Please update the base game motifs

Pixiepumpkin

LesserCircle wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

No, just make new ones like they do sometimes with the ancestral versions.

But that does nothing to keep the old game from looking stale. I personally have no issues with making new outfits and keeping the old ones, as long as old NPC models are updated to new textures along with base game graphics.

Their is already a massive visual discrepancy between vanilla game assets and assets made over the past 6 years or so. If they do not update old graphics, this game will have a shortened lifespan because it will not attract as many new players as a modern game or an MMO being actively updated (which shows the customer a commitment by the development studio).

It's an old game, accept it. I don't want the old game to be removed or "improved" as you people say, how did they improve jabs of flurry animation for example? what about grim focus permaglow or the removal of enemies with levels and an easy to follow storyline when we got one tamriel? Every change they make to something that already exists in the game is bad and it being an MMO we are left with no option to go back, so for new content and graphics you get new DLC and chapters.

Wow is 10 years older and they are updating it, done it a couple times now in fact.

Do you want ESO to be relevant in 10 years? Or fall to the wayside in maintenance mode as players moved on to better looking games (because they are coming out)?

Kendaric

Not all players choose their games based on graphics quality alone. Granted, it has some influence but it's not the only or even a major reason for many people.

For example, I consider WoW's art style too cartoonish, but it's mostly the system and the setting/lore that keep me from playing it. ESO on the other hand, has lore I love (I've been a TES fan since TES I: Arena) and several systems that I like. It could have Morrowind's or Oblivion's graphics and I'd still play it.
Would I mind better texture quality? No, of course not. But it's not the main factor on which I base my decision whether to play the game or not.

Pixiepumpkin

I personally love wows lore, especially Arthas/The Lich King. I care little of ESOs lore outside of dwemer or sotha sil. I only played morrowind, it's the only Bethesda game I ever played. I loved it, but more for Jeremy Soules music than the gameplay. In fact I used to load it up on my Xbox and leave it on the title screen so that the call of magic would be on repeat, and then I'd turn the TV off. Played it through a pass labs x-250.5 and some Thiel CS 2.4s.

But the reason for updating textures is for new players. Anyone who loves the elder scrolls lore most likely already owns ESO and has for years.

So, the lore itself won't be the catalyst that brings people to the game, nor will their monetisation practices. It's going to take flash and bang to get new recruits, and graphics are a huge part of that.

Syldras

While to me personally it also feels that increasing texture resolution would be an improvement (probably for many people - but not all?), the big question for ZOS (and for every other company and publisher of a product) probably is: Is an update worthwile when it comes to earning money? Will it bring new customers, will it make people spend more? This would be relevant for them, not what individuals - professionally involved with graphics, arts and design or not - feel (as long as it doesn't make them spend more). Btw, artistically better doesn't neccessarily mean a bigger commercial success, unfortunately; look at the music business: There's so much best-selling stuff that becomes a hit, but from an artistic perspective, it's just... sad (and I'm not talking about disliking certain genres, I actually mean things like composition and singing skills).

Now, how relevant are base game graphics for ESO, when it comes to sales, for example new customers? I don't know, honestly. I can see some really disliking them, but how much time are newbies spending in these zones? Don't many just join in at the newest chapter? Or at one that they know from a single player TES game that they liked (I can, btw, really see ZOS releasing a chapter related to the place where TES6 will take place - either shortly before TES6's release as a kind of advertisement, or a few months after release, in hope that people who've finished TES6 will join ESO to see more of that place and culture)? What's also interesting is that some games that are commercially very successful today don't rely on modern graphics at all. Think of Minecraft, for example.

aspergalas4

Syldras wrote: »

While to me personally it also feels that increasing texture resolution would be an improvement (probably for many people - but not all?), the big question for ZOS (and for every other company and publisher of a product) probably is: Is an update worthwile when it comes to earning money? Will it bring new customers, will it make people spend more? This would be relevant for them, not what individuals - professionally involved with graphics, arts and design or not - feel (as long as it doesn't make them spend more). Btw, artistically better doesn't neccessarily mean a bigger commercial success, unfortunately; look at the music business: There's so much best-selling stuff that becomes a hit, but from an artistic perspective, it's just... sad (and I'm not talking about disliking certain genres, I actually mean things like composition and singing skills).

Now, how relevant are base game graphics for ESO, when it comes to sales, for example new customers? I don't know, honestly. I can see some really disliking them, but how much time are newbies spending in these zones? Don't many just join in at the newest chapter? Or at one that they know from a single player TES game that they liked (I can, btw, really see ZOS releasing a chapter related to the place where TES6 will take place - either shortly before TES6's release as a kind of advertisement, or a few months after release, in hope that people who've finished TES6 will join ESO to see more of that place and culture)? What's also interesting is that some games that are commercially very successful today don't rely on modern graphics at all. Think of Minecraft, for example.

You are approaching the issue in a way that enables or excuses the philosophy of the financial bottom line being the only thing that matters. Which has often acted as a millstone around this games development and why its formatted the way it is currently when it comes to monetisation.

Fact of the matter is the devs often try to portray that they love the game and TES Universe and have a passion for it, so it stands to reason based on that that these updates should be done out of love for their game not to earn money. They make enough money on other things, it's a simple and easy to implement (cheap) QoL request. It shouldn't even need to be negotiated like some kind of concession to the playerbase if that passion is really there.

Syldras

aspergalas4 wrote: »

You are approaching the issue in a way that enables or excuses the philosophy of the financial bottom line being the only thing that matters.

Where did I excuse anything? I even wrote that I find it really sad myself. But it's reality.

aspergalas4 wrote: »

Fact of the matter is the devs often try to portray that they love the game and TES Universe and have a passion for it, it stands to reason based on that that these updates should be done out of love for their game not to earn money. They make enough money on other things.

And then there's the usual marketing speech at every end of the year, of course everything is super, people loved everything very much, new systems were always a huge success, and content reductions in the upcoming year are never reductions, but "adjustments".

I don't deny that there are people involved that really love this game. I see this especially when it comes to artists - design of the new zones is often superb, when it comes to landscape and new assets. But we should not forget, that in the end, this is still a commercial product. And it's a truth that people high up in the managament ranks of a video game publisher might, even if it sounds strange at first, not even be interested in video games at all, but only in the money the enterprise brings - whether it's selling video games, cake or toilet paper. And these people are the decision makers in the end, not the level designer or the loremaster. And this is no criticism about ZOS in particular, it's just how it is, with many companies. Would I like it more if everyone involved would totally love this game? Of course.

aspergalas4

Syldras wrote: »

aspergalas4 wrote: »

You are approaching the issue in a way that enables or excuses the philosophy of the financial bottom line being the only thing that matters.

Where did I excuse anything? I even wrote that I find it really sad myself. But it's reality.

aspergalas4 wrote: »

Fact of the matter is the devs often try to portray that they love the game and TES Universe and have a passion for it, it stands to reason based on that that these updates should be done out of love for their game not to earn money. They make enough money on other things.

And then there's the usual marketing speech at every end of the year, of course everything is super, people loved everything very much, new systems were always a huge success, and content reductions in the upcoming year are never reductions, but "adjustments".

I don't deny that there are people involved that really love this game. I see this especially when it comes to artists - design of the new zones is often superb, when it comes to landscape and new assets. But we should not forget, that in the end, this is still a commercial product. And it's a truth that people high up in the managament ranks of a video game publisher might, even if it sounds strange at first, not even be interested in video games at all, but only in the money the enterprise brings - whether it's selling video games, cake or toilet paper. And these people are the decision makers in the end, not the level designer or the loremaster. And this is no criticism about ZOS in particular, it's just how it is, with many companies. Would I like it more if everyone involved would totally love this game? Of course.

Apologies I didn't mean to sound adversarial friend, I must of misread your words as I skimmed. I just think when we give too much leeway and just accept their way or the high way we don't get anywhere. We need to push for the changes we want to see because if left to developers on the current track record it's not looking likely.

Yeah fair point it's just such a shame when the things we want to see would probably serve their financial interests too in the big picture so everyone wins. Alas in this day and age it seems everyone must lose if a quick buck isn't to be made.

Pixiepumpkin

aspergalas4 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

While to me personally it also feels that increasing texture resolution would be an improvement (probably for many people - but not all?), the big question for ZOS (and for every other company and publisher of a product) probably is: Is an update worthwile when it comes to earning money? Will it bring new customers, will it make people spend more? This would be relevant for them, not what individuals - professionally involved with graphics, arts and design or not - feel (as long as it doesn't make them spend more). Btw, artistically better doesn't neccessarily mean a bigger commercial success, unfortunately; look at the music business: There's so much best-selling stuff that becomes a hit, but from an artistic perspective, it's just... sad (and I'm not talking about disliking certain genres, I actually mean things like composition and singing skills).

Now, how relevant are base game graphics for ESO, when it comes to sales, for example new customers? I don't know, honestly. I can see some really disliking them, but how much time are newbies spending in these zones? Don't many just join in at the newest chapter? Or at one that they know from a single player TES game that they liked (I can, btw, really see ZOS releasing a chapter related to the place where TES6 will take place - either shortly before TES6's release as a kind of advertisement, or a few months after release, in hope that people who've finished TES6 will join ESO to see more of that place and culture)? What's also interesting is that some games that are commercially very successful today don't rely on modern graphics at all. Think of Minecraft, for example.

You are approaching the issue in a way that enables or excuses the philosophy of the financial bottom line being the only thing that matters. Which has often acted as a millstone around this games development and why its formatted the way it is currently when it comes to monetisation.

Fact of the matter is the devs often try to portray that they love the game and TES Universe and have a passion for it, so it stands to reason based on that that these updates should be done out of love for their game not to earn money. They make enough money on other things, it's a simple and easy to implement (cheap) QoL request. It shouldn't even need to be negotiated like some kind of concession to the playerbase if that passion is really there.

Agreed. Could have not said it myself better.

ESO's monetization model sadly gets in the way of allowing ESO to reach its full potential. The money has been made, the profits are there and continued investment into the old base game only allows for greater future potential.

Sadly, most businesses these days think of short term profits, not long term...but MMORPGs have to be thought of in the long term, becasue we are still learning how long they can go on. Look at Everquest or WOW. I mean WOW is doing insanely well for a game that they started working on in late 1999.

Syldras

aspergalas4 wrote: »

Apologies I didn't mean to sound adversarial friend, I must of misread your words as I skimmed. I just think when we give too much leeway and just accept their way or the high way we don't get anywhere. We need to push for the changes we want to see because if left to developers on the current track record it's not looking likely.

Don't worry - and I fully agree. We have to try to voice our opinion and what we wish for this game. I'm just trying to estimate our chances. And unfortunately, I sometimes think that nothing we say will be taken seriously, as long as sales still go well.

I also found it interesting, when I read it a few years ago, who Zenimax's board of directors consisted of (now it's been dissolved for over 2 years, after Bethesda was bought by Microsoft). There was not a single person who was originally from the gaming industry. A few movie people, but also people who have no relation to entertainment, let alone video games, at all, but actually have a background in real estate or financial/banking stuff. While they probably understood things like financial planning and company management well, I doubt they really had any bigger knowledge in TES or ESO, let alone an emotional attachment to it.

FayJolyn

Maitsukas wrote: »

The change made to the Redguard motif wasn't very well received, so altering all of the really old motifs now would receive even worse criticism.

Old Redguard styles:

Redguard style today:

Oh wow those old Redguard motifs look great! Why would they change those? The current ones are so bland and boring.

I would love an HD version of the Khajiit & Bosmer motifs. I wear the Khajiit tier 3 helmet daily and the Dro-M'Atra just doesn't cut it as it doesn't have the mane and is too evil looking for my taste. I love that I can still see my characters eyes underneath the helmet. I just want something that fits better and sharper textures, please.

Jaraal

There's a 29 page thread about the uproar from a change ZOS made to the graphical appearance of one skill of one class. If they made retroactive changes to the armor look someone has had on their characters for the last 10 years, the forums would blow up.

Never going to happen, sorry.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

aspergalas4 wrote: »

I think it's about time that the base game motifs all received an update to match them up graphically to the newer motifs released in recent years. It is difficult to use them in the outfit station due to the jarring difference in quality. Comparing the base game motifs to new motifs and outfit styles released makes them look like they are from a different game.

I think many in the community want this and it would also be a step towards updating the base game zones as all the NPCs will have the updated armour designs also. Which would synergise well with some of the newer costumes and such being added into vanilla zone NPCs in recent years.

I am not advocating for a retexture only either, I think some remodelling would be necessary for certain styles that are simply outdated when it comes to aesthetic and proportions. Good example being the Dark Elf Motif. I hope ZOS eventually gets round to this, it would be great to hear if this is in the works.

Arent the ancestral motif exactly that? Granted they should pick up the pace and release others. They also have the benefit of leting people keep their older style if they wish while also allowing those who actually want to update their style to do so. For an exemple i have a khajiit stamplar (see youtube link bellow if you want to see) who use medium imperial 3 as a base for its outfit. I could have updated to house hexos but that style just dont fit as well so i chose to keep it that way.

https://youtu.be/6l1RVQ66xlI?si=y0roHwRPx4TPA17h