ESO Live today ..wow

virtus753 · July 3

Aurielle wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Luminous ink in treasure chests and heavy sacks is a nice addition.

Did they happen to mention if they’re changing Plentiful Harvest to be able to proc on those sources? Currently it cannot, which would mean no double Ink from there.

No mention of that whatsoever. No discussion of drop rates, no discussion of the disappointment so many of us have had with scribing due to the low amount of ink available. Just a couple of seconds spent mentioning that ink will now be able to drop from treasure chests and heavy sacks.

Thank you for the info!

TaSheen · July 3

Nothing for me. Good thing I always have GOBS of stuff left to do....

Photosniper89 · July 3

DinoZavr wrote: »

in my humble understanding: very disappointing.

Zeni built up a hype promising a BIG housing feature.
i was expecting furnishing deconstruction at the very least, increasing items limits at least twice, furnishing bag similar to a craftbag - any of these could be really big and very much demanded by the players community features.
What we are getting?: a catalogue. Of course, it means some extra database load for Zeni, but in my humble view - it is not anything BIG or BOLD. why not to listen to players, dear @ZOS ?

Don't worry, PvP is next to be hit with a major let down. "new system coming to pvp".

I now expect it to be a stupid tab in the dungeon finder area where it says dueling and you can select someone who wants to duel.

Watch.

LatentBuzzard · July 3

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Well, it make sense, because problem probably is not with rendering but loading items data - every placed object have specific coordinates of placement and other data (x,y,z axis, rotatation, etc), which we have to load. When you have to load all that data of 700 object - it's a lot. When it be for example 1500 - well, it may crash game on lower machines.

And how may objects do you think those low end machines are loading when they enter a zone or a city ?

ArchangelIsraphel · July 3

Syldras wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

Yeah, that’s… seriously underwhelming. And a rating ability just seems completely open to trolling so that immediately kills any interest in listing houses.

Wait until they introduce a ranking list for that and call it a new PvP feature

That one hurt, Syldras, that hurt real bad XD

Ravensilver · July 3

LunaFlora wrote: »

i don't get how anybody expected more furnishing slots despite being told really recently that we aren't getting them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658726/follow-up-q-a-from-eso-10-year-celebration-event-community-roundtable/p1

Over on the housing forum we spent *two years* offering pages after pages of ideas and work-arounds, QoL suggestions and more, (on an official thread, mind you) as an alternative to this pandering to ancient consoles. Then the thread was removed, without ever getting feedback from ZOS in any way.

I find it somewhat strange that ZOS is so willing to pander to old machines, but... maybe they also still code on punch cards?

So. We remain hostage to old machines and to ZOS' unwillingness to listen to its customers.

Luke_Flamesword · July 3

And how may objects do you think those low end machines are loading when they enter a zone or a city ?

Well, they are static meshes and can be optimized in various ways (for example - grouping them in bigger boundles and loaded as one big mesh)

Kaelalas · July 3

Araneae6537 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The entire chat BLEW up with “we need more slots” “make furnish craft bag” “allow us to decon furnishings we craft” and it totally fell on deaf ears for a Big Housing update live presentation.

Some cool things with the new sets from IA and new IA arenas but the housing….man what a bummer.

Those were unrealistic anyway. I’m not surprised they didn’t derail the stream to address that as people would still be unhappy with “no,” regardless of it being explained — as indeed it has been officially but people seem to think that explanation has expired or something.

I'm pretty sure they've never outright said that any of these highly requested features were impossible or unrealistic. *Maybe* some of them were with the tools they had years ago, but they never explicitly claimed a definitive "no" to any of these features in the future that I am aware of.

DenverRalphy · July 3

I think it was around the time that Gina Bruno filled the time, that should have been used fielding questions from the chat stream, with ramblings about dogs, fireworks, doggie drugs, doggie hoodies, etc... that it all sunk in that no answers were coming. You could even see her glancing at the stream and trying to look like everything is normal.

Alpheu5 · July 3

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Their reasoning for the item limit has never made sense. A single fork and a structure with particle effects and a toggleable light source take up the same capacity, but I seriously doubt they have the same impact on performance.

Well, it make sense, because problem probably is not with rendering but loading items data - every placed object have specific coordinates of placement and other data (x,y,z axis, rotatation, etc), which we have to load. When you have to load all that data of 700 object - it's a lot. When it be for example 1500 - well, it may crash game on lower machines.

That's kilobytes at worst. If a machine has trouble processing the coordinate data of 700 assets, it wouldn't be able to load into any dungeons or cities.

I counted about 300 objects in and directly surrounding just the Coin Brothers' Cornerclub. All of Stormhold easily has well over a thousand items recognizable as usable furnishings within loading distance at any point, and there exist some houses that dwarf the entire city before even taking the Z-axis into consideration.

If it's a database issue ([kilobytes of coordinate data] x [tens of millions of houses] = [lots of punch cards]), then they should just admit it as such. Saying it's a compromise for low-end machines seems disingenuous when they're increasing their own "furnishing limit" by now spawning hundreds of seasonal decorations in every city every few months.

Araneae6537 · July 3

Kaelalas wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The entire chat BLEW up with “we need more slots” “make furnish craft bag” “allow us to decon furnishings we craft” and it totally fell on deaf ears for a Big Housing update live presentation.

Some cool things with the new sets from IA and new IA arenas but the housing….man what a bummer.

Those were unrealistic anyway. I’m not surprised they didn’t derail the stream to address that as people would still be unhappy with “no,” regardless of it being explained — as indeed it has been officially but people seem to think that explanation has expired or something.

I'm pretty sure they've never outright said that any of these highly requested features were impossible or unrealistic. *Maybe* some of them were with the tools they had years ago, but they never explicitly claimed a definitive "no" to any of these features in the future that I am aware of.

I was referring to increasing housing slots or introducing a furnishing bag — those two have been specifically addressed and ZOS has said they are not possible.

Jaraal · July 3

OsUfi wrote: »

Luminous ink in treasure chests and heavy sacks is a nice addition.

Luminous ink in treasure chests means the number of threads started about "selfish" people opening chests and leaving them partially filled will exponentially increase. And adding ink to a pool of hundreds of possible heavy sack drops that may or may not be populated when you arrive at the spawn point won't have much effect on supply at all. Imagine how long it would take you to find a heavy sack of Pojora runes if you went out looking for it. Well, that's how long it will take you to find a sack of inks.

tsaescishoeshiner · July 3

I wasn't expecting a housing limit increase (which we've repeatedly been told no about), so I'm actually pretty into the new feature. The new houses look cool (wish there was a Dawnwood house!), but new furnishings and stuff would be nice. Maybe there are some, and they just didn't feature them (I think they're not always mentioned in the livestream).

Alinhbo_Tyaka · July 3

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

They allow you to “showcase homes” for people to visit and rate it. That was it for housing besides showing us some new homes. Everybody was sure we were gonna get more slots. But Nope.

Did they say whether the player has to opt-in or did they make that decision for us like they did on the environmental sustainability feature (such a muddled name for a feature that uses more energy on LCD displays)?

Mathius_Mordred · July 3

Meh

Tandor · July 3

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

They allow you to “showcase homes” for people to visit and rate it. That was it for housing besides showing us some new homes. Everybody was sure we were gonna get more slots. But Nope.

Did they say whether the player has to opt-in or did they make that decision for us like they did on the environmental sustainability feature (such a muddled name for a feature that uses more energy on LCD displays)?

Your choice whether you list any, all, or none of your homes, and obviously your choice whether you visit anyone else's home(s). If you don't actively participate then the whole system will pass you by.

TaSheen · July 3

Tandor wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

They allow you to “showcase homes” for people to visit and rate it. That was it for housing besides showing us some new homes. Everybody was sure we were gonna get more slots. But Nope.

Did they say whether the player has to opt-in or did they make that decision for us like they did on the environmental sustainability feature (such a muddled name for a feature that uses more energy on LCD displays)?

Your choice whether you list any, all, or none of your homes, and obviously your choice whether you visit anyone else's home(s). If you don't actively participate then the whole system will pass you by.

Thankfully....

Alinhbo_Tyaka · July 3

Tandor wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

They allow you to “showcase homes” for people to visit and rate it. That was it for housing besides showing us some new homes. Everybody was sure we were gonna get more slots. But Nope.

Did they say whether the player has to opt-in or did they make that decision for us like they did on the environmental sustainability feature (such a muddled name for a feature that uses more energy on LCD displays)?

Your choice whether you list any, all, or none of your homes, and obviously your choice whether you visit anyone else's home(s). If you don't actively participate then the whole system will pass you by.

Thanks.

Tandor · July 3

Jaraal wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Luminous ink in treasure chests and heavy sacks is a nice addition.

Luminous ink in treasure chests means the number of threads started about "selfish" people opening chests and leaving them partially filled will exponentially increase. And adding ink to a pool of hundreds of possible heavy sack drops that may or may not be populated when you arrive at the spawn point won't have much effect on supply at all. Imagine how long it would take you to find a heavy sack of Pojora runes if you went out looking for it. Well, that's how long it will take you to find a sack of inks.

I assume it won't be a sack of inks, rather a very small chance of any heavy sack having an ink in it. As such the increase in supply of inks would be negligible. However, I'd given up on the ESO Live before this subject came up so I don't know exactly what the wording was about it.

Yamenstein · July 3

Another fail for ZoS. Not surprised. Can’t say they don’t meet what’s expected from there.

kargen27 · July 3

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The entire chat BLEW up with “we need more slots” “make furnish craft bag” “allow us to decon furnishings we craft” and it totally fell on deaf ears for a Big Housing update live presentation.

Dungeon shoulders are curatable now(meaning guaranteed drop for what you don’t have, no more wasting keys) as well as pvp gear set items.
Some new colors for some skills.
Mount preview changes and guild store look back

Some cool things with the new sets from IA and new IA arenas but the housing….man what a bummer.

So the chat blew up with things that ZoS has said in the past they are unable to do. Not unwilling to do but unable to do. It has been explained many many times why we have the slot limits and why there is no furniture bag. The calls for a furniture bag and more slots didn't fall on deaf ears. The reasons why we can't get them fell on deaf ears and it seems continues to do so.

TaSheen · July 3

Well, I for one certainly wasn't expecting increased slot limits or a furniture bag! I actually wasn't expecting anything in particular personally....

tomofhyrule · July 4

Photosniper89 wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

in my humble understanding: very disappointing.

Zeni built up a hype promising a BIG housing feature.
i was expecting furnishing deconstruction at the very least, increasing items limits at least twice, furnishing bag similar to a craftbag - any of these could be really big and very much demanded by the players community features.
What we are getting?: a catalogue. Of course, it means some extra database load for Zeni, but in my humble view - it is not anything BIG or BOLD. why not to listen to players, dear @ZOS ?

Don't worry, PvP is next to be hit with a major let down. "new system coming to pvp".

I now expect it to be a stupid tab in the dungeon finder area where it says dueling and you can select someone who wants to duel.

Watch.

That's actually what I fully expect it to be.

If they add anything big, we'll get inundated with "Cyro/BG/IC is dead! No people are there!" threads. And as much as PvPers want to believe, there's no magic sauce that will make an appreciable number of PvErs say "man, I really want to get killed on repeat!" And new casuals? Forget about it.

But ranked duelling would only take two people at a time from the other PvP modes so they're still populated. Put in the ToT-esque ranking system, add some rewards beyond a title, and bam! New mode.
(and then we can also get people to stop with the "omg stop spamming effects in the middle of cities duelling! It's annoying" and "it's unfair that I can't summon my corpses when I'm duelling in town!" threads)

LaintalAy · July 4

Ravensilver wrote: »

I find it somewhat strange that ZOS is so willing to pander to old machines, but... maybe they also still code on punch cards?

So. We remain hostage to old machines and to ZOS' unwillingness to listen to its customers.

There are many modern, low-spec machines; they aren't old. I expect that ZOS have a better understanding of how many players are using low-spec machines, than players themselves.

Soarora · July 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

in my humble understanding: very disappointing.

Zeni built up a hype promising a BIG housing feature.
i was expecting furnishing deconstruction at the very least, increasing items limits at least twice, furnishing bag similar to a craftbag - any of these could be really big and very much demanded by the players community features.
What we are getting?: a catalogue. Of course, it means some extra database load for Zeni, but in my humble view - it is not anything BIG or BOLD. why not to listen to players, dear @ZOS ?

Don't worry, PvP is next to be hit with a major let down. "new system coming to pvp".

I now expect it to be a stupid tab in the dungeon finder area where it says dueling and you can select someone who wants to duel.

Watch.

That's actually what I fully expect it to be.

If they add anything big, we'll get inundated with "Cyro/BG/IC is dead! No people are there!" threads. And as much as PvPers want to believe, there's no magic sauce that will make an appreciable number of PvErs say "man, I really want to get killed on repeat!" And new casuals? Forget about it.

But ranked duelling would only take two people at a time from the other PvP modes so they're still populated. Put in the ToT-esque ranking system, add some rewards beyond a title, and bam! New mode.
(and then we can also get people to stop with the "omg stop spamming effects in the middle of cities duelling! It's annoying" and "it's unfair that I can't summon my corpses when I'm duelling in town!" threads)

I made a joke to myself earlier that maybe the new PvP feature will be learning what sets do/don't function in NoProc.

TaSheen · July 4

I'm really afraid it's not a joke Soarora....

LittlePinkDot · July 4

Ravensilver wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i don't get how anybody expected more furnishing slots despite being told really recently that we aren't getting them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658726/follow-up-q-a-from-eso-10-year-celebration-event-community-roundtable/p1

Over on the housing forum we spent *two years* offering pages after pages of ideas and work-arounds, QoL suggestions and more, (on an official thread, mind you) as an alternative to this pandering to ancient consoles. Then the thread was removed, without ever getting feedback from ZOS in any way.

I find it somewhat strange that ZOS is so willing to pander to old machines, but... maybe they also still code on punch cards?

So. We remain hostage to old machines and to ZOS' unwillingness to listen to its customers.

My PS5 isn't ancient.

TaSheen · July 4

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Ravensilver wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i don't get how anybody expected more furnishing slots despite being told really recently that we aren't getting them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658726/follow-up-q-a-from-eso-10-year-celebration-event-community-roundtable/p1

Over on the housing forum we spent *two years* offering pages after pages of ideas and work-arounds, QoL suggestions and more, (on an official thread, mind you) as an alternative to this pandering to ancient consoles. Then the thread was removed, without ever getting feedback from ZOS in any way.

I find it somewhat strange that ZOS is so willing to pander to old machines, but... maybe they also still code on punch cards?

So. We remain hostage to old machines and to ZOS' unwillingness to listen to its customers.

My PS5 isn't ancient.

No, of course it's not. And I just replaced my 9 year old pc in March. But there are a lot of aging consoles and pcs out there. And if the min reqs are covering those.... well yes - ZOS DID update the min reqs a few months back.... but that doesn't mean they're willing to deny access to those who don't meet those new min reqs, y'know?

So.... they're absolutely NOT going to cut the lowest common denominator out. Because.... money. Does that do a disservice to those of us who have newer better tech? Of course. But the only real option is to just not play, to pay nothing.

But.... the game is really fun for me, and TES VI isn't maybe going to happen until I'm either dead or not able to play any more. So.... sorry. I'm paying and playing because I'm old, I may not live to see TES VI, and right now (aside from still playing Oblivion and Skyrim as I will once I get them installed on this new machine) ESO is what I have.

And I'm not going to post anything else - I like my posting privs.

vsrs_au · July 4

LaintalAy wrote: »

Ravensilver wrote: »

I find it somewhat strange that ZOS is so willing to pander to old machines, but... maybe they also still code on punch cards?

So. We remain hostage to old machines and to ZOS' unwillingness to listen to its customers.

There are many modern, low-spec machines; they aren't old. I expect that ZOS have a better understanding of how many players are using low-spec machines, than players themselves.

I really hope not. If ZOS have automated collection of data on players' PCs, then they're exceeding their authority.

Pelanora · July 4

DinoZavr wrote: »

in my humble understanding: very disappointing.

Zeni built up a hype promising a BIG housing feature.
i was expecting furnishing deconstruction at the very least, increasing items limits at least twice, furnishing bag similar to a craftbag - any of these could be really big and very much demanded by the players community features.
What we are getting?: a catalogue. Of course, it means some extra database load for Zeni, but in my humble view - it is not anything BIG or BOLD. why not to listen to players, dear @ZOS ?

Yea I'd imagined a single furniture crafting station like they made for armour etc. except in the crafting sites in the cities.