A C E account wide (Alchemy, Cooking, Enchanting) Learned Stuff

Tenthirty2

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

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Ok let me explain it differently.
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Is it a bad idea? For some sure, for others not. ESO is FULL of grind so you'd think anything that lessens grind would be welcome.

Problem is one of the main goals when designing an MMO is to keep as many players in game, as long as possible and as often as possible.
So anything lessening grind likely wouldn't be adopted. Just look at mount training. And that used to be PER MOUNT, not per character.

There are TONS of suggestion threads that cross the forum pages every week, many are great ideas but they likely will never be implemented. It sucks to see the threads and for a second think "Ah yeah that would be cool... But it will never happen."

Good luck and who knows, there is always a small chance an idea will take wing. But don't set your hopes too high.
Bug fixes and such, usually more likely, but big changes to established systems like crafting I just wouldn't hold hope to it.

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Bucky_13

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

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That said, the second idea you proposed. Not many people argued against that one, I do agree with it. Would like to have more pets and mounts in the house. It would also incentivize players to buy more pets in the crown store so it would benefit ZOS. It has been suggested here before. More pets in houses would be nice.

As for the recipes suggestion, I disagree with that one. Unlike the other 4 these 3 can be learned in a matter of minutes for enchanting and alchemy, and with provisioning you can get the green ones fairly easily. You just need on each faction to buy recipes and put them in the bank. As for blue/purple recipes, they would become more or less worthless if this was implemented. It's one of those things that I find to not be in need of fixing.

EDIT: I've done this on 18 characters so far btw, 19th one currently. It just feels nice to improve the characters myself and not have it handed to me. Overall the way ESO handles alts is solid, the only thing that I find annoying is mount training.

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ZoeliTintanie

Bucky_13 wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

[Snip].

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That said, the second idea you proposed. Not many people argued against that one, I do agree with it. Would like to have more pets and mounts in the house. It would also incentivize players to buy more pets in the crown store so it would benefit ZOS. It has been suggested here before. More pets in houses would be nice.

As for the recipes suggestion, I disagree with that one. Unlike the other 4 these 3 can be learned in a matter of minutes for enchanting and alchemy, and with provisioning you can get the green ones fairly easily. You just need on each faction to buy recipes and put them in the bank. As for blue/purple recipes, they would become more or less worthless if this was implemented. It's one of those things that I find to not be in need of fixing.

EDIT: I've done this on 18 characters so far btw, 19th one currently. It just feels nice to improve the characters myself and not have it handed to me. Overall the way ESO handles alts is solid, the only thing that I find annoying is mount training.

Its a double standard, plain and simple. You like the way it is, you have all the recipes and have ways to get them and dont mind doing it 19 times. Insanity.

I want to do it once and have it unlocked for my alts if I level cooking for them, that recipe should be available for Banana Pudding.

Why is what you want more important than what i want, when what I want, you already have?

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Bucky_13

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

That said, the second idea you proposed. Not many people argued against that one, I do agree with it. Would like to have more pets and mounts in the house. It would also incentivize players to buy more pets in the crown store so it would benefit ZOS. It has been suggested here before. More pets in houses would be nice.

As for the recipes suggestion, I disagree with that one. Unlike the other 4 these 3 can be learned in a matter of minutes for enchanting and alchemy, and with provisioning you can get the green ones fairly easily. You just need on each faction to buy recipes and put them in the bank. As for blue/purple recipes, they would become more or less worthless if this was implemented. It's one of those things that I find to not be in need of fixing.

EDIT: I've done this on 18 characters so far btw, 19th one currently. It just feels nice to improve the characters myself and not have it handed to me. Overall the way ESO handles alts is solid, the only thing that I find annoying is mount training.

Its a double standard, plain and simple. You like the way it is, you have all the recipes and have ways to get them and dont mind doing it 19 times. Insanity.

I want to do it once and have it unlocked for my alts if I level cooking for them, that recipe should be available for Banana Pudding.

Why is what you want more important than what i want, when what I want, you already have?

Why is what you want more important than what I want? Also while we're at it, do you also want all skyshards unlocked for alts, mount training completed, maybe skip the leveling so they start at 50 with all skills unlocked? Or maybe all item traits researched? All of those things takes more time to do that what you want to do for a new character.

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Tandor

If all you want is to put a suggestion somewhere where the developers will read it, then you can do so through the "/feedback" function in the game. If you post the suggestion on the players' discussion forum then you'll get a discussion with other players, it's as simple as that.

MasterSpatula

Man, some folks are just absolutely determined to strip every vestige of this being an RPG out of the game.

redlink1979

Trade skills are fine as they are.

Vrienda

Honestly I want everything account wide but quests at this point. I like replaying questlines and RPing my way through them but learning all the motifs and grinding up skill trees again just flat out sucks.

SeaGtGruff

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I didn't read every line of every post in this thread.

The reason there are no "research" scrolls for Alchemy, Provisioning, and Enchanting is because they aren't needed, since we learn recipes and blueprints instantly upon consuming them-- there is no research time involved like there is with researching traits on craftable gear.

For that matter, learning new gear styles by consuming motif pages is also instant; that process is not sped up by consuming research scrolls because there is nothing to be sped up in that process-- you can't get any faster than "instantly."

(Okay, there may be a very small cooldown period before you can consume another recipe, blueprint, or motif, but I don't think that cooldown is related to "researching" anything; I think it's probably more to give the server time to process what happened and update the database. Besides, consuming research scrolls is subject to the same cooldown as consuming recipes.)

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've removed some back and forth from this thread as well as a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

Thank you for your understanding.

peacenote

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

So Provisioning, Alchemy and Enchanting have 0 Research. So no research scrolls to use/buy which leads to my request, which has probably been made a thousand times.

Dear Zos beings, may we all please have account-wide knowledge shared across our characters for the above professions so we can learn recipes we pick up instead of having to play the inventory-logout-login-logout-login game to give recipes to the main crafter?

Also, Housing, please let my noob carebear self have more than 10 pets in a house. There are sooooo many non-combat pets and mounts and even on Willowpond I can only put 10 minipets and a few mounts. Increase the slot capacity, pretty please?

Agree with #2, 100%.

Partially, cautiously agree with #1.

I have been extremely critical of the way AwA was implemented; it was a sledgehammer approach when it could have been done in a way that was inclusive of more playstyles. But, at this point, if you look at what we have now in the aftermath of the changes, it's a mixed model that could be considered immersion-breaking. Style pages, achievement rewards, set items (Sticker Book) and collectibles are account-wide, while motifs and recipes are not.

Therefore, I personally wouldn't have an issue with all recipes and motifs becoming account-wide, too. For consistency. I know they will probably not do this because of Crown Store reasons, though, and possibly because all of these items being account-wide would hurt the economy and the way some people earn gold, since from a supply and demand perspective, demand would go down. As a result, I think this is unlikely to happen.

I don't think that knowledge of runes or alchemy ingredients or the level of the three crafts should be account-wide. (It's unclear to me if this is being suggested, because technically only Provisioning has recipes. There are no recipes to create potions or runes.) That is part of learning the craft, to me. It's the difference between leveling vs. leveraging recipe or gear that you were holding once you hit the right level to use it. We can definitely pretend that the account has in the bank a reference book of all motifs and recipes found by any character. Or at least, I can. Because I've already had to pretend that's the case for style pages etc. etc. etc. But it does not make sense than my alt would know what "x" rune does without using it and trying it.

Now, there are also furnishing crafting plans, which for Provisioning, Alchemy, and Enchanting are called Designs, Formulae and Praxes. In my opinion, those could become account-wide for all crafts, not just these three.

Anyway, because so many "pick up and learn" items are account-wide already, I personally don't have a huge issue with the rest of those things becoming account-wide; I don't think it messes too much with the uniqueness of my characters. But I do understand why some people wouldn't want to lose even one more tiny aspect of character-specific-ness, because we've lost so much already. And from that perspective I would be equally fine with things staying the same. I also would be irritated if recipes became account-wide while motifs stayed per-character, because this truly would not make sense to me. Do both, or neither. They are basically the same kind of thing - books/paper acquired in support of crafting. At least right now you can make a thin justification for the current game world logic, in that it's books/paper which are still per character (including Mage's Guild books), since there's no book you open and read when you learn a style page.

Lastly, I don't think the "account-wide" is better than "per-character" argument is particularly compelling here. Per-character playstyle is equally valid to the account-wide playstyle. And honestly, the per-character playstyle needs some wins. Map progress is STILL broken!! But... I think there may be a case to be made here for game world consistency, which helps with immersion and also helps new players instinctively understand how the game works. It just depends on how many people understand the "piece of paper" distinction vs. how many people just feel that bind and pick up items are inconsistently handled and get confused.

PS. There could be a compromise in there somewhere. ZOS could make a "send to character" feature which would allow you to apply a recipe or motif to another character without having to do the login/logout dance.

Theist_VII

Knowing styles and being able to immediately use them are two separate things.

I’ve seen this quite a bit throughout the thread, where people tend to confuse the two.

Having a new member of your party (character list) learn all of the new styles immediately could be an easy RP as recipe books and construction guides exist in real life. Now, obviously you would need to have experience cooking to make the recipes perfectly, or of the respective trades.

There’s no reason why your characters couldn’t all share the same recipe/praxis, motif/style collections, while reinstating experience locks upon crafting of the different styles.

Ever try to learn a year one motif on a new character? You get a notification stating you need a higher craft skill to learn it… it’s as simple as changing “learn it” to “use it” while at tables.

Now if that still proposed a problem somehow to people, then there should be consumable “Recipe Books” and “Style Books” that you can interact with to share your learned plans across all of your characters. They could even sell it to us.

Theist_VII

Why this is even being suggested, is because ZOS is notorious for killing off playstyles, and forcing people to pick up new classes.

While that’s happening, it should be completely understandable why players would want to bypass any part of that grind.

IE. If I was a Necromancer right now, I would be throwing out the life boats and jumping ship.

Tandor

It isn't necessarily about role-playing, it's more about wanting to do things on alts rather than having them automatically given something because another character has done it before. Those who prefer to play the game fully with all their characters are indeed sick of their playstyle being progressively killed off, and every switch to account-wide is another step in that direction. There needs to be a balance maintained between the different playstyles.

ZoeliTintanie

I was simply talking about green, purple blue cooking, alchemy and enchanting recipes we find in the world.


I don't see how doing that 19 times is fun or RP immersive

Theist_VII

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I was simply talking about green, purple blue cooking, alchemy and enchanting recipes we find in the world.


I don't see how doing that 19 times is fun or RP immersive

What is an alchemy or enchanting recipe?

Are you referring to having to learn the reagents and runes again?

ZoeliTintanie

The things you figure out by clicking the runes to see what result they come up with so when my lvl 10 alt goes to the certification quest, i don't need google docs or spreadsheets or a good memory to fill out the daily quest request from the npc that says make a rune of trifling health.

I don't speak english fluently (its the 5th language i've learned, in order of learned) and im 43 years old, and I wasn't born here. So excuse the language barrier.

Enchanting recipes - the things the runes do, crafting decorations
alchemy recipes - the things the herbs do, and the recipes for decorations
cooking - the food recipes (green, blue, purple) starter stuff and cooking recipes

ZoeliTintanie

What if then, to make things less scary for so many people.

We add an npc/assistant that has all the learned recipes your main crafter does for cooking and alchemy.
On an alt, you can talk to this assistant and re-learn what your main has learned and your alt has the skill points invested to have it available to learn, for a fee of that recipes merchant cost.

Is that less-scary than having those recipes be account-wide-learned?

I really don't want to keep storing recipes in my bank just incase I want to learn it on an alt later if templars (my main and only class since 2019, came back in 2024 and having to re-do all those recipes, is insane just to play a class that is more up-to-date in design- arcanist, dragon knight, nightblade)

Does this help to convey what i'm actually saying or are we all still confused and thinking I'm asking for lvl 10 gold motifs to be unlocked for lvl 1 alts?

Theist_VII

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

The things you figure out by clicking the runes to see what result they come up with so when my lvl 10 alt goes to the certification quest, i don't need google docs or spreadsheets or a good memory to fill out the daily quest request from the npc that says make a rune of trifling health.

I don't speak english fluently (its the 5th language i've learned, in order of learned) and im 43 years old, and I wasn't born here. So excuse the language barrier.

Enchanting recipes - the things the runes do, crafting decorations
alchemy recipes - the things the herbs do, and the recipes for decorations
cooking - the food recipes (green, blue, purple) starter stuff and cooking recipes.

People are really arguing with you for not wanting to have to waste tons of runes and reagents turning question marks into values you already know? lol

Jofish

Hehe; Having grown up with no craft bag and a limited number of characters I gave a different crafting ability to each char. They had to carry their own mats. When provisioning became nuts I had a chef and a brewer. These little trifles are kinda meaningless. I still use the Chars that way.

peacenote

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Why this is even being suggested, is because ZOS is notorious for killing off playstyles, and forcing people to pick up new classes.

While that’s happening, it should be completely understandable why players would want to bypass any part of that grind.

IE. If I was a Necromancer right now, I would be throwing out the life boats and jumping ship.

A little ironic that you'd use the destruction of one playstyle to justify another.

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I was simply talking about green, purple blue cooking, alchemy and enchanting recipes we find in the world.


I don't see how doing that 19 times is fun or RP immersive

Just because it isn't fun to you, doesn't mean it can't be fun to someone else.

The problem here is this: yes, there are (at least) two perspectives. In my humble opinion, if you want something to be changed, ideally the suggestion for the change should not make things worse for any other playstyles... a truly great improvement would be a win/win for everyone and inclusive of all playstyles. Otherwise you're coming in and essentially disrespecting something that others like, suggesting that it be eliminated so you can get something you'd like. That's not going to be well-received by everyone. And, on this particular topic, the per-character playstyle was recently stomped on for account-wide achievements, so perhaps with that context you can understand why folks would be especially sensitive about that.

And I say this as someone who gave you a well-thought out response, at least partially supporting your idea, and suggesting a compromise.

ZoeliTintanie

We're not here talking about killing a playstyle. Stashing recipes in a bank isn't a playstyle.
Having to re-learn something 19 times isn't a playstyle.
Having to have the same blue recipe 19 times isn't a playstyle.

You can choose your playstyle of NOT having that recipe unlocked on alt, by not having the required points in that tree.

EXAMPLE>

MAIN Char : 10 alchemy, 10 cooking, 10 enchanting, 10 blacksmithing 10 weaponsmithing
ALT Chat : lvl 25 puts 10 points into cooking finally and learned rank 2 recipes. Now this alt can go to the cooking station and see what it can cook, that the main has learned and taught to the alt.

Because, like you guys said yourselves. immersion.
So the MAIN, TAUGHT the alt the recipes just like the main char, got the achievements to unlock dyes, costumes, mounts, etc but forgot to teach the alt how to make banana pudding or what a "TA" Rune does or the Properties of a Corn Flower?

Come on, are we really arguing to keep this oversight in game?
You want to n ot know that recipe then don't put 10 points into your alt, click the recipe and relearn it.
If you put 10 points into cooking on that alt, that recipe is there to use.

Easy peasy.

DaniimalsSF

I’d like to see everything account wide. And while we are at it… I’d like to see every item obtainable in many different ways. All items craftable and tradable. All items purchasable by all forms of in game currency. I’d also like to eliminate classes and make all skill lines available. This way everyone can “play as they want”.

You could make one character and unlock everything. You could make alts and immediately play them how you want. This could mean straight to your preferred version of endgame. Or you could also collect all the recipes again, travel to all the skyshard locations again, run around Stros M’kai naked. Nothing would stop you from repeating anything as many times as you want. And others with more limited time, or different preferred play styles would not have to repeat anything if they didn’t.

I love PVP. It is so much fun that I don’t need fabricated grinds to keep me playing. In fact the number one reason I choose not to log in is thinking about running a dungeon or even worse scrying a lead so I can try out a new build idea. They should focus on making content engaging enough to play that it doesn’t need some uneccesary system tied to it (undaunted keys) to get people to want to play it.

I don’t want to stop people from playing anyway they want, but want more ways to engage with the content we prefer opened up. Flame away.

Theist_VII

Preach, @DaniimalsSF.

ZoeliTintanie

Wow lol

peacenote

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

We're not here talking about killing a playstyle. Stashing recipes in a bank isn't a playstyle.
Having to re-learn something 19 times isn't a playstyle.
Having to have the same blue recipe 19 times isn't a playstyle.

You can choose your playstyle of NOT having that recipe unlocked on alt, by not having the required points in that tree.

EXAMPLE>

MAIN Char : 10 alchemy, 10 cooking, 10 enchanting, 10 blacksmithing 10 weaponsmithing
ALT Chat : lvl 25 puts 10 points into cooking finally and learned rank 2 recipes. Now this alt can go to the cooking station and see what it can cook, that the main has learned and taught to the alt.

Because, like you guys said yourselves. immersion.
So the MAIN, TAUGHT the alt the recipes just like the main char, got the achievements to unlock dyes, costumes, mounts, etc but forgot to teach the alt how to make banana pudding or what a "TA" Rune does or the Properties of a Corn Flower?

Come on, are we really arguing to keep this oversight in game?
You want to n ot know that recipe then don't put 10 points into your alt, click the recipe and relearn it.
If you put 10 points into cooking on that alt, that recipe is there to use.

Easy peasy.

Preferring to play characters as individuals, each starting a new and fully exploring and unlocking the game, is 100% a playstyle, and a common one in MMORPGS... which ESO is. Not everyone plays that way, but many people do. Often people will do things like make each alt earn its own gold, or earn its own gear, and what they learn or where they explore (or don't explore) is carefully chosen. Each and every time ZOS makes it so what's true for one character is true for all, without any choice, erodes that playstyle. It's also kind of funny that you are arguing with me on this when I was trying to help support your point.

I do think there is a difference in the game world between having shared STUFF (an unlocked collectible or option in the game interface) vs. shared KNOWLEDGE (which is character progress). Because alts do not generally have shared knowledge. Even with the overhaul to achievements to introduce AwA, we lost historical earned by data and dates, and the opportunity to re-earn achievements which helped track character progress, but it didn't auto-level characters based on achievements gained, or anything like that. They can use a dye that's available, but if they want a skill line they have to unlock it again, or buy it in the Crown Store, and then they must re-level the abilities. And on top of that, although the abilities are available to be used, the related content is not automatically "known." (For example if you pay for the Mages Guild Skill Line, the lorebooks don't automatically disappear across the world.) The alts start without knowledge of wayshrines, and with the map reset and clouded to be re-explored. So there isn't a lot of precedent in the game today for a main-teaching-an-alt concept. What's much more prevalent is "characters have shared resources."

Which is exactly why I suggested that it could work for characters to be able to access a shared recipe library, but that automatically starting with unlocked runes and knowing ingredient attributes doesn't "jive" with the in-game world logic as it is today. I believe your idea about recipes potentially supports immersion because it may be confusing for people as to why, say, a style page is learned by account-wide but a motif is not. I don't, however, think it is immersion-breaking that alts don't learn knowledge from a previous character, because it's blatantly obvious that the alt starts over with no skills, at level 1, etc. If anything, it would be jarring -- I don't know any weapon or skill abilities but for some reason I start in the world knowing what Jora is? Without having even gotten one level in Enchanting? It makes no sense.

What did you think about my idea of a "send to alt" button, to avoid logging and re-logging? What do you think about account-wide motifs? What did you think about my comment that this could impact people who make their gold in game selling recipes?

Theist_VII

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Wow lol

He’s not wrong.

Having tasks arbitrarily long to exaggerate playtime does nothing but make the playerbase spiteful.

Look at the 5 unique styles of this last event and the impact that had on everyone. Every other thread is a complaint about them.

ZoeliTintanie

For me, my immersion is that my characters on the account are a family/tribe, so they interact, they talk, they learn, they share things and items, gear, they have a common house ingame or multiple houses, each one having their own style.

It seems silly to me as a mostly rp player, that my Templar never sat town to tell my Warden how to make Banana Pudding but told the warden about Ayelid helm styles.

Either way i'm done with this, I feel like i'm just bashing my head against a wall.

I'm just going to make another alt and use it as storage for cooking recipes so when I need one i can just log on the alt and swap the recipe over or something.

Seems like such a waste of time but atleast it saves bank space for 100+ green/blue recipes I find that I dont want to throw away cuz I might need it on an alt later and i've already learned it on a main and getting that recipe is basically a -1 inventory slot debuff.

My apologies for even requesting something like this in this game, it seems what appears to me as an oversight in account-wide features (green cooking recipes) is something people enjoy having to waste inventory space on 7 times (per alt-per class)

WolfStar07

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Also, if you don't want account wide stuff, due to reasons of 'per character' then each of those characters should have to re-earn all the achievements, costumes, motifs, mounts, pets, houses, etc.

Can't just argue against something but accept the same perks on something else.

I actually did earn those achievements on my alts, as well as various low value motifs. It wasn't a big deal. For the trial and dungeon achievements, I preferred earning them new on each character. It's a greater sense of accomplishment to be able to complete that same content on different characters at the level needed for those achievements.

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Guys

Cooking Recipes for food & drinks - crafting recipes for furniture
Alchemy Potion - herbs knowledge - crafting recipes for furniture
enchanting knowledge of the runes, crafting recipes for furniture

none are researchable (so not loosing out on "research scroll sales")
None are Motifs


What, is, the, problem?

Tandor wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Some of ya'll are just trollin now to get the thread closed.

None of you that want to "not have alchemy, cooking, enchanting" unlocked after you learn a recipe, have to have them unlocked, don't click the checkbox.

Ok?

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You're right, those crafts aren't researchable. To that, I ask the same question- what is the problem? What is so problematic about just learning all the recipes on all your characters? What is so problematic about learning all the alchemy traits and crafting potions/poisons on all your characters? What is so problematic about learning all the enchanting runes and crafting glyphs on all your characters? The final 2 can literally be done in minutes, and it's not a bother to eat every recipe you pick up. It sounds like you came on here expecting everyone to applaud an idea you think is brilliant, and when some pointed out criticisms of it (or even perceived criticisms), you got defensive.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Everyone against AWA is going to be in for a rude awakening when they realize Scribing unlocks are character bound and I’m here for it. 😂

Skills are technically character bound, so I wouldn't have expected scribing to work any differently.

ZoeliTintanie

WolfStar07 wrote: »

It sounds like you came on here expecting everyone to applaud an idea you think is brilliant, and when some pointed out criticisms of it (or even perceived criticisms), you got defensive.

.

that explains the responses to this entire thread. thank you for thinking that that's where I was coming from. lesson learned.