Did I miss the "Elemental Susceptibility Nerf"?

FirmamentOfStars · February 1

Maybe I did not read the patch notes correctly, but I somehow missed the nerf to elemental susceptibility.

The skill applies major breach on max range for 30 seconds plus every 7.5 seconds two times a direct damage hit (buffed immensely this patch), one of the most prevalent and actually best dots in the game for 4 seconds (really slight nerf with the update), a 5% damage taken modifier with minor vulnerability, a 5% less damage done modifier with minor maim and a 10% damage taken by critical strikes with minor brittle if holding an ice staff (most prevalent backbar weapon in PvP at the moment). This skill gets thrown left and right in PvP and is completely free of any cost.

So...where was the expected nerf to this skill. It is not like people did not complain about it.

Major_Toughness · February 1

Should cost the same if not more than NB's Mark Target.

RetPing · February 1

Why you want to nerf it?
Together with a Vate Ice staff it's such skillfull PvP.

StarOfElyon · February 1

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Maybe I did not read the patch notes correctly, but I somehow missed the nerf to elemental susceptibility.

The skill applies major breach on max range for 30 seconds plus every 7.5 seconds two times a direct damage hit (buffed immensely this patch), one of the most prevalent and actually best dots in the game for 4 seconds (really slight nerf with the update), a 5% damage taken modifier with minor vulnerability, a 5% less damage done modifier with minor maim and a 10% damage taken by critical strikes with minor brittle if holding an ice staff (most prevalent backbar weapon in PvP at the moment). This skill gets thrown left and right in PvP and is completely free of any cost.

So...where was the expected nerf to this skill. It is not like people did not complain about it.

Been saying since they added damage to it that it should have a cost.

Lalothen · February 1

Just make the susceptibility morph target monsters only. Problem solved.

i11ionward · February 1

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Maybe I did not read the patch notes correctly, but I somehow missed the nerf to elemental susceptibility.

The skill applies major breach on max range for 30 seconds plus every 7.5 seconds two times a direct damage hit (buffed immensely this patch), one of the most prevalent and actually best dots in the game for 4 seconds (really slight nerf with the update), a 5% damage taken modifier with minor vulnerability, a 5% less damage done modifier with minor maim and a 10% damage taken by critical strikes with minor brittle if holding an ice staff (most prevalent backbar weapon in PvP at the moment). This skill gets thrown left and right in PvP and is completely free of any cost.

So...where was the expected nerf to this skill. It is not like people did not complain about it.

The skill is great, I don't want it to be remake, but THE SKILL MUST HAVE A COST NOW.

xylena_lazarow · February 1

Proc that can be LoS'd, purged, outhealed by HoTs, etc... ya no skill. Try using this yourself against anyone decent.

Meanwhile you can press 1 button and go from execute range to full HP. Now that's what I call skilled PvP!

RetPing · February 1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Proc that can be LoS'd, purged, outhealed by HoTs, etc... ya no skill. Try using this yourself against anyone decent.

Meanwhile you can press 1 button and go from execute range to full HP. Now that's what I call skilled PvP!

You will still get hit from this thing beyond obstacles once it's on you.
How many people (escluded wardens) slot a purge now?
No one said this is burst damage, it's used in pressure builds, good luck pressing 1 button to heal when you are out of resources.

React · February 1

It's insane that this skill wasn't nerfed with the buffing of status, when it needed a nerf even prior to that.

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on. Obviously that sounds absurd, and a breach skill shouldn't have such a strong buff (10% damage taken) attached to it.

But let's compare it to susceptibility (purely from a PVP perspective).

Piercing mark is typically the morph chosen in PVP, although the secondary effects of both morphs in a PVP setting are more or less useless. Piercing costs 3k, and essentially just applies breach.

Susceptibility is free, applies concussed (instance of direct damage, 6% damage taken), chilled (10% crit damage, 5% maim, instance of direct damage), and burning (dot on par with most sticky dots).

When you consider these things, the absurdity that is NB mark applying major vuln with 100% up time for 3k mag is just... on par with the current version of free susceptibility. That is how absurdly strong this skill is.

The skill needs to be adjusted.

FirmamentOfStars · February 2

Give it a cost of 3k magicka or make it only apply the status effects once on cast and we look at a much better and more balanced state of the skill.

olsborg · February 2

Everyone is using it, feels better to use it over mark or other major breach skills. I think it should get looked at for sure.

Zodiarkslayer · February 2

Ele Sus is fine. It's the entire PvP implementation, that is the problem.
The demands for nerfs from the PvP side are asymmetrical to its importance.

What is left of the ESO PvPers should band together and demand an overhaul, that makes it independent from PvE.
Seperate skills.
Seperate Equipment.
Seperate consumables.

Its the only way that PvP in ESO will survive in the long run.

dinokstrunz · February 2

Ele Sus nerf is way overdue. It's so strong now its a auto include for every build these days for PvP & IA. Ele sus requires zero effort to utilise and is already a in-game pain point on live servers for how incredibly overused it has become. Status effects are about to become even more ugly based on recent changes and in combination of item sets such as Asylum Destro builds that benefit a lot of easy free damage are going to become a major problem and will be infuriating to play against.

It would be nice to see some other options become available that isn't just a free source of easy damage thanks to amplifying status effects because we've seen how boring that game play will become. It's dull and nobody wants it. Adjust status effects better and a rework of Ele Sus would be nice.

JerBearESO · February 2

In PvP you can use this as a spammable vs roll dodge happy targets, since it can't miss and now has like an extra 2k damage with the status buffs. It should maybe lose the status effects for something else. Give it a unique 5% damage to element damage and call it a day.

FirmamentOfStars · February 2

JerBearESO wrote: »

In PvP you can use this as a spammable vs roll dodge happy targets, since it can't miss and now has like an extra 2k damage with the status buffs. It should maybe lose the status effects for something else. Give it a unique 5% damage to element damage and call it a day.

Did not even think about it being used as spammble with the additional damage of concussed and chilled...can we get a PvP dev again to look at this stuff?

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

FirmamentOfStars · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

Nah thx.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

Nah thx.

Show me one trial roster with a Nightblade DD on it, I’ll wait.

React · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

That's an absurdly strong buff to tie to a minute long skill that applies major breach. Just as absurd as the current version of susceptibility.

I too wish they'd balance PVE and PVP separately, but they won't. With that in mind, putting major vulnerability on a skill like Mark target is just.. laughable.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

React wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

That's an absurdly strong buff to tie to a minute long skill that applies major breach. Just as absurd as the current version of susceptibility.

I too wish they'd balance PVE and PVP separately, but they won't. With that in mind, putting major vulnerability on a skill like Mark target is just.. laughable.

Major Breach from the skill is too easily sourced and provides no group synergy whatsoever when given to only a single target, and keep in mind, you can only tag one player with Mark Target at a time.

They could replace Major Breach with Major Vulnerability, it would be as easy as just slotting Razor Caltrops, another AoE DoT to get the debuff back.

Regardless of the path it takes, it needs to happen, the only other route is multiplying Nightblade’s Single-Target damage by 150% which I don’t need to explain the ramifications of to a Nightblade main.

React · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

That's an absurdly strong buff to tie to a minute long skill that applies major breach. Just as absurd as the current version of susceptibility.

I too wish they'd balance PVE and PVP separately, but they won't. With that in mind, putting major vulnerability on a skill like Mark target is just.. laughable.

Wouldn’t be that laughable if they removed Minor Courage from Power Extraction.

Or removed Major Fracture from the skill to begin with in replacement, it would be as easy as just slotting Razor Caltrops, another AoE DoT to get the debuff back.

Major vulnerability isn't minor courage or major fracture. It's a debuff that only comes from four other sources in game, three of them being sets and one being an ultimate. It is the strongest damage modifier in the game. Putting it on mark target makes as much sense as elemental susceptibility doing what it does now. The game doesn't need more obviously overperforming things added.

This thread is about elemental susceptibility though.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

React wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

That's an absurdly strong buff to tie to a minute long skill that applies major breach. Just as absurd as the current version of susceptibility.

I too wish they'd balance PVE and PVP separately, but they won't. With that in mind, putting major vulnerability on a skill like Mark target is just.. laughable.

Wouldn’t be that laughable if they removed Minor Courage from Power Extraction.

Or removed Major Fracture from the skill to begin with in replacement, it would be as easy as just slotting Razor Caltrops, another AoE DoT to get the debuff back.

Major vulnerability isn't minor courage or major fracture. It's a debuff that only comes from four other sources in game, three of them being sets and one being an ultimate. It is the strongest damage modifier in the game. Putting it on mark target makes as much sense as elemental susceptibility doing what it does now. The game doesn't need more obviously overperforming things added.

This thread is about elemental susceptibility though.

While you were typing that out I edited the trade-off to make more sense.

@React, I recommend you participate in more PvE activities, it will give you a better perspective because your opinions are so heavily skewed towards PvP that they interfere with your ability to view things in a vacuum.

Power gained can be power taken, and that’s my final piece on the Major Vulnerability comparison

In closing, I do agree Elemental Susceptibility is a problem, and Vateshran will be a problem next patch, as the staff didn’t get the same treatment as Master’s Dual Wield.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I saw a funny comment the other day suggesting that nightblade mark just apply major vulnerability 100% of the time to the target it's on.

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

Nah thx.

I’m still waiting for a screenshot of a leaderboard roster with a Nightblade DD on it, btw.

MashmalloMan · February 2

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

In PvP you can use this as a spammable vs roll dodge happy targets, since it can't miss and now has like an extra 2k damage with the status buffs. It should maybe lose the status effects for something else. Give it a unique 5% damage to element damage and call it a day.

Did not even think about it being used as spammble with the additional damage of concussed and chilled...can we get a PvP dev again to look at this stuff?

Did a test on the PTS, on my Stam Sorc, ele sus spam with the 3 ticks added together was about 50% of Crystal Weapon's damage. As a spammable, it's definitely nothing to get excited about (unless this dodge scenario).. but when you consider how much that 1 cast does over 30s it's quite ridiculous. That 50% value is closer to 70% once Burning completes and this happens every 7.5s 4 more times.

The value of the damage alone is about 350% of a spammable. Dots were balanced around being 250% of a spammable over 20s and they all cost something.

ZhuJiuyin · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Glad I could make your day. @React

While you find it funny considering how much damage Nightblades do in PvP, I find it sensible considering how little they do in PvE.

Especially considering the fact that Nightblade has been repeatedly buffed in PvP because of that very need in PvE, when the answer has been Major Vulnerability Mark Target the whole time. Nightblade’s identity is the “single-target DD” yet has nothing to buff fights against a single target.

Given that change, ZOS could roll back so many weird buffs that Nightblade received and make that change in replacement and the class would be fine.

No, Major Vulnerability is too powerful and should not be given out arbitrarily, especially since there is currently only one skill that gives this debuff (Frozen Colossus, which is an ultimate)

But I agree that NB needs to be strengthened in PVE─but it should only be slightly strengthened, otherwise it may make NB completely out of control in PVP. Calsses such as NB and Sorc that emphasize single-target damage really need to increase the single-target damage to 120~130% (compared to the 100% single-target damage caused by other classes that are good at AOE). Otherwise there is no way to make up for their lack of AOE capabilities. Or, slightly enhance their AOE capabilities, especially those skills that are less used in both PVP and PVE, and redo these skills into AOE suitable for PVE.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

Thank you. Before I continued, I wanted it to be visible for everyone just how few Nightblade DDs are actively participating in trials at a high level.

Skinny is sitting there pretty with a 60k, love to see it, but there are only 4 Nightblades even close to 50k on that list for Sanity’s Edge, the rest are around 10k.

Rockgrove has 5.

Cloudrest is the only trial with any number of Blades participating and even then, the numbers fall off rapidly.

Look up Arcanist and Dragonknight for the same trials and you’ll see an entire page of all like-numbers before they start to even fall off 10k from the top score.

Out of respect to the OP, this has derailed from the joke made at my expense earlier in the thread, if anyone wants to continue the conversation, I have a post up going over what I believe to be THE answer to Nightblade in PvE as a whole, feel free to check it out and give your opinions.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651567/pve-nightblade-purpose-2024#latest

Twohothardware · February 2

Vateshran destro staff needs to get the same damage scaling change as Master Dual Wield.

These two proc Arena weapons have propped up the 40K health meta we’ve been in.

dinokstrunz · February 2

Twohothardware wrote: »

Vateshran destro staff needs to get the same damage scaling change as Master Dual Wield.

These two proc Arena weapons have propped up the 40K health meta we’ve been in.

Damage from Vate Destro is whatever tbh, it's everything else that hurts. Status effects, master bleeds other procs etc.

IncultaWolf · February 2

Wait people are seriously wanting major vulnerability on mark target? Lmfao, yes let's make necro even more irrelevant, an ultimate giving the debuff vs a low cost abilty that lasts a full minute. Some of these takes are horrible, and the crazy thing is that they aren't trolling either.

The nightblade consuming darkness ultimate should just get reworked at this point to provide a unique debuff, nobody uses this ult anymore, and haven't ever since major protection got nerfed years ago. Not sure why they don't buff twisting path or dark shade instead of incap, those are abilities nobody uses in pvp.

But yes, elemental susceptibility does way too much for being free, especially after the status effect reworks, and should receive a magicka cost

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

Necro would still have AoE Major Vuln, and would persist as the go-to pick for Off-Tank.

Having a class with Single-Target Major Vuln would not kill off your class, I know none of you actually know what Mark Target does so I’ll clarify. It’s an ability that can only be active on 1(one) target, unlike every other skill in the game that can apply Major Breach.

If you want to have that debate, do it on the thread where the idea was proposed, I will gladly have that with you.

IncultaWolf · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Necro would still have AoE Major Vuln, and would persist as the go-to pick for Off-Tank.

Having a class with Single-Target Major Vuln would not kill off your class, I know none of you actually know what Mark Target does so I’ll enlighten you. It’s an ability that can only be active on 1(one) target and if you want to have that debate, do it on the thread where the idea was proposed, I will gladly have that with you.

I would be more than happy to pull my PvE receipts and we can measure clears.

I'm aware of what it does, I have hundreds of hours on every class in both pve and pvp and I've cleared a majority of the hardmode content in this game on multiple of those classes, including nightblade