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The ONE reason why ESO will get average reviews...
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lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭I hate instancing with a passion, all it does is break people up, I play MMOs to play with other people, if that's not what you want, fine MMO's are not for you. There is nothing wrong with this, just go find a game that is what you want. But don't go trying to turn my game into a SPRPG.1 -
we have to learn from guild wars, their way to make instance is great./\:__:/\
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Mortelus✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Opinions are like... You know. Personally I think it'll get smeared for the utterly lacking Ui. Functionality in Ui isn't uncommon in MMOs either but they left theirs with virtually none, and cruddy visual cues that aren't clear at all to "conpensate".
I love the UI. I never listen to reviews because, well, they are just someone else's opinion. I will just try a game I like the sound of.
Much like this thread, it's all opinion, what you like/dislike is another persons dream.Who has time? But if we never take time how can we ever have time?3 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭killerintheline9 wrote: »we have to learn from guild wars, their way to make instance is great.
You mean the game that can't even cover it's overhead? I think not...
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It will smooth itself out. Its 4 days after launch, 98% of the players are still in the same areas. In a couple of months the traffic wont be so heavy. I play SWTOR and there almost everything is instanced, and I like this a whole lot more. I actually feel like im in an MMO.0 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭dispatcher505_ESO wrote: »It will smooth itself out. Its 4 days after launch, 98% of the players are still in the same areas. In a couple of months the traffic wont be so heavy. I play SWTOR and there almost everything is instanced, and I like this a whole lot more. I actually feel like im in an MMO.
I also play SWTOR and while it is a good game, it's pretty much just a SPRPG with multiplayer elements. I want to play an MMO.0 -
A247✭✭I currently am having a hard time becoming immersed in this game with the extreme amount of players crowded everywhere. Everyone's piled at the bank, crafting areas, public dungeons, etc. I like to see and play with lots of players but currently it feels like there are too many to enjoy the game for its exploration and immersion. Seeing so many players everywhere while questing makes me feel rushed and unimportant in the game. While trying to explore a public dungeon there are no mobs to kill and too many players crowded at the end to kill the boss. This ruins my enjoyment of public dungeons. I hope eventually players will either spread out over time so this will be less of an issue or the phases/instances will allow less players at a time. LOTRO has a layers where only so many players are allowed in a zone at a time before a new layer is created. In my opinion, it feels like the zones in ESO are too crowded.1 -
Mortuum✭✭✭✭Sockmunkey wrote: »Not everything from SPRPG can be applied in MMO and people seems to miss that point. You simply expecting, like many others, Skyrim/Oblivion with friends just please not too many. They had to make compromises, thats why we dont have arrows on corpses, no archery with 1shoot kill etc etc. Its called balance, and had to be done to allow game be an MMO.
Thats not really a fair argument. I could get behind this line of thought if the quests were designed to be team oriented. But they arn't.
YOU, are the vestige. YOU, are often sent into places to be the soul hero. YOU are the one that needs to gather the seals to open the door. The very nature of the quests are designed with a lone heroic feel to them.
Had the quests, in both action and story, been designed to explain the extra help. Less people would, most likely, be upset with the lack of instances. As is it, it feels completely miss-mactched. Instead of being THE VESTIGE, or one of many stalwart heroes. You are reduced to one of many vestiges. And that is a real shame.
Yes, fine, but every game puts you, player, and your character in a shoos of a hero. SWTOR makes you one and only agent, jedi or whatever, in LOTRO you are the one assisting Frodo and fellowship in their efforts, etc etc etc. That is the way how MMOs are designed.
Would you agree to play smaller role in MMO, and let someone else on your server be a real hero? I doubt that. Thats how games are designed, and even if it is against logic(having 10000000 ''one and only totally unique'' agents/world savers etc etc), that is it, because everyone of us want to be that hero, that agent, that special someone.
In Tera you start off as a mere soldier, so no not every game makes you the one and only superhero destined to save the world.
Yes, start, and then what? You are not just a soldier after few quests/levels, you helping queen, or what main NPC name was (sorry cant remember), that is not something what mere soldier do. If we follow your logic, you will get MMO regular soldier, not even a knight, simulator...Get up, do your training, clean weapon, done, log off, because you are just soldier, and cant do anything else.
My point is, no matter how you start, you will be always, in every game, a main character, main hero, because that is what people want.
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Mortuum✭✭✭✭
Dont think im missing the point. What you asking for is heavily instanced game, where you cannot see or interact with others. That is not nature of MMOs. All im trying to say is, that Zeni had to find balance between both groups of players and they did well.Sockmunkey wrote: »Sockmunkey wrote: »Not everything from SPRPG can be applied in MMO and people seems to miss that point. You simply expecting, like many others, Skyrim/Oblivion with friends just please not too many. They had to make compromises, thats why we dont have arrows on corpses, no archery with 1shoot kill etc etc. Its called balance, and had to be done to allow game be an MMO.
Thats not really a fair argument. I could get behind this line of thought if the quests were designed to be team oriented. But they arn't.
YOU, are the vestige. YOU, are often sent into places to be the soul hero. YOU are the one that needs to gather the seals to open the door. The very nature of the quests are designed with a lone heroic feel to them.
Had the quests, in both action and story, been designed to explain the extra help. Less people would, most likely, be upset with the lack of instances. As is it, it feels completely miss-mactched. Instead of being THE VESTIGE, or one of many stalwart heroes. You are reduced to one of many vestiges. And that is a real shame.
Yes, fine, but every game puts you, player, and your character in a shoos of a hero. SWTOR makes you one and only agent, jedi or whatever, in LOTRO you are the one assisting Frodo and fellowship in their efforts, etc etc etc. That is the way how MMOs are designed.
Would you agree to play smaller role in MMO, and let someone else on your server be a real hero? I doubt that. Thats how games are designed, and even if it is against logic(having 10000000 ''one and only totally unique'' agents/world savers etc etc), that is it, because everyone of us want to be that hero, that agent, that special someone.
Im not trying to insult anyone, but i think most of those posts and complains comes from people who are new to MMO genre in general. What we all see and agree is fact that before ESO we had several very successful games on market, played by millions of people. Part of this crowd never played MMO before (nothing wrong with it of course) so it is natural that they somehow are expecting same or similar experience to what they had earlier.
All i have tried to say was, that this is not possible, those compromises between SPRPG and MMO had to be made, to even start thinking about creating this game.
Technical issues and how servers works are different story, but it plays it role as well. Also, you have to see other point of view:why punish long time MMO players with endless instancing etc etc. Im playing with my friend, as i always did, and it will be very annoying for us to disband/reinvite to group each time we enter cave/house or any location.
Like with everything, there are 2 sides of coin, and i think balance Zeni found is fine, and should make both group of players happy.
You seem to be missing the point. Its the game itself that is making it feel all disjointed. When I have to go through all these hoops to unlock a sealed tomb, only to find it filled with people and already looted. That is a problem. When the game tells me I'm entering a spooky place no one has been to before. My disappointment at finding it empty, looted, and ransacked. Is a creation of the game itself. When the game gives me disguises, encouraging me to slowly sneak around and use wit and stealth. Its hard not to feel like it was a complete wasted opportunity when there is no point in doing it, because its faster to just follow the parade of other players.
Those are options the game is putting forth and then wasting. Its the game itself that is telling players they are the lone hero, then taking it away.
Its needs to be one way or the other. Either allow people to be the solo hero that the very quests are indicating. Or change the quests to explain why the tomb is swarmed with adventurers.
As said, you also have to look at all that from MMO crowd point of view. We love playing with others, we dont mind others around, sure it breaks immersion, for me as well, but that is the price we pay for having ESO, not ES6.
MMOs are build around community, and alienating players from each other will result in 2 millions(or whatever number it will be) SPRPGs having only 1 in common-server...
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well its just one game. but i would like , eso could make some kind of limit of players to guest.. or only group can enter to same quest, that's it. anyways me? this hardcore fan keeps playing it over and over again, matter of what hapends.lordspyder wrote: »killerintheline9 wrote: »we have to learn from guild wars, their way to make instance is great.
You mean the game that can't even cover it's overhead? I think not...
my opinion is that eso team has made really great work and hard working developing this game... its always the case that something is "wrong" with new mmo games when launched, then they fix when we tell what we want.. its impossible to know everything without lots of ppl and lots of time of testing .
you know remember guys to report bugs with "/bug" with out quotes.
/\:__:/\
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Yasha✭✭✭✭Sockmunkey wrote: »
Thats not really a fair argument. I could get behind this line of thought if the quests were designed to be team oriented. But they arn't.
YOU, are the vestige. YOU, are often sent into places to be the soul hero. YOU are the one that needs to gather the seals to open the door. The very nature of the quests are designed with a lone heroic feel to them.
Had the quests, in both action and story, been designed to explain the extra help. Less people would, most likely, be upset with the lack of instances. As is it, it feels completely miss-mactched. Instead of being THE VESTIGE, or one of many stalwart heroes. You are reduced to one of many vestiges. And that is a real shame.
Yes, fine, but every game puts you, player, and your character in a shoos of a hero. SWTOR makes you one and only agent, jedi or whatever, in LOTRO you are the one assisting Frodo and fellowship in their efforts, etc etc etc. That is the way how MMOs are designed.
Would you agree to play smaller role in MMO, and let someone else on your server be a real hero? I doubt that. Thats how games are designed, and even if it is against logic(having 10000000 ''one and only totally unique'' agents/world savers etc etc), that is it, because everyone of us want to be that hero, that agent, that special someone.
In Tera you start off as a mere soldier, so no not every game makes you the one and only superhero destined to save the world.
Yes, start, and then what? You are not just a soldier after few quests/levels, you helping queen, or what main NPC name was (sorry cant remember), that is not something what mere soldier do. If we follow your logic, you will get MMO regular soldier, not even a knight, simulator...Get up, do your training, clean weapon, done, log off, because you are just soldier, and cant do anything else.
My point is, no matter how you start, you will be always, in every game, a main character, main hero, because that is what people want.
You build up from a lowly soldier among many to a champion, but you are never the one special being as in ESO. That is the point that Sockmunkey is making.
Also I didn't present any argument about how a game should be set up, I just noted that you are incorrect to say that every mmo sets you up to be the one and only hero.
To give other examples, in DDO you are just an adventurer, if I recall correctly (been a long time) in Rift you are an ascended, special to be sure, but one of many ascended, in NWO you are not the "one and only saviour".
There is a lot of space between your "simulator" and being the one and only special being that can save the universe.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I currently am having a hard time becoming immersed in this game with the extreme amount of players crowded everywhere. Everyone's piled at the bank, crafting areas, public dungeons, etc. I like to see and play with lots of players but currently it feels like there are too many to enjoy the game for its exploration and immersion. Seeing so many players everywhere while questing makes me feel rushed and unimportant in the game. While trying to explore a public dungeon there are no mobs to kill and too many players crowded at the end to kill the boss. This ruins my enjoyment of public dungeons. I hope eventually players will either spread out over time so this will be less of an issue or the phases/instances will allow less players at a time. LOTRO has a layers where only so many players are allowed in a zone at a time before a new layer is created. In my opinion, it feels like the zones in ESO are too crowded.
The MMO is actually much closer to what the Elder Scrolls Universe would be like. Youre not going to go running off alone into dangerous areas by yourself. Unlike the Outrageously 'Heroic' characters you may have played in SP...To make you feel even more special. Most of the heroes youve heard about in those games were simply exaggerated and puffed up. As the stories were passed down from generation to generation...The lesser known companions of those heroes and facts of the story were lost. Look at the story of the Akavarii Invasion....According to all the lore available up to this point made it sound as if that war took place over days or a few short weeks. But the more you talk to NPCs in this game the more you realize that the War had to have taken months if not a couple years to win.
As for the large number of people running about. Well you have to take into consideration that unlike an SP game. An MMO is better suited to support a more likely number of people. When you go to cities or areas where theres money to be made. There will be people..Lots of them. And with a war going on. Theres even more money to be made and even more of the peasants and poor folk will come out of the slums and farmland to sign up to serve their Jarls and Kings.
But if youre going to let a few days of early access influence your perception of the average population. Then Im afraid youre in for a shock at the end of this month when those who will not sub leave and the average person goes back to their real lives.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
I haven't done much of the story yet, but so far all of the main story quests, where you are the vestige, have been instanced.
Main Story quests are instanced as far as I can tell.
The problem ist with the normal solo quests. Instead of making a clever compromise between instancing and open world, so as to keep the MMO flair but not totally ruin the quests plot, its just all open world.
That means dungeons specifically constructed for a quest and its plot are overrun by players and the live expectancy of a mob is about 0.5 seconds.
The story lines of solo quests do not take into account other players that are doing the same thing, so it becomes awkward pretty quick if you actually do care about it and don´t skip through all the dialogue.
Yep randomly teaming with strangers is quite cool. Dungeons overrun by players are not.
You sneakily breaking into a mansion to search for clues, only to find the place crowded by people that don´t belong (in a story line sense) is not.
Traveling into the past and reliving the memories of a soldier, only to find a dozen other guys interacting in the world, while impersonating the same soldier is not (hell, his wife and close friends are confronted with a dozen copies of that same guy).
A clever mix between instanced indoor and open world outdoor would suffice in most cases to not blatantly break the 4th wall.
The whole reliving the memories of an other should have been instanced as a whole.
I hope Zenimax changes this soon.
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Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sigh.. know all those "complaints" people are saying about not being able to see the person in their group? Know how people are complaining about "phasing"? Its because they are in a different "instance" than you are. They made different choices, They have not kicked the Covenant Army out of Davon's Watch, while you have. They said to capture the ghosts, you said to make it rain. The instances that you are complaining about not being there ARE there. A lot of people seem to be ignorant of that fact.Edited by Darlgon on April 3, 2014 12:17AMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.0 -
Mortuum✭✭✭✭Sockmunkey wrote: »
Thats not really a fair argument. I could get behind this line of thought if the quests were designed to be team oriented. But they arn't.
YOU, are the vestige. YOU, are often sent into places to be the soul hero. YOU are the one that needs to gather the seals to open the door. The very nature of the quests are designed with a lone heroic feel to them.
Had the quests, in both action and story, been designed to explain the extra help. Less people would, most likely, be upset with the lack of instances. As is it, it feels completely miss-mactched. Instead of being THE VESTIGE, or one of many stalwart heroes. You are reduced to one of many vestiges. And that is a real shame.
Yes, fine, but every game puts you, player, and your character in a shoos of a hero. SWTOR makes you one and only agent, jedi or whatever, in LOTRO you are the one assisting Frodo and fellowship in their efforts, etc etc etc. That is the way how MMOs are designed.
Would you agree to play smaller role in MMO, and let someone else on your server be a real hero? I doubt that. Thats how games are designed, and even if it is against logic(having 10000000 ''one and only totally unique'' agents/world savers etc etc), that is it, because everyone of us want to be that hero, that agent, that special someone.
In Tera you start off as a mere soldier, so no not every game makes you the one and only superhero destined to save the world.
Yes, start, and then what? You are not just a soldier after few quests/levels, you helping queen, or what main NPC name was (sorry cant remember), that is not something what mere soldier do. If we follow your logic, you will get MMO regular soldier, not even a knight, simulator...Get up, do your training, clean weapon, done, log off, because you are just soldier, and cant do anything else.
My point is, no matter how you start, you will be always, in every game, a main character, main hero, because that is what people want.
You build up from a lowly soldier among many to a champion, but you are never the one special being as in ESO. That is the point that Sockmunkey is making.
Also I didn't present any argument about how a game should be set up, I just noted that you are incorrect to say that every mmo sets you up to be the one and only hero.
To give other examples, in DDO you are just an adventurer, if I recall correctly (been a long time) in Rift you are an ascended, special to be sure, but one of many ascended, in NWO you are not the "one and only saviour".
There is a lot of space between your "simulator" and being the one and only special being that can save the universe.
Sadly you are wrong about RIFT, if you remember starting instance and first rift you see , it is clearly stated that yes you are one of many, but you are the one to stop Regulos. Also if you completed Saga Of Death/whatever name for Guardians, Asha Cathari/guardian NPC both said many times how special are you and why you have been brought back to life. Faceless Man also.
And DDO is different game, with different setting, lore and universe, but you are right about this one, my bad, but i never played it so missed it because of that.
Anyway, those are just opinions, everyone has its own, glad we can talk in civil and normal way about it.
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SuperScrubby✭✭✭The UI is lacking for a better word. I don't think that the non instanced quests are a big deal since it actually feels like an open world MMO. I personally love it, since it means I don't have to work as hard to kill stuff that I'm ultimately doing in order to turn in and get exp. The immersion is in the actual dialogue and the storyline, not some of these random quests where you kill X and pick up Y.
The only thing I will say is that for launch purposes they do need to increase the respawn timer on quest mobs or items since there's going to be more people going through it than lets say 4 years from now.
But aside from that I wouldn't say that this issue is the reason why this game will get mediocre reviews, and personally I don't think it will get mediocre reviews. I'm thinking more along the lines of 4/5 stars or something close to like a 75/100 if you want to look at it that way.1 -
Waylon✭I don't think this game will get a average ratings. But I too would like to have more opportunities to accomplish quests with just my friends and family (like a group instance quests). As I recall during development there were we two competing thoughts; one side argued to be more "group" oriented with instances and the other to be more "World of Warcraft" oriented. The WOW folks won, so unfortunately when a new MMO comes out designed like this and everyone starts at the same time as you will get this result. Groups of people all trying to complete to the same quest as you. Resulting the problems we have encountered, requiring increase spawn rate and such. It does ruin the emersion effect the herd effect. But that is nature of it unfortunately.Edited by Waylon on April 3, 2014 1:06AM0
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Lord_AnubisSoul ShrivenThis is a huge issue for me too. And i am tired of seeing "THIS IS A MMO" as the reason. Have you played Guild Wars 2? Thats a MMO you see & work with people all over BUTTTTTT..The major quests, dungeons & all are made just for you solo or you & the group you bring & so on to make the game feel like your actually doing something.
There has been so many quests where I'm on my way to kill the boss or a mob at the end when i get to the final room & can't even get a hit in because 20 other people just killed it...fail.
Also think about this. We are the players of pre orders & imperial editions. What do you think this issue is going to be like when the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of other players join us come 4.4.14?? I don't think you will be able to walk 50 steps without seeing 100 people & everyone will be finishing your quests / dungeons / bosses for you.
Then even the people who says its a MMO will realize they need to make it like Guild Wars 2 as far as instancing importnant things. I love seeing lots of people & working with them & such but NOT when I'm in a dungeon & there are 100 other people doing what i was supposed to do & did not get time to even try to do because they already did it.
Let me bring my own group & friends into my own major quests / dungeons & work with the world on small quests & map areas.1 -
Thete✭✭✭I never listen to reviews because, well, they are just someone else's opinion. I will just try a game I like the sound of.
Well, they are like news articles. Some are objective and distinguish between fact and opinion whilst others just present opinion as if it were fact. Game reviews can be useful in terms of the quality of the gaming experience (eg does it run smoothly? is the learning curve suitable? what is there available at end game?).MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest1 -
mutharex✭✭✭✭✭I never listen to reviews because, well, they are just someone else's opinion. I will just try a game I like the sound of.
Well, they are like news articles. Some are objective and distinguish between fact and opinion whilst others just present opinion as if it were fact. Game reviews can be useful in terms of the quality of the gaming experience (eg does it run smoothly? is the learning curve suitable? what is there available at end game?).
But they are still opinions and that means you are seeing things filtered through his eyes. They are only useful if you know more or less the reviewers tastes and credibility0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't like instanced dungeons. Therefore i loved SWG and Vanguard. I am playing an mmo and i want other people to ented the dungeon as well. Yes, it is packed now as the game has just openened it's flood gates and almost everyone is around same level. Wait a bit and the area's will clear out (not 4th of April because the main flood gates will open then.)٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
Blackhorne✭✭✭✭Lord_Anubis wrote: »Also think about this. We are the players of pre orders & imperial editions. What do you think this issue is going to be like when the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of other players join us come 4.4.14??
Well, if the technology works as designed, it'll be... no different at all.
http://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server
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kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭So far, I've found that the random and spontaneous teaming up with strangers to complete quest objectives to be surprising fun.
@Johnny_NO_skillz, you have a really good point. I would also like to see more instanced quests like Cheesemongers Hollow. But @Qutayba touched on someting that is special about this game. I've met some really nice people because of these pickup groups.0 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭everyone needs to realize this is launch, when people have moved on from starter areas and go their different paths in the world then the clutter of other players will thin out and you can then enjoy your immersion level, then perhaps start griping that there is no one doing the same quests that you are on and you need help. lolMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.0 -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instanced quests took the M out of MMO. No thanks. This was one of the biggest complaints about SWTOR "I FELT LIKE I WAS PLAYING A SINGLE PLAYER GAME" this is YOUR opinion. and a LOOOOOOT of people disagree.1 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭Hell I hope you are right OP, the more dumb people we get the worse the game and the forums will be, as you are clearly prooving
I think we have this forum's "that guy".
Also, "prooving". Lol, couldn't resist. It's always funny when someone calls someone dumb on the internet and does something like this.Edited by Gohlar on April 3, 2014 1:02PM2 -
mutharex✭✭✭✭✭Hell I hope you are right OP, the more dumb people we get the worse the game and the forums will be, as you are clearly prooving
I think we have this forum's "that guy".
Also, "prooving". Lol, couldn't resist. It's always funny when someone calls someone dumb on the internet and does something like this.
Clinging to typos: the first sign of a sorry fall0 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭OP, welcome to MMOs.
House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire0 -
Yasha✭✭✭✭Sockmunkey wrote: »
Thats not really a fair argument. I could get behind this line of thought if the quests were designed to be team oriented. But they arn't.
YOU, are the vestige. YOU, are often sent into places to be the soul hero. YOU are the one that needs to gather the seals to open the door. The very nature of the quests are designed with a lone heroic feel to them.
Had the quests, in both action and story, been designed to explain the extra help. Less people would, most likely, be upset with the lack of instances. As is it, it feels completely miss-mactched. Instead of being THE VESTIGE, or one of many stalwart heroes. You are reduced to one of many vestiges. And that is a real shame.
Yes, fine, but every game puts you, player, and your character in a shoos of a hero. SWTOR makes you one and only agent, jedi or whatever, in LOTRO you are the one assisting Frodo and fellowship in their efforts, etc etc etc. That is the way how MMOs are designed.
Would you agree to play smaller role in MMO, and let someone else on your server be a real hero? I doubt that. Thats how games are designed, and even if it is against logic(having 10000000 ''one and only totally unique'' agents/world savers etc etc), that is it, because everyone of us want to be that hero, that agent, that special someone.
In Tera you start off as a mere soldier, so no not every game makes you the one and only superhero destined to save the world.
Yes, start, and then what? You are not just a soldier after few quests/levels, you helping queen, or what main NPC name was (sorry cant remember), that is not something what mere soldier do. If we follow your logic, you will get MMO regular soldier, not even a knight, simulator...Get up, do your training, clean weapon, done, log off, because you are just soldier, and cant do anything else.
My point is, no matter how you start, you will be always, in every game, a main character, main hero, because that is what people want.
You build up from a lowly soldier among many to a champion, but you are never the one special being as in ESO. That is the point that Sockmunkey is making.
Also I didn't present any argument about how a game should be set up, I just noted that you are incorrect to say that every mmo sets you up to be the one and only hero.
To give other examples, in DDO you are just an adventurer, if I recall correctly (been a long time) in Rift you are an ascended, special to be sure, but one of many ascended, in NWO you are not the "one and only saviour".
There is a lot of space between your "simulator" and being the one and only special being that can save the universe.
Sadly you are wrong about RIFT, if you remember starting instance and first rift you see , it is clearly stated that yes you are one of many, but you are the one to stop Regulos. Also if you completed Saga Of Death/whatever name for Guardians, Asha Cathari/guardian NPC both said many times how special are you and why you have been brought back to life. Faceless Man also.
And DDO is different game, with different setting, lore and universe, but you are right about this one, my bad, but i never played it so missed it because of that.
Anyway, those are just opinions, everyone has its own, glad we can talk in civil and normal way about it.
Yeah, to be honest its not such a big deal for me, I don't think that aspect of the game will particularly impact the reviews. ESO has great stories and running around with hundreds of other players in an mmo is just normal really- actually a good sign!
To be fair there is a mix of single player instances, open dungeons, group dungeons, questing etc, so ESO has a bit of everything, and so far every aspect I have seen has been done quite well.1 -
Felarrond✭✭✭This has also been one of my chief complaints about the game, is that almost nothing in the game is instanced. I shouldn't ALWAYS have to fight with 40 other people over a mob. I SHOULD be able to enjoy quests and dungeons with JUST FRIENDS if I really want to.
Seeing everyone, everywhere, all the time, gets old.0