The ONE reason why ESO will get average reviews...

pinkempyreal

I'm tired of having to wait for enemy spawns only to have someone (or multiple someones) come and take most of the hits. It's not fun. I have these abilities that I want to streamline together and formulate my best strategies. How can I when enemies die after one hit from my character because everyone around me is attacking it too?
I remember one time where I got to Deathclaw and not a single other player was around. I took a second to decide on an approach and it took me a good 2 to 3 minutes to finally drop the beast. I felt accomplished and it was glorious. Plus it gave me something to brag to my group about when we joined back up.
I get that many players enjoy things the way they are. For the most part I do too but there are some points I yearn for more opportunities to fight enemies and bosses on my own without having everyone interfere. At the very least I'd like to be able to go through a dungeon without finding every enemy already slain.

TVoid_ESO

How about teaming up with other players that are also doing the quest. Rather than trying to play the game like a SPRPG. Its is an MMORPG learn to group up and play with other ppl or go play Skyrim till the rush is over. All this QQ is meh.

Dev's ignore these idiot haters. Gr8 game keep it coming

Gohlar

pinkempyreal wrote: »

I'm tired of having to wait for enemy spawns only to have someone (or multiple someones) come and take most of the hits. It's not fun. I have these abilities that I want to streamline together and formulate my best strategies. How can I when enemies die after one hit from my character because everyone around me is attacking it too?
I remember one time where I got to Deathclaw and not a single other player was around. I took a second to decide on an approach and it took me a good 2 to 3 minutes to finally drop the beast. I felt accomplished and it was glorious. Plus it gave me something to brag to my group about when we joined back up.
I get that many players enjoy things the way they are. For the most part I do too but there are some points I yearn for more opportunities to fight enemies and bosses on my own without having everyone interfere. At the very least I'd like to be able to go through a dungeon without finding every enemy already slain.

Yeah there are a lot of fundamental, structural problems with the way the game is put together. They got a lot of the hard stuff right and got a lot of easy stuff wrong. It's bizarre but if they can polish things it could be amazing. Pretty big if though.

The game's anti group stance (removal of exp from group activities like dungeons) in PvE seriously worries me though.

KingRebz

as long as they listen to the community and add what we request since we are paying monthly fees..buying this game would be a WIN WIN.

jambam817_ESO

That doesn't bother me at all.

Phasing... Phasing will be the death of this game for social people (those of us that like to help low level friends with quests, or others who simply need to catch up)
Walking around invisible next to your pal is stupid, especially in the open world. Need help killing those quest mobs you just spawned?! too bad, we're in different "phases".
That kills me, other people running the same quest as me does not.

Yankee

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

How in the HELL are you supposed to play a stealth character PLEASE someone explain?? You mean to tell me I need to "sneak" and kill mobs while about five other yokels rush in and kill steal/mob camp...

I do not recall many MMO's that were not overcrowded when they launched. That will abate in a little while. I am already starting to see population reduction in the level 20+ zones.

If your stealth reference above is the Nightblade, then I suggest slotting Teleport Strike (Assasination Tree) as soon as you can. You will leap to the mob from a long range. Makes getting that needed hit on quest mobs easy when other players are around.

Also take a deep breath please, it is only a game.

Left_Hand

I think ESO has enough phasing and instancing as it is, so no... i don't think everything should be instanced, this is an mmo after all and the less instancing the better.

Ysne58

It sounds to me like a solution might be to allow grouping in the instances and eliminate the phasing. That would certainly help those who can't handle harvesters and large groups (like me).

Sedlina

Sorry but if you really think that a serious plattform would give you a review based on a launch experience when it is obvious that thousands of people swarm into the zones. Well then you live in a funny world dear sir.

ESO's launch was one of the most stable MMO launches I've ever experienced. The login server didn't collapse. The game servers didn't collapse. I didn't experience any lag spikes so far. There are no excessive wait times to log in.
If anything than the launch is a fairly impressive one.

This obviously doesn't mean that it's perfect. Especially since the phasing brought up a couple of issues with stuck quest npcs. Though none of them was game breaking for me so far. A simple relog and everything worked out fine for me again

drakuel1ub17_ESO

I agree OP.. Many will not and claim it is a "mmo" argument that makes no sense at all.. The best games of today and future will use intelligent instancing/phasing to create very immersive and challenging worlds in the MMO space..

Even here they use it very well for PVP, it is a instance of 2000 or so locked in players to engage in a realm to realm battle.. It works well and better than allowing the whole world to enter that space, that would just bring the servers to it's knees and also cause all kinds of unrealistic issues in the design.

They failed to have it work for PVE however and it is hurting this game tremendously from a immersion perspective and more importantly from a group perspective.. They are a lot of players that like to group up to take on quests together feeling not good about this design.

Instancing does not mean it is for "one" person period. Good instancing means it has intelligence to it, so that if I choose to go in solo and role-play my avatar to accomplish the goal in front me I can and feel it's impact and skills throughout the story, however if I pick up a friend or a random traveler in the open world terrain and decide to take on something together then the instance supports that entry for us both or 3 or 10.

The game has Open world, Open cities, Open dungeons and soon to be adventure zones, large group PVP instances.. To say you want instancing/phasing to be better is in no way impacting the MMO feel.

I think the way it is now is far worse then the alternative if done properly.

Orizuru

Apparently developers can't win on this issue.

If they design instanced quests they get flayed for breaking immersion. If they don't design instanced quests they get flayed for not be solo-friendly.

Honestly though, I LOVE the lack of instanced quests. Final Fantasy 14 ARR burned me out on instances big time.

The problem OP is describing is one that I think will tone down a LOT in a few months. Right now most all of the players are the same level and are in the same zones. In a few months when players levels are more evenly distributed and players are more spread out in the world then I think the over-crowded feeling will diminish a lot.

In the grand scheme of things though, an abundance on players in the same zone is a good thing for an MMO. The people who are complaining about this are the solo/single-player crowd who will probably never be satisfied with the MMO aspects of this game.

EDIT: And if you really want to know what is going to hurt this game the most in reviews... In my opinion its the lack of a central auction house or grand scale player-based economy. I'm still on the fence with this feature and I'm willing to give the Guild Store pocket economies a chance because I can see how well they can be insulated from inflation and the influx of large quantities of gold to the game, but I see some negatives in it as well such as availability of goods being limited by a players access to guilds.

corrup7ed

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

The lack of instanced quests... it makes no sense and it's insulting...

Bethesda wanted to merge single-player RPG mechanics with an MMO world - that's all fine and dandy but it doesn't work at all due to the fact they refuse to instance the quests...

Imagine this... we have ALL been through this so don't act like I'm crazy here.

In Daggerfall there is this great quest line to save the King from assassination... you talk to various NPCs, build some lore, and then you're off to kill or find the assassins... EVERY OPPORTUNITY FOR COMBAT IS RUINED by about 1,000 other players doing the same quest, killing the same mobs... it's a joke. There is no immersion, and it makes the game feel petty and shallow.

How in the HELL are you supposed to play a stealth character PLEASE someone explain?? You mean to tell me I need to "sneak" and kill mobs while about five other yokels rush in and kill steal/mob camp...

Give me a break.

Instance phases is not uncommon in MMOS... VERY disappointed Bethesda doesn't understand how to use it.

I understand where you are coming from. There have been a couple of times where I am trying to kill someone/something and another player comes in, but that was the same way in WoW (forgive me, haven't played it in a while). I do not fully agree with you though.

I actually like the fact that everyone is on and is able to help out with a quests at the drop of a hat. Yes, the side where they steal your objective sucks. However, I am a sorcerer and I can tell you I am greatful for the Templars/stronger chars that come in and help me take someone down.

I feel that the community is nice enough to where you can ask for help, not really have to group up with them, and still get the objective as long as you were hitting the target. It may not be THE BEST system, however overall I believe it is better.

corrup7ed

loops73 wrote: »

I am kind of disappointed in this game, it is just like WoW and really gives me no reason to sub.

Um, I don't think this game is at all like WoW... There is clearly a difference. I played through the Beta, thought it was great and dealt with the bugs thinking they were going to be fixed. Come this pre-release, I was saying the same thing. I am not that impressed.... then I find myself sinking hours and hours into it... loving it... and can barely get away from it lol.

Sorry, but the mechanics of WoW vs. ESO are way different. I am happy to be playing ESO rather than going back to WoW.

KerinKor

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

The ONE reason why ESO will get average reviews...

...does not exist.

One person's 'terrible idea' is another's 'best feature', your idea of what's terrible is simply one of them.

In any case, who in their right mind takes any notice of reviews posted on the internet by 'journalists' in whose pocket you have no idea where they live: and as history shows, Metacritic being 'crowd-sourced' is equally worthless.

So I don't care what you think about the game when it comes to my decision to play it or not, so post your 'average' review for all I care.

powderdtoastman

I love this game, the fact I can choose how to spend my time and totally get lost doing just that, every game will have its quirks and issues to begin but I gotta say, I have total faith that ZEN will get it smoothed out and will keep on new issues.

P.S
I also love the fact that this game does not hold your hand like so many MMO's before it, it makes you think and put effort into what you do and in all cases the feeling is all that more rewarding in the end.

Just my 2 cents....

Left_Hand

KerinKor wrote: »

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

The ONE reason why ESO will get average reviews...

...does not exist.

One person's 'terrible idea' is another's 'best feature', your idea of what's terrible is simply one of them.

In any case, who in their right mind takes any notice of reviews posted on the internet by 'journalists' in whose pocket you have no idea where they live: and as history shows, Metacritic being 'crowd-sourced' is equally worthless.

So I don't care what you think about the game when it comes to my decision to play it or not, so post your 'average' review for all I care.

Agreed, i only take my own experiences into account when buying and not any online or magazine reviews but less than credible "journalists". I played the beta and enjoyed it, so i bought it, the best thing Zenimax can do is also release a free trial, that would also allow a lot of people to try before they buy.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Who cares about reviews? Im guessing since you don't like the game you want it to fail so others hate it like you?

Kingslayer

All i will say is MMO end of discussion.

Daverios

"In Daggerfall there is this great quest line to save the King from assassination... you talk to various NPCs, build some lore, and then you're off to kill or find the assassins... EVERY OPPORTUNITY FOR COMBAT IS RUINED by about 1,000 other players doing the same quest, killing the same mobs... it's a joke. There is no immersion, and it makes the game feel petty and shallow."

These are the exact same feelings I have. So far not at all impressed with this Mega server BS. Traditional servers were 1000 times better, so what if they had to merge some every once in awhile it was still a far superior gaming immersion, anyone that argues with this should have their head examined.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Daverios wrote: »

"In Daggerfall there is this great quest line to save the King from assassination... you talk to various NPCs, build some lore, and then you're off to kill or find the assassins... EVERY OPPORTUNITY FOR COMBAT IS RUINED by about 1,000 other players doing the same quest, killing the same mobs... it's a joke. There is no immersion, and it makes the game feel petty and shallow."

These are the exact same feelings I have. So far not at all impressed with this Mega server BS. Traditional servers were 1000 times better, so what if they had to merge some every once in awhile it was still a far superior gaming immersion, anyone that argues with this should have their head examined.

Perhaps (and not being snarky here) you should wait a week for the crowds to die down in the beginning area?

Lamprey

Salacious wrote: »

You do relaizse this is an MMO right? and MMO mean Multi Massivly - as in MULTIPLE PEOPLE as in MORE THEN ONE. if you want instanced quests go play oblvion.

You do realize that a fundamental MMO game mechanic, like grouping, is, well, fundamentally broken for questing because of how they have designed the game, right?

drwoody44b14_ESO

Lord_Anubis wrote: »

This is a huge issue for me too. And i am tired of seeing "THIS IS A MMO" as the reason. Have you played Guild Wars 2? Thats a MMO you see & work with people all over BUTTTTTT..The major quests, dungeons & all are made just for you solo or you & the group you bring & so on to make the game feel like your actually doing something.

Perhaps thats one of the reasons why most of us here are not playing that game anymore?

Logic hurts, I know.

FYI, they just merged their servers because the game was feeling to "empty"

Korah_Eaglecry

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Anubis wrote: »

This is a huge issue for me too. And i am tired of seeing "THIS IS A MMO" as the reason. Have you played Guild Wars 2? Thats a MMO you see & work with people all over BUTTTTTT..The major quests, dungeons & all are made just for you solo or you & the group you bring & so on to make the game feel like your actually doing something.

Perhaps thats one of the reasons why most of us here are not playing that game anymore?

Logic hurts, I know.

FYI, they just merged their servers because the game was feeling to "empty"

People will always leave out the most obvious truths that contradict their own opinions.

Game hasnt even launched. Large numbers of people are flooding the starter areas and things will eventually settle down. But those looking for more Single Player aspects wont ignore a chance to jump on opportunity to demand changes for their benefit.

Thete

Daverios wrote: »

These are the exact same feelings I have. So far not at all impressed with this Mega server BS. Traditional servers were 1000 times better,

That issue is nothing to do with megaservers. That is the result of lots of players wanting to do the same thing at the same time. Megaserver technology is the ability (maybe not working great just yet) to always be able to group with your friends. Not an option with traditional servers.

gstewart0413b14_ESO

I disagree. Read some of the threads about the Fighters' guild and Mages' Guild quests which are instanced (forced, you cannot bring a group with you). Most are complaining about those quests being instanced. So, there are players who prefer public quests.

Personally, I do like the public quests so long as the number of other players is not too large (in beta it was horrible). They've done a nice balance from what it was. It does mean that you most likely will not get the killing blow on the boss but that does not bother me so long as the quest completes.

Kiash

I respect your opinion OP, but couldn't disagree more. This is the kind of questing I want in a game. Not the instanced quest hub garbage that has become the MMO norm in recent years for people who are too lazy to not be spoon fed levels.

Ohioastro

hamon wrote: »

i think theres a balance and LOTRO got it about right. lots of instanced solo quests where it was story driven, IE helping the felllowship progress on its story, but also had enough public stuff that was in open gameplay. like helping a village free itself from orcs or whatever.... i kinda think the balance is a little off in ESO. that being said i'm having a blast right now

I abandoned LOTRO because they revamped it to be insultingly easy. As in, people complained if they couldn't auto-attack their way to victory, solo, on the first attempt easy. I really, really hope that ESO doesn't go down that particular path.

I think that the main draw to this game is an engaging and well-scripted story line with complete voice acting. You can add in a ton of written material to browse and a solid atmosphere. People who click through the quest dialogues and try to grind mobs will hate it, because this turns the game into a series of mechanical tasks.

Play the game for what it is, rather than trying to make it into some other game, and you'll be OK.

Some tips on the instances: they are less crowded at off hours. You can find quests "off the beaten path" that are fun and have fewer people in them; do those at prime time.

Vikova

This isn't a singleplayer game. If I didn't see other players running around and doing the same stuff, it wouldn't feel like an MMO. Overly instanced MMOs feel like dead MMOs when you are questing. It ruins it for me. If I wanted things instanced and purely solo, I wouldn't be playing an MMO.

Also, you are a hero. Just like everyone else. Give me a break with this immersion crap. The only way immersion works is with a huge suspension of disbelief, because you are a hero in a world of mostly peasants...except for the thousands of other overpowered heroes. MMOs by definition cannot have the immersion of singleplayer games. You know that going in.

Ohioastro

Lamprey wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

You do relaizse this is an MMO right? and MMO mean Multi Massivly - as in MULTIPLE PEOPLE as in MORE THEN ONE. if you want instanced quests go play oblvion.

You do realize that a fundamental MMO game mechanic, like grouping, is, well, fundamentally broken for questing because of how they have designed the game, right?

What I see instead is people coming into ESO and trying to force styles from other games onto this one.

There are places in this game where solo players will have trouble, and spontaneously groups or alliances form. This occurs naturally and, for me, works extremely well. I find it wonderful to have helpful people around and I try to pitch in when I see someone else having a hard time, This is "social" too. It doesn't have to be formal groups, formal roles, and all of the other overhead that people have gotten used to in MMOs.

Now if there is too large of a reward, e.g. lots of drops, people crowd into dungeons and fall into the MMO disease of repeating the path to least resistance thousands of times for a perceived tiny edge. They therefore had to neuter the rewards, but I'd like to ask you to look in this thread and notice something.

You have people complaining about swarms of players in dungeons, and you have others complaining that rewards for grouping in dungeons have been neutered. Guess why the latter happened? Hint: It's the former problem.

If we go into instanced group mode there will be a chorus of complaints from single player advocates about "forced grouping" and "all of the good gear requires forced grouping" and blah blah. There is literally nothing that the devs could do that would cause no complaints. So they might as well stick with something that works for a lot of people, and I like what I see so far.

Gohlar

It will get good reviews because mmos always get good reviews for some reason.

Swtor. Yeah.

Kingslayer wrote: »

All i will say is MMO end of discussion.

And yet exp was removed from group content like 4 man dungeons. The game can't seem to get out of it's own way. Group play in ESO is bad. For an mmo, that's not good.