Please Cancel MYM Whitestrake's 2024

Aurielle

TheMajority wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Don't make us do Dungeons and PvE stuff for tickets during every other event of the year when all I want to do is PvP.

See how unrealistic that request is? There's literally 2 PvP events a year - either skip the event or suck it up and PvP.

PVE players can not so easily do PVP content events due to the very specific and meta gearing necessary, along with the associated playstyles/rotations.

I have been PVPing for 20+ years as my primary activity in MMORPGs, never had an issue with running a dungeon. But I see many PVE players have a myriad of issues doing PVP.

They are not the same thing.

Mmm, no. You do not need to wear meta gear or run any sort of rotation in Cyrodiil UNLESS you’re part of some sweaty ball group. You can literally go into Cyrodiil wearing anything you like, join your alliance’s main zerg, make hundreds upon thousands of AP with ease, and earn event tickets with ease.

Most PVEers have crafters, right? Or know people who craft? Right, so if PVEers want to go in at least semi prepared rather than just wearing their PVE gear, here is a super simple crafted build any PVEer can acquire that will help them to survive in a zerg:

5 pc Wretched Vitality
5 pc Fortified Brass
Monster set of your choice

5 heavy, one light, one medium for the Undaunted passives (which you should already have maxed out, being PVEers and all). 4-5 impen pieces, the rest reinforced or well fitted. Purple health glyphs on everything. Sharpened weapons, powered or defending back bar. EASY, will take less than five minutes to craft. And by no means is this difficult/tedious to farm “meta” gear.

And PVEers tend to have gold stockpiles, right? For even more survivability, simply swap out Fortified Brass for Pariah (which can be purchased cheaply through most guild traders). Once you accrue enough AP, you can, if you wish, then purchase the Nibenay Bay Battlereeve’s monster set from your alliance base vendors for even MORE survivability. This set adds 424 crit resistance, reduces damage you take from players by 5%, and gives you a beefy shield whenever you’re moved by a pull or anything like that (so you can survive Dark Convergence pulls).

You’ll still die, like we all do, but you won’t be ganker or bomber bait. And you might even (gasp!) have fun, and stick around after the mayhem is done.

You just proved my point. Thank you.
This is knowledge you possess, this is not common knowledge for the majority of the PVE player base.

I’m simply trying to help… Like I said, you can go into Cyrodiil wearing anything you like, follow a Zerg around, join a group, whatever, and still get your tickets. Gearing up is NOT necessary. But IF (and that’s key here, IF) some poor, hapless, knowledgeless PVEer wants to be a little tankier, my advice will help them survive those oh-so-scary ganks. Meta DPS gear isn’t “common knowledge” to people who don’t regularly participate in dungeons and trials either, so I don’t really even understand what point you’re trying to make. Anyone who lacks knowledge about a particular game mode will significantly improve their experience in said game mode by reading up on it a little. Everyone has to do it for every other aspect of this game, so I don’t really know why it’s an issue when it comes to PVP?

^This, yes I agree. And also, many of the same principals which apply to PVE gearing, setups, and passives, also apply to PVP, just used differently. Reading up on it, I did not find PVP harder to understand compared to my PVE experience.

Also, many suggestions and guides from PVP players to get through this event unscathed are available when you search for it. Not every PVP player wants to eat PVE players, some would actually like to help you enjoy what they enjoy, or at least guide you through their zone.

I learned what I know from a PVP player who escorted me through Cyro my first time in the event, and taught me the pre-load method. I asked questions and received knowledge instead of being upset about dying or yelling at others, or taking the "its too hard for me" attitude. I did not let my own self-imposed restriction hold me back.

Tip for other PVE players: When you approach PVP players with a mind towards finding solutions and actually speaking to them rather accusing them of being bad just for doing what they are supposed to do in THEIR zone, then they are open to helping you learn. The same goes in the opposite direction- PVE will help PVP when reasonable discussion.

Ganking is a part of how this part of the game of pvp works- pvp players do get ganked too. (And it can be funny on a pve build to turn around and kill a ganker if you knock them out of stealth and use your own burst combos)

I am not saying it's right that some camp quest locations but that's really not all PVP players and there are many ways to avoid it.

Agreed with all of this.

I feel like part of this whole divide boils down to the misconception that all PVPers are mean and toxic. Couldn’t be farther from the truth. Some of the nicest, most helpful people I know in this game play in Cyrodiil every night. There are toxic people in ALL of ESO’s game modes. You don’t have to engage with them if you don’t want to. If someone is ganking you repeatedly and being toxic/teabagging/etc, you can just go somewhere else. It’s a big map, with lots of quests to do in locations that aren’t anywhere near the main PVP objectives. And seriously? If you’re part of my alliance and some glass cannon NB is smacking around people doing quests for the event? Myself and plenty of others like me will quite happily be your bodyguards, because we quite enjoy doing the /sweep emote over the dead bodies of cowardly gankers who think it’s fun to target questers who don’t put up a fight.

Hapexamendios

No way, absolutely not. The Mayhem events are one of the best ways for me to get AP and transmute crystals. I'll repair castles on all 20 characters until I get level one awards. Just to give you a perspective of where there this is coming from: I am a PVE player and I hate PVP. I accept the risk of being killed by going in there. I don't like that, but the rewards are worth it to me.

FlopsyPrince

Aurielle wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

In the game's current state MYM should be cancelled. The PvP experience has deteriorated to a state where it can take 10 minutes or more to get out of combat.

Repeated forced suicide is the only real option to continue playing after an encounter since we're often stuck in combat.

Friendly player heals prompt stuck in combat as well, so even if you die, and rez at the wayshrine, you should expect to enter combat if a healer is present and throwing around abilities.

Since you can't mount during this state, you should expect gameplay will be slow, grouping will be frustrating, and the flow of fighting will be erratic and tiresome as you wait for the game to release.

Buffs can also be affected by this state - stuck in combat is often paired with a nasty cocktail of other unresolved bugs and errors - see 49710.

This is the worst I've seen the SIC bug in years, and with no formal comment from the devs, we should expect it to continue unabated until either the skill, or the will to resolve the issue presents itself.

I agree the bug is terrible and ridiculous, but you don’t have to suicide to fix the bug. Enter a delve or (better still) port to your home base and quickly enter then exit Cheesemonger’s Hollow. When you see people saying they’re going to “take a quick cheese bath”, that’s what they’re referring to,

That won't work if the instance is full. Back to the queue for you!

Auldwulfe

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

ZOS could take it a step further and create a campaign for just getting tickets ... then the PVE'ers wouldn't be crowding out the PVP people, and causing all the lag and other things that PVP complains about, all the rest of the time.
That would fix the problem, too

Auldwulfe

TaSheen

Auldwulfe wrote: »

ZOS could take it a step further and create a campaign for just getting tickets ... then the PVE'ers wouldn't be crowding out the PVP people, and causing all the lag and other things that PVP complains about, all the rest of the time.
That would fix the problem, too

Auldwulfe

That would never fit into ZOS's "get everyone to do everything in the game" philosophy. So it's highly unlikely.

I no longer pvp in any game, so I just shrug and appreciate events I'm happy to skip. There will be enough tickets for me to get the last indrik I need this quarter.

katanagirl1

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

ZOS could take it a step further and create a campaign for just getting tickets ... then the PVE'ers wouldn't be crowding out the PVP people, and causing all the lag and other things that PVP complains about, all the rest of the time.
That would fix the problem, too

Auldwulfe

If PvE players stay out of GH main campaign and stick to the newer campaigns that will be added for the event, there should be a much lesser chance of becoming a victim to PvP players while getting their tickets. Those of us who PvP regularly will want to be on our home campaign.

TaSheen

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

ZOS could take it a step further and create a campaign for just getting tickets ... then the PVE'ers wouldn't be crowding out the PVP people, and causing all the lag and other things that PVP complains about, all the rest of the time.
That would fix the problem, too

Auldwulfe

If PvE players stay out of GH main campaign and stick to the newer campaigns that will be added for the event, there should be a much lesser chance of becoming a victim to PvP players while getting their tickets. Those of us who PvP regularly will want to be on our home campaign.

This. When I need to do something in Cyrodiil, I start with Ravenwatch - because I've never seen more than one bar on any faction in that campaign for YEARS now. And MYM they always spin up more campaigns; some of them are bound to be very low pop;.

If all you want is to get tickets for quests, you should be just fine in any low pop campaign really.

Auldwulfe

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

ZOS could take it a step further and create a campaign for just getting tickets ... then the PVE'ers wouldn't be crowding out the PVP people, and causing all the lag and other things that PVP complains about, all the rest of the time.
That would fix the problem, too

Auldwulfe

If PvE players stay out of GH main campaign and stick to the newer campaigns that will be added for the event, there should be a much lesser chance of becoming a victim to PvP players while getting their tickets. Those of us who PvP regularly will want to be on our home campaign.

I tend to use under 50's a LOT, and I have several with high mount speed -- but, you can make some, get them to 10, and use the assault skill, and steed mundus, etc......
Mind you, I do sometimes PVP, and have characters for it..... but there are a LOT of options, I just suggested one campaign for those that don't want to PVP at all.... as it would also reduce lag on those that do.

Auldwulfe

Amottica

Aurielle wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Don't make us do Dungeons and PvE stuff for tickets during every other event of the year when all I want to do is PvP.

See how unrealistic that request is? There's literally 2 PvP events a year - either skip the event or suck it up and PvP.

PVE players can not so easily do PVP content events due to the very specific and meta gearing necessary, along with the associated playstyles/rotations.

I have been PVPing for 20+ years as my primary activity in MMORPGs, never had an issue with running a dungeon. But I see many PVE players have a myriad of issues doing PVP.

They are not the same thing.

Mmm, no. You do not need to wear meta gear or run any sort of rotation in Cyrodiil UNLESS you’re part of some sweaty ball group. You can literally go into Cyrodiil wearing anything you like, join your alliance’s main zerg, make hundreds upon thousands of AP with ease, and earn event tickets with ease.

Most PVEers have crafters, right? Or know people who craft? Right, so if PVEers want to go in at least semi prepared rather than just wearing their PVE gear, here is a super simple crafted build any PVEer can acquire that will help them to survive in a zerg:

5 pc Wretched Vitality
5 pc Fortified Brass
Monster set of your choice

5 heavy, one light, one medium for the Undaunted passives (which you should already have maxed out, being PVEers and all). 4-5 impen pieces, the rest reinforced or well fitted. Purple health glyphs on everything. Sharpened weapons, powered or defending back bar. EASY, will take less than five minutes to craft. And by no means is this difficult/tedious to farm “meta” gear.

And PVEers tend to have gold stockpiles, right? For even more survivability, simply swap out Fortified Brass for Pariah (which can be purchased cheaply through most guild traders). Once you accrue enough AP, you can, if you wish, then purchase the Nibenay Bay Battlereeve’s monster set from your alliance base vendors for even MORE survivability. This set adds 424 crit resistance, reduces damage you take from players by 5%, and gives you a beefy shield whenever you’re moved by a pull or anything like that (so you can survive Dark Convergence pulls).

You’ll still die, like we all do, but you won’t be ganker or bomber bait. And you might even (gasp!) have fun, and stick around after the mayhem is done.

I know players who do Cyrodill, even during MYM, in their PvE raid gear and do just fine. Are they optimal? Of course not. Heck, most in PvE are not optimal either.

Vulkunne

Sarannah wrote: »

Sorry, but that is just my opinion on PvP. And, I can honestly say I have never prevented or delayed anyone from getting their event tickets during a PvE event. So that should not happen in PvP events either.

Also, I have nothing against PvPers or PvP in general(I just hate it). And do feel ZOS needs to pay attention to PvP. But being 'forced' into it is wrong on so many levels. PvP requires levels, gear, skill, skillpoints, preparation, reflexes, stable internet, etc... not everyone can do that. Besides that, I do not think PvP in ESO is actually really PvP. It is more of a gankfest. PvP needs some really serious changes to make it accessible for everyone, before players should ever be 'forced' into it.

If players actually wanted to PvP in ESO, those zones would be packed when there isn't an event going on.

Jierdanit wrote: »

Those lucky PvPers who only have to PvE basically everyday to get their gear and consumables that are totally not important can't even imagine your pain.

Well, to be honest this is one of the things ZOS should change about PvP in my opinion. No potions, no food/drinks, basic gear sets/loadout choices, dpsgap removed, no add-ons, etc... to make PvP truly fair and more easily accessible, even for PvPers. Fair PvP battles would be more fun for everyone.
The problem is: Most players do not want fair PvP.

"Most players do not want fair PvP?"

Please provide your metrics in support of the ascertain 'most'. Secondly from experience, actually many PvPers that I know want a fair experience with less lag and fewer ball groups. A ball group every now and again is fine, kind of like the hammer spawning but multiple ball groups that are unkillable are the real issue.

Sarannah, I understand you're not happy about some things PvP related, which I can somewhat understand. However I just think its better for us to identify the real issue(s) and work on those rather than get lost in how mad things or people can make us. Certain AD guilds have made me kind of mad in the past too so again I can understand but I can't let that set the table for everything else PvP related.

Aurielle

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

In the game's current state MYM should be cancelled. The PvP experience has deteriorated to a state where it can take 10 minutes or more to get out of combat.

Repeated forced suicide is the only real option to continue playing after an encounter since we're often stuck in combat.

Friendly player heals prompt stuck in combat as well, so even if you die, and rez at the wayshrine, you should expect to enter combat if a healer is present and throwing around abilities.

Since you can't mount during this state, you should expect gameplay will be slow, grouping will be frustrating, and the flow of fighting will be erratic and tiresome as you wait for the game to release.

Buffs can also be affected by this state - stuck in combat is often paired with a nasty cocktail of other unresolved bugs and errors - see 49710.

This is the worst I've seen the SIC bug in years, and with no formal comment from the devs, we should expect it to continue unabated until either the skill, or the will to resolve the issue presents itself.

I agree the bug is terrible and ridiculous, but you don’t have to suicide to fix the bug. Enter a delve or (better still) port to your home base and quickly enter then exit Cheesemonger’s Hollow. When you see people saying they’re going to “take a quick cheese bath”, that’s what they’re referring to,

That won't work if the instance is full. Back to the queue for you!

Good point, I didn’t think about that (I personally only have to use the Cheesemonger’s Hollow trick about 2-3 times a week). During off peak hours, it’s a great way to get rid of the bug, but given that we’re usually pop-locked all day during mayhem events… yup, you’re right, not really an option. It truly is a moronic bug.

Perhaps for ESO’s tenth anniversary, one of our gifts will be the ability to mount up while in combat…

FlopsyPrince

Vulkunne wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Sorry, but that is just my opinion on PvP. And, I can honestly say I have never prevented or delayed anyone from getting their event tickets during a PvE event. So that should not happen in PvP events either.

Also, I have nothing against PvPers or PvP in general(I just hate it). And do feel ZOS needs to pay attention to PvP. But being 'forced' into it is wrong on so many levels. PvP requires levels, gear, skill, skillpoints, preparation, reflexes, stable internet, etc... not everyone can do that. Besides that, I do not think PvP in ESO is actually really PvP. It is more of a gankfest. PvP needs some really serious changes to make it accessible for everyone, before players should ever be 'forced' into it.

If players actually wanted to PvP in ESO, those zones would be packed when there isn't an event going on.

Jierdanit wrote: »

Those lucky PvPers who only have to PvE basically everyday to get their gear and consumables that are totally not important can't even imagine your pain.

Well, to be honest this is one of the things ZOS should change about PvP in my opinion. No potions, no food/drinks, basic gear sets/loadout choices, dpsgap removed, no add-ons, etc... to make PvP truly fair and more easily accessible, even for PvPers. Fair PvP battles would be more fun for everyone.
The problem is: Most players do not want fair PvP.

"Most players do not want fair PvP?"

Please provide your metrics in support of the ascertain 'most'. Secondly from experience, actually many PvPers that I know want a fair experience with less lag and fewer ball groups. A ball group every now and again is fine, kind of like the hammer spawning but multiple ball groups that are unkillable are the real issue.

Sarannah, I understand you're not happy about some things PvP related, which I can somewhat understand. However I just think its better for us to identify the real issue(s) and work on those rather than get lost in how mad things or people can make us. Certain AD guilds have made me kind of mad in the past too so again I can understand but I can't let that set the table for everything else PvP related.

I have never seen a post/reply by someone that PvPs a lot who says they want fair PvP.

Post about getting frustrated being continually ganked and you will get jumped on and told to "get good" or "just skip it then".

I have noted before that ZOS needs to fix things if they really want to encourage non-PvPers to even put their toes in, especially during an event.

Rishikesa108

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

I respectfully disagree. You have to kill IC bosses to get Style pages, and often you don't get those easily, but after many bosses killed. So it's not so easy if you are a PVE player. You will be killed many times by other players, and you will lose your Tel Var. ZOS should let Style pages drop from IC quests or from Cyro quests. That should be better for PVEers

dcrush

Can we get a sticky thread where people can complain twice a year about being “forced” to do pvp even though every six months other players give advice on how to get tickets without actually doing any pvp?

Maybe we can also add some info on what exactly ganking is and a disclaimer that anyone found camping quest locations during the event is most likely a PVE player who is bad at pvp and therefore hunts other PVErs.

LunaFlora

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

Julia_Nix

I'm glad that I have no interest in Impresario inventory and can skip event chores entirely.

Jierdanit

LunaFlora wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

The same thing is true for PvP.

You just need to be willing to put in the work to actually figure stuff out.

Sarannah

This is actually a really good thread on discussing PvP, which was kind of the point behind my first controversial reply. Ofcourse I know ZOS won't cancel an event just because one idiot(me) posted he doesn't like it. But I was hoping this would atleast get a discussion going on how ZOS can better this event for everyone involved. As PvP has a too high requirement to just place people in there(event tickets) with no preparation or anything else needed.

PvP should be for everyone, and should be accessible to everyone. This is the number one major issue with PvP. And in order for PvP to grow, some major PvP things need to change. Atleast in my opinion. (If the PvP population grows with all the PvE'ers, PvP would probably also see more love and attention from ZOS, as it would then retain a steady population)

Players shouldn't die in 0.2 seconds either, this leaves no room to learn PvP on your own. Nor does this leave room to call for help, as the battle will be over before you can type "help". It just feels bad, and isn't fun. Take the PvP in other major MMO's, there players die much slower, but this is what makes it real PvP. Players in other MMO's also follow objectives, here every BG is a deathmatch for some. And then they act surprised when noone queues for BG's anymore as those players get slaughtered over and over, creating bigger and bigger queue times. Due to most players not having fun in there, even worse a horrible experience.

Ofcourse all of the above should be done without changing ESO's unique combat system. PvP should be for everyone!

PS: PvP events can sometimes be fun the first few days, when it is mostly PvE'ers vs PvE'ers, which makes for some fair fights. After that it becomes a gankfest again. PvPers ruin PvP.
PPS: To get all the event morphs and the base pet when ZOS is done with a specific event reward, you can't miss any event tickets at all. Unless you want to buy a few from the shop(which I never do).

LunaFlora

.

Sarannah wrote: »

This is actually a really good thread on discussing PvP, which was kind of the point behind my first controversial reply. Ofcourse I know ZOS won't cancel an event just because one idiot(me) posted he doesn't like it. But I was hoping this would atleast get a discussion going on how ZOS can better this event for everyone involved. As PvP has a too high requirement to just place people in there(event tickets) with no preparation or anything else needed.

PvP should be for everyone, and should be accessible to everyone. This is the number one major issue with PvP. And in order for PvP to grow, some major PvP things need to change. Atleast in my opinion. (If the PvP population grows with all the PvE'ers, PvP would probably also see more love and attention from ZOS, as it would then retain a steady population)

Players shouldn't die in 0.2 seconds either, this leaves no room to learn PvP on your own. Nor does this leave room to call for help, as the battle will be over before you can type "help". It just feels bad, and isn't fun. Take the PvP in other major MMO's, there players die much slower, but this is what makes it real PvP. Players in other MMO's also follow objectives, here every BG is a deathmatch for some. And then they act surprised when noone queues for BG's anymore as those players get slaughtered over and over, creating bigger and bigger queue times. Due to most players not having fun in there, even worse a horrible experience.

Ofcourse all of the above should be done without changing ESO's unique combat system. PvP should be for everyone!

PS: PvP events can sometimes be fun the first few days, when it is mostly PvE'ers vs PvE'ers, which makes for some fair fights. After that it becomes a gankfest again. PvPers ruin PvP.
PPS: To get all the event morphs and the base pet when ZOS is done with a specific event reward, you can't miss any event tickets at all. Unless you want to buy a few from the shop(which I never do).

yea it's really hard to learn in PvP when we die super fast. i agree it isn't fun

LunaFlora

Jierdanit wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

The same thing is true for PvP.

You just need to be willing to put in the work to actually figure stuff out.

there are no mechanics that are always the same. players are unpredictable and aren't the same in every encounter.
so it is way harder and not simply about being willing to put in work.

you can more easily learn from a dungeon boss encounter, because they are the same every time. you can start again right after dying!

you can't simply start again to learn unless you are dueling with someome who is willing to teach you.

Jierdanit

LunaFlora wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

The same thing is true for PvP.

You just need to be willing to put in the work to actually figure stuff out.

there are no mechanics that are always the same. players are unpredictable and aren't the same in every encounter.
so it is way harder and not simply about being willing to put in work.

you can more easily learn from a dungeon boss encounter, because they are the same every time. you can start again right after dying!

you can't simply start again to learn unless you are dueling with someome who is willing to teach you.

It's the same principle, it just takes longer for PvP.

There very much are mechanics that are going to be very similar even when you're fighting different players.
After a while you're going to recognize the usual patterns used for burst combos and learn to counter them for example.

You can definitely learn dungeon mechanics easier than PvP, but it's not impossible.

Also for me that is one of the biggest reasons I prefer PvP to PvE.
You always have to figure out ways to counterplay the stuff people come up with, while a dungeon is never going to change.

FlopsyPrince

No, it is not "the same" for PvP, unless you compare that to Trials, which some of us will never do. I can't even do some group dungeons.

Having the eye-finger coordination is much harder for some. Doable enough for much PvE content, but impossible when going against players that can take a full massive hit and get 0 damage, then 1-shot me. I am not in proper PvP gear, but really?

Getting ganked 5 times in a row (last time I tried during an event) killed the idea of trying to run some of the quests.

Those of you who love ganking need to learn that the ganked will stop being your targets when it is useless to even try.

It would be much better if I played against others with my skill, but nothing enforces that now, something many here miss.

Aurielle

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No, it is not "the same" for PvP, unless you compare that to Trials, which some of us will never do. I can't even do some group dungeons.

Having the eye-finger coordination is much harder for some. Doable enough for much PvE content, but impossible when going against players that can take a full massive hit and get 0 damage, then 1-shot me. I am not in proper PvP gear, but really?

Getting ganked 5 times in a row (last time I tried during an event) killed the idea of trying to run some of the quests.

Those of you who love ganking need to learn that the ganked will stop being your targets when it is useless to even try.

It would be much better if I played against others with my skill, but nothing enforces that now, something many here miss.

It’s absolutely true that different people struggle with content that others find easy in this game. But that doesn’t mean an entire event should not exist... You wouldn’t cancel dungeon events because some people struggle to complete dungeons on normal difficulty. Similarly, PVP events should not be cancelled because some PVEers don’t like PVP.

As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, you can pre-load MYM quests, complete them in dead campaigns before the event when there’s no one around (see: no CP campaign) and turn them in during the event without ever having to encounter another player at a quest objective. Heck, even I am pre-loading the quests, and I’m a PVPer! I’d much rather spend my time earning double AP during the event, not doing quests.

This really isn’t difficult to do. I frankly think it’s extremely toxic of anyone who is anti-PVP to insist every year that this event shouldn’t exist — especially after all the helpful advice that has been given. I could understand getting upset if the event required you to kill another player to get event tickets, but that’s obviously not how it works. These are quick, painfully easy quests that can be done in advance in dead campaigns where your chances of running into another player are infinitesimally small.

Aurielle

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Sorry, but that is just my opinion on PvP. And, I can honestly say I have never prevented or delayed anyone from getting their event tickets during a PvE event. So that should not happen in PvP events either.

Also, I have nothing against PvPers or PvP in general(I just hate it). And do feel ZOS needs to pay attention to PvP. But being 'forced' into it is wrong on so many levels. PvP requires levels, gear, skill, skillpoints, preparation, reflexes, stable internet, etc... not everyone can do that. Besides that, I do not think PvP in ESO is actually really PvP. It is more of a gankfest. PvP needs some really serious changes to make it accessible for everyone, before players should ever be 'forced' into it.

If players actually wanted to PvP in ESO, those zones would be packed when there isn't an event going on.

Jierdanit wrote: »

Those lucky PvPers who only have to PvE basically everyday to get their gear and consumables that are totally not important can't even imagine your pain.

Well, to be honest this is one of the things ZOS should change about PvP in my opinion. No potions, no food/drinks, basic gear sets/loadout choices, dpsgap removed, no add-ons, etc... to make PvP truly fair and more easily accessible, even for PvPers. Fair PvP battles would be more fun for everyone.
The problem is: Most players do not want fair PvP.

"Most players do not want fair PvP?"

Please provide your metrics in support of the ascertain 'most'. Secondly from experience, actually many PvPers that I know want a fair experience with less lag and fewer ball groups. A ball group every now and again is fine, kind of like the hammer spawning but multiple ball groups that are unkillable are the real issue.

Sarannah, I understand you're not happy about some things PvP related, which I can somewhat understand. However I just think its better for us to identify the real issue(s) and work on those rather than get lost in how mad things or people can make us. Certain AD guilds have made me kind of mad in the past too so again I can understand but I can't let that set the table for everything else PvP related.

I have never seen a post/reply by someone that PvPs a lot who says they want fair PvP.

Post about getting frustrated being continually ganked and you will get jumped on and told to "get good" or "just skip it then".

I have noted before that ZOS needs to fix things if they really want to encourage non-PvPers to even put their toes in, especially during an event.

I’m a PVPer, and I want fair fights in PVP. There’s a reason why our raid leaders instruct us to avoid the sweat lords who hang out in resource towers, why we’re instructed to spread out on flags and doors to avoid nightblade bombs, why we’re instructed to leave keeps where ball groups from opposing alliances are farming non-ball groups in our alliance rather than fighting each other, etc.

There: now you have seen a reply by someone who PVPs a lot who wants fair PVP. Don’t paint us all with the same brush. What you’ve just said would be like me saying “all people who run trials are toxic, elitist players who expect you to wear specific gear and churn out 100k DPS on a trial dummy,” which wouldn’t be true at all. SOME people who run trials are toxic, elitist players, like SOME people who do PVP don’t want fair fights. Not all. Some.

Ragnarok0130

LadyLavina wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Nah, they really shouldn't cancel MYM because of those reasons. They should cancel MYM because noone wants to PvP.

I know what I'll be doing during that event: Grab my tickets as fast as possible, be annoyed by all the delays and time wasted due to gankers/PvPers, and then log off for the rest of the day while being annoyed.

PS: Don't make us go to multiple PvP zones to get all the event tickets in PvP events, as that's even more annoying on top of PvP itself being annoying/stupid.

Oh Lawd here we go again.....

Stop trying to prevent PVPers from having an event and enjoying the game just because you don't enjoy ESO PVP. You just need to complete a small amount of missions and you have your tickets - complete the mission, drive on, and be done until the next day and let the PVPers enjoy their time in the sun. You can also minimize your pain points by doing these missions during off hours when there's little to no PVPers present as well as dropping into an unpopulated no CP campaign.

I'm an end game trial main and think the PVPers need their own part of the game to be respected. Heck, I even jump into Cyro and IC during MYM because its exciting but I am certainly not a PVPer I'm a holiday tourist who dies far more often that I kill but it's a nice change of pace.

Indeed. I tend to not PvE, but have to do so to gain access to certain things (dungeon/trial sets, mainly). Obviously PvP/E are apples and oranges. The point is there is no perfect game and , with all due respect, the opinions of some PvE'ers would be more respected if the loudest among them weren't so militantly anti-pvp.

I feel you, as a support main I had to PVP in order to unlock the PVP skill lines for use in trials. I understand some people's umbrage having to play a part of the game they don't like however it exposes you to aspects of the game that you just might end up liking but wouldn't know about if one stayed in their bubble. I think this is the best part of MYM.

Four_Fingers

LunaFlora wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

Well then the same applies to PvP, you can also figure it out as you go.
But as most things it is best to at least make an effort to be prepared.

LunaFlora

Four_Fingers wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Nobody knows PvE boss mechanics till someone tells them or they look it up either.

you can figure it out without other people.
guides don't spawn out of thin air

Well then the same applies to PvP, you can also figure it out as you go.
But as most things it is best to at least make an effort to be prepared.

Learning from PvP encounters is not the same as dungeon boss encounters or other PvE encounters.
you can't just restart and learn what you did wrong because usually the opposing player has already sped off to a new target and isn't just gonna teach you.

and players are not the same every encounter unlike dungeon bosses.

React

Sarannah wrote: »

This is actually a really good thread on discussing PvP, which was kind of the point behind my first controversial reply. Ofcourse I know ZOS won't cancel an event just because one idiot(me) posted he doesn't like it. But I was hoping this would atleast get a discussion going on how ZOS can better this event for everyone involved. As PvP has a too high requirement to just place people in there(event tickets) with no preparation or anything else needed.

PvP should be for everyone, and should be accessible to everyone. This is the number one major issue with PvP. And in order for PvP to grow, some major PvP things need to change. Atleast in my opinion. (If the PvP population grows with all the PvE'ers, PvP would probably also see more love and attention from ZOS, as it would then retain a steady population)

Players shouldn't die in 0.2 seconds either, this leaves no room to learn PvP on your own. Nor does this leave room to call for help, as the battle will be over before you can type "help". It just feels bad, and isn't fun. Take the PvP in other major MMO's, there players die much slower, but this is what makes it real PvP. Players in other MMO's also follow objectives, here every BG is a deathmatch for some. And then they act surprised when noone queues for BG's anymore as those players get slaughtered over and over, creating bigger and bigger queue times. Due to most players not having fun in there, even worse a horrible experience.

Ofcourse all of the above should be done without changing ESO's unique combat system. PvP should be for everyone!

PS: PvP events can sometimes be fun the first few days, when it is mostly PvE'ers vs PvE'ers, which makes for some fair fights. After that it becomes a gankfest again. PvPers ruin PvP.
PPS: To get all the event morphs and the base pet when ZOS is done with a specific event reward, you can't miss any event tickets at all. Unless you want to buy a few from the shop(which I never do).

PvP time to kill is genuinely the highest it has ever been, possibly in the history of the game. I'd say the vast majority (80%+) of PVP mains agree that we're in a "tank meta" where people are unreasonably hard to kill.

You can't expect to survive if you aren't even going to take the time to research the gear, cp, attributes, etc that you should be using prior to going into pvp. The exact same applies on the PVE side - you can't expect to do high dps without researching a proper PVE build.

I've spent a lot of my personal time teaching people about PVP. At the end of the day I often find that people don't actually want to learn how to PVP, they want to be unkillable so they don't need to learn from their mistakes like the rest of us did. Keep in mind, the game has been out for a decade now - a lot of the people you'll encounter have 10,000+ hours in PVP.

Accessibility doesn't, and should not work the same way in PVP as it does in PVE. You cannot simply give inexperienced players tools that will balance them with experienced players, because that invalidates the thousands of hours veterans have spent honing their craft.

Braffin

React wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

This is actually a really good thread on discussing PvP, which was kind of the point behind my first controversial reply. Ofcourse I know ZOS won't cancel an event just because one idiot(me) posted he doesn't like it. But I was hoping this would atleast get a discussion going on how ZOS can better this event for everyone involved. As PvP has a too high requirement to just place people in there(event tickets) with no preparation or anything else needed.

PvP should be for everyone, and should be accessible to everyone. This is the number one major issue with PvP. And in order for PvP to grow, some major PvP things need to change. Atleast in my opinion. (If the PvP population grows with all the PvE'ers, PvP would probably also see more love and attention from ZOS, as it would then retain a steady population)

Players shouldn't die in 0.2 seconds either, this leaves no room to learn PvP on your own. Nor does this leave room to call for help, as the battle will be over before you can type "help". It just feels bad, and isn't fun. Take the PvP in other major MMO's, there players die much slower, but this is what makes it real PvP. Players in other MMO's also follow objectives, here every BG is a deathmatch for some. And then they act surprised when noone queues for BG's anymore as those players get slaughtered over and over, creating bigger and bigger queue times. Due to most players not having fun in there, even worse a horrible experience.

Ofcourse all of the above should be done without changing ESO's unique combat system. PvP should be for everyone!

PS: PvP events can sometimes be fun the first few days, when it is mostly PvE'ers vs PvE'ers, which makes for some fair fights. After that it becomes a gankfest again. PvPers ruin PvP.
PPS: To get all the event morphs and the base pet when ZOS is done with a specific event reward, you can't miss any event tickets at all. Unless you want to buy a few from the shop(which I never do).

Accessibility doesn't, and should not work the same way in PVP as it does in PVE. You cannot simply give inexperienced players tools that will balance them with experienced players, because that invalidates the thousands of hours veterans have spent honing their craft.

I agree, except your words regarding PvE. Inexperienced players shouldn't match the results of experienced players in any game-mode. This would only trivialize the game and lead to an overall decrease of skill regarding the community. That's why in PvE balance should mainly be focused around encountered content instead of fruitlessly trying to "narrow the dps-gap"

I agree tho, that PvP-gameplay is more impacted by bad design-choices (like former brokensoul for example) due to it's competitive nature.

React

Braffin wrote: »

React wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

This is actually a really good thread on discussing PvP, which was kind of the point behind my first controversial reply. Ofcourse I know ZOS won't cancel an event just because one idiot(me) posted he doesn't like it. But I was hoping this would atleast get a discussion going on how ZOS can better this event for everyone involved. As PvP has a too high requirement to just place people in there(event tickets) with no preparation or anything else needed.

PvP should be for everyone, and should be accessible to everyone. This is the number one major issue with PvP. And in order for PvP to grow, some major PvP things need to change. Atleast in my opinion. (If the PvP population grows with all the PvE'ers, PvP would probably also see more love and attention from ZOS, as it would then retain a steady population)

Players shouldn't die in 0.2 seconds either, this leaves no room to learn PvP on your own. Nor does this leave room to call for help, as the battle will be over before you can type "help". It just feels bad, and isn't fun. Take the PvP in other major MMO's, there players die much slower, but this is what makes it real PvP. Players in other MMO's also follow objectives, here every BG is a deathmatch for some. And then they act surprised when noone queues for BG's anymore as those players get slaughtered over and over, creating bigger and bigger queue times. Due to most players not having fun in there, even worse a horrible experience.

Ofcourse all of the above should be done without changing ESO's unique combat system. PvP should be for everyone!

PS: PvP events can sometimes be fun the first few days, when it is mostly PvE'ers vs PvE'ers, which makes for some fair fights. After that it becomes a gankfest again. PvPers ruin PvP.
PPS: To get all the event morphs and the base pet when ZOS is done with a specific event reward, you can't miss any event tickets at all. Unless you want to buy a few from the shop(which I never do).

Accessibility doesn't, and should not work the same way in PVP as it does in PVE. You cannot simply give inexperienced players tools that will balance them with experienced players, because that invalidates the thousands of hours veterans have spent honing their craft.

I agree, except your words regarding PvE. Inexperienced players shouldn't match the results of experienced players in any game-mode. This would only trivialize the game and lead to an overall decrease of skill regarding the community. That's why in PvE balance should mainly be focused around encountered content instead of fruitlessly trying to "narrow the dps-gap"

I agree tho, that PvP-gameplay is more impacted by bad design-choices (like former brokensoul for example) due to it's competitive nature.

Oh I totally agree, and I think most of the endgame community does as evidenced by the mass exodus following U35. I just meant that in PVE it doesn't particularly harm other players as there isn't as much direct competition apart from the top end score pushing groups, and no level of accessibility is going to allow inexperienced players to jump to that level.

Whereas in PVP we've had things like oakensoul (your example), where inexperienced players were able to output the same damage spamming one skill (molten whip on DK) with the same survivability as an experienced player doing a perfect rotation using two bars of skills. This directly impacted other players as it gave an unreasonable amount of power to inexperienced players for the effort they put in, in a competitive environment where skill and knowledge are supposed to give you an advantage.