Please update the base game motifs

Pixiepumpkin

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I disagree that these rules should be imposed on clients if they wish for something else. We are not talking about traffic rules here.

You can disagree, that is fine but the fact is the base game textures look EXTREMELY dated, especially to the new player/customer.

I'd prefer the game have continued growth, vs the long term player who has already invested thousands and is spending less.

Updated graphics keep the game fresh, and every popular MMORPG has updated them.

Anumaril

Hard agree. I'm tired of old cities, motifs, and characters looking soooo dated. They didn't have the resources, for example, to make Riften look the way it should've, but it could/should be revamped and brought up-to-date with the quality we see in other cities like Solitude or Leyawiin.

ElderSmitter

moo_2021 wrote: »

Can we have more of non gothic armor styles? E.g. modern clothing, aztecs or rajput?

You should check out Drowned Mariner. I love the Hat and wear it often.

Amottica

Zenimax has made changes to motifs including base game designs. It led to complaints from players that it changed the look they chose for their character.

Pixiepumpkin

And for every person that complained about the new graphics, there were 1000 more silent voices that were appreciative the game was seeing updates to old content to ensure it maintains relevancy for the future.

LesserCircle

No, just make new ones like they do sometimes with the ancestral versions.

Pixiepumpkin

LesserCircle wrote: »

No, just make new ones like they do sometimes with the ancestral versions.

But that does nothing to keep the old game from looking stale. I personally have no issues with making new outfits and keeping the old ones, as long as old NPC models are updated to new textures along with base game graphics.

Their is already a massive visual discrepancy between vanilla game assets and assets made over the past 6 years or so. If they do not update old graphics, this game will have a shortened lifespan because it will not attract as many new players as a modern game or an MMO being actively updated (which shows the customer a commitment by the development studio).

freespirit

Are you guys that say the base game has a "jarring" difference in looks playing in ultra hd or 4k?

I ask because I just don't see this "massive" difference, I actually find some of the new zones too bright and having unrealistic colouring.

Now this could also be because I'm old and my eyesight isn't what it was.

What I do know however is my PC is old, already cannot handle 4k and I worry any significant graphical update would cause me more issues when playing the game I love!

I also detest all the new "exploding" mounts!!

#grumpyoldwoman 👵

AScarlato

I’d actually really like updated versions of the old redgard styles. Wonder why they removed those.

Trejgon

As an avid enjoyer of base game "dark elf" motiff, while I could see some improvements that could be made (higher resolution textures, update to dye channels to avert undyeable areas, some minor changes to avoid some yank with some of the pieces, and detachment of collars wrom the head of the character model so it does not twist and streatch with head movement), I also saw enough of the "newer" "higher quality" outfits, to know that modern motiffs are taking enough of design shortcuts, for ZOS to be extremely likely to flat out ruin that motiff had they ever tried to make a "remastered" version.

Pixiepumpkin

freespirit wrote: »

Are you guys that say the base game has a "jarring" difference in looks playing in ultra hd or 4k?

I ask because I just don't see this "massive" difference, I actually find some of the new zones too bright and having unrealistic colouring.

Now this could also be because I'm old and my eyesight isn't what it was.

What I do know however is my PC is old, already cannot handle 4k and I worry any significant graphical update would cause me more issues when playing the game I love!

I also detest all the new "exploding" mounts!!

#grumpyoldwoman 👵

I am running 2560x1440/2k and I see a "massive" difference.

Right click image, open in new tab. Click on image to see it larger. There is a jarring difference between base game and later game outfit textures.

Syldras

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

Darkstorne

I don't think they ever will, and I think the "ancestral" motifs are their olive branch here. It's like a fifth tier to all the base racial motifs, with modern mesh and texture work.

LunaFlora

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

i would love that.
really as long as we don't get another change like the Redguard motif it would probably be fine.

Amottica

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

That is not what is being asked for. What is being asked for is a complete retexture and remodeling with changes to both aesthetics and proportions.

So the discussion is not merely updating the resolution of anything.

Syldras

Amottica wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

That is not what is being asked for. What is being asked for is a complete retexture and remodeling with changes to both aesthetics and proportions.
So the discussion is not merely updating the resolution of anything.

It was the attempt to find a compromise.

TaSheen

Amottica wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

That is not what is being asked for. What is being asked for is a complete retexture and remodeling with changes to both aesthetics and proportions.

So the discussion is not merely updating the resolution of anything.

Wrong:

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I never said use the style I like. This thread is about increased texture resolution. The same outfit you wear would look better with a higher resolution. I used mine as an example becasuse of its higher resoultion newer textures.

You would benefit from the change, not lose out.

Remathilis

Darkstorne wrote: »

I don't think they ever will, and I think the "ancestral" motifs are their olive branch here. It's like a fifth tier to all the base racial motifs, with modern mesh and texture work.

It would have been nice if they didn't gate them behind antiquities and treasure maps, and then only have five (high elf, Nord, Breton, orc, Akavarii, and Reach/barbaric) with a sixth that you can't get (Imperial). They also flat gave up with it after Galen, so no ancestral Redguard, Khajiits, Dark elf, wood elf,.or Argonian.

The cost for these are still way too high (even for the base game zone ones) and all for a slightly nicer looking base game motif. If this was the "fix" for the base game motifs, it's not been a successful one.

TaSheen

Well, there are certainly those who don't feeel the cost is too high.

Amottica

TaSheen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand if some people don't want a complete redesign, because they like the old look. But if design stayed the same, and only resolution would be improved - would that be okay?

That is not what is being asked for. What is being asked for is a complete retexture and remodeling with changes to both aesthetics and proportions.

So the discussion is not merely updating the resolution of anything.

Wrong:

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I never said use the style I like. This thread is about increased texture resolution. The same outfit you wear would look better with a higher resolution. I used mine as an example becasuse of its higher resoultion newer textures.

You would benefit from the change, not lose out.

The quote below is pulled directly from the opening post of this thread. I looked at that opening post when made that response to make sure my comment was correct.

aspergalas4 wrote: »

I think some remodelling would be necessary for certain styles that are simply outdated when it comes to aesthetic and proportions.

So, it seems my comment is not wrong.
Regards,

LesserCircle

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

No, just make new ones like they do sometimes with the ancestral versions.

But that does nothing to keep the old game from looking stale. I personally have no issues with making new outfits and keeping the old ones, as long as old NPC models are updated to new textures along with base game graphics.

Their is already a massive visual discrepancy between vanilla game assets and assets made over the past 6 years or so. If they do not update old graphics, this game will have a shortened lifespan because it will not attract as many new players as a modern game or an MMO being actively updated (which shows the customer a commitment by the development studio).

It's an old game, accept it. I don't want the old game to be removed or "improved" as you people say, how did they improve jabs of flurry animation for example? what about grim focus permaglow or the removal of enemies with levels and an easy to follow storyline when we got one tamriel? Every change they make to something that already exists in the game is bad and it being an MMO we are left with no option to go back, so for new content and graphics you get new DLC and chapters.

ThelerisTelvanni

I honestly think updating the old styles is defenetly needed on the model and texture bace. But they have to retain the identety of the old ones. The Redguard exampel given did show that they had a compleatly different look afterwards. And I think that is why some dislike the idea.

I think the bacegame zones all need big updates on the visual side and in parts also on the traversal side. The Quests can stay the same. I honestly think adding for example the Bonemold style as well as the Dreug, Ashlander, Morgan Tong, Redoran, Hlaalu and Telvanni to the old Morrowind zones will make them imediatly far more immercive. And of cause the costumes too. Love the new Telvanni robe we got with Necrom! It also helps a lot, by making the NPC's look less like copys of each other.

Same goes for the other zones where we got new styles!

Pelanora

Amottica wrote: »

Zenimax has made changes to motifs including base game designs. It led to complaints from players that it changed the look they chose for their character.

They changed them. They could just update them to better quality of graphics.

I also wish it would just rain in rivenspire, but, that's something else.

TaSheen

Pelanora wrote: »

I also wish it would just rain in rivenspire, but, that's something else.

Rivenspire is nearly as rainy for me as Vvardenfell is.... but then I like it raining in game.

Carcamongus

Remathilis wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

I don't think they ever will, and I think the "ancestral" motifs are their olive branch here. It's like a fifth tier to all the base racial motifs, with modern mesh and texture work.

It would have been nice if they didn't gate them behind antiquities and treasure maps, and then only have five (high elf, Nord, Breton, orc, Akavarii, and Reach/barbaric) with a sixth that you can't get (Imperial). They also flat gave up with it after Galen, so no ancestral Redguard, Khajiits, Dark elf, wood elf,.or Argonian.

The cost for these are still way too high (even for the base game zone ones) and all for a slightly nicer looking base game motif. If this was the "fix" for the base game motifs, it's not been a successful one.

You can get an Imperial version, it just isn't an ancestral one: House Hexos, from the Deadlands. No triple-RNGeesus shenanigans, you get the motif from doing dailies (delves, specifically, if I remember correctly). So the devs could just as well release renewed versions of the other styles you mentioned without resorting to the detested treasure map system.

ArchMikem

EF321 wrote: »

No, thanks. No one wants to be forced to change their looks. Use newer motifs, if you like newer motifs. Don't use old motifs, if you don't like them.

I want to look like this.

The biggest problem is quality, not style. Many base game outfits are just flat textures being painted onto the character model. Newer styles have their own models that look like actual separate objects being attached to the Character.

LunaFlora

ArchMikem wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

No, thanks. No one wants to be forced to change their looks. Use newer motifs, if you like newer motifs. Don't use old motifs, if you don't like them.

I want to look like this.

The biggest problem is quality, not style. Many base game outfits are just flat textures being painted onto the character model. Newer styles have their own models that look like actual separate objects being attached to the Character.

yea and some people like those outfit styles.

i would love updated versions of the base game motifs but as new motifs instead of a replacement.

TheMajority

Don't see why this has to be an argument.

It's a game with a lot of motifs. We have room to keep the old motifs, but add new motifs in addition which are updated versions.

Seems to me that this is what was attempted with the ancestral motifs.

No reason to completely remove what other players are actively enjoying at this moment.

Let us think beyond ourselves. Don't insult the interests of others while seeking an improvement.

You do no justice to your request through hostility.

Sluggy

tincanman wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

... art/design school would not be necessary).

At the risk of appearing controversial and speaking as a scientist.....

/s

But, no thanks - I'm pretty sure Matt Firor commented many years ago about problems of updating older game assets: some love the idea and many more loathe it so it's better to just leave well enough alone.

I like the older stuff. I like the newer stuff, too.

Something for everyone.

Also, I'd prefer the designers spent their time and my money working on completely new stuff rather than trashing 'reimagining' their predecessors work.

And to add merit to this - speaking as a trained artist I don't know of any rules stating that merely increasing to an arbitrarily decided resolution is considered objectively better.

Pixiepumpkin

Sluggy wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

... art/design school would not be necessary).

At the risk of appearing controversial and speaking as a scientist.....

/s

But, no thanks - I'm pretty sure Matt Firor commented many years ago about problems of updating older game assets: some love the idea and many more loathe it so it's better to just leave well enough alone.

I like the older stuff. I like the newer stuff, too.

Something for everyone.

Also, I'd prefer the designers spent their time and my money working on completely new stuff rather than trashing 'reimagining' their predecessors work.

And to add merit to this - speaking as a trained artist I don't know of any rules stating that merely increasing to an arbitrarily decided resolution is considered objectively better.

I am a trained artist. Increasing texture resolution in fact objectively looks better. No different than looking at a DVD vs a blue ray on monitors of the same resoultion, HD looks better.

Here is another example. Blurred vision vs wearing glasses/contacts. The sharper image with glasses is objectively better than blurred vision.

Higher texture resolution means finer details, less artifacting, it simply looks better.