Ithelia Figure in Bethesda Store

Soarora

Syldras wrote: »

"Adjacent Place" is also mentioned only once:



No Lyg, no dreugh.

Also, Augur is a NOTORIOUS liar. The Psijics warn you of this. Any of his dialogue except what is specifically an answer to your question may just be completely false. That or it’s true and the Psijics believe them to be lies but I think of all people the Psijics would know if he’s lying about the random things he says, like trees complaining.

I’m suspicious of lore taken from sources like Augur because the lore community as a whole has shown repeatedly a lack of nuance when it comes to secondhand information, taking things as truth that may not be (like the events of Legends, which we know are part true, part exaggerated, some may even just be false. Also Racial Phylogeny, which is written by Imperial students with all the racism and propaganda of an Imperial book).

Syldras

Soarora wrote: »

I’m suspicious of lore taken from sources like Augur because the lore community as a whole has shown repeatedly a lack of nuance when it comes to secondhand information, taking things as truth that may not be (like the events of Legends, which we know are part true, part exaggerated, some may even just be false. Also Racial Phylogeny, which is written by Imperial students with all the racism and propaganda of an Imperial book).

"But it's written in a book!"/"But random-famous-person has said it!" - annoying when it comes to lore of a fictional world, dangerous in real life. But very common, yes.

OtarTheMad

Syldras wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Well no, not just Michael Kirkbride - The Augur of the Obscure talks about being from the/an Adjacent Place and references the Rule of the Dreughs, indicating that he's referring to Lyg.

I have to check that. The person I quoted refered to this quote in UESP, I thought (especially as the wording was a direct quote from this):



Where the source is given as:

That’s why I said “if you believe the tales” because some believe MK’s word is gold while others see it as just unofficial. The Augur’s dialogue is seen as more official but he lies… so… “if you believe the tales.”

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

"Adjacent Place" is also mentioned only once:



No Lyg, no dreugh.

A lot of uncharted Lore as to what is actually over there. Lyg is mentioned by Mankar Camoran without actually saying exactly where it is.

Syldras

OtarTheMad wrote: »

That’s why I said “if you believe the tales” because some believe MK’s word is gold while others see it as just unofficial.

I love the lore he invented for Morrowind, but he's not involved as a writer for the TES games anymore since 2006 or so - I know Oblivion was the last game. That's 18 years ago. So while he can make any statements he wishes online, and continue his own story about the TES world, it might be entertaining to read, but I don't see anything he writes as reliable lore, as long as Bethesda/ZOS wouldn't directly confirm it.

OtarTheMad

Syldras wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

That’s why I said “if you believe the tales” because some believe MK’s word is gold while others see it as just unofficial.

I love the lore he invented for Morrowind, but he's not involved as a writer for the TES games anymore since 2006 or so - I know Oblivion was the last game. That's 18 years ago. So while he can make any statements he wishes online, and continue his own story about the TES world, it might be entertaining to read, but I don't see anything he writes as reliable lore, as long as Bethesda/ZOS wouldn't directly confirm it.

So you’re in the unofficial category, that’s cool. I’m undecided because to me he isn’t involved anymore but it’s just lore for a game so Bethesda could some time down the road make some stuff official, which is fine too as long as it’s nothing completely ridiculous. I guess I am both undecided and open.

Soarora

Elsonso wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

"Adjacent Place" is also mentioned only once:



No Lyg, no dreugh.

A lot of uncharted Lore as to what is actually over there. Lyg is mentioned by Mankar Camoran without actually saying exactly where it is.

Mankar Camoran confuses me to be honest, because he lists Daedric Realms but attributes them all to the wrong Princes?…??? Maybe I’m missing something here but to me it seems he thinks he knows a lot but he actually knows very little.

OtarTheMad

Soarora wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

"Adjacent Place" is also mentioned only once:



No Lyg, no dreugh.

A lot of uncharted Lore as to what is actually over there. Lyg is mentioned by Mankar Camoran without actually saying exactly where it is.

Mankar Camoran confuses me to be honest, because he lists Daedric Realms but attributes them all to the wrong Princes?…??? Maybe I’m missing something here but to me it seems he thinks he knows a lot but he actually knows very little.

Yeah agreed. Mankar is weird. Maybe he was driven mad.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

and they're bringing in a Prince of Change.

But Mehrunes Dagon is already here. Mr. Destruction, ambition and change.

Dagon's change is change of power + revolution. Changing the status quo, so to speak.

Ithelia seems to be more about the timeline-shattering type of change that occurs with things like a dragonbreak or the Warp in the West - a much grander type of change which kinda goes hand in hand with why she was locked away in the first place.

Aaa, chaotic change, like Sithis! Also dragonbreaks are extremely rare with the Warp in the West being one out of three, so that "or" is redundant.

colossalvoids

Syldras wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

That’s why I said “if you believe the tales” because some believe MK’s word is gold while others see it as just unofficial.

I love the lore he invented for Morrowind, but he's not involved as a writer for the TES games anymore since 2006 or so - I know Oblivion was the last game. That's 18 years ago. So while he can make any statements he wishes online, and continue his own story about the TES world, it might be entertaining to read, but I don't see anything he writes as reliable lore, as long as Bethesda/ZOS wouldn't directly confirm it.

About his contribution to Skyrim:

"He had a hand in hammering out the original plot and world design, and did some ghost writing on the announcement trailer. Some of his contributions that ended up getting cut from Skyrim are now making a reappearance in ESO. Not to mention all the references to the Aldudaggas, which should be apparent."
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2504w2/has_bethesda_reacted_to_non_cannon_material/chebd7p/

Syldras

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So you’re in the unofficial category, that’s cool. I’m undecided because to me he isn’t involved anymore but it’s just lore for a game so Bethesda could some time down the road make some stuff official, which is fine too as long as it’s nothing completely ridiculous. I guess I am both undecided and open.

To me, it's simple: If someone is not the sole author, and also not officially speaking for the publisher of a story written by a whole team of people (may it be a tv series, game or whatever), then it's their personal opinion, but not official content.

Even if there was a book series with only one author, and the rights of the series are later transfered to someone else and the sequels are written by that new author, the old author can privately invent as many as new places or characters as they wish, but with no personal involvement in and rights over the series anymore, it's basically just fanfiction.

Unless it's made official by the current author/team/publisher. But not before that.

colossalvoids wrote: »

About his contribution to Skyrim:
"He had a hand in hammering out the original plot and world design, and did some ghost writing on the announcement trailer. Some of his contributions that ended up getting cut from Skyrim are now making a reappearance in ESO. Not to mention all the references to the Aldudaggas, which should be apparent."
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2504w2/has_bethesda_reacted_to_non_cannon_material/chebd7p/

So he had contributed to Skyrim, too. That doesn't change, though, that only things that are officially included are "facts" in TES lore. More of his ideas might be included later, then they'll turn official, but before that, it's not more than personal ideas.

OtarTheMad

Syldras wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So you’re in the unofficial category, that’s cool. I’m undecided because to me he isn’t involved anymore but it’s just lore for a game so Bethesda could some time down the road make some stuff official, which is fine too as long as it’s nothing completely ridiculous. I guess I am both undecided and open.

To me, it's simple: If someone is not the sole author, and also not officially speaking for the publisher of a story written by a whole team of people (may it be a tv series, game or whatever), then it's their personal opinion, but not official content.

Even if there was a book series with only one author, and the rights of the series are later transfered to someone else and the sequels are written by that new author, the old author can privately invent as many as new places or characters as they wish, but with no personal involvement in and rights over the series anymore, it's basically just fanfiction.

Unless it's made official by the current author/team/publisher. But not before that.

colossalvoids wrote: »

About his contribution to Skyrim:
"He had a hand in hammering out the original plot and world design, and did some ghost writing on the announcement trailer. Some of his contributions that ended up getting cut from Skyrim are now making a reappearance in ESO. Not to mention all the references to the Aldudaggas, which should be apparent."
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2504w2/has_bethesda_reacted_to_non_cannon_material/chebd7p/

So he had contributed to Skyrim, too. That doesn't change, though, that only things that are officially included are "facts" in TES lore. More of his ideas might be included later, then they'll turn official, but before that, it's not more than personal ideas.

You realize we agree on this right? I was just sharing to give people an option whether they want to believe it or not. Bethesda decides what is official, I am just undecided because I see some things in lore, not all, as open. Open might not be the right word but I guess bendable or flexible would be another way to say it.

As an example, at one point in lore (but was deleted cuz not canon) it was said that the Snow Elves of the Chantry used Sun Magic (which I guess would be similar to ESO's Templar). I see that as something that could very well be true since Gelebor used Sun Magic to manipulate and change arrows.

Syldras

OtarTheMad wrote: »

You realize we agree on this right?

It was just a general statement.

I'm always surprised how some people see everything Kirkbride says as the "absolute truth", btw. And wondering if there was anything that made them question what he writes. Would they still believe it, if it was wacky enough? "In the 5th era the Altmer are riding flying sausages and Hello Kitty became the new Jarl of Windhelm" - still "the truth" if Kirkbride wrote it on his blog?

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I was just sharing to give people an option whether they want to believe it or not. Bethesda decides what is official, I am just undecided because I see some things in lore, not all, as open. Open might not be the right word but I guess bendable or flexible would be another way to say it.

There are things that look conflicting. Sometimes real lore mistakes. Sometimes a matter of an unreliable narrator. That's what Soarora posted earlier: Just because something is written in a lorebook, doesn't mean it's "the truth". The author can be mistaken, it can be an outdated theory, it can be a lie for personal gain, or war propaganda. Just as in reality.

OtarTheMad

Syldras wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

You realize we agree on this right?

It was just a general statement.

I'm always surprised how some people see everything Kirkbride says as the "absolute truth", btw. And wondering if there was anything that made them question what he writes. Would they still believe it, if it was wacky enough? "In the 5th era the Altmer are riding flying sausages and Hello Kitty became the new Jarl of Windhelm" - still "the truth" if Kirkbride wrote it on his blog?

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I was just sharing to give people an option whether they want to believe it or not. Bethesda decides what is official, I am just undecided because I see some things in lore, not all, as open. Open might not be the right word but I guess bendable or flexible would be another way to say it.

There are things that look conflicting. Sometimes real lore mistakes. Sometimes a matter of an unreliable narrator. That's what Soarora posted earlier: Just because something is written in a lorebook, doesn't mean it's "the truth". The author can be mistaken, it can be an outdated theory, it can be a lie for personal gain, or war propaganda. Just as in reality.

Yeah I agree about the conflicting info. That’s why I wasn’t too angry about how Alinor looked. There were at least 2 different descriptions and one dude could have just drank too much skooma that day and saw it weird or whatever. Bethesda could have just changed their mind and didn’t want to be tied to that description if they ever made Summerset Isles so making one or two more opens things up a bit.

Nomadic_Atmoran

aspergalas4 wrote: »

The appearance of Ithelia simply doesn't look Daedric enough, the glass shard aesthetic is unique but her appearance beyond that is rather mundane for an entity that is as otherworldly as Daedra are.

What makes something daedric enough? Last I checked, Daedric Princes can appear as they please.

aspergalas4 wrote: »

Sharrum wrote: »

Most Deadric Princes choose to appear as a form that can appeal or be understood by mortals when interacting with them. Its why 80% of them just appear as a simple humanoid figure, its not just females.

Sheogorath, Hircine, Clavicus, Nocturnal, Meridia, Azura, Boethiah...

Truly the only ones who choose to appears as something different to mortal eyes are Peryite, Molag Bal (cause he wants mortals to fear him) and HMora (cause he likes to appear unknowable).

I really really dont see the problem wih Ithellia appearing as a "simple" woman on the mortal plane...

While you are not wrong at all in what you are saying I think you are missing the point being made, we have enough Daedric Princes already that as you state use a humanoid form. Why do we need another one? If a new prince is being added make them truly stand out given the premise is they have been deliberately forgotten because they pose such a great threat. It's just once again an issue of potential being squandered.

Im not sure what youre trying to get at here?

Are they (ZOS) only allowed to add to the lore when it does something so different that its never been seen before? Because if thats how it works I promise you youll be back here complaining about the lack of content when it becomes obvious that most concepts are recycled and not really fresh or new.

Syldras

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Last I checked, Daedric Princes can appear as they please

She could appear as a humanoid figure without a face, blurry features or a flickering, foggy outline.
As a floating spindle surrounded by light.
As a prism.
As several people in one:





As a flaming symbol that looks like crossroads.
As a person whose appearance, age and race change every time we see her.
...

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Last I checked, Daedric Princes can appear as they please

She could appear as a humanoid figure without a face, blurry features or a flickering, foggy outline.
As a floating spindle surrounded by light.
As a prism.
As several people in one:

As a flaming symbol that looks like crossroads.
As a person whose appearance, age and race change every time we see her.
...

The list goes on of the many creative appearances they could've gone for, but instead they chose the look pretty white woman with some crystal wings and glowing symbols.

TaSheen

I'm sure there's a subtext there, considering how expensive it is. Probably a "target buyer", y'know?

Syldras

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Yeah I agree about the conflicting info. That’s why I wasn’t too angry about how Alinor looked. There were at least 2 different descriptions and one dude could have just drank too much skooma that day and saw it weird or whatever.

Or being overwhelmed as a traveller because they've never seen something like that before, or having difficulties describing what they saw because they don't know what to compare it with, because their own culture doesn't have anything like that.

I mean, look at real-life old, pre-photography drawings of elephants. The only thing that are mostly gotten right are the trunk and the tusks, probably because the person who saw it found them most interesting, so it was easy to memorize how they look. The ears and legs... that's more complicated:





So it's very much possible that some traveller from far away, who saw Alinor for the first time, found the white marble buildings shimmering in the bright light of a hot summer day to look like reflecting glass. Because that's the only thing that comes to his mind to compare it with.

Just one possible interpretation.

Thevampirenight

Well the trailers do a decent job of depicting what we might see in appearances of a daedric prince.

What we see is kind of more unique then just the angel like wing crystal wings. Her legs also start to become more like an atronach, I think they are adding a new type of crystaline antronach.
What you see in the trailer is she is getting like angelic like wings and.her human legs becoming like her daedra as you can see in the gameplay picture. As you can see like you can see the daedric properties like start to come back to her as she is basically going from a serious weakened state to regaining some of her power her body is changing to like regain her true form in the trailer. But was interrupted in the trailer.

Hence why she is directly walking and having an impact on the West Weild. My guess is like she was interrupted before she could take on her true like more exotic daedric form. The way it looks like she was as weak as a mortal, maybe was close to being one maybe immortal but powerless. But then she regains some of her power allowing her escape. Which allowed her to then start to take up her true form. the statue is like one of my guess like forms she would take but her daedric form is more exotic then people think. The trailer shows that.

Lylith

she's fine enough, but azura's my girl.

huskandhunger

Her model was inspired by Shakira's wherever, whenever song ☺️