Weakening Glyph can break the Endless Archive Bosses. Changes needs to happen.
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merevie✭✭✭✭✭At this point every single person who watches any streamer (and we've all seen Devs in those streams after EA launched) or is not under a rock understands this setup. And most people still play their own way with the vast majority not getting past Arc 3.
If this is messed with, two things will happen. 1. It will mess with a whole lot of other dependent systems because we all know how smoothly 'fixes go'. and 2. players will immed find a new meta to replace this one -endlessly.
Let the sweaty bois have their fun, 3 day long, pve experience with their fav enchantment setups. It's def not attractive to the majority.
Edited by merevie on November 28, 2023 6:01PM15 -
Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »I honestly don't think it needs a nerf, mostly because of how limited the glyph is to begin with.
... the weakening effect will only apply to one enemy at a time...
The Slottable Champion Point Perk "Cutting Defense" allows your weapon enchantment to proc onto more than one enemy. And even while blocking.
That being said, I agree with you in that I don't think that the damage needs to be addressed, because even if they modified the damage equation, you would still be better off running the weakening enchantment. The EA is all about survivability. ZoS knows what the builds are and what the combination of sets that are being used entail.The Vegemite Knight3 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yup, I honestly do not see the devs "intending" this to happen. Once again, something specific is over performing. You can't tell me this content was meant to have damage negated this way. not buying it. TY OP for bringing this up.1 -
a_u_s_t_y✭✭✭It’s fine.. I’ve done multiple runs and not seen one FE or AE - the rng is pretty terrible.. what sucks is that there aren’t many viable builds and it’s feels like a proper time waste when you spend an hour+ getting to arc 3 with no FE or AE and resetting cause your damage is terrible without them
Buff other buffs, make more builds viable6 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember something like this happening in Trials weekly scoreboard and Maelstrom possibly, but ZOS cleared the scoreboards and started them over fresh after the fix.0 -
Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭Make the amount of damage that you receive affect your score. This solves the weakening issue and the magma shell issue without affecting other areas of the game.The Vegemite Knight0
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pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭This isn't the only issue with some builds in EA, but considering the previously highly unfair and poorly balanced nerfs, I don't feel like sharing any of these on an open forum for them to adopt their usual sledgehammer approach.
When they fix stranglers to be beyond niche, then maybe I will have a modicum of faith again.4 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭In all honesty If weakening glyph alone would be that strong than nightblade with alessia's bulwark would be a meta in endless archive.1 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In all honesty If weakening glyph alone would be that strong than nightblade with alessia's bulwark would be a meta in endless archive.
After all this talk, I’m tempted to kit my Blade.
Both forms of Cowardice are AoE and can be kept up 100% of the time, so Nightblade finally has a fighting chance in EA.2 -
AlterBlika✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »After all this talk, I’m tempted to kit my Blade.
Both forms of Cowardice are AoE and can be kept up 100% of the time, so Nightblade finally has a fighting chance in EA.
Except these debuffs are a joke compared to the glyph combo0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just give us more options, honestly.
Focused Efforts and Attuned Enchantments are not just the best options, they really are the only options for later arcs.
3% increased direct damage visions just aren't enough when even simple wolves start to get vet dungeon bosses levels of hp and damage.
btw you can also use the same torugs/heartland setup to get 40k dmg shields like every 2 seconds.
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Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlterBlika wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »After all this talk, I’m tempted to kit my Blade.
Both forms of Cowardice are AoE and can be kept up 100% of the time, so Nightblade finally has a fighting chance in EA.
Except these debuffs are a joke compared to the glyph combo
Why not combine both? lol0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounds to me as though the Attuned Vision is the problem since that is literally the only new/changed element vs. years of established gameplay where Weakening/Infused/Torug's/Heartland was never an issue.
Adjust Attuned and leave everything else alone.3 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah and nightblade can apply additionally almost 650 wep/spell dmg reduction in the form of AoEs and with 100% uptimes. Assuming wep/spell dmg reductions are so strong that should make nightblade one of the strongest setups for EA since he could basically reduce bosses dmg even more (by 3,5k) and have high dmg reduction on trash packs (up to 1k when using alessia's bulwark). But somehow nightblades are not doing that great in EA.
That trick with weakening glyph, torug+heartland and attuned enhancements is nice but it really isnt anything gamebreaking in longer run. Yes it lowers bosses dmg but on attacks that You would be prepared for anyway, it does not much in trash fights and it relies heavily on getting proper visions fast enough. Have You seen overwhelming amount of high solo scores being done with that setup? I havn't. And if that setup would be as OP as You claim we should see atleast every second score in top 10 scores for every class being performed with it because let''s be honest most people interrested in the subject knew about that already. It's too gimmicky and one trick pony to make a overwhelming difference in a long run.
And fact it can go up to 2,9k doesnt mean it will go that much. 9 out of 10 times You wont be even getting 3 stacks of attuned enchantments before Your run ends. It's the same story as with focused efforts, it's strong vision, basically OP if You get 3+ stacks but good luck with that.
If anything is gamebreaking in EA it's DK's magma armor on a proper setup.Edited by Galeriano on November 29, 2023 12:25AM4 -
YetAnotherLinuxUser✭✭✭✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Yup, I honestly do not see the devs "intending" this to happen. Once again, something specific is over performing. You can't tell me this content was meant to have damage negated this way. not buying it. TY OP for bringing this up.
light attack weaving was never intended either but look at where we are. leave it alone. lets nerf light attacjk weaving first and foremost.4 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I suppose one possible "solution" (if there's really something to solve here) might be to make a buff less effective each additional time the same vision is stacked (which could go in hand with making the "first" instance of a lot of the less desirable visions stronger).1 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sordidfairytale wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »I honestly don't think it needs a nerf, mostly because of how limited the glyph is to begin with.
... the weakening effect will only apply to one enemy at a time...
The Slottable Champion Point Perk "Cutting Defense" allows your weapon enchantment to proc onto more than one enemy. And even while blocking.
That being said, I agree with you in that I don't think that the damage needs to be addressed, because even if they modified the damage equation, you would still be better off running the weakening enchantment. The EA is all about survivability. ZoS knows what the builds are and what the combination of sets that are being used entail.
That CP does not bypass enchantment cooldowns. Yes enchantment may proc on different enemies but never at the same time, You need to wait for enchantment cooldown to finish for it to proc again which actually makes that CP horrible with setup focused on weakening glyph since in fights where there is boss or some primary target and some other adds it could proc on some random adds and would not be able to proc on primary target for couple of seconds basically ruining whole idea of lowering boss dmg.Edited by Galeriano on November 28, 2023 11:42PM3 -
ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Should've tweaked the skill coefficients from vet monsters instead of importing them from normal, whoops. I fear this will become some poor intern's job for the next couple months.1 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Should've tweaked the skill coefficients from vet monsters instead of importing them from normal, whoops. I fear this will become some poor intern's job for the next couple months.
Seems like Marauder Gothmau was imported from Dread Cellar Veteran Hardmode with none of the side boss crystal buffs to rely on...
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Definitely seems like its the visions that are the issue here and not the build or the enchants themselves.
That build outside of EA is 800 weapon/spell damage reduction at most which is slightly ahead of running both major + minor cowardice, but to get that you give up 2, 5 piece sets plus enchants and more.
You're forced to build into that specific niche and pray that you get lucky enough to get the correct visions on your run to have the build work long enough to carry you high enough into the Arcs to make it worth it.
If anything should be toned down, it would be the stacking of the visions. Maybe make them not stack to the point where it equals 100% damage reduction, but caps out at say 80% reduction instead (roughly equal to the current meta PvE tanking setups for other content).
This seems like a fair compromise to me. It tones down the peak potential of this build, without touching the sets that are very mediocre outside of this specific niche build that is only viable in EA and only with those specific visions stacked high enough.4 -
YetAnotherLinuxUser✭✭✭✭There should be no compromise and no comparison to current meta. current meta not welcomed here. stop trying to force your preferred play on everyone else.2
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CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »If anything should be toned down, it would be the stacking of the visions. Maybe make them not stack to the point where it equals 100% damage reduction, but caps out at say 80% reduction instead (roughly equal to the current meta PvE tanking setups for other content).
The only Visions that I've been able to stack beyond 3 is Health/Magicka/Stamina Recovery Visions. I had a run with over 3500 Health/Magicka Recovery a few nights ago. Twas bananas.
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MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Should've tweaked the skill coefficients from vet monsters instead of importing them from normal, whoops. I fear this will become some poor intern's job for the next couple months.
Seems like Marauder Gothmau was imported from Dread Cellar Veteran Hardmode with none of the side boss crystal buffs to rely on...
He sort looks like the Count of Something from the Atoll of Immolation. The havercel tower.
PS5/NA0 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't pray you get FE EA, you do the first 3 arcs, if you have not got at least 1 of each, start over. it is not worth the slog later on.
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't pray you get FE EA, you do the first 3 arcs, if you have not got at least 1 of each, start over. it is not worth the slog later on.
Yeah, all these talks of nerfs on something completely dependent on RNG is frankly ridiculous. I have ran EA without even seeing single good vision before.
Wonder if these players ever tried running with only max health, resource recovery, break free resource return, block cost reduction 2% damage boost/mitigation visions showing up? Let me tell you from my experience that you don't get far with those at all.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel4 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »You don't pray you get FE EA, you do the first 3 arcs, if you have not got at least 1 of each, start over. it is not worth the slog later on.
Yeah, all these talks of nerfs on something completely dependent on RNG is frankly ridiculous. I have ran EA without even seeing single good vision before.
Wonder if these players ever tried running with only max health, resource recovery, break free resource return, block cost reduction 2% damage boost/mitigation visions showing up? Let me tell you from my experience that you don't get far with those at all.
RNG would be at the very tippy top of my nerf list. Yes luck plays far far too large a part. Considering the obsession with the leaderboards I find that odd. Shouldn't be more about skill than luck? I get RNG in ToT, it's a card game, luck is just part of that genre, but dungeons/arenas? Not so much.
PS5/NA3 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah and nightblade can apply additionally almost 650 wep/spell dmg reduction in the form of AoEs and with 100% uptimes. Assuming wep/spell dmg reductions are so strong that should make nightblade one of the strongest setups for EA since he could basically reduce bosses dmg even more (by 3,5k) and have high dmg reduction on trash packs (up to 1k when using alessia's bulwark). But somehow nightblades are not doing that great in EA.
That trick with weakening glyph, torug+heartland and attuned enhancements is nice but it really isnt anything gamebreaking in longer run. Yes it lowers bosses dmg but on attacks that You would be prepared for anyway, it does not much in trash fights and it relies heavily on getting proper visions fast enough. Have You seen overwhelming amount of high solo scores being done with that setup? I havn't. And if that setup would be as OP as You claim we should see atleast every second score in top 10 scores for every class being performed with it because let''s be honest most people interrested in the subject knew about that already. It's too gimmicky and one trick pony to make a overwhelming difference in a long run.
And fact it can go up to 2,9k doesnt mean it will go that much. 9 out of 10 times You wont be even getting 3 stacks of attuned enchantments before Your run ends. It's the same story as with focused efforts, it's strong vision, basically OP if You get 3+ stacks but good luck with that.
If anything is gamebreaking in EA it's DK's magma armor on a proper setup.
Decimus who took practically every solo top score ran this setup, the only difference being also running Hardening, which is also quite insane, for the same reasons. Lucht who made it to Arc 29 in duo ran it as well, not running Torugs. As far as I know a lot of the other top scores are using this glyph setup as well, difference is just which bar the hardening is on and which the weakening is on. I haven't asked every person on the leaderboard, but I am farely certain that on PC EU it's at least 8/10 of the top 10 on ever class, the only exeption bring DKs because of Magma.Most OwOrated healer of all time0 -
Sirona_Starr✭✭✭✭✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Adjust your build they say, finds good build. Oh no too OP - nerf it!
Can't stop laughing XD
Awesome and true haha10