The Fake Tank Preference Poll

ssewallb14_ESO

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

spartaxoxo

Real tank > fake with a taunt > fake without a taunt (I vote to kick this last one).

Braffin

Doesn't really matter to me personally, as I'm usually queuing with a full group of friends/guildmates. Then we decide together, if we bring tank/healer or just go full dps for a quick run. We mostly do rvd tho.

Araneae6537

It needn’t be so cut and dry and I wouldn’t expect a tank geared for an optimized group in a PUG. They may wear “selfish” sets so that even if the rest of the group fails, they can survive and rez the group. Or they may be newer and need the extra health/healing/armor. Or any number of other valid reasons.

I would define a tank as a player who aggros the dangerous enemies and can take a few hits. (I main a healer and I’m happy to give extra focus to newer/lower CP tanks, but if you’re getting one shot by the boss’s light attack, there’s not much I can do).

The rest — stacking, buffs, etc. are great but not required.

valenwood_vegan

Braffin wrote: »

Doesn't really matter to me personally, as I'm usually queuing with a full group of friends/guildmates. Then we decide together, if we bring tank/healer or just go full dps for a quick run. We mostly do rvd tho.

Same - I play with friends and guildies (or at most use the random finder to fill the 4th slot) and we briefly discuss what's needed and expected for the run and people swap or gear-up accordingly. Never any of this role drama. If we do take on a random person and they're fake, doesn't matter... we are prepared to handle their role.

LunaFlora

the only "fake" tanks that i am fine with are the ones that slot taunts and are basically just tanks.

i usually queue with a tank build for random dungeons anyways, but sometimes as healer instead

moo_2021

I always queue as tank now with pvp build plus taunt. It fixes all 3 issues and all I need is 1-2 other guys to share the dd role, depending on the difficulty.


If I do a real tank, many runs would take forever with 15k group dps, even worse than solo.

Braffin

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Doesn't really matter to me personally, as I'm usually queuing with a full group of friends/guildmates. Then we decide together, if we bring tank/healer or just go full dps for a quick run. We mostly do rvd tho.

Same - I play with friends and guildies (or at most use the random finder to fill the 4th slot) and we briefly discuss what's needed and expected for the run and people swap or gear-up accordingly. Never any of this role drama.

Yeah, exactly this.

I started this game back at launch, trying to tank random dungeons when they were invented. Wasn't the best experience due to a lot of toxicity (although I know how to tank in eso and did so rather successful in my guilds before switching to DD).

So I went back to exclusively play with friends/guildies, where we can play around with interesting (and sometimes odd but funny) group setups. That also keeps the dungeons fresh for a longer period of time.

I just can recommend to try this out to everyone. It almost feels like playing an entirely different game.

On a sidenote: Our first run of a new dungeon is always a "full story run", never was in question for anyone of us. There are also guilds, which specialize in doing "story mode dungeons" together without any obligations. If you are interested in doing such a run, just say so in guild chat and you'll have a group in less than 10 minutes usually.

ssewallb14_ESO

Araneae6537 wrote: »

It needn’t be so cut and dry and I wouldn’t expect a tank geared for an optimized group in a PUG. They may wear “selfish” sets so that even if the rest of the group fails, they can survive and rez the group. Or they may be newer and need the extra health/healing/armor. Or any number of other valid reasons.

I would define a tank as a player who aggros the dangerous enemies and can take a few hits. (I main a healer and I’m happy to give extra focus to newer/lower CP tanks, but if you’re getting one shot by the boss’s light attack, there’s not much I can do).

The rest — stacking, buffs, etc. are great but not required.

To clarify my hypothetical, the tank doesn't have to be an end-game player. "Buffs" as in anything a tank would likely provide, even if it's just class passives and Major Breach. Stacking as in makes an effort to control and position the enemies, pixel stacking and perfect execution not required.

Soarora

For a normal, I wouldn't care that much if it's a fake tank though I care a little. Biggest thing is having a taunt and not running ahead of the group... running ahead of the group is why I refuse to do random normals.

Dax_Draconis

I love a group that is made up of players that are the roles they queued for. Especially in these newer DLC dungeons with all of the convoluted mechanics.

Aurielle

Depends on the content. For base game dungeons, I roll my eyes a little when I see a 45k+ health tank with Ebon who just stands there holding block and taunt and throwing out the occasional War Horn. I’d far rather have a fake tank with a taunt who can do reasonable DPS.

For tougher DLC dungeons, I want a real tank.

slt101880b14_ESO

The only good fake tank/healer is a booted one.
100% more so if it's a dungeon hijacking speedrunner.

Galiferno

Voted for the wrong option on accident, but there's no need for a tank in any normal dungeon. I'll actually tease my friends for coming on a tank/healer for random normals because it means they're gonna be completely useless when the damage is good.

FelisCatus

This is only an issue on veteran content, on normal you don't need a tank if your DPS is high and you have self heal.

Solariken

I hate fake DD's way more than fake tanks.

OsUfi

FelisCatus wrote: »

This is only an issue on veteran content, on normal you don't need a tank if your DPS is high and you have self heal.

But that's the problem. Years ago fake tanks were godly 2k cp meta nutters that destroyed everything. I never used to mind that.

Nowadays everyone does it, and most fake tanks and healers can't out DPS me on a one bar PvP build in crafted gear with a taunt and group heals. They're usually so bad they completely invalidate any arguments about it being quicker.

The worst I had, and will always refer too, was the tank no taunt that ran in huge circles from a Wayrest 1 normal bosses. Pulling them out of everyone's AoEs. Not only was he a terrible tank, I could have healed him through all damage had he stayed still when attacked, and he slowed us down significantly. In wayrest chuffing one on ruddy normal mode. What the actual fudge?

So, no, now everyone and their dog queues as fakes, more often than not in my experience it's not quicker.

LaintalAy

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Real tank > fake with a taunt > fake without a taunt (I vote to kick this last one).

This is the only viable solution.
If you don't like what you are given, then get a new one.

An ancillary problem occurs when they queued with a mate that won't vote them out.

Ultimately, the real problem is the wait penalty if you decide to bail.

There's nothing worse than having to run a dungeon with players who can't or won't do the role they chose, and then having to stay on because you'll be penalised if you leave. Nothing about that is fair.

bmnoble

First choice would be a real tank if possible.

If the fake tank has a taunt I will put up with them, if they don't even have a taunt or get killed over and over, making it look like the run is going to take a very long time or next to impossible to complete, then I will vote to kick if that fails I leave the group.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Real tank > fake with a taunt > fake without a taunt (I vote to kick this last one).

I agree with this for groups who choose to have the game find a random tank for them. While when I used the GF I only recall one fake tank and it was probably because they were not only a fake tank but a bad DPS that could not manage to make it out of telegraphed PBAoEs.

Sometimes we do run with fake tanks and even a fake healer but we decide when we want extra DPS and can do without the tank or healer. I have noted before that I no longer run with random groups due to issues with poor performance from GF groups but it tended to be due to DPS and players not recognizing well telegraphed damage. I think a poll about that would be more interesting.

Jestir

It depends on 2 things

The content

Are they good enough

If it isn't hard content and they deal good damage and stay alive what's the issue

FelisCatus

OsUfi wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

This is only an issue on veteran content, on normal you don't need a tank if your DPS is high and you have self heal.

But that's the problem. Years ago fake tanks were godly 2k cp meta nutters that destroyed everything. I never used to mind that.

Nowadays everyone does it, and most fake tanks and healers can't out DPS me on a one bar PvP build in crafted gear with a taunt and group heals. They're usually so bad they completely invalidate any arguments about it being quicker.

The worst I had, and will always refer too, was the tank no taunt that ran in huge circles from a Wayrest 1 normal bosses. Pulling them out of everyone's AoEs. Not only was he a terrible tank, I could have healed him through all damage had he stayed still when attacked, and he slowed us down significantly. In wayrest chuffing one on ruddy normal mode. What the actual fudge?

So, no, now everyone and their dog queues as fakes, more often than not in my experience it's not quicker.

Idk then I haven't played random normals in sometime.

Hapexamendios

I'd rather have someone who has the armory assistant and can fulfill dps or tank roles. It will be me.

cuddles_with_wroble

Unless it’s a vet dlc dungeon than I don’t see why it matters

Vulkunne

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

lol others have made the point for me. I don't need to comment on this one.

Rowjoh

for all normal content and most vet content, a strong dps build that has taunt and a buff/de buff slotted ('fake tank') is way better than a 'real' tank.

Its fake healers that are the biggest problem in vet content.

spartaxoxo

Vulkunne wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

What is a real tank? I mean, serious question. What is a real tank. Will the real MMO Tank please stand up? We're going to have a problem here...

Do you mean like a Traditional Tank... commonly seen in Trials and more difficult 4-man content. Do you realize that a Traditional Tank requires a Traditional group? If this level of organization isn't present then you don't have a Traditional Tank.

Do you mean Tank w/ DPS? Oh well pleased to meet you. But wait... certain authorities and folks with strong expectations don't approve of a DPS Tank (also known as a Heavy DPS). To them that's not what a Tank is and I'm a fraud. Not worth anyone's time. Just not worth it. A Tank or Healer adding some DPS for when its appropriate is like heresy for some people.

Maybe what you really mean is someone who equips a taunt, like its a bumper sticker on an old used beat-up Honda or something. But then again, that sort of Tank doesn't come with any of the expectations or added power that a Tank should have. Just some guy with a Taunt... I dunno.

So what is it that you guys really want?

The bumper sticker thing is what they mean by a fake tank with a taunt.

OsUfi

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

What is a real tank? I mean, serious question. What is a real tank. Will the real MMO Tank please stand up? We're going to have a problem here...

Do you mean like a Traditional Tank... commonly seen in Trials and more difficult 4-man content. Do you realize that a Traditional Tank requires a Traditional group? If this level of organization isn't present then you don't have a Traditional Tank.

Do you mean Tank w/ DPS? Oh well pleased to meet you. But wait... certain authorities and folks with strong expectations don't approve of a DPS Tank (also known as a Heavy DPS). To them that's not what a Tank is and I'm a fraud. Not worth anyone's time. Just not worth it. A Tank or Healer adding some DPS for when its appropriate is like heresy for some people.

Maybe what you really mean is someone who equips a taunt, like its a bumper sticker on an old used beat-up Honda or something. But then again, that sort of Tank doesn't come with any of the expectations or added power that a Tank should have. Just some guy with a Taunt... I dunno.

So what is it that you guys really want?

The bumper sticker thing is what they mean by a fake tank with a taunt.

if someone has a taunt, and are holding a bosses aggro, they're a tank. If someones healing the group in some way, they're a healer. The whole "is it or isn't it a fake" debate is daft as heck.

AnduinTryggva

I think it would already help if the group search function for dungeons that allows enforcing roles (or not) applied to the random group dungeon search. That is you basically need only one tick to be set or not to be set on the question: enforce roles?
Thus people could simply queue for a dungeon that could be a farm run with 4dd or a challenge run with 1t1h2dd.

This would probably already remove the urge for some players to fake being a tank or heal to get a quick place in a dungeon run.

AnduinTryggva

OsUfi wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

What is a real tank? I mean, serious question. What is a real tank. Will the real MMO Tank please stand up? We're going to have a problem here...

Do you mean like a Traditional Tank... commonly seen in Trials and more difficult 4-man content. Do you realize that a Traditional Tank requires a Traditional group? If this level of organization isn't present then you don't have a Traditional Tank.

Do you mean Tank w/ DPS? Oh well pleased to meet you. But wait... certain authorities and folks with strong expectations don't approve of a DPS Tank (also known as a Heavy DPS). To them that's not what a Tank is and I'm a fraud. Not worth anyone's time. Just not worth it. A Tank or Healer adding some DPS for when its appropriate is like heresy for some people.

Maybe what you really mean is someone who equips a taunt, like its a bumper sticker on an old used beat-up Honda or something. But then again, that sort of Tank doesn't come with any of the expectations or added power that a Tank should have. Just some guy with a Taunt... I dunno.

So what is it that you guys really want?

The bumper sticker thing is what they mean by a fake tank with a taunt.

if someone has a taunt, and are holding a bosses aggro, they're a tank. If someones healing the group in some way, they're a healer. The whole "is it or isn't it a fake" debate is daft as heck.

It is not that simple. Usually as a tank it is not enough to take the aggro. You have to genuinely know the mechanic of a boss fight. On some fights if you do not time your blocks with the boss actions you die. And with death you lose all your aggro and this will be a problem for the group.
On some dungeons the tank has to taunt and lead the boss to a specific place or it will be a wipe.

OsUfi

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

For the sake of this poll, a real tank holds high threat aggro, stacks enemies, buffs the group (likely none of these things at an end-game level, but makes an effort), but does minimal damage . A fake tank does decent damage for a group finder pug, may or may not have a taunt slotted, and provides no other support typical of a tank.

For a random normal dungeon (standard chance of being base game or DLC) would you rather have:

What is a real tank? I mean, serious question. What is a real tank. Will the real MMO Tank please stand up? We're going to have a problem here...

Do you mean like a Traditional Tank... commonly seen in Trials and more difficult 4-man content. Do you realize that a Traditional Tank requires a Traditional group? If this level of organization isn't present then you don't have a Traditional Tank.

Do you mean Tank w/ DPS? Oh well pleased to meet you. But wait... certain authorities and folks with strong expectations don't approve of a DPS Tank (also known as a Heavy DPS). To them that's not what a Tank is and I'm a fraud. Not worth anyone's time. Just not worth it. A Tank or Healer adding some DPS for when its appropriate is like heresy for some people.

Maybe what you really mean is someone who equips a taunt, like its a bumper sticker on an old used beat-up Honda or something. But then again, that sort of Tank doesn't come with any of the expectations or added power that a Tank should have. Just some guy with a Taunt... I dunno.

So what is it that you guys really want?

The bumper sticker thing is what they mean by a fake tank with a taunt.

if someone has a taunt, and are holding a bosses aggro, they're a tank. If someones healing the group in some way, they're a healer. The whole "is it or isn't it a fake" debate is daft as heck.

You have to genuinely know the mechanic of a boss fight. On some fights if you do not time your blocks with the boss actions you die. And with death you lose all your aggro and this will be a problem for the group. On some dungeons the tank has to taunt and lead the boss to a specific place or it will be a wipe.

And if someone with a taunt doesn't know these things, they're inexperienced and learning. But they're not fake.

If they do know these things, and still fail to do them, then they're a numpty. They're also still not fake.