Ithelia Figure in Bethesda Store

Syldras

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I own quite a few cold-cast resins as well- I favor those from Veronese Designs, as the detail is superb. I recently spent about $75 on a statue of the angel Uriel that really impressed me. Really, the photos never do them justice, it's the truth. Even the mini versions are impressive, though I like the larger ones best. I have several from their mythology collection that are bigger than the statue from Bethesda, and cost me less.
Even though I collect action figures, I also favor the classic look on these, especially the bronze ones. The quality is far superior- especially the grace of the actual sculpting, when compared to any of the special edition figures from the Bethesda store.

Most of my statuettes are Veronese, too (I agree they're of sublime quality); mostly bronze and about 35 cm tall (Google tells me that's about 14 inches). I also have a few marble white ones, exact replicas of (mostly Italian) 19th century cemetery sculptures. Funny thing, I began "collecting" them when I was 16, mainly because I couldn't afford real antiques (except for books and single prints; I was an unusual kid, having framed copperplate prints on my wall while peers prefered posters of Britney Spears - getting hold of them was more interesting, too, having to hunt for them in antique stores and at fleamarkets instead of buying the weekly teen magazine ). Now, slightly more than 20 years later, I own a copious mix of antiques and replicas, and honestly, without closer examination most people can't tell which ones are originals and which ones reproductions. So much for the quality.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I said races so that you didn’t think I meant IRL people because that has happened before. I guess I should have been more detailed and worded it better. People within the races of Tamriel that “live” in this video game franchise called The Elder Scrolls that was made by Bethesda Softworks, then Bethesda Game Studios who then let a new studio ZeniMax Media Inc create a title Elder Scrolls Online made by ZeniMax Online Studios. Good? LoL. Half messing with you, half serious. I did only say races because people have confused what I meant.

It wasn't meant to criticize you, I just don't like how in games everything is called a "race" when it actually isn't, even according to lore (all humans are one species or, how it was historically called, race - so humans and mer are two different races, but not Bretons and Nords), so I personally prefer to call them "people".

OtarTheMad wrote: »

But yeah, I feel that Ithelia could manipulate people into trusting her if she wanted to and a good way to do so in Imperial land would be an Imperial women. And some people do not like Hermaeus Mora and might blindly believe that this woman needs help.

We'll see. I still find it improbable because there have always been feuds between Daedric Princes, which sometimes causes their cultists to fight each other, but not a whole nation.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

laniakea_0 wrote: »

can we be sure this is her true form? they did say several times that she was walking through the West Weald, basically blending in with the locals. so could it be possible that she picked this shape for her escape?

then there's also the fact that one of the glyphics containing Mora's secret has not been opened yet. I think it's conceivable that she isn't able to assume her true shape yet...

Princes doesn't have a "true form". They lack a physical form or at least one that's possible to be perceived by mortals. They choose to manifest in certain forms.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

aspergalas4 wrote: »

The appearance of Ithelia simply doesn't look Daedric enough, the glass shard aesthetic is unique but her appearance beyond that is rather mundane for an entity that is as otherworldly as Daedra are.

Sheogorath enters the chat

Half the cast enters the chat lol. That's such a strange criticism.

Most of the Princes just look like regular mortals when they show up to chat.

Which is why we want something less normal mortal looking. It's a bit too many, especially on the side which choose to look feminine. Meridia is already often portrayed as a pretty woman with wings and glowiness. Now we have a second?

TaSheen

Mostly I remember Meridia as the Groundskeeper. Not very attractive....

NoticeMeArkay

Never thought I'd see the day something looking like a tumblr oc level self-insert makes its way into the reigns of daedric princes but here we are. I wish it was yesterday.

TaSheen

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day something looking like a tumblr oc level self-insert makes its way into the reigns of daedric princes but here we are. I wish it was yesterday.

I haven't a clue what you mean?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

TaSheen wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day something looking like a tumblr oc level self-insert makes its way into the reigns of daedric princes but here we are. I wish it was yesterday.

I haven't a clue what you mean?

I believe NoticeMeArkay is not keen on Ithelia’s design.

TaSheen

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day something looking like a tumblr oc level self-insert makes its way into the reigns of daedric princes but here we are. I wish it was yesterday.

I haven't a clue what you mean?

I believe NoticeMeArkay is not keen on Ithelia’s design.

Well, I got that - but "a tumblr oc level self-insert" is nothing I understand.

Faulgor

Pretty much what others have said. She's too non-TES.
Being human isn't really the issue, as many Daedra appear human-like, but usually some alien quality shines through (e.g. Sheo's eyes, Vile's horns).

- lose the wings (too close to Jyggalag and Meridia alike)
- lose the tattoos (too generic, could've at least used Daedric Script)
- give her strange eyes/facial features/skin color
- anything that makes me think of the Prince of Paths. My choice would be comically large and strange walking boots, but I know that's not to everyone's taste and depends on her personality. Her weapon/thread thingie is interesting, but I don't know enough yet to interpret it.

All that said, Princes always change appearance. Meridia didn't have wings until Skyrim, for example. While I don't like this particular design, her personality will be a bigger determinant what I think of her.

SeaGtGruff

Never before in TES lore has there ever been a Daedra who appeared as a beautiful, alluring human woman!

Oh, wait... https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daedra_Seducer

spartaxoxo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Never before in TES lore has there ever been a Daedra who appeared as a beautiful, alluring human woman!

Oh, wait... https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daedra_Seducer

The complaint is it's over done not that it didn't exist before. And in this case, due to the lack of otherworldly features apart from the wings, looks more generic.

SeaGtGruff

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Never before in TES lore has there ever been a Daedra who appeared as a beautiful, alluring human woman!

Oh, wait... https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daedra_Seducer

The complaint is it's over done not that it didn't exist before. And in this case, due to the lack of otherworldly features apart from the wings, looks more generic.

Ah, so it's all about the choice of hair color, hairdo, clothing, etc.?

What's the word I'm looking for?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

"b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉ"

So dark, straight hair, with a scanty and revealing robe, along with batlike wings, is okay because those things immediately conjure up associations with evil and demonic creatures, whereas blonde hair and angelic wings couldn't possibly be okay for Daedra to use. Okay, whatever. How shallow are the minds of mere mortals that they can't see past surface appearances.

Syldras

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So dark, straight hair, with a scanty and revealing robe, along with batlike wings, is okay because those things immediately conjure up associations with evil and demonic creatures, whereas blonde hair and angelic wings couldn't possibly be okay for Daedra to use. Okay, whatever. How shallow are the minds of mere mortals that they can't see past surface appearances.

She could also look like a normal young woman, but with glowing eyes in an unnatural color. Or have any skincolor that does not exist in the mortal races. It doesn't have to be the "evil demoness with horns" cliché (quite the opposite, if you'd read attentively you'd see that people wish for a creative, unusual concept) - it would be nice if there was at least anything that makes her look different to a mortal.

Seraphayel

Synaryn wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I think she looks fantastic and giving her such an angelic and pure look

You mean Meridia?

makes us players sympathize with her and question Mora's choices. While most Daedric Princes look rather hideous, she's beautiful, which could be a good disguise if she's cunning and manipulative (what we don't know yet).

Just like Meridia!

Making her the exact opposite of other Daedric Princes visually is a great choice and exactly something to subvert expectations. Well done.

She's Meridia but a little to the left. It is not 'subverting expectations' to make another hot lady in a dress for a goddess, those are a penny a hundred. You could drop her in a MOBA game as a mage character and she wouldn't even look out of place.

ZOS had the chance to do something that TRULY subverted expectations and break the mold, make her look freaky and *** up like half the other Princes do and like nearly no female deity character EVER looks like. Instead they chose an incredibly bland design and wasted every ounce of potential they had going for her. Little to no aesthetic diversity for goddess characters across fantasy media. Literally even if she had the exact same body but the mirror texture from the wings applied throughout, that would have been a massive improvement.

I just... don't agree at all. But that's what opinions are for, I guess.

Lugaldu

Syldras wrote: »

Rolled the dice a few times.







Yeah, still a young woman, I know.

These would have been much more suitable for my taste!

The figure from the store (and Ithelia in general - which I didn't even know until the big spoiler event, I mean reveal event...) looks like a Barbie doll from my nieces...

I_killed_Vivec

Syldras wrote: »

Rolled the dice a few times.







Yeah, still a young woman, I know.

I'm sure I've been out with a couple of those - I recognize the finger nails

I hate to say it but my first impression of the Ithelia "doll" was "Barbie".

The problem with "beauty" is that it's in the eye of the beholder. In order to make her appealing to all, they have gone with some conventional, generic ideal that I find rather bland.

I will not be getting her, I'd have preferred a statue - keep the crystals but have her carved out of stone. That way you can use your imagination...

But I'll reserve judgement until I see her in game. However, if they really wanted to make her more innocent/creepy she could have been a child - an innocent reborn from the pit where she'd been imprisoned (just ask Stephen King, or watch The Shining, nothing as creepy as young girls). Though I acknowledge using child images is problematic.

P.S. I've seen a few experiments with AI generated images which have been prompted to generate older women (still as fantasy characters). They don't seem to change much from the young women apart from having silver hair, a few wrinkles, and no freckles.

Trejgon

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

That was explained in the Necrom story-line.

Dunno I was going on of what they said on global reveal, and Rich said in global reveal that "how the daedra prince gets forgotten" as something we will be investigating in the gold road chapter....

Syldras wrote: »

She wasn't "just forgotten", she was banned by erasing all memories of her. It's in the Necrom storyline.

Same as above, with additional tidbit that I am unsure how banning memory of daedric prince is supposed to affect said daedric prince ability to act and interfere on it's own.....

My point was tho, that going off just by information of what we are going to be learning in gold road chapter as per global reveal, Ithelia's current form may be very heavilly tied to the exact method used to implement her (presumed) imprisoning (since not point in forget spell if she mantains ability to just continue doing her thing) and not be the same as what she was originally. Considering the statuette I guess for foreseeable future it will be how she continues to be tho.

Kallykat

She fits my aesthetic preferences way more than something classically demonic or bizarre (especially bizarre for the sake of being bizarre), so I like her. She doesn't immediately scream Daedric Prince to me, although she does remind me a bit of Meridia. That may make sense later, as this chapter is connected to the Ayleids, some of whom worshipped Meridia and who seem to have a thing for stars and glowing blue. I like the connection made above to Grecian art and the fates.

I could also see them choosing a more "normal-looking" young woman depiction of her for the purposes of story and having her blend in while she regains her strength. At the end of the trailer, there's a cloaked woman shown walking down an alley. I presume that woman is meant to be Ithelia in disguise after her release.

I don't know. I just think there are probably more reasons behind her design which might make sense after we play the chapter. (I haven't played Necrom yet, so maybe there are already reasons of which I'm unaware.) I do think she is at least as normal/strange in appearance as Sheo or Nocturnal or several other Princes. Besides the wings and glowing tattoos, she has crystal beads in her hair, and her outfit is at least more interesting than another dark robe.

Again, aesthetics are mostly a matter of opinion, and she really fits mine. Admittedly, as someone who grew up collecting statues of winged fairy women, I might be a bit biased.

RaddlemanNumber7

I'm sure when her costume, tats and hairdo hit the Crown Store they'll sell well. Isn't that the point? When people do commercials for cosmetics they stick 'em on a supermodel.

Syldras

Kallykat wrote: »

She fits my aesthetic preferences way more than something classically demonic or bizarre (especially bizarre for the sake of being bizarre), so I like her.

That's okay and I respect that.

Personally, I don't feel that characters in a story neccessarily have to look beautiful, and especially not all fit the same beauty standard (especially if it's the current mass media standard), which to me looks rather bland. I prefer a fantasy world to look complex and "realistic" - and in the real world, there are all kinds of people. So I also never understand people who mod rpgs to have all female characters look like beauty queens - all the same except for hair color - because having hundreds of Barbie clones, especially in a world that is rugged and dangerous, kills the whole athmosphere and immersion.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

The problem with "beauty" is that it's in the eye of the beholder. In order to make her appealing to all, they have gone with some conventional, generic ideal that I find rather bland.

That's the sad thing to me, that they equate a character been appealing with it having to look beautiful. As if there was no other aspect that could people find a character interesting.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

P.S. I've seen a few experiments with AI generated images which have been prompted to generate older women (still as fantasy characters). They don't seem to change much from the young women apart from having silver hair, a few wrinkles, and no freckles.

Here you go, Ithelia disguising more or less effectively as an old woman

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Syldras wrote: »

Here you go, Ithelia disguising more or less effectively as an old woman

That’s a lot of fingers. 😱

Syldras

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

That’s a lot of fingers. 😱

I count 10. Only the way they are distributed on the hands might be a bit weird. But it's not unrealistic that a Daedric Prince might get that wrong! Many people don't look closely when it comes to animals they consider lesser creatures.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Syldras wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

That’s a lot of fingers. 😱

I count 10. Only the way they are distributed on the hands might be a bit weird. But it's not unrealistic that a Daedric Prince might get that wrong! Many people don't look closely when it comes to animals they consider lesser creatures.

Look closer at the hand on the left side of the pic. Five fingers + a thumb.

Syldras

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Look closer at the hand on the left side of the pic. Five fingers + a thumb.

Yes, and the other hand only has 4.

Kallykat

Syldras wrote: »

Kallykat wrote: »

She fits my aesthetic preferences way more than something classically demonic or bizarre (especially bizarre for the sake of being bizarre), so I like her.

That's okay and I respect that.

Personally, I don't feel that characters in a story neccessarily have to look beautiful, and especially not all fit the same beauty standard (especially if it's the current mass media standard), which to me looks rather bland. I prefer a fantasy world to look complex and "realistic" - and in the real world, there are all kinds of people. So I also never understand people who mod rpgs to have all female characters look like beauty queens - all the same except for hair color - because having hundreds of Barbie clones, especially in a world that is rugged and dangerous, kills the whole athmosphere and immersion.

I also don't think all the characters have to fit the same beauty standard, but it's okay if some of them do. Maybe my earlier comment was misleading. I enjoy a demonic or bizarre character too, and I like complexity and diversity in my game worlds, but that doesn't mean I don't also appreciate a more "classic" beauty (for lack of a better word). The latter pulls at certain threads for me and also adds to the diversity when there are many other aspects of this world and its characters (and the Princes specifically) that don't fall under the "classic" beauty category. I like it all. This aesthetic, with its somewhat more traditional high fantasy feel, is especially appealing to me, but I wouldn't want every character to look like this. And I don't think they do.

I can understand feeling like this was a missed opportunity when a wide realm of possibilities was open to the designers, particularly if this aesthetic doesn't appeal to you. I imagine there might be story or lore reasons for their choices here beyond just mass appeal based on a beauty queen or Britney Spears standard. We'll see. Either way, I think this universe is full of diverse and interesting characters, and I don't think this one will take away from that. If everything was dark or bizarrre, that would also take away from the realism and complexity.

(By the way, I'm enjoying the AI art. My husband has been into making portraits of our group's D&D characters with AI lately, and they look awesome. I need to try it out.)

Synaryn

Syldras wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Oh I think its intentional, I think they are going off greek mythology inspiration for her design. With more of a fate/fury look. She has a whip those are associated with furies of greek mythlogy and seen a few images of furies with wings that kind of look very similar. The whip looks like a golden thread too, if you look up the three fates and then the furies. I uploaded one image of a fury down below compared with the image of Ithellia. One good image of a fate I cannot use here since its topless but can see the inspiration in that one too. That I saw on google

It's no whip. This is one of her hands:



This the other:





It's probably supposed to be this, although it was highly stylized in that depiction:



I'm quire sure it's supposed to be the strings of fate, though.

Btw, her name sounds Greek(-inspired), too. I've been wondering all the time what it reminds me of.

That's a godsdamned Sailor Moon wand.

spartaxoxo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Never before in TES lore has there ever been a Daedra who appeared as a beautiful, alluring human woman!

Oh, wait... https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daedra_Seducer

The complaint is it's over done not that it didn't exist before. And in this case, due to the lack of otherworldly features apart from the wings, looks more generic.

Ah, so it's all about the choice of hair color, hairdo, clothing, etc.?

What's the word I'm looking for?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

"b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉ"

So dark, straight hair, with a scanty and revealing robe, along with batlike wings, is okay because those things immediately conjure up associations with evil and demonic creatures, whereas blonde hair and angelic wings couldn't possibly be okay for Daedra to use. Okay, whatever. How shallow are the minds of mere mortals that they can't see past surface appearances.

I mean I have a higher standard for the Princes than regular Daedra. They should be standouts. But, beyond that, I think that it's generally a less interesting design choice. The Dark Seducers, for example, have a more standout design.

In general, this franchise seems to becoming more and more generic with each iteration. When you look at Morrowind, Tamriel feels distinctive from other similar games in the genre. But, at a certain point they decided that nobody would even notice if magic was gone. And their designs have become more human and less high fantasy over time. And now we have a Daedric prince who is giving Victoria's Secret.

aspergalas4

Syldras wrote: »

Rolled the dice a few times.







Yeah, still a young woman, I know.

Amazing how AI continues to exhibit more creativity than people that are paid for their supposed creative talents. First image actually looks very similar to what I would imagine a new female Daedric Prince would look like without context.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

aspergalas4 wrote: »

The appearance of Ithelia simply doesn't look Daedric enough, the glass shard aesthetic is unique but her appearance beyond that is rather mundane for an entity that is as otherworldly as Daedra are.

Sheo appears as literally just a guy in a Two-Face suit. Azura appears as literally just a dark elf holding a moon and star. Nocturnal is just a chick with a skimpy robe and a couple raven pets. I mean jeez, Meridia's IN GAME model is just a transparent female Breton NPC. Malacath is just an orc in a loincloth.

In fact, the only Princes with particularly "Otherworldly" appearances are Mora, Peryite, Mephala, Bal, and Dagon. Maybe Hircine too, but he's basically just a normal dude with a stag skull.



Azura in Morrowind^

Like, how is this "otherworldly" if Ithelia is "mundane"?

Really feels like one of those scenarios of "this is something new so I hate it".

Going by your feelings is probably why you are so off the mark then. People really are missing the point being made here and it actually makes me laugh. Don't retort to something if you don't understand what is being said. There is no point in adding a new prince unless they are unreservedly unique in their goals and appearance. Adding a prince for the sake of it creates more problems than the intrigue it creates, in this case there is no intrigue because there is nothing interesting about this new supposedly threatening prince. It's a women with tattoos with some glass wings.

FeedbackOnly

Important question ⚠️

Can we get that hair in game

Elsonso

.

Syldras wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Look closer at the hand on the left side of the pic. Five fingers + a thumb.

Yes, and the other hand only has 4.

Still totals up correctly. Not seeing the problem, here.

laniakea_0

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

What if Tho'at IS ithelia!

she is not. from what little we've seen, Tho'at comes from the daedric plane of Mirrormoor, which the next dungeons will revolve around and which Ithelia appears to be at least associated with. It is also possible that Mirrormoor is her realm, but I think Fargrave may also be a likely candidate.