Magicka Sorcerer PvP Domination!

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.

There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol

No joke, a video would say more. It's easy enough to say how powerful something feels but can we see a sorc face tank a 12 man, escape a dc negate with bomb, and kill multiple high level non sorcs in an xv1 ?

If it's doing some of all of those I'd say it's more so bronen

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.

There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol

No joke, a video would say more. It's easy enough to say how powerful something feels but can we see a sorc face tank a 12 man, escape a dc negate with bomb, and kill multiple high level non sorcs in an xv1 ?

If it's doing some of all of those I'd say it's more so bronen

No class can face tank a 12 man while in full damage gear. I'm sorry but you're exaggerating. Maybe a 12 man of complete newbies who only light attack can be possible, and maybe that meme max HP arcanist build using the shield ult can, but that ain't a full damage build either.

Trust, you'll see those sorc videos tanking multiple people coming out soon. Pretty much every good player on PC right now agree Sorc is overperforming and unkillable. I don't think I want to explain this to you further cause you seem to be refusing to accept the fact until you get your hands on the update yourself lol.

FlopsyPrince

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

I am sure my pet sorc will still get stomped in PvP. But then I suck at PvP!

HowlKimchi

Bushido2513 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

well, it's not that sorc is completely op. the class just joins the tankiness of some other classes. whether that's good or bad can be decided by others, the fact that there was a buff is perfectly ok.

Sorc is the tankiest spec right now, there’s no contest. It’s also the only spec that can almost negate a Jerall build.

Giving it 10% max mag was more than enough to elevate it to S tier. Giving it a burst heal under a shield elevated it to OP status. Here is a screenshot of a sorc tanking 4k DPS without Vigor:



There are also numerous complaints about Sorc tanking whole groups of people in Cyro too.

What’s absurd is people like me who tested the shield on PTS opposed the change, but so many sorc mains wanted it to go thru when they didn’t even participate in the PTS lol… What is the point then? You don’t need to see actual data to know this shield change would be broken. It defeats the whole concept of tradeoff and puts Sorc in the same boat as NB being stealthy and having amazing heals/tankiness 🤣🤣

tanking 4k dps doesn't seem particularly impressive to me, all the other classes can do that too, but maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.

I should also mention that I play no procc, no cp. The game may be a little more balanced, although sorc has always benefited well from a pure stat build. but at least you can't take as much as in the cp campaign.

Tanking 4k DPS without Vigor, which was mandatory on Sorc, is not impressive? Ok…

do we have a maths problem here? 4 k dps is 20k damage in 5 seconds, that was perfectly possible before with a shield build and every other class with a burst heal can do that without any problems

You do realize that it was a 5 minute fight? 4k dps in a 5 min duel, and a build made for damage was able to sustain receiving that kind of dps without vigor. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?

The fact that sorcs can now facetank that kind of damage on a damage build, while still having the mobility to pick and choose fights makes them factually overpowered and the 1vX class this patch.

So I've come across this kind of view before and it appears you're looking at the how and not the outcome. Yes there is something to be said for the how because sometimes when something is op you start to realize that it allows for too much freedom.

I can see both sides of this but for me I mostly focus on the outcome and the overall. What you're describing is a very tanky player character that can dish out damage with high mobility. What I will say is that one could liken this to nb in that it has high damage but we're just switching out mobility to a minor degree (nb has built in speed buffs and shade).

I've fought all kinds of player characters regardless of class that have damage, speed, high defense. I remember not too long ago fighting a procanist that could keep up with me (my sorc is built with some speed) and deal damage to me in a way which made me have to keep moving away (I'm fairly tanky) and who wasn't taking much damage from me.

There's lots of things that go into this but my point is that to me if that same player jumps on a sorc they would be doing something similar. Sure they have mobility but generally speaking I don't have a problem catching people and I also don't have a problem if they run from me and I choose to withdraw.

What I'm saying is that so far that I've seen, nobody has described a situation that can't in a similar way already happen in the game.


People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.

So for me I really don't care which op class or build someone hops on, I'll just deal with it in one way or another. Can't beat everyone, can't catch everyone, can't kill everyone. It's just a game, have fun and move on.

That's a long way of saying you don't care about balance.

I have a lot I want to say but I dont wanna write an essay so ill just bullet some points.

• The main thing is player skill is something that shouldn't be a factor when balancing. A skilled player using a magcro will *** on a crappy player using a nightblade, but we all know necros are waaaay underpowered right now.
• The meta proc arcanist build you use in your example is actually a poor example because it was the OP build last patch and was nerfed (still needs some nerfs imo)
• people have been describing situations that have never been possible in the game before, and that's tanking 7k dps without vigor on a full damage build, i dont know why you keep downplaying that.

Highlighting this:

People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.

I kinda dont see the point of talking about class balance with you if that's how you view things. You are correct that people will always play the meta fotm builds, and yeah those buillds will surely be effective, but I dont want the fotm build to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other builds which the max mag hardened ward sorc currently is right now. OP as a term has been mad overused these days. It means overpowered which is different from effective/strong. overpowered means it is too strong.

It's not that I don't care about balance. It's that ZOS doesn't care about balance. So if they aren't worried about it then yes I'll give my opinion but it's going to come from the view that I just tend to understand who I'm dealing with.

In that context I don't see the sky as falling and I find it interesting that anyone thinks this is interesting as if it's an unusual pattern for the game is all.

Also yes I don't really care much about tanking DPS with vigor or without vigor because the game simply is not balanced around a 1v1. Why use a metric that ZOS clearly doesn't care about?

I am also definitely gonna play the cards i am dealt with, and yes this isnt the first time that something grossly OP has been allowed by ZOS before (DK war flashbacks), but the spirit of this discussion is not "zos doesnt care, so talking about it doesnt matter." At least for me. I am talking about it because I dont like that it is OP and I believe it's bad for the game that the current hardened ward exists.

Anyway, based on your latest replies, you seem to somewhat agree that the current sorc is OP. You just don't care about it because you believe you are skilled enough to stalemate/overcome/avoid the offending build and it's just another "challenge" to face. I get it. I personally don't hop on the fotm build and I enjoy killing people who are just meta chasing. However, hardened ward is truly OP in its current form, and while I can handle it, I believe it's not healthy for the game and is why I'm personally advocating for a nerf.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.

There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol

No joke, a video would say more. It's easy enough to say how powerful something feels but can we see a sorc face tank a 12 man, escape a dc negate with bomb, and kill multiple high level non sorcs in an xv1 ?

If it's doing some of all of those I'd say it's more so bronen

No class can face tank a 12 man while in full damage gear. I'm sorry but you're exaggerating. Maybe a 12 man of complete newbies who only light attack can be possible, and maybe that meme max HP arcanist build using the shield ult can, but that ain't a full damage build either.

Trust, you'll see those sorc videos tanking multiple people coming out soon. Pretty much every good player on PC right now agree Sorc is overperforming and unkillable. I don't think I want to explain this to you further cause you seem to be refusing to accept the fact until you get your hands on the update yourself lol.

I mean you don't have to explain it, I get your point and it makes sense to me.

What I was trying to illustrate was how far out of wack things would have to be for me to say this buff is truly affecting or ruining my experience. As you can see it would take quite a bit and I base that on how off balance the game is already to me.

So if seems like it's not that we disagree but just that we have very different thresholds for what's worth really talking about.

And you're right I might get there after the patch and if it stays bad for a long time but I think people will just have their fun for a bit and move on like they always do and next patch ZOS will rinse repeat with something else similar

It's like having one of those djinns that grants your wish but in a messed up way. You get used to it lol

Bushido2513

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

well, it's not that sorc is completely op. the class just joins the tankiness of some other classes. whether that's good or bad can be decided by others, the fact that there was a buff is perfectly ok.

Sorc is the tankiest spec right now, there’s no contest. It’s also the only spec that can almost negate a Jerall build.

Giving it 10% max mag was more than enough to elevate it to S tier. Giving it a burst heal under a shield elevated it to OP status. Here is a screenshot of a sorc tanking 4k DPS without Vigor:



There are also numerous complaints about Sorc tanking whole groups of people in Cyro too.

What’s absurd is people like me who tested the shield on PTS opposed the change, but so many sorc mains wanted it to go thru when they didn’t even participate in the PTS lol… What is the point then? You don’t need to see actual data to know this shield change would be broken. It defeats the whole concept of tradeoff and puts Sorc in the same boat as NB being stealthy and having amazing heals/tankiness 🤣🤣

tanking 4k dps doesn't seem particularly impressive to me, all the other classes can do that too, but maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.

I should also mention that I play no procc, no cp. The game may be a little more balanced, although sorc has always benefited well from a pure stat build. but at least you can't take as much as in the cp campaign.

Tanking 4k DPS without Vigor, which was mandatory on Sorc, is not impressive? Ok…

do we have a maths problem here? 4 k dps is 20k damage in 5 seconds, that was perfectly possible before with a shield build and every other class with a burst heal can do that without any problems

You do realize that it was a 5 minute fight? 4k dps in a 5 min duel, and a build made for damage was able to sustain receiving that kind of dps without vigor. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?

The fact that sorcs can now facetank that kind of damage on a damage build, while still having the mobility to pick and choose fights makes them factually overpowered and the 1vX class this patch.

So I've come across this kind of view before and it appears you're looking at the how and not the outcome. Yes there is something to be said for the how because sometimes when something is op you start to realize that it allows for too much freedom.

I can see both sides of this but for me I mostly focus on the outcome and the overall. What you're describing is a very tanky player character that can dish out damage with high mobility. What I will say is that one could liken this to nb in that it has high damage but we're just switching out mobility to a minor degree (nb has built in speed buffs and shade).

I've fought all kinds of player characters regardless of class that have damage, speed, high defense. I remember not too long ago fighting a procanist that could keep up with me (my sorc is built with some speed) and deal damage to me in a way which made me have to keep moving away (I'm fairly tanky) and who wasn't taking much damage from me.

There's lots of things that go into this but my point is that to me if that same player jumps on a sorc they would be doing something similar. Sure they have mobility but generally speaking I don't have a problem catching people and I also don't have a problem if they run from me and I choose to withdraw.

What I'm saying is that so far that I've seen, nobody has described a situation that can't in a similar way already happen in the game.


People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.

So for me I really don't care which op class or build someone hops on, I'll just deal with it in one way or another. Can't beat everyone, can't catch everyone, can't kill everyone. It's just a game, have fun and move on.

That's a long way of saying you don't care about balance.

I have a lot I want to say but I dont wanna write an essay so ill just bullet some points.

• The main thing is player skill is something that shouldn't be a factor when balancing. A skilled player using a magcro will *** on a crappy player using a nightblade, but we all know necros are waaaay underpowered right now.
• The meta proc arcanist build you use in your example is actually a poor example because it was the OP build last patch and was nerfed (still needs some nerfs imo)
• people have been describing situations that have never been possible in the game before, and that's tanking 7k dps without vigor on a full damage build, i dont know why you keep downplaying that.

Highlighting this:

People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.

I kinda dont see the point of talking about class balance with you if that's how you view things. You are correct that people will always play the meta fotm builds, and yeah those buillds will surely be effective, but I dont want the fotm build to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other builds which the max mag hardened ward sorc currently is right now. OP as a term has been mad overused these days. It means overpowered which is different from effective/strong. overpowered means it is too strong.

It's not that I don't care about balance. It's that ZOS doesn't care about balance. So if they aren't worried about it then yes I'll give my opinion but it's going to come from the view that I just tend to understand who I'm dealing with.

In that context I don't see the sky as falling and I find it interesting that anyone thinks this is interesting as if it's an unusual pattern for the game is all.

Also yes I don't really care much about tanking DPS with vigor or without vigor because the game simply is not balanced around a 1v1. Why use a metric that ZOS clearly doesn't care about?

I am also definitely gonna play the cards i am dealt with, and yes this isnt the first time that something grossly OP has been allowed by ZOS before (DK war flashbacks), but the spirit of this discussion is not "zos doesnt care, so talking about it doesnt matter." At least for me. I am talking about it because I dont like that it is OP and I believe it's bad for the game that the current hardened ward exists.

Anyway, based on your latest replies, you seem to somewhat agree that the current sorc is OP. You just don't care about it because you believe you are skilled enough to stalemate/overcome/avoid the offending build and it's just another "challenge" to face. I get it. I personally don't hop on the fotm build and I enjoy killing people who are just meta chasing. However, hardened ward is truly OP in its current form, and while I can handle it, I believe it's not healthy for the game and is why I'm personally advocating for a nerf.

I would say that I generally share your opinion about ward and what it's doing to the game. I do appreciate people speaking up about things.

I think it's also important to raise awareness to what this game has become and how it got there and how threads like these are definitely getting ignored.

Also to some degree I wonder what's the point of saying see I did all this testing and tried to warn people when clearly nobody that mattered was listening and the same thing would have happened with or without feedback?

I mean I guess I just wish we could move out of the cycle of they change stuff, players give every kind of feedback, they still change it, players give upset feedback, they randomly change it or something else next patch, players shift to being upset at that change, cycle starts over.

I need I if you like that cycle then more power to you. I just think there's some value in seeing the game for what it is and speaking of these changes under that lens

Jsmalls

My PvP perspective from the last week:

1vXing Other Sorcs has gotten a lot harder, used to be able to burst them down much quicker. The skill floor has definitely been raised with this change.

GvGing Other Sorcs seems mostly the same. They can't handle 2-3 people with LoS or running away. Same as most classes. This aspect of the skill floor seems intact since it involves positioning more than tankiness.

Xv1ing Other Sorcs, definitely is "harder" really depends who is attacking them with me (random or in Comms). When they have LoS they are extremely hard to kill (this is the same for most classes but Sorc previously was the easiest in my opinion because their defense scales poorly with multiple attackers)

My biggest harp is Sorc population has increased soooo much. There are so many Sorcs running around. And Sorcs are probably the deadliest ranged class which makes it feel like you can blow up with curse, frag mages, and wrath spam at any moment.

Shield change is Overtuned, no doubt. But it's not FAR off from being balanced.

xylena_lazarow

LET IT BAKE!

Forget Sorcs for a minute, someone actually said this without irony. What.

My comrade in Cyrodiil, there's nothing left to bake. The food is ash, and the kitchen is on fire.

LOOK MOM IM A 1VXER NOW!

Sure it can be fun to dump gasoline on the fire, until someone bigger and stronger throws you into the flames.

Bushido2513

Jsmalls wrote: »

My PvP perspective from the last week:

1vXing Other Sorcs has gotten a lot harder, used to be able to burst them down much quicker. The skill floor has definitely been raised with this change.

GvGing Other Sorcs seems mostly the same. They can't handle 2-3 people with LoS or running away. Same as most classes. This aspect of the skill floor seems intact since it involves positioning more than tankiness.

Xv1ing Other Sorcs, definitely is "harder" really depends who is attacking them with me (random or in Comms). When they have LoS they are extremely hard to kill (this is the same for most classes but Sorc previously was the easiest in my opinion because their defense scales poorly with multiple attackers)

My biggest harp is Sorc population has increased soooo much. There are so many Sorcs running around. And Sorcs are probably the deadliest ranged class which makes it feel like you can blow up with curse, frag mages, and wrath spam at any moment.

Shield change is Overtuned, no doubt. But it's not FAR off from being balanced.

I'll try not to jump on this feedback just because it aligns with what I thought might happen. I still want to watch this develop over time but I do appreciate that there is some feedback that supports the idea that I was getting at where overall this change isn't great but isn't all that remarkable when the bigger picture is taken into account and some time has passed.

Bushido2513

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LET IT BAKE!

Forget Sorcs for a minute, someone actually said this without irony. What.

My comrade in Cyrodiil, there's nothing left to bake. The food is ash, and the kitchen is on fire.

LOOK MOM IM A 1VXER NOW!

Sure it can be fun to dump gasoline on the fire, until someone bigger and stronger throws you into the flames.

Or sometimes you need to know when to look ZOS straight in the eye glaring at them while you reach behind you and grab your bag of marshmallows and say is that it?

At some point this game is a meme and you can either get the joke and have fun or be unhappy with it.

When it was dks I laughed when I got triple leaped.

When it was Wardens I didn't laugh as much because I never bought the dlc to get snow treaders but I considered it, luckily it died down on its own.

When it's Nb I laugh when at one point I'm standing alone and next I'm surrounded or just looking at a death recap. This has been a thing past and present.

Plar just entertains me because I laugh that I'm really trying to lose just this one skill.

Arcanist, man Arcanist kind of made me not like the color green but a friend made me laugh because she said the been look like a drunk person trying to aim at a toilet and I enjoy saying to my friends "squid hands!" When someone throws the flail at me or whatever it's called.

Necro, well that's just said, not much to enjoy watching class abuse like that.

Sorc, I'm probably just going to laugh when I get hit by multiple overload curses and frags like never before. Not even gonna bother trying to kill one for the most part until the flavor of the month players cool down.


So there's plenty of fun to be had depending on your perspective

TechMaybeHic

Been doing some looking at the build editors, and I can't say I think what they did is totally bad but the high mag scaling is what makes it go too far. Numbers do not seem as bad otherwise

Bushido2513

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

katorga

Meanwhile what is actually going on is NB Domination.

Stam Sorc is stronger than Mag, btw.

Bushido2513

katorga wrote: »

Meanwhile what is actually going on is NB Domination.

We can report no change captain

katorga wrote: »

Stam Sorc is stronger than Mag, btw.

Well it's described in the video description above that they were able to trade fights but I think it's going to depend a lot on build and the players on each end both in open world and 1v1.

I will say that I have yet to see a magsorc x that shreds the same way I've seen a stamsorc x but that's also for fairly obvious reasons to some degree.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)

2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.

3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread

Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.

Turtle_Bot

Jsmalls wrote: »

My PvP perspective from the last week:

1vXing Other Sorcs has gotten a lot harder, used to be able to burst them down much quicker. The skill floor has definitely been raised with this change.

GvGing Other Sorcs seems mostly the same. They can't handle 2-3 people with LoS or running away. Same as most classes. This aspect of the skill floor seems intact since it involves positioning more than tankiness.

Xv1ing Other Sorcs, definitely is "harder" really depends who is attacking them with me (random or in Comms). When they have LoS they are extremely hard to kill (this is the same for most classes but Sorc previously was the easiest in my opinion because their defense scales poorly with multiple attackers)

My biggest harp is Sorc population has increased soooo much. There are so many Sorcs running around. And Sorcs are probably the deadliest ranged class which makes it feel like you can blow up with curse, frag mages, and wrath spam at any moment.

Shield change is Overtuned, no doubt. But it's not FAR off from being balanced.

This has been pretty much my experience in open world PvP as well and lines up with exactly what I was saying for this buff way back in week 1 of the PTS.

The shield is no doubt overtuned (this is something I never disagreed with) and COULD use adjusting, but it is really not that far off from being in the right spot compared to everything else in the game and definitely not to a crazy point where the class needs another deleting like every other time sorc has gotten a buff in the past.
The overtuned part is quite literally due to how much mag can potentially be stacked on sorcerer when building into it (just like health wardens and polar wind) and I have given more than enough detailed explanations of what I feel is one of the best ways to go about solving that issue.

Turtle_Bot

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Been doing some looking at the build editors, and I can't say I think what they did is totally bad but the high mag scaling is what makes it go too far. Numbers do not seem as bad otherwise

This is what I've been saying, a more "regular" build of ~40k mag has 10-11k shields and 3-4k heals, precisely where this ability should be sitting (the 13-15k total tooltip).

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)

2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.

3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread

Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.

Part of what I appreciated about the video was

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)

2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.

3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread

Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.

Well I think there's some good points here. The word unkillable has been thrown around a lot here and you can see that it's not exactly the case. In the recount we can see that some deaths went back and forth with magsorc on magsorc and magsorc against other specs.

I feel like he was being straight up about how he was able to compete due to the buff and that he had a good number of wins and losses.

There were still stalemates, just not as much to the degree as some made it seem like we'd be getting.

I'm still looking at how this develops but I wanted to share and appreciate the context.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)

2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.

3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread

Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.

Part of what I appreciated about the video was

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)

2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.

3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread

Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.

Well I think there's some good points here. The word unkillable has been thrown around a lot here and you can see that it's not exactly the case. In the recount we can see that some deaths went back and forth with magsorc on magsorc and magsorc against other specs.

I feel like he was being straight up about how he was able to compete due to the buff and that he had a good number of wins and losses.

There were still stalemates, just not as much to the degree as some made it seem like we'd be getting.

I'm still looking at how this develops but I wanted to share and appreciate the context.

I can assure you, when a magsorc vs magsorc dies, it’s usually because of 2 things (which you may already know, but others might not)

1) Lower shield uptime
2) Lower defensive mechanics usage

It applies to magsorc vs other classes too. I’m not saying the change will make a complete newbie god tier. They’ll most likely still die within a minute. However, it will raise the floor enough to achieve this effect:

1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die

The person making that video falls within the above average category. He has a much better chance of surviving now, and can kill top tier players. Of course, top tier players will kill him more frequently in a mirror match up, but it will be difficult for those who don’t play the same build.

It’s the same for last patch’s meta too. Meta builds bridged the gap so much you couldn’t be competitive unless you ran them.

Cast_El

I am a main templar and my second is a mag sorc, I like to walk around with sorc some time. I did some duel in ic and cyro and it felt like a templar duel: taking forever to kill each other and the first one making a mistake die. We did not finish those duel, it was too long.

My magsorc build is an hold Malcom build: 3 shiled stacking, alficq, chudan, ancien grace, DDF. But it feel like one or 2 shield is enough. I don't play vampire on this build, and I could get out of execute range multiple times by spamming harden ward alone,then streak away.
It is too strong, I am not sure I will keep the other shield,I need to test it out.

I made some fight we were 3 against 12yellow and 20 reds, And using all those shiled, and using I didn't die.last patch I would have been dead for ages.

Cast_El

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

And yes, you should not expose people. I could exposed some streamers as well, running away avoiding me, call some friends and zerging me. But I don't think exposing is a good behavior to have.

Zabagad

StaticWave wrote: »

1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die

Just my view for Cyro - not duelling:

1) Isn't that a good thing, that "beginners" can survive better now on a sorc too and they don't have to play Cloak-NB or a tanky DK/Warden to survive longer then 3s?
2) I like that very much I can fight them longer and learn more and have more fun - before I still try to escape or die.
3) First part ok and it's like (#2) - second part maybe there is a the problem
4) Not true - but I know what you mean. But this is something which were almost always the case. Now "we" need maybe 6 ppl (from #2 and #3) to get a kill instead only 4-5 before.

Overall I see some problems with 3b) and that some of the tot tier players don't like that and now cry now "Sorc OP" like they cried before "DK OP" or "NB OP" or whatever the OP-class was.

So - I still accept that the changes are a bit to much - and I'm still fine if they change that heal to HoT or whatever - but at least for 90% of the player base in Cyro I don't see such a big problem like you see for toptier-duelling... (which I understand)

StaticWave

Zabagad wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die

Just my view for Cyro - not duelling:

1) Isn't that a good thing, that "beginners" can survive better now on a sorc too and they don't have to play Cloak-NB or a tanky DK/Warden to survive longer then 3s?
2) I like that very much I can fight them longer and learn more and have more fun - before I still try to escape or die.
3) First part ok and it's like (#2) - second part maybe there is a the problem
4) Not true - but I know what you mean. But this is something which were almost always the case. Now "we" need maybe 6 ppl (from #2 and #3) to get a kill instead only 4-5 before.

Overall I see some problems with 3b) and that some of the tot tier players don't like that and now cry now "Sorc OP" like they cried before "DK OP" or "NB OP" or whatever the OP-class was.

So - I still accept that the changes are a bit to much - and I'm still fine if they change that heal to HoT or whatever - but at least for 90% of the player base in Cyro I don't see such a big problem like you see for toptier-duelling... (which I understand)

@Zabagad I’ll address your 1st and last point below:

1) It can be a good thing, but you need to understand that the problem I’ve been trying to point out is magSorc using it as its only defense.

The most effective magSorc build right now is stacking 50k-60k magicka and slotting only Ward as your defensive ability. Now it becomes a crutch, which is fine, but it’s a double edged sword. On one hand, it frees up GCD for you and let players manage their defensive rotation easier. This is beneficial for good players as they can be more offensive, and also beneficial for beginners as they can delay the need to learn a defensive rotation. On the other hand, it being too effective compared to a traditional defensive rotation (rotating several HoTs) means beginners don’t have a chance to practice their defensive rotation, which will also not translate well when playing other classes.

You could see this with prenerf Oakensoul. It gave you so many buffs that you didn’t need to micromanage them anymore. It made 1 bar builds super competitive and let beginner players compete. But it was also a double edged sword because beginner players relied on it and didn’t have the chance to practice keeping up their buffs.


2) People with an ego will always refuse to take an L in games. That’s just how it is, regardless of whether a class is strong or weak. But you have to admit that there is a problem when a player who’s never won or has a really low win rate vs a better player, now suddenly becomes really hard to kill and ends up have a good chance of killing them. Now the better player feels like he needs to run the same build to be competitive.

It’s the same problem as Master DW/Vate Ice/Maarselok stamsorc last patch. You slot that build, and you can now punch 1 tier above your own. Average players in that build can now regularly kill above average players, and above average players can now regularly kill top tier players in a normal stat build. People ended up having to run that build to be competitive, and you saw how many complaints about that lol.

Oblivion_Protocol

Last night, I entered a BG with my max mag sorc with Crafty Alfiq, Wretched Vitality, Asylum Lightning staff, and Death Dealer’s. Pretty standard loadout, other than the staff, I’d say. I get up to about 53k Magicka, and I know that’s overkill but I wanted to try it out for a bit.

The result? I’ve literally never gotten more than 15 kills in a BG in the entire four years I’ve been playing ESO, but in this BG, I doubled that number on a magsorc with 31 kills. Hardened Ward made me damn near immortal. I only died when a NB hit me with a lucky gank twice.

Again, I’m an intermediate player. And I survived multiple 1vX situations with just Ward and Streak, only to come back and delete people.

The worst part? It isn’t even a finished build. None of the gear is gold. I’m not a vampire with Undeath. I don’t have the Bastion CP, nor do I have any defensive blue CP yet because I’m only at CP level 728. Hell, I don’t even have Major Resolve on this build. And I was shrugging off damage like Superman in a gunfight.

By the way, there was another Magsorc on my team who ended the match with 34 kills. We virtually carried the whole match.

I love Magsorc. It’s my favorite thing to play in ESO and I’m going to continue to play it. But I’m not blind. Hardened Ward absolutely needs some kind of adjustment.

RetPing

Bushido2513 wrote: »

G
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

Could not watch more then 30sec, could not stand all that bunny hopping.

StaticWave

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Last night, I entered a BG with my max mag sorc with Crafty Alfiq, Wretched Vitality, Asylum Lightning staff, and Death Dealer’s. Pretty standard loadout, other than the staff, I’d say. I get up to about 53k Magicka, and I know that’s overkill but I wanted to try it out for a bit.

The result? I’ve literally never gotten more than 15 kills in a BG in the entire four years I’ve been playing ESO, but in this BG, I doubled that number on a magsorc with 31 kills. Hardened Ward made me damn near immortal. I only died when a NB hit me with a lucky gank twice.

Again, I’m an intermediate player. And I survived multiple 1vX situations with just Ward and Streak, only to come back and delete people.

The worst part? It isn’t even a finished build. None of the gear is gold. I’m not a vampire with Undeath. I don’t have the Bastion CP, nor do I have any defensive blue CP yet because I’m only at CP level 728. Hell, I don’t even have Major Resolve on this build. And I was shrugging off damage like Superman in a gunfight.

By the way, there was another Magsorc on my team who ended the match with 34 kills. We virtually carried the whole match.

I love Magsorc. It’s my favorite thing to play in ESO and I’m going to continue to play it. But I’m not blind. Hardened Ward absolutely needs some kind of adjustment.

You don’t even need Major Resolve, that’s the funny part lol. Shield is literally so strong when you stack 50k+ mag it’s unbelievable. Most magsorcs run 5 light armor, so with Chudan and Minor Resolve they have about 20k armor on the front bar. Ur getting fully penned anyways lol.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

I can assure you, when a magsorc vs magsorc dies, it’s usually because of 2 things (which you may already know, but others might not)

1) Lower shield uptime
2) Lower defensive mechanics usage

It applies to magsorc vs other classes too. I’m not saying the change will make a complete newbie god tier. They’ll most likely still die within a minute. However, it will raise the floor enough to achieve this effect:

1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die

The person making that video falls within the above average category. He has a much better chance of surviving now, and can kill top tier players. Of course, top tier players will kill him more frequently in a mirror match up, but it will be difficult for those who don’t play the same build.

It’s the same for last patch’s meta too. Meta builds bridged the gap so much you couldn’t be competitive unless you ran them.

And that was sort of my point in that in the context of how imbalanced the game is as a whole I'm ok with the above because it doesn't really reach god tier. Is it annoying, of course! Does it lack tasteful balance, absolutely!

But is it reasonable within the game as messed up as it is, to me yeah.

Am I betting on the idea that people will eventually move on and things will somewhat normalize down the road? Yeah but I admit that may or may not happen and we could end up with a horrible patch of just sorc sorc and more sorc though that takes time to see, at least for me.

But hey overall at least we know sorcs can die in a 1v1 so that's something and what I was trying to make sure was still noted as we have so much talk of unkillable.

Bushido2513

Cast_El wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.

Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.

First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.

Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.

Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.

Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.

Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.

6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.

7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.

9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.

10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.

11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.

13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.

14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.

15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.

16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.

And yes, you should not expose people. I could exposed some streamers as well, running away avoiding me, call some friends and zerging me. But I don't think exposing is a good behavior to have.

I don't really believe in exposing as much as I do ZOS' policy of no naming and shaming. This to me was just a video about dueling and the original poster didn't seem to be toxic but more just having fun and giving an honest recounting of his experience.

His language about personality can be taken different ways but in the video he was just dissatisfied with the perceived lack of sportsmanship which I can understand to some degree as I do wish people sometimes had better attitudes overall in this game.

Bushido2513

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Last night, I entered a BG with my max mag sorc with Crafty Alfiq, Wretched Vitality, Asylum Lightning staff, and Death Dealer’s. Pretty standard loadout, other than the staff, I’d say. I get up to about 53k Magicka, and I know that’s overkill but I wanted to try it out for a bit.

The result? I’ve literally never gotten more than 15 kills in a BG in the entire four years I’ve been playing ESO, but in this BG, I doubled that number on a magsorc with 31 kills. Hardened Ward made me damn near immortal. I only died when a NB hit me with a lucky gank twice.

Again, I’m an intermediate player. And I survived multiple 1vX situations with just Ward and Streak, only to come back and delete people.

The worst part? It isn’t even a finished build. None of the gear is gold. I’m not a vampire with Undeath. I don’t have the Bastion CP, nor do I have any defensive blue CP yet because I’m only at CP level 728. Hell, I don’t even have Major Resolve on this build. And I was shrugging off damage like Superman in a gunfight.

By the way, there was another Magsorc on my team who ended the match with 34 kills. We virtually carried the whole match.

I love Magsorc. It’s my favorite thing to play in ESO and I’m going to continue to play it. But I’m not blind. Hardened Ward absolutely needs some kind of adjustment.

So here's the question though, do you feel like people tried to kill you? By that I mean were they chasing the objective or chasing you? I'm not trying to take anything away from your experience, I just think bgs can vary so wildly that people have to understand the details

For instance my kill count and survivability both usually go up in low mmr matches or matches where the other team is concerned less with dying that the object. On the other side my numbers go way down when I'm say facing a high mmr team that will ignore the objectives and go just for kills and know what they're doing.

So if you care to share I'd be interested in more details of the matchup.

Bushido2513

RetPing wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

G
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w

Could not watch more then 30sec, could not stand all that bunny hopping.

Honestly I'm pretty jealous of the hop, I don't do it particularly well myself and have definitely killed several players that do but have also found that it's somewhat effective in throwing off targeting in some cases.

Personally I just stay very mobile during a fight so I think I get similar results though I'd appreciate being able to compare.