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We should get Account Wide quests.
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ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Or we could play our characters as was intended.
But I thought it was “play as you want”? So many folks around here love to throw that around…
Play as you want — unless you’re someone who enjoys PVP.
Play as you want was referring to being able to play through the zones in any order and with characters in other factions. This was not possible before One Tamriel.
And yet, that phrase gets twisted around allllll the time to justify all kinds of requests for pure PVEers. Funny how when the tables are turned and PVPers make QOL requests that will help them to enjoy more of their preferred content, it’s all “no, that’s not what it means.”
It starts to go beyond QOL when you can make a brand new character on a different class and instantly have everything available to you just because you did it on a single character. Some level of development and effort needs to remain in place when it comes to skills and skill points.
That’s fair, but then again… it’s already possible to purchase skyshards / skill points and skill lines via the Crown Store, so the precedent already exists for skipping the tedious content so many of us would rather not do multiple times. Why is the line drawn firmly at having the ability to auto share zone quest achievement rewards among alts, but we all just collectively shrug our shoulders at purchasable skyshards, guild progress, and Assault/Support skill progress?
I wish there was a way to do this so that both the rp and pvp crowds could be happy (and the in-between players like myself)
Perhaps a memento that could be unlocked, which grants the account the ability to have account-wide skillpoints earned from quests? Earnable in game, and entierly optional, so that if you choose not to purchase it, it won't change anything about how you earn skill points. (It should be earnable through both pvp and pve means)
I do like that idea, and I think it would work. As you say, it would bridge the gap between the PVE/RP camp and the PVP/endgame PVE camp without affecting core gameplay.
Alas, people in the former camp really don’t seem happy for us to even discuss the very idea of having options… OP made it clear that any sort of system that would reward quest completion (or awards associated with quest completion) across the account would be optional, and yet so many piled on to say that no, every character should have to earn it — even the alts of players who don’t care much about the RP aspect of the game.
I think it's a response driven by the fear left behind by the AWA changes. I'll admit that my first gut instinct is complete resistance due to the unknown factor of how ZOS will choose to implement such requests, with the rationale that crushing the conversation will prevent such a thing from happening again. I can be prone to replying exactly the same way to such threads, so I empathize with that mindset.
I can only speak from my own perspective, however, so I don't want to make assumptions about what others are thinking.
But I also realize that remaining in that state of total resistance isn't really helping me, nor is it helping other players, so I've tried shifting my perspective to explaining my reasoning while offering a compromise in the hopes that ZOS will be open to considering options which please multiple types of player.
For me, as long as I have the choice to go through the process of earning through questing, I'm okay with other players getting an unlock system that let's them play differently from me. I like the gameplay loop as it is, but I get why others don't.
(Side note: I'm curious about your thoughts on including account-wide unlocks of AVA ranks and the associated skill points. Should it be included in the system if the account has at least one AVA lvl 50 already?
I personally wouldn't go for it myself because I like raising my AVA rank on all characters/classes, but that's also been a request along the same lines as this one. Since AVA includes skill points and we're talking about PVP, I thought I'd mention it. PVP players earned those skill points through PVP, so if they want an optional account wide unlock for them, it might be a good idea.
One thing I'll say is I wouldn't want my EP stars getting applied to my AD and DC characters, but that's a separate matter.)Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Or we could play our characters as was intended.
But I thought it was “play as you want”? So many folks around here love to throw that around…
Play as you want — unless you’re someone who enjoys PVP.
Play as you want was referring to being able to play through the zones in any order and with characters in other factions. This was not possible before One Tamriel.
And yet, that phrase gets twisted around allllll the time to justify all kinds of requests for pure PVEers. Funny how when the tables are turned and PVPers make QOL requests that will help them to enjoy more of their preferred content, it’s all “no, that’s not what it means.”
It starts to go beyond QOL when you can make a brand new character on a different class and instantly have everything available to you just because you did it on a single character. Some level of development and effort needs to remain in place when it comes to skills and skill points.
That’s fair, but then again… it’s already possible to purchase skyshards / skill points and skill lines via the Crown Store, so the precedent already exists for skipping the tedious content so many of us would rather not do multiple times. Why is the line drawn firmly at having the ability to auto share zone quest achievement rewards among alts, but we all just collectively shrug our shoulders at purchasable skyshards, guild progress, and Assault/Support skill progress?
I wish there was a way to do this so that both the rp and pvp crowds could be happy (and the in-between players like myself)
Perhaps a memento that could be unlocked, which grants the account the ability to have account-wide skillpoints earned from quests? Earnable in game, and entierly optional, so that if you choose not to purchase it, it won't change anything about how you earn skill points. (It should be earnable through both pvp and pve means)
I do like that idea, and I think it would work. As you say, it would bridge the gap between the PVE/RP camp and the PVP/endgame PVE camp without affecting core gameplay.
Alas, people in the former camp really don’t seem happy for us to even discuss the very idea of having options… OP made it clear that any sort of system that would reward quest completion (or awards associated with quest completion) across the account would be optional, and yet so many piled on to say that no, every character should have to earn it — even the alts of players who don’t care much about the RP aspect of the game.
You've seen posters in this thread explain the reason for disregarding the OP's claim that his suggestion would be optional. It's that he can't guarantee that, and a lot of players have had their fingers burnt before when optional suggestions have been picked up by ZOS and implemented without being made optional. Quite simply, nobody trusts ZOS any more to implement what the players have asked for in the way that they have asked for.
So because there’s a small chance ZOS might take a suggestion like this and not make it optional (unlikely, but whatever), we can’t even have the discussion without a whole bunch of negativity expressed towards the OP’s idea that just straight up ignores the optional aspect of it? Just a flat overwhelming chorus of “nos” and “I don’t play my character like that, so I don’t want this kind of thing added to the game” without even acknowledging that it would be a nice option for people who aren’t into the RP aspect of the game?
These forums can be so narrow-minded. It’s difficult to have conversations about things we’d like to have when negative people who are so set in their opinions just shut down discussion.
No-one has shut down discussion. Everyone in this thread is entitled to express their opinion, I'm sorry if yours turns out to be a minority view with the overwhelming majority of commenters being opposed to the OP's suggestion, but they're as entitled to express their opinion as you are. Disagreeing with something isn't the same as being negative about the discussion. It's a perfectly civil discussion, it's not the fault of those opposed to the OP's suggestion that there aren't more players supporting it.Edited by Tandor on June 4, 2024 10:03PM7 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Or we could play our characters as was intended.
But I thought it was “play as you want”? So many folks around here love to throw that around…
Play as you want — unless you’re someone who enjoys PVP.
Play as you want was referring to being able to play through the zones in any order and with characters in other factions. This was not possible before One Tamriel.
And yet, that phrase gets twisted around allllll the time to justify all kinds of requests for pure PVEers. Funny how when the tables are turned and PVPers make QOL requests that will help them to enjoy more of their preferred content, it’s all “no, that’s not what it means.”
It starts to go beyond QOL when you can make a brand new character on a different class and instantly have everything available to you just because you did it on a single character. Some level of development and effort needs to remain in place when it comes to skills and skill points.
That’s fair, but then again… it’s already possible to purchase skyshards / skill points and skill lines via the Crown Store, so the precedent already exists for skipping the tedious content so many of us would rather not do multiple times. Why is the line drawn firmly at having the ability to auto share zone quest achievement rewards among alts, but we all just collectively shrug our shoulders at purchasable skyshards, guild progress, and Assault/Support skill progress?
I wish there was a way to do this so that both the rp and pvp crowds could be happy (and the in-between players like myself)
Perhaps a memento that could be unlocked, which grants the account the ability to have account-wide skillpoints earned from quests? Earnable in game, and entierly optional, so that if you choose not to purchase it, it won't change anything about how you earn skill points. (It should be earnable through both pvp and pve means)
I do like that idea, and I think it would work. As you say, it would bridge the gap between the PVE/RP camp and the PVP/endgame PVE camp without affecting core gameplay.
Alas, people in the former camp really don’t seem happy for us to even discuss the very idea of having options… OP made it clear that any sort of system that would reward quest completion (or awards associated with quest completion) across the account would be optional, and yet so many piled on to say that no, every character should have to earn it — even the alts of players who don’t care much about the RP aspect of the game.
I think it's a response driven by the fear left behind by the AWA changes. I'll admit that my first gut instinct is complete resistance due to the unknown factor of how ZOS will choose to implement such requests, with the rationale that crushing the conversation will prevent such a thing from happening again. I can be prone to replying exactly the same way to such threads, so I empathize with that mindset.
I can only speak from my own perspective, however, so I don't want to make assumptions about what others are thinking.
But I also realize that remaining in that state of total resistance isn't really helping me, nor is it helping other players, so I've tried shifting my perspective to explaining my reasoning while offering a compromise in the hopes that ZOS will be open to considering options which please multiple types of player.
For me, as long as I have the choice to go through the process of earning through questing, I'm okay with other players getting an unlock system that let's them play differently from me. I like the gameplay loop as it is, but I get why others don't.
(Side note: I'm curious about your thoughts on including account-wide unlocks of AVA ranks and the associated skill points. Should it be included in the system if the account has at least one AVA lvl 50 already?
I personally wouldn't go for it myself because I like raising my AVA rank on all characters/classes, but that's also been a request along the same lines as this one. Since AVA includes skill points and we're talking about PVP, I thought I'd mention it. PVP players earned those skill points through PVP, so if they want an optional account wide unlock for them, it might be a good idea.
One thing I'll say is I wouldn't want my EP stars getting applied to my AD and DC characters, but that's a separate matter.)
Thanks for a measured response that is open to discussion and different viewpoints — it’s often sorely missed around these parts.
I definitely see how ZOS’s previous implementation of account-wide achievements could leave people feeling sour on the idea of other account-wide features. However, I do also think it would be unfair to ZOS to assume they couldn’t at least learn from their prior mistakes. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I’ve often thought about the possibility of account-wide unlocks for AVA ranks and shared AVA progress. People so often look at AVA rank as a measure of overall PVP experience. My alts are all fairly low rank, but that’s only because I enjoy using them to switch things up a bit / keep the gameplay fresh and experiment with different builds. Their rank does not reflect the time I’ve put into Cyrodiil over the years. I’d be open to account-wide AVA unlocks if they were optional, so that people who enjoy levelling their rank on a character by character basis can still do that.
There are some logistical problems that could arise from optional account-wide progress, of course. For instance, what happens if someone accidentally hits the toggle to make things “account-wide” without intending to? Would it be possible to reverse that accident easily? All stuff to think about. If ZOS could pull it off, it would make ESO one of the most alt-friendly MMOs on the market.1 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thanks for a measured response that is open to discussion and different viewpoints — it’s often sorely missed around these parts.
I definitely see how ZOS’s previous implementation of account-wide achievements could leave people feeling sour on the idea of other account-wide features. However, I do also think it would be unfair to ZOS to assume they couldn’t at least learn from their prior mistakes. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I’ve often thought about the possibility of account-wide unlocks for AVA ranks and shared AVA progress. People so often look at AVA rank as a measure of overall PVP experience. My alts are all fairly low rank, but that’s only because I enjoy using them to switch things up a bit / keep the gameplay fresh and experiment with different builds. Their rank does not reflect the time I’ve put into Cyrodiil over the years. I’d be open to account-wide AVA unlocks if they were optional, so that people who enjoy levelling their rank on a character by character basis can still do that.
There are some logistical problems that could arise from optional account-wide progress, of course. For instance, what happens if someone accidentally hits the toggle to make things “account-wide” without intending to? Would it be possible to reverse that accident easily? All stuff to think about. If ZOS could pull it off, it would make ESO one of the most alt-friendly MMOs on the market.
Thanks for being open to my perspectives Hopefully ZOS will be attentive to the worries of players like myself and others, should they ever roll something like this out.
I'll admit that there's times when I see the benefit of what was done with AWA, even if I will always miss individual quest achievements on each character.
When it comes to PVP, I feel it's important that I stop and consider how such things could aid in the longevity of one of my favorite game modes. If optional changes like these would help our flagging population and encourage new players interested in PVP to join, then they shouldn't be dismissed. (Really, options like these would benefit the longevity of the game as a whole.)
I agree with you on the subject of AVA ranks- perhaps that upgrade could be a separate unlock, so PVP players who like raising AVA but don't like questing more than once can have some flexibility.
I have the feeling that such an account change might be irreversible. It seems like something that would have to be permanent.
There would have to be a few fail-safes in place if so, such as making what the item does very clear, pop up box where you type "CONFIRM", ext. Just to protect accounts.
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die1 -
Mephilis78✭✭✭Dude I fell behind on quests when Morrowind came out. The expansion, not TES 3. I was on Xbox at the time, my main was just starting Cadwell's gold. Then I accidentally deleted him when I was trying to think out my Alts. Then I started all over again on PC when I got a gaming laptop. Granted I still had my character from Beta, but he was a friggin mess."'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'" The Many Headed Talos - Michael Kirkbride1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
Fine? Ignorable would probably be a better term. ZOS is building a game for a player base that is growing in play style diversity, each of them playing a sightly different ESO for slightly different reasons. With the proper optional implementation, players in one group can simply ignore what is going on in the other group, even if they are playing the game for reasons that are in conflict. I don't think of that as "fine"... "ignorable" just seems to fit better.
When I step back and look at this, I see a bigger picture.
If this is an RPG, then bypasses like Skyshards and account-wide quests are outside of what should be the core vision for the game. They built an RPG where the player progresses a character from Level 1, building skills, doing quests, gaining experience, and all of that. That is obviously a core vision for the game, so all of these bypasses are divergent from that core vision.
The question that I see in this thread... Should ZOS build a game for players playing outside of the game they built?1 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
No, not even then. Skill lines can be bought. Skill points can be bought. If this request is primarily related to scribing, ZOS could sell that too. But quest completion should never be accountwide.3 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
No, not even then. Skill lines can be bought. Skill points can be bought. If this request is primarily related to scribing, ZOS could sell that too. But quest completion should never be accountwide.
I don't really care what others choose to do as far as questing. As long as I can continue to quest as I do now, if others want to have account wide questing it IS fine with me. The not fine part will be if it's not optional - that's a game killer for me.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
No, not even then. Skill lines can be bought. Skill points can be bought. If this request is primarily related to scribing, ZOS could sell that too. But quest completion should never be accountwide.
I don't really care what others choose to do as far as questing. As long as I can continue to quest as I do now, if others want to have account wide questing it IS fine with me. The not fine part will be if it's not optional - that's a game killer for me.
Maybe hypothetically, but after AWA, I don’t want ZOS going anywhere near accountwide questing for exactly such reason. Something would be broken, and unlike some accountwide things, there is nothing to be gained not already available another way and, as far as I’m aware, zero precedent for it.
I can’t hardly even bring myself to write that I hypothetically agree with you as I just imagine it being introduced as a very UNoptional new feature to improve server performance...
2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
No, not even then. Skill lines can be bought. Skill points can be bought. If this request is primarily related to scribing, ZOS could sell that too. But quest completion should never be accountwide.
I don't really care what others choose to do as far as questing. As long as I can continue to quest as I do now, if others want to have account wide questing it IS fine with me. The not fine part will be if it's not optional - that's a game killer for me.
Maybe hypothetically, but after AWA, I don’t want ZOS going anywhere near accountwide questing for exactly such reason. Something would be broken, and unlike some accountwide things, there is nothing to be gained not already available another way and, as far as I’m aware, zero precedent for it.
I can’t hardly even bring myself to write that I hypothetically agree with you as I just imagine it being introduced as a very UNoptional new feature to improve server performance...
Well, yup. That's the big if.... because once you've been around here a while, you come to realize that mostly "optional" quit happening a while back now.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »No, by the Eight, just no
Well.... yeah. BUT if it was guaranteed optional, that would be fine. Of course.... that's.... the issue, isn't it?
No, not even then. Skill lines can be bought. Skill points can be bought. If this request is primarily related to scribing, ZOS could sell that too. But quest completion should never be accountwide.
I don't really care what others choose to do as far as questing. As long as I can continue to quest as I do now, if others want to have account wide questing it IS fine with me. The not fine part will be if it's not optional - that's a game killer for me.
Maybe hypothetically, but after AWA, I don’t want ZOS going anywhere near accountwide questing for exactly such reason. Something would be broken, and unlike some accountwide things, there is nothing to be gained not already available another way and, as far as I’m aware, zero precedent for it.
I can’t hardly even bring myself to write that I hypothetically agree with you as I just imagine it being introduced as a very UNoptional new feature to improve server performance...
Well, yup. That's the big if.... because once you've been around here a while, you come to realize that mostly "optional" quit happening a while back now.
Exactly! So the only response can be an unequivocal, “No, by the Divines, NOOOOO!”2 -
jcaceresw✭✭✭✭✭I like the proposal but that should only apply for those quest that do not give skill points (main quests). I won't like to miss them just because of that change. Then again, the proposal will also mean losing experience if leveling a new character or champion points. So better do not to implement that change.1 -
Kesstryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭licenturion wrote: »I wonder all the people saying NO, if they listen to all the voice acting and choose all the dialog options every time they play a quest for the 9th time with an alt.
Just genuine curiosity...
Actually I do, I enjoy getting lost in my characters' heads and mentally role playing, and I do like the voice acting. I quest to enjoy a story, not to speed run to get skill points.HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts! Contact @Kesstryl in-game to join.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »I wonder all the people saying NO, if they listen to all the voice acting and choose all the dialog options every time they play a quest for the 9th time with an alt.
Just genuine curiosity...
Adding to what Kesstryl said...
I do not feel the need to take all of the dialog options. If I treat every option in the encounter like something my character needs to ask, then I realize my character has moldy Swiss cheese for a brain. Some of the dialog is for players who have no idea what is going on because the story or Lore is strange to them, or have forgotten because they started the quest two years ago.
That said, sometimes the quest assumes Jello Brain and silly questions, or silly statements, need to be chosen, just to get the quest to move forward. It is usually safe to ignore the NPC response because they aren't saying anything new or interesting, but it is annoying.
I am currently enjoying running my Arcanist through the Daggerfall Covenant base game quest line. It has been a few years since I did this, and while I remember all of the quests, it has been fun going through all of them again.
Uh... Unlike the Scriptorium quest line, which can be account wide... or better, a server wide unlock once the first player completes it on the server.
Edited by Elsonso on June 6, 2024 12:43PM1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »I wonder all the people saying NO, if they listen to all the voice acting and choose all the dialog options every time they play a quest for the 9th time with an alt.
Just genuine curiosity...
Meant to respond to this earlier, but (as usual) got sidetracked....
I choose all the dialog options the first time I do a quest. Following alts pick options that make sense for them, their backstories, and my mental RP for them.
I don't listen to VA. I really dislike VA in toto.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1
