Weakening Glyph can break the Endless Archive Bosses. Changes needs to happen.

Heelie

The bosses in Endless Archive are all imported from the normal version of the content they're from, this means that a lot of bosses can be reduced to close to 0 weapon damage (with the right traits and the Attuned Buff), even in later Arcs such as Arc 8 or 9+. This is not a bug, just how they game works. But ZOS really needs to up the weapon and spell damage of the bosses so that weakening is not this powerful. Because of just how strong weakening is, almost every single top score build is centered around buffing it currently, often with a mix of Torugs and Heartland Conqueror. I believe this was'nt inteded by the develepors when they made the Endless Archive.









These pictures are just 3 Attuned Enchanted Buffs and are fights as far up as Arc 7, as you can see I take < 500 damage every second, even from some of the Harder boss fights in the Archive. Some cycles bosses have so little weapon damage that they can be taken to a literal 0, even before a maxed out enchantment buffs.

James-Wayne

Working as intended.

Move along nothing to see here.

CGPsaint

Please do not encourage ZOS to buff Marauder Gothmau's weapon damage...

ESO_player123

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) instead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Necrotech_Master

whats funny is that attuned enchantment vision actually did not buff weakening/increase dmg glyphs and they fixed it so it would affect those lol

it sounds like the most optimal enchantment setup is increase dmg back bar and weakening front bar so your both heavily buffing your own dmg while reducing the enemies lol

i think its another reason people were also suggesting armor like alessia bulwark (which reduces melee attackers dmg by 350, no cooldown)

MidniteOwl1913

So exactly what is the Attuned Enchanted Buff.

Necrotech_Master

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

So exactly what is the Attuned Enchanted Buff.

+75% effectiveness to your enchantment, per stack

Heelie

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) instead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

AlterBlika

So few people know of pve mobs having weapon damage, even devs didn't know that it seems

NoSoup

lol it's not the weakening glyph that is the issue but the Attuned Enchanted Buff (which, with RNG you can go an entire playthrough without getting once, I've had 4 solo runs to Arc 4 in a row without getting it once).

Based ony your logic, you'd be buffing the bosses so that its harder for one specific build that MIGHT get a certain vision and could get even luckier to stack that vision. Making the whole thing harder for every other build just to tone done potential effects of one specific build is not balancing.

YetAnotherLinuxUser

you forgot to mention infused trait

Heelie

NoSoup wrote: »

lol it's not the weakening glyph that is the issue but the Attuned Enchanted Buff (which, with RNG you can go an entire playthrough without getting once, I've had 4 solo runs to Arc 4 in a row without getting it once).

Based ony your logic, you'd be buffing the bosses so that its harder for one specific build that MIGHT get a certain vision and could get even luckier to stack that vision. Making the whole thing harder for every other build just to tone done potential effects of one specific build is not balancing.

Again you can increase the weapon and spell damage, but at the same time decrease the modifier. This way damage stays the same for builds not centered around weakening, why is this hard to understand?

spartaxoxo

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Heelie

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Damage is not just a result of the bosses weapon and spell damage, there is are other modifier that essentially scales multiplicative with it, decrease this accordingly, and damage stays the same.

robpr

It's the same "issue" as with Focused Efforts. It's just all other damage increasers or decreasers are just too weak, with only 6% bonus per stack, there is no reason to build them unless those two shows up paired with weakening apart maybe Avatar visions. When trash mobs are reaching 1mil in health and Gothmau's LA is doing 95% of your hp in a tap, there is not much you can do.

virtus753

Heelie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Damage is not just a result of the bosses weapon and spell damage, there is are other modifier that essentially scales multiplicative with it, decrease this accordingly, and damage stays the same.

What exactly are these other factors that go into the bosses’ damage in addition to weapon and spell damage?

My partner and I have been trying to test the Cowardices, and we would appreciate information on what contributes to mob damage besides the WD/SD stat. The game does not seem to provide it.

Necrotech_Master

robpr wrote: »

It's the same "issue" as with Focused Efforts. It's just all other damage increasers or decreasers are just too weak, with only 6% bonus per stack, there is no reason to build them unless those two shows up paired with weakening apart maybe Avatar visions. When trash mobs are reaching 1mil in health and Gothmau's LA is doing 95% of your hp in a tap, there is not much you can do.

yeah i think this is the largest problem

the endless archive type of game mode is supposed to allow ridiculous builds like this to happen, but a lot of it is RNG

however right now there is a huge imbalance in terms of what is a good buff or not

xp/gold visions are absolutely worthless
the pet buff vision can be OK for niche builds or certain classes

then you have others like max stat increases which are 6%, which are OK, but not great

bad ones like 3% increased direct dmg which doesnt even compare to others, like 25% increased pet dmg, or 500% focused efforts or 75% attuned enchantments or equipped poisons

3% ult cost reduction is probably fine, because you would have to stack it 33 times to get -99% ult cost reduction

valenwood_vegan

While I do see how OP raised an issue that could be addressed in some way, I'd really prefer that they buff the boring and underperforming visions (of which there are many), instead of potentially nerfing the good ones too far. We all know how that nerf hammer can get when it starts swingin'...

NoSoup

Heelie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Damage is not just a result of the bosses weapon and spell damage, there is are other modifier that essentially scales multiplicative with it, decrease this accordingly, and damage stays the same.

Well this is purely speculative, the only "varible" we know bosses have is wp/spell power. It may well be that they have infinite magic/stamina resources so that we don't get a sitution where somehow bosses have run out of resources to attack and so their damage mainly scales purely off wp/spell damage. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the server coding you can't really say well they have this and that also....

Necrotech_Master

NoSoup wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Damage is not just a result of the bosses weapon and spell damage, there is are other modifier that essentially scales multiplicative with it, decrease this accordingly, and damage stays the same.

Well this is purely speculative, the only "varible" we know bosses have is wp/spell power. It may well be that they have infinite magic/stamina resources so that we don't get a sitution where somehow bosses have run out of resources to attack and so their damage mainly scales purely off wp/spell damage. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the server coding you can't really say well they have this and that also....

NPC enemies are like companions, and have no mag or stam, as all the attacks are cooldown based (including core stuff like block and dodge rolls)

the only reason we know that they are affected by -spell and weapon dmg effects is that is easily testable

i dont think anything really needs to be changed, because its not like anything you do in the archive really can be traded, everything bought with the archive currency is bound, and class gear is only temp tradeable if you ran with a partner

so to be honest there is no real reason to go past arc 4 unless you were challenging yourself or because you cared about being competitive with the leaderboard

Heelie

NoSoup wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

May be it's better to fix the root of the issue (the glyph + the buff or whatever that is) nstead of blindly upping all bosses' damage and ruining EA for those players that are not min/maxing, running optimal setups, or generally great at combat?

Where in this post did I ask them to increase damage, I only ask them to increase weapon and spell damage, they can then decrease the modifier accordingly, so that damage stays the same. Stop this fear mongering.

Not everyone has that glyph. I had no idea that was even a thing tbh. It wouldn't stay the same for people who aren't using it.

Damage is not just a result of the bosses weapon and spell damage, there is are other modifier that essentially scales multiplicative with it, decrease this accordingly, and damage stays the same.

Well this is purely speculative, the only "varible" we know bosses have is wp/spell power. It may well be that they have infinite magic/stamina resources so that we don't get a sitution where somehow bosses have run out of resources to attack and so their damage mainly scales purely off wp/spell damage. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the server coding you can't really say well they have this and that also....

We know they have weapon and spell damage and no magicka / stamina because decreasing their spell damage by 80% decreases damage of all attacks by 80%, this is also what we use to calculate the weapon and spel damage in the first place. But we also know that damage of attacks are different so they all have different modifiers to this weapon and spell damage.

weapon and dmg for bosses is 2390 for cycle 1, 2590 2, 2790 3, 2990 4. Calculated by Lucht.
This means that by 5 Attuned , with an infused Weakening glyph and HC + Torugs. All bosses will have 0 weapon and spell damage till Arc 4 where they will have 25. This means the only damage taken is invioment damage that is not linked to the boss.

YetAnotherLinuxUser

o let me paphrase. this craftable gear is accessible to everyone and can help them do really well in endless archive so it needs nerfed because i who have played x number of years to obtain trial gears am threatened by the posability that some new player will outdo me or do as well as me and i dont want that? is that an acurate restating of the concern in the OP?

Heelie

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

o let me paphrase. this craftable gear is accessible to everyone and can help them do really well in endless archive so it needs nerfed because i who have played x number of years to obtain trial gears am threatened by the posability that some new player will outdo me or do as well as me and i dont want that? is that an acurate restating of the concern in the OP?

More like that a certain combination of gear is over performing, and that it's most likely not intended. If I did'nt want new players to "outdo" me why would I share this information, much better to keep it to myself.

Tyrant_Tim

RIP Minor & Major Cowardice

AlterBlika

Maybe just ban weakening from being buffed by this vision

AlterBlika

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RIP Minor & Major Cowardice

Oh no my nb cries in pain

YetAnotherLinuxUser

so that leaves us with what the old light attack weaving and nothing else because any thing else that performs better than light attack weaving gets nerfed

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

o let me paphrase. this craftable gear is accessible to everyone and can help them do really well in endless archive so it needs nerfed because i who have played x number of years to obtain trial gears am threatened by the posability that some new player will outdo me or do as well as me and i dont want that? is that an acurate restating of the concern in the OP?

Yep. Spot on.

NoSoup

Let's ban the necropotence set and increase max magicka vision too. And you shouldn't be aloud to use any of the visions that increase your critical while wearing mothers sorrow. Wardens shouldn't have access to the vision that increases their max health because they already have minor tuffness and that's unfair to my non warden class....

jle30303

I, for one, would appreciate people not complaining that any monsters are too *weak* - considering that for what seems the majority of normal players, the opposite is true. This is content that is for everybody: it's not gated behind a mode called "veteran" or behind the necessity for a group: all players should be able to have nice things in it.

Since it is not actively gated, my opinion is basically that ordinary players should be able to clear at least wave 1 without too much difficulty.

Hapexamendios

Leave it alone.