

I bought several strategic (mostly cheep) homes just to have free travel to zones (at least one in each) so a new character immediately has access to each zone (works even better after they added outside arrival). I will never use them so I thought why not make them furnishing banks.

Me too, and most are stuffed with the results of the endeavours requiring me to place 7 furnishings. If I'm feeling "artistic" it will be undaunted trophies on the wall. If I'm not I'll just dump stuff on the floor.

colossalvoids

After this "feature" would launch the best you'll do to actually change something about it or be heard is to not participate in it.

It's not something that can be brushed off easily by "but we don't known the popularity of it, many people do love it" like it was with tot or some other features. It would be on display for the whole playerbase to observe via new menu, so company would also want it to be well populated to show that people are active in game.

AnduinTryggva

I rather won't put my houses to be accessible by everybody. If I like to share my builds I would make screenshots and post them here.

We have guided tours organized by my housing guild and I think that's enough publicity I need for my homes.

Also I don't like that voting functionality. We already know how voting up and down works in social media and we definitely do not need anything similar in ESO.

My housing guild has pretty strict rules on what is acceptable feedback and while I sometimes miss some constructive critique I fully understand why this policy is in place.

I don't see ZOS to implement a similar policy and I don't expect good for the community since there are enough bad apples in every box to waste the apple pie.

kevkj

Does this Housing Recommendation Mafia have any overlap with the Shadow Trading Cartel often whispered about on the forums? Do you guys think that perhaps we should report this instance of organized crime activity to the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (because ZOS is American)?

Kappachi

voting is fine. Phantasy Star Online 2 had this system and if your place is deserving of it then it'll get votes even without advertisements/guild endorsements. Might not be #1 but it'll be there.

Sepultura_13

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

I do NOT want a ranking/recommendation/visitor count/vote system that inevitably will draw the most attention to individuals in huge guilds, funded streamers, and commission builders by incentivising self promotion, which will then create an even smaller clique of self promoters so that those builds, which may not even be original or the 'best' builds, become the only ones showcased through the activity finder.

To change the system so housing becomes a "buy bums on seats to get publicity to get in activity finder to get money for commissions" is going to cause more shenanigans than selling trials carries ever has.

This, right here. Cliques, and the behaviour of those in them, tend to be too toxic for my tastes.

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Good thing it’s optional.

Thank the gods...I'm definitely opting out.

Casdha

A question with perspective




Why did ZOS see fit to change the way the forums themselves got feedback,,,, Anyone remember?

tom6143346

I will not use the systems at all but if I get the chance to sell my votes I will . Sounds great to me

SilverBride

Casdha wrote: »

A question with perspective




Why did ZOS see fit to change the way the forums themselves got feedback,,,, Anyone remember?

freespirit

Casdha wrote: »

A question with perspective




Why did ZOS see fit to change the way the forums themselves got feedback,,,, Anyone remember?

You know what I'm not 100% sure but didn't they remove the LOL reaction because they felt it was being used to troll posters?

If so maybe they should rethink this new feature too!!

Casdha

SilverBride wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

A question with perspective




Why did ZOS see fit to change the way the forums themselves got feedback,,,, Anyone remember?

I'll see your 5 and raise ya

SilverBride

Casdha wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

A question with perspective




Why did ZOS see fit to change the way the forums themselves got feedback,,,, Anyone remember?

I'll see your 5 and raise ya

I've been out LoL'd!

tindomiel4

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

We have guided tours organized by my housing guild and I think that's enough publicity I need for my homes.

...

My housing guild has pretty strict rules on what is acceptable feedback and while I sometimes miss some constructive critique I fully understand why this policy is in place.

I'm also curious how this will bleed into guilds. Will my housing guilds try to ignore it and carry on as usual? Will they lock down and permit no intrusion of the new system in guild contests/tours/operations/member publicity? Or will they give up hosting their own tour events and default to the new system? Or start linking guild ranks or office holding to the new system?

And I'm still interested in how this is supposed to work out with regards to ESO+. (If anyone has heard anything, please share!)

tindomiel4

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

and here's the thread about copying

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/660440/creation-copying-without-permission-using-eht#latest

Thank you for sharing this. It's especially disheartening to read that thread (and ZOS actually stepping into it and commenting!) in light of Friday's announcement.