Ithelia looks so weird

ZOS_Kevin

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed on your feedback to the dev team and they are looking at ways to improve Ithelia's look. No additional follow up at this time as the team is just beginning conversations on this, but wanted to follow up and let you know that feedback has been heard here.

Syldras

kynesgrove wrote: »

Also I don't mind being the chosen one, but I don't like being put in to the assumption that I enjoy being put on a shining knight pedestal... Like the scribing questline. Base-game had some fun twist dialogue option to some quests which I really appreciated, even just for RP sake. Being the hero because of necessity makes way more sense in order to give players moral flexibility in their minds. Such as the Coldharbour quest-line originally could be described in such a way, all you really want is to get your soul back, no matter what your moral head-canon for your hero is.

Yes. It already bothered me in Greymoor not to be able to choose side but being forced to support the "good vampires", to be honest. Especially since we were allowed to choose in Skyrim/Dawnguard.

Now the scribing questline... I don't find the dialogues and lorebooks to be bad on their own. Actually I even think that the writing quality has been much better than what we got the last few years - as in wording, use of metaphors, the structure of the stories (the repetitiveness of the quests is a different topic). But yes, it comes across as quite positive, light-hearted, you're the moral, shining hero (reaching peak in the last quest where moral virtues are emphasized so much). The whole thing has, to me, a fairytale-like atmosphere in a way. Which is an interesting idea, but of course it doesn't really fit every player character (especially considering that Dark Brotherhood assassin or cultist characters might want to utilize scribing, too).

In general I already find it a bit unfortunate to link scribing to the Mages Guild. Can characters who are not members start that questline? I know we're probably supposed to join the Mages Guild anyway, but if someone, roleplay-wise, doesn't play a much magically inclined character, how would that even make any sense?

kynesgrove wrote: »

Although most princes like appearing in different forms depending on the region and race, so I guess they should have made her look Ayleid rather than human-ish, strongly doubt the Heartland Elves would worship a being that looks an awful lot like a well-fed version of their slaves.

My first thought was that she might look human because she is supposed to wander the West Weald without getting too much attention? I don't know, though, as I've only started the main quest and only met her once.

kynesgrove wrote: »

Oh, you are thinking about Berwadira. She is so incredibly rude, and I love it! (She reminds me of Nazeem from Skyrim)

Yes. I could only remember that there was a lady in the chapel who insulted me But I checked on UESP and you're right.

kynesgrove wrote: »

I'm talking about Legionary Ida, close to Berwadira's area, who says: "I don't mean to disparage them. I believe a few are trying their best, but many of them lack the Imperial instinct for combat. The Redguards, for example, have their own combat techniques that clash with our martial traditions."
The way she says it is brutal, the slight pause before "techniques" absolutely encapsulates her opinion so well. Its wonderfully awful and I love murdering her.

I think it shows cultural differences between Imperials and Redguards, especially in warfare techniques, quite well. The Imperials with their legion are super-organized and -structured, they rely very much on strict formations and tactics they plan beforehand (I think there's another non-Imperial npc somewhere in Skingrad who says that as soon as the planned formation doesn't work out for a reason, Imperial soldiers are more or less lost). Calling it "instinct", is nonsense of course, but snobbish people exist.

cyclonus11

It's her mouth movements for me. It is WAY out of sync with her actual words and doesn't look in any way natural. It seems... jerky, animatronic, or something.

I like the character so far, I just can't look at her while she's talking

edward_frigidhands

Her look seems to have been drastically altered since the reveal. This would have been a decision made by someone because of how different it looks:

kynesgrove

Oh the writing and lore books really improved. I really enjoyed them. I'm definitely not saying it was grindingly terrible, but it was a very sweet and goodly quest in theme which I disliked a bit. Not for every one of my characters of course. But it is very skewed in the sense we are soulless vestiges who quite literally come from all walks of life or go on all walks of life.

In general I already find it a bit unfortunate to link scribing to the Mages Guild. Can characters who are not members start that questline? I know we're probably supposed to join the Mages Guild anyway, but if someone, roleplay-wise, doesn't play a much magically inclined character, how would that even make any sense?

I was just thinking about this earlier... It's unfortunate and there's no way around it. I do think that because its all about the ink and scribing and using grimoires... surely it would have suited H. Moras theme more? Like finding lost tomes and knowledge. But I do realise the repeat in theme would be too much. I do think the soft turqoise and marble of the place is very beautiful.

My first thought was that she might look human because she is supposed to wander the West Weald without getting too much attention? I don't know, though, as I've only started the main quest and only met her once.

I certainly don't want to spoil anything but you'll understand later why I said what I said.

Oh and I agree with the inclusion of snobby people all the way, Count Calantius is a perfect Colovian in that sense. I see how Ida can be seen as simply an impatient snob, but it's her delivery that makes it really seem that she has a distaste for that which is different. But really it's subtle and can definitely be up to interpretation which is great. But she does dislike all her new recruits. Until she can make them conform to Imperial standard that is. What is interesting is that she refers to the god of arms, do you think that could be Ebonarm? We haven't really had him mentioned or confirmed a lot.

Also to keep it on topic:

@ZOS_Kevin Thank you so much for taking note and letting us know!

Plada

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed on your feedback to the dev team and they are looking at ways to improve Ithelia's look. No additional follow up at this time as the team is just beginning conversations on this, but wanted to follow up and let you know that feedback has been heard here.

Oh, Thank you very much for your attention and your message!
We'll all be here waiting for news from the dev team and from you.

TDVM

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed on your feedback to the dev team and they are looking at ways to improve Ithelia's look. No additional follow up at this time as the team is just beginning conversations on this, but wanted to follow up and let you know that feedback has been heard here.

That's very good! I hope the developers fix her appearance!

Pelanora

They tried to make Malenia, didn't they.

vsrs_au

Pelanora wrote: »

They tried to make Malenia, didn't they.

No, the Blade of Miquella is much better looking.

colossalvoids

Pelanora wrote: »

They tried to make Malenia, didn't they.

I fear for their creativity if that's what it was lmao. Not laughing about what they've tried to rip-off (love Malenia's design) but how the result went.

RaddlemanNumber7

She looks fine to me, reminiscent of some modern-day celebrities.

The only problem I saw was during our first meeting at the inn. There were some gaps in the textures around her lips that showed as white lines when she was speaking. And her teeth looked quite discoloured.

Scaletho

I bet the character design was made by some intern. Lol

Syldras

kynesgrove wrote: »

I see how Ida can be seen as simply an impatient snob, but it's her delivery that makes it really seem that she has a distaste for that which is different. But really it's subtle and can definitely be up to interpretation which is great.

I don't play the English version and in my localization she came across as very sure of herself while being incapable of understanding that there are cultural differences (so she attributes the differences in warfare to "lack of instinct" and not just a distinctively different cultural tradition). She doesn't really seem malevolent, but rather ignorant.

logan68 wrote: »

It's a Man Baby, a Man!!!

Yeah, breasts, a narrow waist, narrow shoulders, a small nose and full lips definitively make me think of men.

DP99

marcbf wrote: »

To add to my previous comment: Not only do we now know why she was forgotten, but we also know why every mirror will break in her vicinity.

Joking aside, ZOS will probably never fix her appearance, even though in this case, they really should.

Mirror, mirror on the wall... who's the fairest one of all?

Rkindaleft

Syldras wrote: »

To be fair, as a Daedric Prince, she would be able to manifest in any way she wants.

I wonder why she chose to look like a plastic surgery gone wrong.

TheImperfect

I think in most of the scenes she looks good there's just the odd one where things have gotten a little freaky but maybe that's what happens when reality starts unravelling - it starts with your face.

Syldras

Rkindaleft wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

To be fair, as a Daedric Prince, she would be able to manifest in any way she wants.

I wonder why she chose to look like a plastic surgery gone wrong.

If I imagine I was a Daedric Prince (and then even one who has been asleep for a while), I'm not even sure if I cared for mortals enough to have a closer look at them. I would probably get their number of fingers wrong, I would have no clue how their feet look like, or their teeth (Why and how would I count a human's teeth or find out about the different tooth shapes?!), I'd probably be happy enough to be able to remember that they have two eyes, but only one nose and mouth. Then again, I would never manifest as a humanoid, because why would I choose to look like that if I could look like something truly magnificent instead?

Sarannah

Haven't even started the main quest yet, and have only done the "outside inn" quest where I encountered her. But personally I had no issues with how she looked.

It seems fitting she doesn't quite look human, but still appears to be one as she is a deadric prince. The staring look I think fits, as she has been through a major defeat, was trapped/forgotten for millenia, and she was out of her mind(in the outside inn quest). This made her seem 'broken'.

But I did notice her mouth moved in a really weird way during the dialog. I always listen to everything.

PS: Someone should post a screenshot of Ithelia in her full form, for comparison. (this form can be seen during the outside inn quest)
PPS: Loved the outside inn quest(just north of skingrad), it is one of the best quests in the game in my opinion! (But I always love interacting with gods in quests, so I may be somewhat biased)

IrelandTweaky

I love the way she looks. Stands out from other NPCs and reminds me a lot more of real people. I know I'm a bit influenced by the fact that Alix Wilton Regan is the VA, but that's not all of it. A friend and I were chatting about the new content and we agreed the character model is fab.

xylena_lazarow

Gamers when an npc isn't white:

Gamers when a female character doesn't get them revved up:

SickleCider

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Gamers when an npc isn't white:

Gamers when a female character doesn't get them revved up:

Yeah. I'll accept there may be objective issues with animation rigging and textures (I have no firsthand experience, so I don't know) but this is what a lot of the vitriol comes down to. I don't know how some of these comments are getting a pass.

Edit: I just have to make this observation. Considering the point that was just made, all the discussion about Shadow Over Innsmouth demonstrates such a comical lack of sight for the big picture. I did a spit-take reading this thread. If you know, you know. (Don't come at me, I love Lovecraftian horror.)

TairenSoul

I think it's mostly the hair now that I've finished the main quests and seen her more. Her face is coarse which isn't really my thing. I like finer features. The hair is not up to par for the game, imo.

AnduinTryggva

Plada wrote: »

Hello! Sorry, but why Ithelia looks so weird? Her face model doesn't fit into the game at all.
Is there any explanation why she looks so strange? Does it work as it should be?

I took these screenshots from the other players to show you this:

Apart from that they are too big:

The eyes are completely wrong!!! This is how you would draw an eye symbol rather than a realistic eye.

With eye symbol I mean: draw 2 arcs, one opening downwards, the other upwards and they meet at the symmetry line.
Eye symbols like here:
https://depositphotos.com/de/vector/eye-icon-vector-86929742.html

While in reality they are NOT symmetric at all.

While the upper lid is a shallow arc, the lower lid is more s-shaped.

https://www.pinterest.de/pin/167125836161316453/

The lips themselves move in awkward ways but it is much less terrible than the eyes. The eyes are cringe.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for your understanding.

Syldras

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Gamers when an npc isn't white:
Gamers when a female character doesn't get them revved up:

I've been following this thread since page 1. Except for maybe 3 or 4 weird comments (over 7 pages) the main complaints were that Ithelia doesn't fit ESO's art style, that the eyes look weird (that's why the Innsmouth and fish jokes were made) and that there seem to be animation issues with her facial movements when she speaks. Except for 2 people no one complained about her being "unattractive" (or claimed she should be "beautified") and "race" was only mentioned once when someone said Ithelia reminds them of an Indian actress (while others feel reminded of Cher, Britney Spears or Billie Eilish, among others). No one complained about Nocturnal being depicted as a Redguard in ESO, btw, so why would people complain about Ithelia looking "non-white" (which, in my opinion, isn't even true, if we look at the merch statue of her, her depiction in cinematics, etc)?

xylena_lazarow

Syldras wrote: »

so why would people complain about Ithelia looking "non-white"

Uhh... racism? Half this thread is people complaining "diversity" and some three letter agencies.

colossalvoids

Syldras wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Gamers when an npc isn't white:
Gamers when a female character doesn't get them revved up:

No one complained about Nocturnal being depicted as a Redguard in ESO, btw

Actually people did, but gave up as it was met with silence unlike this time. But the issue wasn't the race chosen, but a bland look and going far away from elder scrolls depiction seen previously which people attributed to it.

Syldras

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Uhh... racism? Half this thread is people complaining "diversity" and some three letter agencies.

Half of the thread? I saw one post about this "Sweet Baby whatever" that I never heard of (I'm not in any gamer communities, the ESO forum is the only gaming forum I use), someone mentioning "DEI" which I also had to look up (I'm not from the USA and don't have a clue about most US or English abbreviations except those commonly used in texts), and then several people agreed that Ithelia's look very certainly does not have anything to do with any "diversity" thoughts or some obscure "ideology" which some people online use the scapegoat for everything they dislike. The big consensus in this thread seemed to be that Ithelia's facial animation and eyes are botched, nothing more.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Actually people did, but gave up as it was met with silence unlike this time. But the issue wasn't the race chosen, but a bland look and going far away from elder scrolls depiction seen previously which people attributed to it.

Yeah, exactly, that's what I meant. People disliked that she just looks like a random human npc, just with fancy clothes (not even fancy anymore since everyone can buy them in the crown store), but it wasn't about her character model being Redguard. I'm quite sure people would have criticized a random Nord woman in that dress all the same.

SickleCider

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

so why would people complain about Ithelia looking "non-white"

Uhh... racism? Half this thread is people complaining "diversity" and some three letter agencies.

To be fair, I did only spot one comment conspiracy theorizing about the involvement of three letter agencies (I can't find it now) and the rest was benign discussion about consultation agencies and the allegations lodged at one particular agency, that then kind of spiraled into a discussion about fantasy bigotry. I thought the following conversation was fine.

Syldras wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Gamers when an npc isn't white:
Gamers when a female character doesn't get them revved up:

I've been following this thread since page 1. Except for maybe 3 or 4 weird comments (over 7 pages) the main complaints were that Ithelia doesn't fit ESO's art style, that the eyes look weird (that's why the Innsmouth and fish jokes were made) and that there seem to be animation issues with her facial movements when she speaks. Except for 2 people no one complained about her being "unattractive" (or claimed she should be "beautified") and "race" was only mentioned once when someone said Ithelia reminds them of an Indian actress (while others feel reminded of Cher, Britney Spears or Billie Eilish, among others). No one complained about Nocturnal being depicted as a Redguard in ESO, btw, so why would people complain about Ithelia looking "non-white" (which, in my opinion, isn't even true, if we look at the merch statue of her, her depiction in cinematics, etc)?

I've been following this thread pretty closely, too, and I've had a different perspective of it. I counted easily many more comments going off about the ugliness of the character. I think a lot of the more inflammatory commentary has had its edges smoothed off or been removed altogether, but there was a fixation with her lips (not the rigging, the fullness of them) that particularly hasn't set well with me. True, in a vacuum no one has been directly racist, but as another user said, Ithelia's presentation in the game engine (which is the topic of discussion) bears "non-euro-centric features." Directly calling these features out as ugly isn't a good look. And, while Ithelia isn't a real person, imagine for a moment that someone with those kind of features may be reading the thread. How do you imagine they would feel?

My commentary about the commentary about Innsmouth is just an observation about something I found kind of funny, given the discussion on the table. Lovecraft was a very bigoted man, and it set the tenor for a lot of his writing. Seeing it referenced here was atmospherically funny to me. I understand it was in reference to the deadness of her eyes (which I acknowledge is spooky but I kind of don't hate it), but it was very much a "ha that's funny" moment for me. Edit: I want to say the words I chose in that post could have been better, because reading back it does come off as abrasive. I don't think anyone talking about Innsmouth was trying to be offensive, just maybe not aware of the cosmic context.

I hope you don't feel attacked by this response. I haven't necessarily agreed with everything you've said in this thread but I'm not accusing you personally of anything. I can see you're trying to have an honest discussion in here.

SilverBride

While I do find Ithelia very creepy looking I've come to the realization that maybe she should look this way. She is a Daedra Prince after all, not a "normal humanoid", and should look the part.