Tormentor Set

BejaProphet

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

Keen

So my new theory is that they are using things like this to limit player load on their servers. Even fewer tanks for their DF to pick up = fewer people logging on to sit in a queue for 30+ minutes to do a dungeon. I am autistic and disabled. This set on my Warden tank made me LOVE this game. I was so eager to get on and play with him. Now? If they go through with this change both my husband and myself (8 year players) are not likely to continue playing. My tank is what made the game fresh for me.

Please do not destroy the fun of the game. Why would you allow some preconceived notion of what makes a game attractive and popular to destroy what is actually attractive and popular?

Aleris

please don't bring this change on live!

wolfie1.0.

My two cents:

The set was an anomaly to begin with and of limited utility. While it may have been useful to pull massive trash mobs it was also abused and used for trolling.

As has been pointed out already in this thread the set is not used in high end pve content. This is because that content is not designed for an aoe taunt and I have witnessed the use of this set cause group wipes.

While handy for lesser content the set was a crutch, used by dps to fake tank, used by trolls, and overall taught players bad tanking habits.

I am honestly surprised it took them this long to correct it.

Froil

Cooperharley wrote: »

In what way? It's never (virtually) used in super high end-game content. It just allows people to learn mechanics and get comfortable as a tank early on. Also feels good to use straight up coming from other MMOs.

Kinda silly. We need more tanks. Decreasing enthusiasm and accessibility for tanks is straight up a bad idea. Gotta start somewhere dude.

Here's some points off the top of my head
AoE taunt doesn't help distinguish dangerous adds
Wantonly taunting everything and blocking their attacks can drain a lot of resources, leads to not paying attention to other adds, leads to being unable to block a HA and getting stunned/killed and wasting more resources on break free
Prevents learning how to properly chain in adds

If you're doing base game normal dungeons or overland, wear anything you want. If a new(noob) tank was wearing this set all the time, gets used to it, and decides to hop in to a vet dungeon for the first time with it, they'll have a really bad time, especially if it's a dlc dungeon.
If a new tank wants to get better, Tormentor will not help for the more difficult things that they'll have to learn. Gotta start somewhere, sure, but not with this set.

StarOfElyon

This sucks for my Night Blade tank. This set was only good for giving me a different way to taunt enemies. Other than that, it was pathetic stat wise. There was no reason to use it outside of the taunt.

AcadianPaladin

Basic tanking requires taunting foes and staying alive. Tormentor was one way of doing this for the minority of tanks who like it. I guess there are too many tanks in the game so let's irritate and lose a few. Need more dd's anyway.

MudcrabAttack

I rarely ever tank, but this set is used on the only tank I have, which I send into random vet dungeons on occasion. Sometimes pug groups spend 20-30 seconds killing groups of things, and I’ll typically AOE taunt, then deal some damage to keep things at least moving along. The set is the only reason I have my sanity in those groups.

But the tanking philosophy surely isn’t to keep very busy spinning your wheels when you get into one of those groups. No thanks, I’ll be swapping my tank to dps

WhiteCoatSyndrome

etchedpixels wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Speaking as someone who usually doesn’t tank, I guess I need to find another relatively idiot-proof set for my Warden. 😕

For easy newb tanking I can recommend hatchlings shell, permafrost and bear ulti never using the swipe. Put CP into the damage shield bonuses, dodge rolling under damage shield (as you've always got one) and into the heal based on ultimate you currently have. Eat a sensible food choice and you can take a coffee break whilst standing in trash because your self heal is crazy even if they get through the damage shield. Monster helm to taste 8)

It doesn't work in PvP because the heals are nerfed there and also because there's eventually someone smart enough to have oblivion damage to deal with trolltanks.

It's also not good for serious stuff as you are not buffing anyone but it sure works well for PUG runs and even tanking dragons.

Thank you! I’ll take a look at those sets.

Keen

etchedpixels wrote: »

For easy newb tanking I can recommend hatchlings shell, permafrost and bear ulti never using the swipe. Put CP into the damage shield bonuses, dodge rolling under damage shield (as you've always got one) and into the heal based on ultimate you currently have. Eat a sensible food choice and you can take a coffee break whilst standing in trash because your self heal is crazy even if they get through the damage shield. Monster helm to taste 8)

It doesn't work in PvP because the heals are nerfed there and also because there's eventually someone smart enough to have oblivion damage to deal with trolltanks.

It's also not good for serious stuff as you are not buffing anyone but it sure works well for PUG runs and even tanking dragons.

The issue I have with the bear ulti is its stun. Prevents pulling for a while, which is agitating.

Pixiepumpkin

Zenimax Online wrote:

Gray_howling_parrot

Froil wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

In what way? It's never (virtually) used in super high end-game content. It just allows people to learn mechanics and get comfortable as a tank early on. Also feels good to use straight up coming from other MMOs.

Kinda silly. We need more tanks. Decreasing enthusiasm and accessibility for tanks is straight up a bad idea. Gotta start somewhere dude.

Here's some points off the top of my head
AoE taunt doesn't help distinguish dangerous adds
Wantonly taunting everything and blocking their attacks can drain a lot of resources, leads to not paying attention to other adds, leads to being unable to block a HA and getting stunned/killed and wasting more resources on break free
Prevents learning how to properly chain in adds

If you're doing base game normal dungeons or overland, wear anything you want. If a new(noob) tank was wearing this set all the time, gets used to it, and decides to hop in to a vet dungeon for the first time with it, they'll have a really bad time, especially if it's a dlc dungeon.
If a new tank wants to get better, Tormentor will not help for the more difficult things that they'll have to learn. Gotta start somewhere, sure, but not with this set.

Whether or not a new tank should use the set is irrelevant. It’s a fun set that didn’t need to be nerfed. That’s all I’m saying lol

Gray_howling_parrot

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

wolfie1.0.

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

BejaProphet

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Fair enough. What I’m sayin is of course only my opinion. But as a player who has tanked in eso for most of the past decade, and more importantly as somebody who has made my main endeavor for the past year to tank hard content specifically as a templar wearing tormentor. I think that opinion is worth entering into the record.

kojou

I never used this set because it felt like a big sacrifice to get an extra way to taunt. There are other sets that do more for the group than this and I was already used to taunting the ole fashion way.

That said, this gets a big "You spent resources to fix that?" from me.

It feels like the developers waste so much time shuffling around numbers and functionalities that have very little impact overall in the game. They are basically upsetting the 5 people that use this set for no apparent reason.

Iriidius

Tormentor is fine as it is. Players who defend the nerf should ask themselve if they or other players really have a disadvantage because of this set giving AOE taunt or if they are just defending a rule that is not making the game more fun.
The Set is not used in Trials and not Meta in vet dlc dungeons, so it doesn't allow groups to get higher trial scores, doesn‘t trivialize and devalues trifecta in dungeons and it isn’t a requirement to have this set and you are not forced to get it except on werwolfe where you don’t have any taunt otherwise.
Usually you have to taunt only one or few NPCs in a fight anyway and ransacking every NPC also isn't that fun that it should be without alternative, while spamming explosive charge or werewolf pounce (only every second cast a gap-closer) would probably look pretty stupid and annyoing to group.
If you still want call it OP despite having only niche use, ask yourself who is suffering from a set beeing OP when it is not outscoring your trial scores, trivializing content or limiting build diversity. Oakensoul heavy attack builds trivialize game much more than tormentor.
Other sets have also functions you cant reach otherwise that are much more problematic.
Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony are AOE pulling players when all pull skills are single target or uncontrollable(necroarmorpull, frozen gate) and they also ignore/dont give CC Immunity.

Werewolve and templar tanks should have something unique because they are bad tanks and werewolves cant even taunt(=tank) without tormentor.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

My two cents:

The set was an anomaly to begin with and of limited utility. While it may have been useful to pull massive trash mobs it was also abused and used for trolling.

As has been pointed out already in this thread the set is not used in high end pve content. This is because that content is not designed for an aoe taunt and I have witnessed the use of this set cause group wipes.

While handy for lesser content the set was a crutch, used by dps to fake tank, used by trolls, and overall taught players bad tanking habits.

I am honestly surprised it took them this long to correct it.

Why is it fake tanking if the player taunts NPCs with tormentor? Normally the requirement for tanking is to taunt bosses and heavy-hitting adds and taunting adds usually doesnt hurt too. And groups wiping in high end PvE content when tank wears tormentor is not a reason to NERF this Set either, it rather shows that the Set is not overperforming.

Starlight_Knight

Honestly I just really enjoyed using this set on my Templar tank, it feels very good and impactful, sure it makes some things a little easier in places but the trade off is its a selfish set that adds no group utility,
Someone above said Petty and mean, feels about right.

Gray_howling_parrot

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

J18696

My two cents this set didn't need tobe changed it was kinda of irrelevant in the grand scheme no one is using this in any meaningful content and if they are questionable I think its just a lazy man's tank set and creates bad habits more than anything but again it was adding more fun than taking it away for some newer players

BejaProphet

J18696 wrote: »

My two cents this set didn't need tobe changed it was kinda of irrelevant in the grand scheme no one is using this in any meaningful content and if they are questionable I think its just a lazy man's tank set and creates bad habits more than anything but again it was adding more fun than taking it away for some newer players

I think everything you said is probably true.

Edit note: we’ll not the part about people being questionable for using it. 🤣

ADarklore

While I don't use this set, reading through the comments... I keep seeing basically, "why make this change, hardly anyone uses it anyway?" Well clearly from the comments, it seems a LOT MORE people use it while players are trying to downplay that fact. It seems to me ZOS has the data and knows how many are using this set, and as it goes against how they view tanking show perform, they want to finally nip it in the bud.

Tommy_The_Gun

It is a shame. With this set you could actually fill a Tank role and play as Werewolf. And I know, I know, it is not meta or anything, but at least you could. It was doable.

You could use Brutal Pounce to taunt multiple enemies, which was huge deal as werewolf "taunt" has enormous resource cost (Double Cast & Quite expensive skill). I always thought that this is intended, since you are sacrificing an entire 5 piece set for the ability to multi taunt and in case of WW to be able to Taunt at all.

I think this change is kinda bad, but maybe it is a part of a greater plan. Maybe they want to add a multi taunt to Scribing and maybe make taunt accessible to WW that way, but idk.

Out of all the classes, this hurts WW the most, as again - other classes can still taunt multiple times as taunt skills are inexpensive and can be used as spamables. WW Brutal Pounce on the other hand + Brutal Carnage not only are expensive to use but also can not be spammed, so the ability to taunt more than one NPC was the only thing that made WW tanking feasible.

This is why Tank does not have any queue time and sometimes it is hard to find a decent Tank.

It is a responsible role and at the same time unfun and unrewarding and very often also unsatisfactory.

How to make it worse ? Well this is a good example. Make more changes like that and you will have more "Fake Tanks" or "Fake DPS", whatevr you want to call it.

Noerra

As a person that actually likes to try and make builds with the underdog and forgotten sets in the game... this Tormentor set was a beloved set to me. It wasn't a set that made the game easier really, it was far from what is meta and what was best to go with...

honestly, you played Tormentor because it gave you a unique tanking experience and gave you a different way to play...which was fun... (Imagine playing the game for fun...)

It was fun to discover a way to AOE taunt in the game... and although it wasn't meta... it was just super fun!

It was one of my favorite sets, just because it was unique, not that it provided anything outrageously advantageous... All it did was provide a gameplay experience you could only get with the set.

but now it isn't unique... it's now quite useless to be honest.

It will be a sad day to deconstruct my gold tormentor set when this patch goes though.

Thanks for the fun and silly runs I've had with you on my Templar, Tormentor set...

I will remember you fondly as you are tossed away and forgotten along with the 100s of other sets ESO has made obsolete or have neglected.

So long Tormentor set... I guess ZoS has decided to add you to the list of bad decision they have made... At least we finally got some Sorc love for pvpers.

Scyware

Equipping one ring and holding RightMouseButton is fine, but don't let people use a set and an ability to make the game easier, though

Why am I still here... I know these devs are gonna push this change through, I've seen update 35

Lazy_Voyager

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Basic tanking requires taunting foes and staying alive. Tormentor was one way of doing this for the minority of tanks who like it. I guess there are too many tanks in the game so let's irritate and lose a few. Need more dd's anyway.

I canceled my ESO+ today. Werewolf tanking is far from meta, but can reliably pug tank any vet dlc dungeon and was one of the few consistently fun things left for me in this game. Remember that? Fun? The actual reason for playing games, not doing your crafting chores and balancing event ticket balance? I'm tired of having to hammer out a new build every time ZoS gets a burr up their ass and decide to re-invent the wheel.

And to anyone saying 'don't worry spellcrafting will fix it' I'm not paying money to do what I was already doing just because they wanted to paywall existing content.

wolfie1.0.

Cooperharley wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

I have seen the set used specifically by dps and even healers in dungeons and trials to purposefully cause group wipes and ruin runs. Not just a few times either. Among other occurances. Basically people were using it to cause chaos during trials and dungeon runs that were meant to be instructional and introductory. I won't get I to more specifics due to the forum rules on such things.

As for whether it's op? It's not, it's an annoyance that has been around for a long time.

wolfie1.0.

Iriidius wrote: »

Tormentor is fine as it is. Players who defend the nerf should ask themselve if they or other players really have a disadvantage because of this set giving AOE taunt or if they are just defending a rule that is not making the game more fun.
The Set is not used in Trials and not Meta in vet dlc dungeons, so it doesn't allow groups to get higher trial scores, doesn‘t trivialize and devalues trifecta in dungeons and it isn’t a requirement to have this set and you are not forced to get it except on werwolfe where you don’t have any taunt otherwise.
Usually you have to taunt only one or few NPCs in a fight anyway and ransacking every NPC also isn't that fun that it should be without alternative, while spamming explosive charge or werewolf pounce (only every second cast a gap-closer) would probably look pretty stupid and annyoing to group.
If you still want call it OP despite having only niche use, ask yourself who is suffering from a set beeing OP when it is not outscoring your trial scores, trivializing content or limiting build diversity. Oakensoul heavy attack builds trivialize game much more than tormentor.
Other sets have also functions you cant reach otherwise that are much more problematic.
Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony are AOE pulling players when all pull skills are single target or uncontrollable(necroarmorpull, frozen gate) and they also ignore/dont give CC Immunity.

Werewolve and templar tanks should have something unique because they are bad tanks and werewolves cant even taunt(=tank) without tormentor.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

My two cents:

The set was an anomaly to begin with and of limited utility. While it may have been useful to pull massive trash mobs it was also abused and used for trolling.

As has been pointed out already in this thread the set is not used in high end pve content. This is because that content is not designed for an aoe taunt and I have witnessed the use of this set cause group wipes.

While handy for lesser content the set was a crutch, used by dps to fake tank, used by trolls, and overall taught players bad tanking habits.

I am honestly surprised it took them this long to correct it.

Why is it fake tanking if the player taunts NPCs with tormentor? Normally the requirement for tanking is to taunt bosses and heavy-hitting adds and taunting adds usually doesnt hurt too. And groups wiping in high end PvE content when tank wears tormentor is not a reason to NERF this Set either, it rather shows that the Set is not overperforming.

You are assuming that the tank was wearing the set in the first place.

Pixiepumpkin

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Cooperharley

“Templar tank also shined in this regard because it is virtually the only class with an AOE explosive gap closer.“. -you

This really doesn’t seem like a good case for keeping it. And my argument from my very first post (feel free to check) has been that a player base not catching on to the potential here is no argument on whether it’s OP or outside the vision.

Further, there is ZERO reason it should not be used in a trifecta run. There is a good reason not to use it in trials since tanks need to not cross taunt. Finally. Templars have an incredibly powerful tanking set up. One of the best imo. What they don’t have is superior group buffs, but that isn’t tanking. (I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t buff the group in ESO). I build my tanks to buff the group to varying degrees. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be confused with the task of tanking itself.

You’re arguing different points just to argue. I’m not going to respond to your stuff anymore my man. I don’t understand why and where your head is at personally. It’s a fun set that shouldn’t have been nerfed. Plain and simple. Peace 🫡

Clearly the devs disagree. And you havn't had the negative experiences that I have had with the set.

I don't normal like any nerfs, this one I stand behind

What have been your "negative" experiences with this set out of curiosity?

Also, why after 10 years is it now suddenly over-powered. Just a random and weird change

I have seen the set used specifically by dps and even healers in dungeons and trials to purposefully cause group wipes and ruin runs. Not just a few times either. Among other occurances. Basically people were using it to cause chaos during trials and dungeon runs that were meant to be instructional and introductory. I won't get I to more specifics due to the forum rules on such things.

As for whether it's op? It's not, it's an annoyance that has been around for a long time.

Rubbish.

Anyone can troll if they want to, even a naked character with no armor.

You want to REALY troll a dungeon, run nightblade with shadow cloak and Ring of the Wild hunt. There are so many ways to troll and ruin dungeon runs that using this as an exuse is not even remotely legitimate.

Ruining this set is just a lame, unneccesary change when there are tons of REAL issues that need to be addressed regarding gear sets. Like buffing underperforming sets.

arteen_eso

This change is a huge disappointment.

It's an off-meta, unique, fun way to tank, a role that is unpopular but sorely needed. Nobody is breaking the game with this set. Let people have fun.