Creation copying without permission using EHT

Mloking · June 13

Greetings players and admins.

I'm making this post because some people, who spend a lot of time creating houses in this game, are tired of the EASY posibility of copying creations with a certain add-on - Essential Housing Tools (EHT).

To make it clear, I do NOT want this add-on to be disabled. It has a lot of very useful features, including the posibility for players to show off their homes to other people.
EHT has been working without major issues fine until approx. December 2022, when housing inspection mode was introduced. Before this update, people could make blueprints of their creations, or other people's creations WHEN they had permission as a decorator. After mentioned update, there were no limitations. People are now able to make blueprints of any accessible house.

Me and my dear friend Ayalockheart have found this feature at the very beginning. I contacted the admin of the add-on - @Cardinal05 - about this issue. I got a reply, which was most likely a misunderstanding, saying that this feature was for harmless intent, not understanding what I was trying to say. I do not remember if I sent another mail, was quite a long time ago, but I did try to contact Cardinal later on via mail (full inbox) and discord (no reply).

Not sure how often people make copies of other people's houses, players with sense will not make them public. BUT some people do make them public without a mention of the original designer - seeming as if they made it. And it just sucks.

Yes, copying will always be an unavoidable thing, but why make it easier?

The housing community is very close to each other, so we inform others about public copies. My houses have been copied in a way where people tried to recreate to the detail, which you can see when it is "handmade", or a way where a person just makes a blueprint with EHT of my build and pops it into their house - it is very obvious - pixel perfect.

I really just want to bring attention to this issue, and asking Cardinal05 or Architectura to look into this and fix it, thank you.

ReeceLavellan · June 13

I have seen so many talented people in the housing community affected by this. It’s very upsetting for them and can make them feel on edge and anxious that more of their builds (which take days, weeks, if not months sometimes to create) stolen from them and published without asking and without credit.

As Mloking stated, EHT is a great addon and I don’t think anyone in the housing community wants it removed or destroyed by any means. It’s just this one feature that needs to be updated/removed. I love the fact that I can build something in one house and then move it to another if I need to. But no one else should be able to do that unless they have decorator permissions. There is no excuse for stealing/plagiarising art from hard working talented artists.

vsrs_au · June 13

I assume that for a copy to be made, whoever's doing the copying must have at least visitor permission? I just revoked all permissions to 2 of my houses because of this thread.

Necrotech_Master · June 13

vsrs_au wrote: »

I assume that for a copy to be made, whoever's doing the copying must have at least visitor permission? I just revoked all permissions to 2 of my houses because of this thread.

the person would likely have to get into the house in order to do this

it likely has to do with the inspection mode they added to housing awhile ago, which allows anyone who can visit the house the ability to inspect whats there, even if they only have "limited visitor" permissions (the inspection mode is basically the same as the edit mode, except it doesnt have edit ability, just viewing where items are located, which is probably what EHT uses to re-create "conglomerate objects" such as the examples here by saving the item/coordinates)

probably a good middle ground is for zos to disable the inspection mode for limited visitor role

Araneae6537 · June 13

It would be ideal if just this particular feature of the add-on could be disabled. I do like the inspect feature to see how something was done for learning purposes. I guess removing it from limited visitor would be one option. It would be great if builders had more individual control over these things (both over whether individual furnishings are intractable or not as well as whether or not inspection mode can be used).

It’s disgusting that people try to pass off others’ work as their own. How is that even satisfying???

BetweenMidgets · June 13

I definitely sympathize with those that this has happened to. I really hate to see this happen. I hate to say it, but I'm fairly certain I've seen a copy of your first cathedral on NA.

I hope some nice resolution can be found so that folks can still back up their builds, or export ones made on PTS so they can replicate it on live, but without the risk of others stealing.

My one point of conflict in the pictures you posted is the one of a "copy" of Ayalockheart's creation. That one is definitely not a copy, as different items are even used in the build. I could grant they likely took inspiration from Ayalockheart's great creation, but that one does not demonstrate someone exporting a build via EHT and then uploading an exact copy. I believe that particular instance does not help your case.

Mloking · June 13

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I definitely sympathize with those that this has happened to. I really hate to see this happen. I hate to say it, but I'm fairly certain I've seen a copy of your first cathedral on NA.

I hope some nice resolution can be found so that folks can still back up their builds, or export ones made on PTS so they can replicate it on live, but without the risk of others stealing.

My one point of conflict in the pictures you posted is the one of a "copy" of Ayalockheart's creation. That one is definitely not a copy, as different items are even used in the build. I could grant they likely took inspiration from Ayalockheart's great creation, but that one does not demonstrate someone exporting a build via EHT and then uploading an exact copy. I believe that particular instance does not help your case.

It could not be done with EHT, but is very likely to be except few things, doesnt need to be the whole build, but the layout of the whole build is almost identical except few furnishings, i dont think it makes this post less relevant though. I do have my waters edge folder with eht copy somewhere i forgot to find it.

BetweenMidgets · June 13

IMO your issue with EHT is valid and the inclusion things that "could not be done with EHT" but very similar isn't helpful and could have people discount the point I think you're making - that it IS possible to make a copy of someone's work and then "place" that work in your own home with a few clicks.

The one I pointed out doesn't help your case and could muddy the water, is all I'm saying.
I don't think many people would condemn someone taking inspiration and doing the work to make something similar. The two have more than a handful of things that are dissimilar.

Soarora · June 13

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

IMO your issue with EHT is valid and the inclusion things that "could not be done with EHT" but very similar isn't helpful and could have people discount the point I think you're making - that it IS possible to make a copy of someone's work and then "place" that work in your own home with a few clicks.

The one I pointed out doesn't help your case and could muddy the water, is all I'm saying.
I don't think many people would condemn someone taking inspiration and doing the work to make something similar. The two have more than a handful of things that are dissimilar.

Just because a few furnishings are missing doesn’t mean its not a copy. Some of the missing ones are achievement furnishings that the copier might just not have. To me, the example could be something other than a direct copy but if it is something else its heavy referencing, something that’s condemned in the drawn art community so I don’t see why it should be okay here. If someone wants inspiration, they can take parts of the build but not the entire thing to the point the resemblance is glaringly obvious…

Mloking · June 13

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

IMO your issue with EHT is valid and the inclusion things that "could not be done with EHT" but very similar isn't helpful and could have people discount the point I think you're making - that it IS possible to make a copy of someone's work and then "place" that work in your own home with a few clicks.

The one I pointed out doesn't help your case and could muddy the water, is all I'm saying.
I don't think many people would condemn someone taking inspiration and doing the work to make something similar. The two have more than a handful of things that are dissimilar.

All im gonna say to this is that its done by the same person who has a copy of one of the chapels.

Elsonso · June 13

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

vsrs_au · June 14

Elsonso wrote: »

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

No input from ZOS should be needed, as far as I can see. The EHT source code already contains some code checking for different levels of house permission, so the addon could be updated to only allow the copying action if the visitor has the "decorate" permission.

Elsonso · June 14

vsrs_au wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

No input from ZOS should be needed, as far as I can see. The EHT source code already contains some code checking for different levels of house permission, so the addon could be updated to only allow the copying action if the visitor has the "decorate" permission.

Pandora's box. If an addon can do it, any addon can do it. Remove it from EHT and it can simply reappear in another place. If ZOS fixes by changing the game, then every addon will be prevented from doing it.

vsrs_au · June 14

Elsonso wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

No input from ZOS should be needed, as far as I can see. The EHT source code already contains some code checking for different levels of house permission, so the addon could be updated to only allow the copying action if the visitor has the "decorate" permission.

Pandora's box. If an addon can do it, any addon can do it. Remove it from EHT and it can simply reappear in another place. If ZOS fixes by changing the game, then every addon will be prevented from doing it.

Yes, but it takes coding and effort, so that will narrow down the list of players willing to rip off other players' house builds to those willing to put in that effort. In the SHORT term, updating EHT is a good enough solution. But I agree the long-term solution would need ZOS to update the API to remove this exploit.

evymyu233 · June 14

I also think this is not good. It will make the original author sad, and they may not share the house in the future.

PrincessOfThieves · June 14

Elsonso wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

No input from ZOS should be needed, as far as I can see. The EHT source code already contains some code checking for different levels of house permission, so the addon could be updated to only allow the copying action if the visitor has the "decorate" permission.

Pandora's box. If an addon can do it, any addon can do it. Remove it from EHT and it can simply reappear in another place. If ZOS fixes by changing the game, then every addon will be prevented from doing it.

I honestly don't think that people who are so lazy that they copy other's stuff can make a complex addon like this.

Falagar · June 14

So as someone that was copied (at least only once as far as I can tell), I have a conflicting opinion.

I don't mind people copying me as long as they don't pass it off as their own creation and/or enter housing contests with it. In some ways it's the highest form of praise & if it makes someone happy, why would I care.

Of course the problem arises if they do pass it off as their own or enter contests with it.

I'm a person that comes up with a housing idea and the first thing I do is I go to the EHT housing hub and travel around other houses for inspiration and ideas, I feel like I'm still new to the housing scene and I don't have the level of intricate knowledge of every furnishing that exists. So traveling around and at times inspecting "hey what's this item", and so on, makes me a better builder in general.

So I personally would hate for people to resort to having inspect mode being disabled!

However a solution (if even possible) I think would make sense is simply disabling the copy/paste import/export function in any houses you do not own yourself.

Yes technically someone could just write a new addon to add that functionality back, but as PrincessOfThieves mentioned - I don't think the kind of person that would copy & paste another person's creation would go through the work of doing that.

That's my 2 cents.

Mloking · June 14

Falagar wrote: »

So as someone that was copied (at least only once as far as I can tell), I have a conflicting opinion.

I don't mind people copying me as long as they don't pass it off as their own creation and/or enter housing contests with it. In some ways it's the highest form of praise & if it makes someone happy, why would I care.

Of course the problem arises if they do pass it off as their own or enter contests with it.

I'm a person that comes up with a housing idea and the first thing I do is I go to the EHT housing hub and travel around other houses for inspiration and ideas, I feel like I'm still new to the housing scene and I don't have the level of intricate knowledge of every furnishing that exists. So traveling around and at times inspecting "hey what's this item", and so on, makes me a better builder in general.

So I personally would hate for people to resort to having inspect mode being disabled!

However a solution (if even possible) I think would make sense is simply disabling the copy/paste import/export function in any houses you do not own yourself.

Yes technically someone could just write a new addon to add that functionality back, but as PrincessOfThieves mentioned - I don't think the kind of person that would copy & paste another person's creation would go through the work of doing that.

That's my 2 cents.

Oh yes, being inspired or being a big fan of someones house to the measure where you want to own it as well i think is fine. If you never make it public no one will ever know, if you for whatever reason want to make it public - ask the creator for permission and tag/mention the original creator - most of the time i think they will agree (at least i dont mind it). Ive had the experience of someone recreating my builds few times, they make it public but never mention me? I just dont understand some people's logic.. I like inspection mode and i do not want any functions to be disabled - just limited.

Loloth · June 14

Lilithnya here, big time housing fan and long-time builder, just adding my own two cents to Mloking's statement

As a whole, the housing community is the kindest, selfless, most resourceful people I have ever met. We trade ideas, cobbles and we inspire each other daily. I'm a better builder thanks to the things I have seen others do, and vice-versa.

Our loveliness stops entirely when someone steals entire builds without permission or without asking the original creator if they're okay with it.

EHT is a wonderful addon and we love it, but copy/pasting something so easily diminishes the value we put in the houses we create. Sure it's just a game, sure it's nothing compared to real-life plagiarism, but at the end of the day, housing is a hobby that we put our hearts and souls into and having our hard work so lazily and mindlessly copied cheapens it.

I implore Zos to at least let Cardinal know about this in case it's still possible to make updates, pretty please

Ayalockheart · June 14

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

My one point of conflict in the pictures you posted is the one of a "copy" of Ayalockheart's creation. That one is definitely not a copy, as different items are even used in the build. I could grant they likely took inspiration from Ayalockheart's great creation, but that one does not demonstrate someone exporting a build via EHT and then uploading an exact copy. I believe that particular instance does not help your case.

I appreciate your perspective on the matter. However, I must disagree. While some structural items or statues have been changed, likely due to not having the exact items and placing substitutes, the overall design, structure, and concept were undeniably copied (there is much more to that build than what you see here). The placement of everything is exactly as in the original. Inspiration is one thing, but this goes beyond that—it’s a direct imitation of my custom commission. With over 5000 furniture items available, it’s highly improbable for two independent builds to end up looking so similar by coincidence. The changes made do not negate the fact that the entire build was copied.

Furthermore, the person has posted the build on EHT open houses without any credits. This same house has been showcased by streamers with both my permission and the owner’s permission. The fact that one person can just do whatever they want doesn’t make it acceptable or ethical.

I had taken matters into my own hands privately, which is why we are not citing names here but rather showing this as an example of something that isn’t OK. It's disrespectful to the person who took their time to farm and raise the gold to have their unique build and to me, who used a lot of time to come up with what my customer wanted, tailor-made for their needs and intended to be one of a kind.

Ayalockheart · June 14

There is a fine line between inspiration and copying. Inspiration involves taking ideas and elements from someone’s work and using them to create something new and personal. It means being influenced by the original creation while adding your unique touch. Copying, on the other hand, is directly imitating someone else’s work without significant changes or personal touches. If you admire someone’s work, copying it and making alterations without permission can be seen as a form of vandalism, implying a lack of true appreciation for the original. I personally don't know anyone who likes to have their work tagged with someone else's name as if they had made it themselves. Instead, always ask for permission—especially if you truly admire someone's work and want to keep seeing them around. This respects the original creator and maintains the uniqueness of their creation, and in my case, honors the wish of someone to have their build unique as they originally wanted.

BetweenMidgets · June 14

Ayalockheart wrote: »

I appreciate your perspective on the matter. However, I must disagree. While some structural items or statues have been changed, likely due to not having the exact items and placing substitutes, the overall design, structure, and concept were undeniably copied (there is much more to that build than what you see here).

I can only go off what I can see in the pictures provided. From those, it is still my opinion that would fall under inspiration and not copying. You and @Mloking say differently, and as you two are privy to more details, I'm happy to default to you both in this instance.

Either way, and despite that particular instance, I fully agree that copying someone's design is bad. I hope a solution can be found so we can still import/export our builds, but protects them from being ripped off by others.

Ayalockheart · June 14

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Ayalockheart wrote: »

I appreciate your perspective on the matter. However, I must disagree. While some structural items or statues have been changed, likely due to not having the exact items and placing substitutes, the overall design, structure, and concept were undeniably copied (there is much more to that build than what you see here).

I can only go off what I can see in the pictures provided. From those, it is still my opinion that would fall under inspiration and not copying. You and @Mloking say differently, and as you two are privy to more details, I'm happy to default to you both in this instance.

Either way, and despite that particular instance, I fully agree that copying someone's design is bad. I hope a solution can be found so we can still import/export our builds, but protects them from being ripped off by others.

[ Insert Caption Here ]

katanagirl1 · June 14

Wow, it would be nice if this feature was incorporated into the game directly so the devs have more control over it to update it, plus us console users would also be able to save our builds.

tsaescishoeshiner · June 14

Very interesting! I feel that there's no harm in someone copying a house if they see a build that they like, but posting it as an EHT listing is weird. However, EHT eliminating features just to prevent that would take things away from people. (But it wouldn't be a big deal, people will adapt and maybe that change would be worth it.)

My reasoning is like this. I don't think it's possible to "plagiarize" or "steal" someone's housing build because there's no way to "publish" or own a housing build, just like an outfit or a combat build. Since EHT and PTF have no (or very little?) oversight about their public listings, it's not the right place for discussions of credit.

Like an outfit or a combat build, I see my in-game activities and expression as open source and non-owned, and don't want to control or police other people.

I guess I've always seen houses as open source, so saying that someone copying your build "takes away from your work" doesn't make sense to me. Your satisfaction should come from having a product that you created and the time you spent enjoying creating it.

If people wanted to build a verified original creation list, then that community would be the place to discuss ownership and verification. Are EHT or PTF public listings claiming to be verified original creations?

If someone sees my build that someone else copies, either they don't know me well enough to know that I made it, or they're a stranger to me. Actually, so far I've contributed to 3-4 builds in other people's houses, so a visitor wouldn't know what to credit me with unless someone told them.

Mloking · June 14

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Very interesting! I feel that there's no harm in someone copying a house if they see a build that they like, but posting it as an EHT listing is weird. However, EHT eliminating features just to prevent that would take things away from people. (But it wouldn't be a big deal, people will adapt and maybe that change would be worth it.)

My reasoning is like this. I don't think it's possible to "plagiarize" or "steal" someone's housing build because there's no way to "publish" or own a housing build, just like an outfit or a combat build. Since EHT and PTF have no (or very little?) oversight about their public listings, it's not the right place for discussions of credit.

Like an outfit or a combat build, I see my in-game activities and expression as open source and non-owned, and don't want to control or police other people.

I guess I've always seen houses as open source, so saying that someone copying your build "takes away from your work" doesn't make sense to me. Your satisfaction should come from having a product that you created and the time you spent enjoying creating it.

If people wanted to build a verified original creation list, then that community would be the place to discuss ownership and verification. Are EHT or PTF public listings claiming to be verified original creations?

If someone sees my build that someone else copies, either they don't know me well enough to know that I made it, or they're a stranger to me. Actually, so far I've contributed to 3-4 builds in other people's houses, so a visitor wouldn't know what to credit me with unless someone told them.

This is completely irrelevant, you can make an outfit or build someone else has made, even a house. But only housing now has the function that you can make a lazy exactly same copy. If someone on twitter was making fashion and posting pictures, and someone else would just start doing the same outfits and emotes and settings, of course it would upset the original creator, same as if someone would make set/spell combos on youtube and another person would do the same type of videos and act like they have created it.. You know how long houses like this take to build? Weeks or months, from coming up with a suitable idea and managing slots. Or just classic art - would a person who created a pencil say the person who drew a picture has no claim on their art? Your take makes no sense sorry. And justifying being able to just run around and grab every persons house in seconds.. no comment.

AlterBlika · June 14

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

This thread has made me wonder if Cardinal05 still works for ZOS. If so, he might be able to add influence to a change to ESO where higher authority is required for that feature to even be viable. Assuming he wishes to do so, of course.

No input from ZOS should be needed, as far as I can see. The EHT source code already contains some code checking for different levels of house permission, so the addon could be updated to only allow the copying action if the visitor has the "decorate" permission.

Pandora's box. If an addon can do it, any addon can do it. Remove it from EHT and it can simply reappear in another place. If ZOS fixes by changing the game, then every addon will be prevented from doing it.

I honestly don't think that people who are so lazy that they copy other's stuff can make a complex addon like this.

It already exists. They can simply choose not to update.

SilverBride · June 14

EHT allows players to do other things that I don't think it should, either. There is a function to turn every light source in a house on or off all at once and players can use it in anyone's house without decorator privileges. This also affects other furnishings, such as music boxes and doors and anything that can be turned on and off.

Someone went around and turned off all the lights in 34 of my houses and it took quite awhile to find and fix them all. The only way I could prevent it in the future was to set all my houses to limited visitor which means I had to leave all doors open so visitors could access all the parts of my houses.

I know this could happen if EHT didn't have this feature but it makes it a lot easier for others to harass someone this way. Functions that affect someone else's property should not exist in this, or any add-on.

freespirit · June 14

I've had many people ask me why I don't open my houses for general viewing all of this is why.

I often spend(as mentioned above) several months creating a build, so I like to keep control of who visits them.

Consequently I open them specifically for house tours and lock them down again afterwards, my primary is the only house open all the time.

I love EHT and use it constantly, I do like the copy/paste feature but whilst there exists an opportunity for others to completely copy another's build I do think some kind of adjustment is needed.

RomanRex · June 14

Housing designs aren’t copyrighted. If you don’t want your housing design duplicated, don’t let anyone into your home you don’t trust and don’t share photos/videos.

If you want to showcase your home you risk others replicating it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Take it as a compliment and carry on.

PrincessOfThieves · June 14

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Very interesting! I feel that there's no harm in someone copying a house if they see a build that they like, but posting it as an EHT listing is weird. However, EHT eliminating features just to prevent that would take things away from people. (But it wouldn't be a big deal, people will adapt and maybe that change would be worth it.)

My reasoning is like this. I don't think it's possible to "plagiarize" or "steal" someone's housing build because there's no way to "publish" or own a housing build, just like an outfit or a combat build. Since EHT and PTF have no (or very little?) oversight about their public listings, it's not the right place for discussions of credit.

Like an outfit or a combat build, I see my in-game activities and expression as open source and non-owned, and don't want to control or police other people.

I guess I've always seen houses as open source, so saying that someone copying your build "takes away from your work" doesn't make sense to me. Your satisfaction should come from having a product that you created and the time you spent enjoying creating it.

If people wanted to build a verified original creation list, then that community would be the place to discuss ownership and verification. Are EHT or PTF public listings claiming to be verified original creations?

If someone sees my build that someone else copies, either they don't know me well enough to know that I made it, or they're a stranger to me. Actually, so far I've contributed to 3-4 builds in other people's houses, so a visitor wouldn't know what to credit me with unless someone told them.

Housing builds are much more personal than an outfit or a character build. You can copy someone's outfit unknowingly (and without even seeing them!), but a pixel-perfect copy of someone's build is something that can only be done intentionally. You could give them a benefit of the doubt if it was just a similar layout, or a similar combination of items. But you cannot make a full copy of someone's build without intending to do so.
It is not at all something like using a premade character build. Those are made to be copied to begin with - so that players can skip the testing and theorycrafting part and just enjoy the gameplay. The housing artists generally are not posting their stuff for people to copy, they just want to show their creations. For example, if you post photos and artwork on Instagram, you just want to share it with people, right? You don't want someone to copy your profile and pretend that your work and your photos are theirs.
It gets even worse when it comes to housing contests, when people can steal other player's work and pretend that it's theirs to win a bunch of money.