Feedback On Console Environmental Sustainability Features

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all. We're gathering some feedback regarding the Environmental Sustainability Features added in U42. Specifically, we would like feedback on the following patch note:

• Reduced GPU use in Contextual Menus (Xbox Series X|S and PS5): When viewing most menus, (eg. managing inventory, achievements, quest journal, etc) framerate is now capped to 30fps. Some menus are exempt on a case-by-case basis (eg. conversations, various mini-games). Testing in Performance Mode while in these menus shows a 50% reduction in GPU consumption, resulting in overall power consumption going from approximately 63% of the maximum possible on a console down to 37%.

We're seeing your feedback about menus capped to 30fps is causing issues for some of you. Please let us know how it is impacting your play experience. We are sharing this with our teams to better inform them of your feedback and how we can improve the experience overall. Additionally, if you are experiencing other framerate issues with either your menus or player character, please note those here as well. Thanks, all.

YoshinJaa

I like the concept, but it needs to be a toggle. It's an eye strain to go from 60 > to 30 each time I pull up any main menu functions.

Tiath

The menus are used a lot, in every play session.

Especially on console, where the controller UI needs to be navigated by moving up and down lists, with transitional animation between lists after selecting an item: This is very "juddery" and not as fast to navigate when capped at 30fps. Inventory management is painful.

The map is also very "juddery" and - when viewed in the typical console set up of a large TV across the room - is causing ghosting of the image, making it hard to visually track icons on the map.

The Crown Store is also especially bad - navigating down the Crown Crates menu with all the images, at 30fps, is extremely unpleasant.

The enforced FPS cap also seems to be intefering with Variable Refresh Rate features on some TVs causing a "strobing" effect.

None of these were an issue on the same setup with U41.

Tandor

I don't personally experience any particular issues with these changes, but would make the general point that such changes should never be forced on users and should always be optional.

A_Pig

I play on Xbox Series X on a 165hz monitor and up until this update it played super smooth on Performance Mode, i would even say it is one of the best performance modes of any game on Xbox Series X.

And with this change, my head actually hurts playing the game. Atrocious change and whilst i read your reasoning, please either revert it ASAP or just give us an option. I was so excited to see Skingrad so many years after Oblivion (loved my paranoid buddy Glarthir) but this has really soured the experience.

Atedos

Some feedback regarding the recent update to the menus running at 30fps. While many developers aim to enhance player experience by ensuring smooth performance, it seems that ZoS has chosen a different approach that has negatively impacted usability.

On the PS5, navigating maps and managing inventory has become nearly unusable due to the reduced frame rate. This issue is glaringly obvious when contrasted with the 60fps gameplay in performance mode.

Moreover, for those using larger screens, which are common for console gaming, the reduced frame rate makes the experience even more jarring as the larger screen size accentuates the gaps between frames.

While the initiative might look good on paper, we need an option that allows players to choose the frame rate for menus, ensuring that those who prefer a smoother experience can still enjoy it. Thank you.

Tiath

Tandor wrote: »

...such changes should never be forced on users and should always be optional.

Entirely this.

PC/Mac users have the option of editing an ini file to turn it off.

We're stuck with it on console whether we like it or not, and I know this is subjective and slightly hyperbolic, but it is so horrible that I don't want to play, on a day that a new expansion has released that I was really looking forward to, because the UI is making me queasy.

Necrotech_Master

Tiath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

...such changes should never be forced on users and should always be optional.

Entirely this.

PC/Mac users have the option of editing an ini file to turn it off.

We're stuck with it on console whether we like it or not, and I know this is subjective and slightly hyperbolic, but it is so horrible that I don't want to play, on a day that a new expansion has released that I was really looking forward to, because the UI is making me queasy.

its not an ini file, its a plain txt file lol

but still annoying that have to modify it at all to turn this setting off

Necrotech_Master

my feedback is that this setting is awful, the screen dimming while i have an application running is annoying, and the FPS change is extremely jarring (i normally run the game at around 100-120 FPS, and when it drops to 30 fps when the screen dims, when you move it switches from 30 fps to 100 fps which makes it extremely jarring)

as a PC user i disabled this setting through the user setting txt file, but it absolutely needs an in game setting to let the user choose if they want this feature enabled

AedricPrey

Please make this a toggle, it is very jarring on the eyes and takes you out of the play experience.

While I understand the intent, the execution (as someone who has a latest gen console) falls short.

Bekkael

I play on a Series X with a 75 inch UHD television. I suffer from chronic migraines, made worse by juttering/wonky menus etc.

I am a paying customer (since 2015) and longtime supporter of ESO. I would like this "sustainability" setting to be optional. I am not a child, I'm a grown woman fully capable of making my own choices in every area of life, including the hobbies and entertainment I choose to engage in and consume. It's incredibly arrogant of ZOS to assume they know best in this regard for console users, and only console users. If I want to enable this setting, that should be my choice, and if I don't want it, that is an equally valid and reasonable choice to make.

PC players are not forced into these settings in any way, shape or form, and forcing it on console users is discrimination, pure and simple. We aren't sub-human because we play on console. Please accord your paying console customers the same dignity and respect that PC players enjoy, to make the choices that are right for us.

Sleeping_OwI

U42 made performance so bad the game has become unplayable on ps4. Dying to invisible enemies in (even normal) dungeons because they take so long to load. And when they do load, there's no animation, no sound effects, no Aoes for a good while. If there's a mechanic happening, you simply can't even see it and you're dead. Spawning banker takes 5 secs after the dungeon is already over and no enemies and players are even around. Just a few examples...

Game was always slow on ps4 but that was understandable, but it was nowhere near this bad before U42. This is several times slower and worse. How are we to do trifectas now with all the invisible enemies and animations and Aoes?

I know older consoles aren't priority but there's still a good number of people playing on them, you need to revert and fix this please, this is game breaking.

Telos_Tim

The lack of fluidity as the frames drop has made entering the menus a nightmare on my Series X.

This change has destroyed my experience playing the game, as now it’s causing me headaches when entering my menu, something the game constantly forces you to do.

Was this even playtested?

dk_dunkirk

This is a pandering change for the sake of investors, not players. I'm guessing no one would willingly make this tradeoff to save a couple of bucks a month on their electrical bill, and that's why there's no toggle for it in the options.

People like Taylor Swift fly a private jet across town to take another jet halfway around the world. The Kardashians reportedly flew all the way to France on a private jet for a piece of cheesecake. In the face of these kinds of carbon expenditures by the rich in the US, or the runaway pollution in China and India, even if you capped the frame rates of all 50,000 online players at all times, it would never make a dent in the problem, and it's insulting for you to demand that we degrade our experience so that you can tell your investors that you've made the game "more green."

For pity's sake, just let us plebes take advantage of the hardware that we paid for, and flaunt our "extravagance" to spend a candy bar's worth of money to make the experience of playing our games as good as possible with our equipment. If the rich get to take elephant-sized dumps all over the globe every week with impunity, then I demand to be able to squeeze out a rabbit turd once in awhile.

Stafford197

How has it impacted my experience?
My answer is that it is now headache-inducing to even scroll through simple menus such as guild rosters. The drop from 60 FPS down to 30 FPS genuinely hurts the gameplay experience.

It’s shocking how bad this change is on console and the fact it is mandatory is going to be a bad look for this game. Very disappointing.

DirtyDeeds765

Revert the change. On the PS5, it is not smooth like how it was and is straining on the eyes. Menus are a massive part of the game and shouldn't be put on the backburner for "environmental sustainability".

@DirtyDeeds765

visualgloss_ESO

I was so excited for the expansion today but within 30 minutes I was done. The headache this gives me makes the game unplayable. Unfortunately, I'm done playing the game until this is reverted.

TheSinisterDuck

Add me to the list of NEWLY FORMER ACTIVE DAILY PLAYERS that can no longer use the ui. I gave it a good try today, but the lagginess in the menus & map renders the game utterly unplayable. ESO is was one of the games i could play without getting queasy, now that's gone.

I not only regret buying the Gold Road, but i will not be renewing once ESO+ expires next month. The fact that you brazenly took our money and broke the game is unacceptable. I have lost faith that zos won't completely break the game in other ways in the future, if this is fixed by then, if at all.

the thought that there is some group deep within zos that pursues empty virtue signalling is appalling, let alone giving them the power to utterly break the game on console! Why can PC users disable this nanny-state 'feature'?

I didn't buy a $500 console to save electricity! Just curious, how many of this crack environmental sustainability team drive EVs?

Josh3133

As others have said 30 fps on a large screen causes a lot of eye strain. After purchasing a series X specifically to play ESO at 60 fps this is a giant step backwards and needs to be reverted.

Tiath

I just logged back in to do my daily crafting writs, as I didn't want to miss out.

The process of opening the reward bags, where the game zooms out when you open the bag then zooms back in as you take the rewards is now nauseating.

We've got Zeal of Zenithar coming up, and I had loads of writs saved up for that. I was looking forward to it, but the thought of trying to do them now, with this UI change, is making me anxious.

I don't want to miss out on the time limited mount for doing scribing either... but I'm not sure I can cope with this


(disclaimer: yes, I know I sound hyperbolic but I am neurodivergent and this is making me really upset)

Stafford197

Tiath wrote: »

I just logged back in to do my daily crafting writs, as I didn't want to miss out.

The process of opening the reward bags, where the game zooms out when you open the bag then zooms back in as you take the rewards is now nauseating.

We've got Zeal of Zenithar coming up, and I had loads of writs saved up for that. I was looking forward to it, but the thought of trying to do them now, with this UI change, is making me anxious.

I don't want to miss out on the time limited mount for doing scribing either... but I'm not sure I can cope with this


(disclaimer: yes, I know I sound hyperbolic but I am neurodivergent and this is making me really upset)

I wouldn’t say you’re being hyperbolic. A substantial portion of ESO’s gameplay takes place within various menus / inventory. This is something that should’ve instantly raised red flags when the idea was brought up or at the very least when (if?) it was playtested.
Im seeing all of my guildies complaining about it too.

Kuuruk

I logged in this morning and immediately noticed the performance in menus was terrible, I thought to myself that it must be a bug and we’d just have to deal with it until a hot fix. Come to find out, this was intentional for some weird reason. That $3 a year you’re trying to save me on my electric bill just isn’t it ZOS. This change makes zero sense and will become a larger health and wellbeing issue for more than half the player base.

HedgeHugger

It is horrific!!
The map judders, the menus judder. It is like being dizzy every time you open a menu. Makes me a bit queasy, to be honest. I shall start dreading opening maps and menus.
We spend a lot of time in our menus, or at least I do, as does my OH. There is always something that needs shifting around, or sorting, or sending somewhere else.

RoseTheSnowElf

Migraines.

HedgeHugger

If the setting stays it might end up being 100% power consumption saved, because this is unplayable for any long term sessions.

fourbits

I have Xbox series x and the jittering on the map menu now is really unbearable so please revert this upgrade or let us turn it off, also why is my health bar really glowing like it has a halo around it.
It is really bright and annoying and draws your attention away from what you are trying to play or do the other attribute bars do not have it (i.e. magic or stamina bars), it`s probably happening because there is a glut of energy now from what you have saved on the map menus etc. but seriously I am a pensioner and the government give me a bonus every year to pay for the extra energy that my console uses to heat my house and keep me warm, so please turn 30 fps off as I am getting numb from cold and can’t reach my usual level of 120dps.

LaintalAy

We've already passed the PSR, so it's a moot point now.

SkaiFaith

First I'll copy here my initial feedback from the other thread, then I'll do a quick follow up:

"I play (Performance Mode) on a Xbox Series X and a LG TV both with 120Hz enabled. I also always had enabled VRR or Vsync and never had a problem, it was buttery smooth til yesterday.

After today's patch I get massive stutters entering in menus and during all time in the map.
During normal gameplay is fine but opening those two things makes the screen go "strobo lights" effect and stutter heavily.

If I disable VRR or Vsync the strobo effect goes off, but the stutter persists.
I tried enabling and disabling different options both on console and TV, like Auto Low Latency mode and such things - nothing solves the problem caused by the 30fps cap.
The only thing I didn't disable is 120Hz on Console and TV - I think you can understand me if I say I'm not ok with doing so, since I invested money in both devices because of that feature.

Please fix this issue or at least let us disable the "energy saving" thing.
Right now the game results in something kinda unplayable, which is really sad; I waited for Gold Road with great anticipation and this is bad, seriously...!"


Here's the follow up and momentary suggestion to other players:

I KINDA solved the issue by limiting the console to 60Hz and disabling VRR and ALLM. I can keep AMD FreeSync on High.

(120Hz and VRR seem to be the causes of strobing, ghosting and stuttering when FPS capped)

This way the judders are extremely reduced - still present but just a little, occasionally.

By no means this should be a definitive solution. PLEASE fix this asap because it's a game-breaking experience that can push away many players.
Also, I agree with everyone saying this should totally be an optional feature and not forced onto anyone.

- Edited to add brackets

tsaescishoeshiner

I haven't noticed the frame limit while in menus, so I don't mind it (I usually do notice FPS loss when not in a menu). I don't mind the screen dimming, either, and it's nice a way to save a bit of energy.

That said, I also experienced the constant frame stuttering mentioned above since yesterday's PC patch. It would occasionally happen after Gold Road, but would be fixed on logging out and back in. But now, no amount of restarts has gotten rid of constant frame drops. I don't think it's my setting or hardware, as I didn't have this issue. But even when my FPS says 80-90, it plays like it's much lower because of stutters and choppiness. I almost missed a trial because of it--the lack of responsiveness really disorients me.

You know how when you log onto a character, the FPS takes a second to wind up and is a little choppy while everything loads? It's like that, but constantly.

ElementalDud

Since it was not made optional, this is a terrible change. We access menus so frequently in this game - inventory, groups, maps, even LOOTING. It all causes a jittery mess on my screen, making my eyes strain and even sometimes causing headaches.

This is not a good feature, and should be made optional in the settings if not completely removed from the game. I literally revived my forums account that's been dormant for years to voice my opinion on this.

Hopefully it doesn't take until the next major title update to correct this purposefully introduced performance issue. This approach to "sustainability" is baffling.

katanagirl1

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to read all of the above comments but wanted to post while this is fresh on my mind.

Playing on console with TV already has a screen-dimming feature if there is no input sensed. This sustainability measure is not needed.

Trying to open containers from daily crafting writs after the update is nearly seizure-inducing. The frame rate drop is extreme. It’s every second or so when opening those containers.

Is it really necessary to reduce the output of the PS5 for 300 ms or whatever tiny amount of time that is? It’s insignificant.

On the good side, the greater zoom on the maps is a nice fix.