Tormentor Set

wolfie1.0.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

I have seen the set used specifically by dps and even healers in dungeons and trials to purposefully cause group wipes and ruin runs. Not just a few times either. Among other occurances. Basically people were using it to cause chaos during trials and dungeon runs that were meant to be instructional and introductory. I won't get I to more specifics due to the forum rules on such things.

As for whether it's op? It's not, it's an annoyance that has been around for a long time.

Rubbish.

Anyone can troll if they want to, even a naked character with no armor.

You want to REALY troll a dungeon, run nightblade with shadow cloak and Ring of the Wild hunt. There are so many ways to troll and ruin dungeon runs that using this as an exuse is not even remotely legitimate.

Ruining this set is just a lame, unneccesary change when there are tons of REAL issues that need to be addressed regarding gear sets. Like buffing underperforming sets.

I was asked about my negative experiences with the set. I gave the experience. I didn't say it was the only way to troll I said it was how it was used. I can't change the fact that it occurred. I agree that it is rubbish that it happened.

Unless you were referring to my comment as a whole... to which I can only say that I can't change the fact that it happened to me on more than one occasion and it created a distinct distaste for the set.

Attempting to invalidate my experiences with the set doesn't exactly do anything to change the outcome, nor does it change the past. If life were that easy then we could change a great many things.

Regardless of if zos listens and reverts , I still wish you well and hope you have an enjoyable day.

Keystroke

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

I have seen the set used specifically by dps and even healers in dungeons and trials to purposefully cause group wipes and ruin runs. Not just a few times either. Among other occurances. Basically people were using it to cause chaos during trials and dungeon runs that were meant to be instructional and introductory. I won't get I to more specifics due to the forum rules on such things.

As for whether it's op? It's not, it's an annoyance that has been around for a long time.

Rubbish.

Anyone can troll if they want to, even a naked character with no armor.

You want to REALY troll a dungeon, run nightblade with shadow cloak and Ring of the Wild hunt. There are so many ways to troll and ruin dungeon runs that using this as an exuse is not even remotely legitimate.

Ruining this set is just a lame, unneccesary change when there are tons of REAL issues that need to be addressed regarding gear sets. Like buffing underperforming sets.

I was asked about my negative experiences with the set. I gave the experience. I didn't say it was the only way to troll I said it was how it was used. I can't change the fact that it occurred. I agree that it is rubbish that it happened.

Unless you were referring to my comment as a whole... to which I can only say that I can't change the fact that it happened to me on more than one occasion and it created a distinct distaste for the set.

Attempting to invalidate my experiences with the set doesn't exactly do anything to change the outcome, nor does it change the past. If life were that easy then we could change a great many things.

Regardless of if zos listens and reverts , I still wish you well and hope you have an enjoyable day.

I think you are pointing your anger at the wrong place though. The tormentor set was not the formative element of you being trolled. Person can do the same thing with any taunt or even just no taunt... In fact, it happens all the time with arcanist ability that is a taunt and players not reading that correctly. Or if you recall frost staff heavy attacks used to apply taunt.

Id also reminds folks that a set being bad for tanking or causing bad habits is not a reason to remove it. You may have had bad experiences with tanks showing up for trials wearing leeching plate and crimson twilight and other selfish sets or otherwise underperforming their role as a tank due to their set choices. That is not a reason to have those sets removed from the game.

J18696

Reguardless what reasons it's clear the developers don't want it doing this anymore not going to sit around and guess what that reason is or invalidate other peoples opinions not constructive

Araneae6537

ADarklore wrote: »

While I don't use this set, reading through the comments... I keep seeing basically, "why make this change, hardly anyone uses it anyway?" Well clearly from the comments, it seems a LOT MORE people use it while players are trying to downplay that fact. It seems to me ZOS has the data and knows how many are using this set, and as it goes against how they view tanking show perform, they want to finally nip it in the bud.

In that case, won’t this change be just wonderful for the dungeon queue.

Lazy_Voyager

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

I have seen the set used specifically by dps and even healers in dungeons and trials to purposefully cause group wipes and ruin runs. Not just a few times either. Among other occurances. Basically people were using it to cause chaos during trials and dungeon runs that were meant to be instructional and introductory.

...literally anyone can slot inner fire and do the same thing.

Everaen

Cooperharley wrote: »

In what way? It's never (virtually) used in super high end-game content. It just allows people to learn mechanics and get comfortable as a tank early on. Also feels good to use straight up coming from other MMOs.

Kinda silly. We need more tanks. Decreasing enthusiasm and accessibility for tanks is straight up a bad idea. Gotta start somewhere dude.

Can confirm. I saw a video on YouTube about this set a year or two ago, and made my first ESO tank, which was a Templar. I previously tanked in WoW. I thought it was a fun set to get into tanking with. I liked the easy aggro combined with the Templar spear leap ability.

I've made more tanks since then, using other sets, some selfish, some group buffing or armor reducing. Eventually you figure out the other solo taunts are more or less sufficient, but Tormentor is still fun.

LokiPagan

Yeah, this is stupid. Why bother? I've never used it, but I liked that there was variety. And now we're going to have more fake tanks in the queue, which, of course, Zenimax is never going to address. It's obnoxious; there's so much other stuff that needs to be worked on, and they're nerfing sets that are already niche?

g0thiCiCecReaM

I would be ok with the tormentor changes if we had something like talons to compensate...change explosive charge to basically work like talons and I'm happy - currently the stun doesn't last as long and doesn't appear to do anything, I use it a lot and have never noticed the mobs actually being stunned for more than a second. At least talons roots the mobs long enough for a dk to get aggro on them fairly easily. I've been experimenting with rushing agony and explosive charge and it's not nearly as effective as agony and talons on a dk. Templars need more/better cc to be at least comparable to other classes for dungeon tanking for sure. I've been forcing myself to adjust since the changes are coming and I'm finding tanking on my dk is just more viable than my templar at this point...

There was absolutely nothing wrong with tormentor the way it was, most people don't even use it and it provided at least some modicum of fun to templar tanks. We get punished for using it by the lack of survivability (which has improved a lot over the last year, but no nearly as much as other classes). At least leave us with the one thing that made it fun.

I know this will just fall on deaf ears, but I figure I'd at least voice my displeasure at the change.

JanTanhide

Cooperharley wrote: »

Froil wrote: »

I'm happy it's dead. It creates bad habits.

In what way? It's never (virtually) used in super high end-game content. It just allows people to learn mechanics and get comfortable as a tank early on. Also feels good to use straight up coming from other MMOs.

Kinda silly. We need more tanks. Decreasing enthusiasm and accessibility for tanks is straight up a bad idea. Gotta start somewhere dude.

Couldn't agree more!

JanTanhide

Kite42 wrote: »

Maybe the spaghetti code and the proposed graphical taunt changes didn't get along? A dev looked in the available resources fund, found 3 dollars fifty, some string and a red-7 uno card, and just went 'scrap it'?

Sure seems like that kind of logic is used by ZOS. Update 35 comes to mind.

Braffin

Never used this set personally, but really don't understand this change tbh.

Tormentor was neither unbalanced nor overpowered in any way and afaik only had it's use for more casual tanking of easier and intermediate content. So it did no harm to anyone.

I understand very well, that the core philosophy of eso exclude AoE-tanking in general (was tanking myself from 2014-2016) and I'm not questioning that. Nonetheless odd exemptions of this rule (like Tormentor was) should exist for casual gameplay imo.

I mean, resource management in combat is also a core principle of this game and nonetheless oakensoul-builds are allowed to bypass this central design element (which is also fine outside of competitive endgame scenarios). Why is zos using double standards when altering combat?

PrincessOfThieves

LokiPagan wrote: »

Yeah, this is stupid. Why bother? I've never used it, but I liked that there was variety. And now we're going to have more fake tanks in the queue, which, of course, Zenimax is never going to address. It's obnoxious; there's so much other stuff that needs to be worked on, and they're nerfing sets that are already niche?

I agree. This set wasn't overperforming, it was just providing some utility to a niche playstyle.

fred4

Froil wrote: »

I'm happy it's dead. It creates bad habits.

In a way, this comment encapsulates everything that's wrong with the change. I don't agree with that change, nor with this comment. I think playing optimally, in ESO, is always relative to the content and the group. Your habits need to be flexible. Arguably playing like a trial tank in a mid-level PUG dungeon is as much of a bad habit as playing a Tormentor tank tends to be in a vet trial.

Tormentor was a good option for some (PUG) group compositions and some (mid level) content. That made it situationally useful, but as the comment implies, not meta. Isn't that exactly what you want from a set? Why nerf a set that wasn't universally overperforming? Why consign a useful set to possible irrelevance? This change is such a head-scratcher, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. ZOS don't want you to have fun, if it isn't on their terms. Be a creative theory-crafter, but not too creative, otherwise we'll have to nip that in the bud. I understand that balancing occurs that way, but this doesn't seem like balancing. Was this decision backed up by usage statistics? Was the set overused? I sincerely doubt it.

M_Chudan

They themselves say play as you want, and then they nerf funny niche sets and contradict themselves. You already have 600 sets of which 90% are unnecessary garbage, maybe you should first deal with these 90% and then take on sets that work and don’t bother anyone.
First, Elf Bane was nerfed because solo players started using it against worms. Now this is it.
This is called play as you want, only in our game of 600 sets, God forbid, 20 work.

Gruumsh1

Heaven forbid we as players might have something different to use....

"Play your own way." Pfft!

This change proves ZOS has no idea what its players want.

Another knee-jerk reaction to something that has no real problematic value in the game and removes fun.

I consider the shark jumped at this point. *Apologies to people who aren't as old as I am and don't get that reference