Ithelia looks so weird

meekmiko · June 5

Not sure where people are pulling Britney Spears or Cher from, lawl.
I'm definitely getting Billie Eilish vibes from her tho.

Muizer · June 5

Morimizo wrote: »

It's not that Ithelia looks strange, it's that she too closely resembles a real world (not Tamriel!) human.

Dark hair, tan skin, blue eyes ...... Ithelia looks rather Italian to me.

Syldras · June 5

Soarora wrote: »

I think she looks fine, she just doesn’t have euro-centric features.

In which region of Earth do fish-eyed people live? I want to avoid it.

(It's mostly the eyes. I don't think lips or any other aspects of her face are the problem, except for that it doesn't look like a typical ESO character's face).

meekmiko wrote: »

Not sure where people are pulling Britney Spears or Cher from, lawl.

https://gear.bethesda.net/products/the-elder-scrolls-online-forgotten-daedric-prince-statue

Although I have no clue how Britney Spears looks nowadays, to be honest.

Soarora · June 5

Syldras wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I think she looks fine, she just doesn’t have euro-centric features.

In which region of Earth do fish-eyed people live? I want to avoid it.

(It's mostly the eyes. I don't think lips or any other aspects of her face are the problem, except for that it doesn't look like a typical ESO character's face).

meekmiko wrote: »

Not sure where people are pulling Britney Spears or Cher from, lawl.

https://gear.bethesda.net/products/the-elder-scrolls-online-forgotten-daedric-prince-statue

Although I have no clue how Britney Spears looks nowadays, to be honest.

I agree that the eyes are the problem, that's what made a huge difference in my edits. My "I think she looks fine" is directed at people thinking her lips look too large.

vsrs_au · June 5

NeuroticPixels wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Is she sporting what could be a slightly updated character model? They eventually NEED to do that

That was my first guess. I’m all for updated NPCs but I know some players will have an absolute meltdown if their characters get touched.

If any of my characters look different one day due to a game update, that will be the last day I login to the game.

Syldras · June 5

vsrs_au wrote: »

If any of my characters look different one day due to a game update, that will be the last day I login to the game.

I would probably accept it in the end, if they give us free appearance change tokens to fix everything that looks off. And if the characters don't end up looking like Ithelia.

TaSheen · June 5

Syldras wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

If any of my characters look different one day due to a game update, that will be the last day I login to the game.

I would probably accept it in the end, if they give us free appearance change tokens to fix everything that looks off. And if the characters don't end up looking like Ithelia.

I won't. I went through this twice - and I left both games in the dust because my girls did NOT look like themselves. Not going there again.

Gaebriel0410 · June 5

Huh I did the quest where you first see her earlier today and thought she looked very pretty! She gave me Rosaria Dawson vibes. Not sure if you can make that face in the ceator, but to me she looked quite in line with the rest of the game artstyle wise, at least on max settings. I hope we'll get a similar hairstyle though, I love long hair with braids like that!

Perhaps there was an early glitch with her? She wasn't crosseyed when I saw her, and neither did she have strange facial animations. Though I only saw her in one scene, in the first quest where you meet her.

She deffo doesn't looks like she is duckfacing, those are pretty normal lips.

Syldras · June 5

TaSheen wrote: »

I won't. I went through this twice - and I left both games in the dust because my girls did NOT look like themselves. Not going there again.

I would be happier if they don't make any changes, but if they did, I'd probably come to terms with it because I like TES lore too much and it would be a pity to miss out on new lore and stories. Which is the main reason I'm here.

It probably helps that I've played some of my characters in different TES games (beginning with TES3 Morrowind), so I'm already used to seeing slightly different versions of them.

TaSheen · June 5

There's a huge difference in adjusting to the way a new single player game sets up character creation, and having the devs force my girls to look totally unlike themselves in an MMO.

Dax_Draconis · June 5

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

She looks like a second life avatar on medium settings.

She might look better as an Avatar Imposter.

spartaxoxo · June 5

Syldras wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I won't. I went through this twice - and I left both games in the dust because my girls did NOT look like themselves. Not going there again.

I would be happier if they don't make any changes, but if they did, I'd probably come to terms with it because I like TES lore too much and it would be a pity to miss out on new lore and stories. Which is the main reason I'm here.

It probably helps that I've played some of my characters in different TES games (beginning with TES3 Morrowind), so I'm already used to seeing slightly different versions of them.

I agree. I personally don't want my character touched, and I'd probably even quit for a bit over it. But then I'd get over it because I'm a sucker for Elder Scrolls games. Like, they'd have to mess up worse than that to lose me as a customer if I'm being so real right now. The actual gameplay would have to suffer, not just my characters' look.

TaSheen · June 5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I won't. I went through this twice - and I left both games in the dust because my girls did NOT look like themselves. Not going there again.

I would be happier if they don't make any changes, but if they did, I'd probably come to terms with it because I like TES lore too much and it would be a pity to miss out on new lore and stories. Which is the main reason I'm here.

It probably helps that I've played some of my characters in different TES games (beginning with TES3 Morrowind), so I'm already used to seeing slightly different versions of them.

I agree. I personally don't want my character touched, and I'd probably even quit for a bit over it. But then I'd get over it because I'm a sucker for Elder Scrolls games. Like, they'd have to mess up worse than that to lose me as a customer if I'm being so real right now. The actual gameplay would have to suffer, not just my characters' look.

My characters are integral to my enjoyment of a game. Screw them up, I'm gone. I'm perfectly happy to keep on playing Oblivion and Skyrim (as I'm still doing, alongside ESO) because I can make my girls look the way I want them to look, and - NO ONE CAN CHANGE THEM.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · June 6

TaSheen wrote: »

NeuroticPixels wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Is she sporting what could be a slightly updated character model? They eventually NEED to do that

That was my first guess. I’m all for updated NPCs but I know some players will have an absolute meltdown if their characters get touched.

Yes. Absolutely, especially if it's something horrendous like Ithelia.

Agree. If this is the way the hypothetical ‘update’ would look, save it for a different game!

dcam86b14_ESO · June 6

I told someone before that she looks like a Muppet from the dark crystal

TDVM · June 6

I hope they redo her face and make it more attractive and more suitable for this character, otherwise it's just.... -

amig186 · June 6

Art style aside, it seems like it's just the eyes making her look uncanny. If they adjusted their shape and position a bit and retextured the eyeballs to be less dead looking, she would look ok. The lower half of the face seems alright to me.

Syldras · June 6

TDVM wrote: »

I hope they redo her face and make it more attractive and more suitable for this character

I don't even think that characters have to look attractive. Quite the opposite, actually: A fictional world needs people of all kinds to be "realistic" or "believable".

The thing I care most is artistic congruency. Characters should fit the overall art style.

And a little less horrid eyes would be nice, too.

Soarora · June 6

Syldras wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

I hope they redo her face and make it more attractive and more suitable for this character

I don't even think that characters have to look attractive. Quite the opposite, actually: A fictional world needs people of all kinds to be "realistic" or "believable".

The thing I care most is artistic congruency. Characters should fit the overall art style.

And a little less horrid eyes would be nice, too.

True that. I’ll never get over the whole thread about Isobel’s eyebrows…

But yeah, really the problems boil down to: her model being weirdly different from the others, the eyes not facing the same direction, the rigging being weird, and her head looks too big.

Syldras · June 6

Soarora wrote: »

True that. I’ll never get over the whole thread about Isobel’s eyebrows…

And she didn't even look bad. I mean, I have no clue about what's fashionable nowadays (never cared for it and it's nothing my friends or acquaintances talk about), but she... just looked like a friendly young woman to me?!

Plada · June 6

Maybe in another game her face would look harmonious. But when a face model deviates so much from the overall style of the game, it’s terrible.

This is not just some random character. This is the main character of the new chapter, you tied the plot around it, and made such a mistake?! I understand, she is Daedric Princes, they probably wanted to make her special. But this?

And yes, the quality of her face model? her hair? hackwork

Elsonso · June 6

.

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Huh I did the quest where you first see her earlier today and thought she looked very pretty! She gave me Rosaria Dawson vibes. Not sure if you can make that face in the ceator, but to me she looked quite in line with the rest of the game artstyle wise, at least on max settings. I hope we'll get a similar hairstyle though, I love long hair with braids like that!

Rosaria Dawson would match my impression of how the character would look from exposure to prior art. It would definitely match the fan art a lot better than what I see in the pictures provided in this thread.

amig186 wrote: »

Art style aside, it seems like it's just the eyes making her look uncanny. If they adjusted their shape and position a bit and retextured the eyeballs to be less dead looking, she would look ok. The lower half of the face seems alright to me.

Ithelia, per the pictures in this thread, deviates from the norm in a manner that does not really make sense, except considering that someone at ZOS decided to change up things just for her.

A Daedric Prince can pick whatever look they want. Ithelia's appearance is not outside the realm of possibility, but it is surprising. As we have seen with other Daedric Princes that identify as female, we would expect a high degree of shared traits with existing races. Why would she deviate from the norm in the manner we see above?

Per the pictures, she is pulling off the bar maid from the Winking Skeever, after a particularly busy night, morning after, quite effectively. I find it hard to believe this was a chosen appearance, given an unlimited palette to work with.

This is what I expect her to look like, so maybe the in-game appearance is currently bugged.

(Credit @TESOnline on Twitter)

TDVM · June 6

Syldras wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

I hope they redo her face and make it more attractive and more suitable for this character

I don't even think that characters have to look attractive. Quite the opposite, actually: A fictional world needs people of all kinds to be "realistic" or "believable".

The thing I care most is artistic congruency. Characters should fit the overall art style.

And a little less horrid eyes would be nice, too.

There is a contradiction in your post.
The fictional world doesn't require characters in games to be "realistic" and "believable", players demand it because they want reality to transfer into the game.
But that doesn't stop a character in a fictional world from being appealing, especially to a Daedra prince. And what they did to her... well, it's a joke.

So the rhetorical question is: why add a "realistic" and "believable" appearance if it's a fictional world and doesn't have to match "reality", and why not make an attractive character, especially a once-new Daedra prince, who would be remembered in a good way, not the way we're discussing now? But if that doesn't make sense to you, then if we're talking about "believability" and "realism" then aren't there attractive people in the real world? If you want "realism" and believability".....

And it's probably wrong somehow when the Daedra Prince looks worse than any npc in the game and doesn't match the style of the game

Morvan · June 6

I was delaying the main quest as I usually do all the side stuff first, saw people saying she looked ugly and thought they were exaggerating, finally got to find her just now and I'm surprised, she actually looks worse than I imagined.

It's not just how her model looks off in comparison to the ESO style, they managed to make her unrealistic with that lifeless look and her mouth is totally desynchronized with her lines, she looks like a monstruosity from an old PS2 game, it's hard to even take it seriously.

Syldras · June 6

TDVM wrote: »

There is a contradiction in your post.
The fictional world doesn't require characters in games to be "realistic" and "believable", players demand it because they want reality to transfer into the game.

Of course it's the audience that wants and defines "believability" (and does that by comparing it to what they know from real life). I thought that was clear from what I wrote, as a story has no capability to judge itself, so the term "being believable" has to refer to the audience.

And certainly it is possible to write a story differently, but it is doubtful whether the majority of the audience will find it appealing if it differs too much from what they are used to and perceive as "normal", "realistic" or "relatable".

Also, I never said that Ithelia wasn't "allowed" to be beautiful. I just find the mindset of some players who think that every female character has to meet current beauty standards, or that that would be the most important characteristic, questionable.

SilverBride · June 6

I don't think she has to be beautiful... just not creepy.

TDVM · June 6

Syldras wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

There is a contradiction in your post.
The fictional world doesn't require characters in games to be "realistic" and "believable", players demand it because they want reality to transfer into the game.

Of course it's the audience that wants and defines "believability" (and does that by comparing it to what they know from real life). I thought that was clear from what I wrote, as a story has no capability to judge itself, so the term "being believable" has to refer to the audience.

And certainly it is possible to write a story differently, but it is doubtful whether the majority of the audience will find it appealing if it differs too much from what they are used to and perceive as "normal", "realistic" or "relatable".

Also, I never said that Ithelia wasn't "allowed" to be beautiful. I just find the mindset of some players who think that every female character has to meet current beauty standards, or that that would be the most important characteristic, questionable.

Most viewers either don't care or they don't know what a forum is. You're right that most viewers are unlikely to like it if it's too different from what they're used to and perceive as "normal", "realistic" or "close". But don't conclude from that that every female character has to be beautiful, it's just you giving it that meaning when others don't say that. And those who are unhappy with her looks just want her to fit the style of the game, not the style of the fish, as noted above

Elsonso · June 6

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think she has to be beautiful... just not creepy.

I agree. Not creepy.

Ithelia can look like anything, and given that Daedric Princes generally have an ego larger than their realm and seem strangely infatuated with Mundus and Tamriel, what should she decide to look like? I mean... if she gets to pick... then?

Muizer · June 6

meekmiko wrote: »

Not sure where people are pulling Britney Spears or Cher from, lawl.
I'm definitely getting Billie Eilish vibes from her tho.

This is fun! Here's one I found. Includes the braids. Jessica Green in The Outpost

SatanicSister · June 6

Seems like devs wanted to make her look like Gina Torres but did it wrong.