No Class Skills Builds

Destai

Hey all,

Just curious if anyone's ever accomplished a build without class skills. I'm thinking either mag or stam, just looking for ways to breathe new life into some classes I don't like. Anything good out there? Gear wise, I'd probably run the usual Zaan, PoN, and Rele sets.

IZZEFlameLash

Stam is kind of a way to go about it but you probably will have to still back bar some staff skill depending on circumstances.

Just look up NB DPS PvE build. They kinda have the least amount of class skills.

Nestor

Weapon skill builds just use classes for passives

Billium813

Class Skills > Generic Skills (Weapon/Guild/Alliance)

Generic Skills are accessible to all Classes; Class Skills are only accessible by that specific Class. If a Class Skill is objectively worse then one found in a Generic Skill line, then it would become a dead Skills. If the Class, which is the only one that has access to it, won't even use it, then who will?

The way this is balanced out is that not all Classes Skills should have access to all functionality! A Class without native access to a specific function must then rely on Generic Skills that are objectively worse, yet still functional. This should lead to a natural mixture of Class Skills that are strong, and Generic Skills that fill in the gaps.

This means there really shouldn't be a situation where a player ONLY uses Generic Skills. They would be then only be using subpar Skills, even compared to what they should have access to with their Class! Also, it means that there shouldn't be a situation where a player ONLY uses Class Skills! That would be ideal to the player, but it would mean that the Class has access to too much functionality. It's important that Classes have weak spots (even if players don't like it) and that Generic Skill lines act as a toolbox.

This is just my opinion of how it should be though. I'm not a dev.

bar_boss_A

Try following:

Templar (strongest on WW -> strongest without class skills)

Frontbar: BRP-Bow
Backbar: Maelstrom-Twohanded
Body: Rele

Then you can either run pillar jewelry or Wading kilt + Zaan

These weapons give you a good amount of solid(meta skills) DoTs, BRP hits like a truck and replaces your class burst ability (when used at min range it lasts 4s). For your spammable you have some choices: either use snipe from bow or, if too clunky for you, elemental weapon from psijic, or silver shards if you want a small AoE component. But this will only get you around 100k DpS parses.

Destai

Thanks for the comments guys!

So I tried a destro staff based build rounded out with some MG and FG skills, and got around 66k DPS. Not bad, not great.

I agree with the sentiments here though, that stamina's going to be better suited, so that's my next experiment.

OBJnoob

I don't know much about PvE but I've been thinking on this anyway cuz it's an interesting topic.

A character using DW and Bow... Wearing Deadly Strike, and the Maelstrom DW. Rapid Strikes would be your spammable, then Rending Slashes and Poison Injection... And I don't really know what else, but that might be a decent foundation?

bar_boss_A

Destai wrote: »

Thanks for the comments guys!

So I tried a destro staff based build rounded out with some MG and FG skills, and got around 66k DPS. Not bad, not great.

I agree with the sentiments here though, that stamina's going to be better suited, so that's my next experiment.

Yeah staves are weak - didn't change with the rework

bar_boss_A

OBJnoob wrote: »

I don't know much about PvE but I've been thinking on this anyway cuz it's an interesting topic.

A character using DW and Bow... Wearing Deadly Strike, and the Maelstrom DW. Rapid Strikes would be your spammable, then Rending Slashes and Poison Injection... And I don't really know what else, but that might be a decent foundation?

I was running a similar setup on DK for a long time - then they changed sticky DoTs and forgot to update Maelstrom Dual Wield to adjust to the new situation

jaws343

with a few slight adjustments, my Solo Sorc build can pretty much be done without class skills.

Sets: Mothers Sorrow, False God, Death Dealer, 1 Slime, 1 Maelstrom Inferno Back Bar

FB:
Meteor
Force Pulse
Inner Light
Ele Drain
Degeneration (Or Structured Entropy for a HOT)
Soul Splitting Trap for multiple target DOT (Maybe Fire Rune)

BB:
Destro Ult
Wall of Elements
Barbed Trap
Energy Orb
Dampen Mag
Vigor

At the end of the day, it is not going to be as strong as a build using class skills, and it is mostly going to be a Guild/Weapon line setup.

Zodiarkslayer

I'd go Dual Wield front and TwoHand Maelstrom backbar.

The tricky question is: what class?
Warden has no power without animal companion skills, so its out. There are 3 passives that work without class skills.
Necro is too weak, even with a lot of class skills. 3 passives will work, though.
Arcanist is depending on crux. So, No. 2 Class passives will work regardless.
That leaves the 4 base classes.

DK has sustain issues without regular flame and poison procs. So tricky, but manageable. 5 class passives will work.
Nightblade has a lot of its power tied to slotting at least one class ability. I'd vote nay on this one. 4 Class Passives will work.
Sorcerer is also kind of dependent on slotting class skills, but will still have a decent power left. 6 Class Passives will work.
That leaves Templar, but they have little to no power without at least some class skills. 3 will work, one of them being resurrection speed increase, which is irrelevant.

The DK has one passive that increases damage left, World in Ruin. Which is only 5% for poison and flame attacks.
Sorc gets that for Lightning and Physical with the Energized passive. But also has Amplitude (10% to 0% damage done) and 4 sustain passives.

It seems Sorcerer is the clear winner. But it's not exactly impressive. Waddayathing?

MudcrabAttack

If the goal is to breathe new life into a class by not “using” the class skills, are you open to slotting them somewhere and simply not casting them?

Nightblade hits pretty hard if you just slot relentless focus somewhere and forget about it, 400 extra weapon damage is nice to have, like having simmering frenzy on all the time. The rest of the class passives are pretty big without slotting anything extra, like flanking for almost 3k penetration, and extra resources returning every time something you damage dies (you don’t need the killing blow)

But you can also pick up an extra 10% crit damage just having an assassination skill slotted (don’t have to use it) 2% crit chance for every assassin skill slotted (don’t have to use it), +10 ultimate generation for each kill if soul harvest is slotted (don’t have to use it), major savagery for slotting shadowy disguise on back bar (don’t have to use it).

You can be about 75% as efficient as a maxed out nightblade by just casting a ground AOE and spamming anything

AcadianPaladin

I have an Oakenbow stamsorc who doesn't use any sorc skills. She works fairly well and switching in some sorc skills does not improve her. No matter what I do with her, she's not as effective as my Oakenbow stamward (who does use class skills of course).

Destai

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I'd go Dual Wield front and TwoHand Maelstrom backbar.

The tricky question is: what class?
Warden has no power without animal companion skills, so its out. There are 3 passives that work without class skills.
Necro is too weak, even with a lot of class skills. 3 passives will work, though.
Arcanist is depending on crux. So, No. 2 Class passives will work regardless.
That leaves the 4 base classes.

DK has sustain issues without regular flame and poison procs. So tricky, but manageable. 5 class passives will work.
Nightblade has a lot of its power tied to slotting at least one class ability. I'd vote nay on this one. 4 Class Passives will work.
Sorcerer is also kind of dependent on slotting class skills, but will still have a decent power left. 6 Class Passives will work.
That leaves Templar, but they have little to no power without at least some class skills. 3 will work, one of them being resurrection speed increase, which is irrelevant.

The DK has one passive that increases damage left, World in Ruin. Which is only 5% for poison and flame attacks.
Sorc gets that for Lightning and Physical with the Energized passive. But also has Amplitude (10% to 0% damage done) and 4 sustain passives.

It seems Sorcerer is the clear winner. But it's not exactly impressive. Waddayathing?

Good insight. FWIW, I tried my magicka non-class build on a DK, and I noticed the sustain wasn't holding up. I still managed to pull 66k DPS on a 21M dummy. But that was just messing around, and I didn't keep the loadout.

So, I'm trying to solve two problems:
1. I have a spare templar (Imperial) that I want to re-engage. My main templar, a high elf, wound up as a DW/Bow-based stamplar. I initially intended them to be a bowplar, but couldn't get the parsing numbers I wanted, and went with the meta build. So, my spare templar fell to the side as a result and I'm looking for a viable build on them. If I can get 70k DPS, I'd be happy. I've tried bash builds to mixed results.
2. I have a necro that I want my money out of. I've long disliked this class, and have tried so many things to get some enjoyment out of them. I figured at this point a classless build would be a good solution.

Remathilis

My Oakenwolf uses these skills in her human form

Stampede
Carve
Reverse Slice
Razor Caltrops
Resolving Vigor
Pack Leader

SandandStars

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I have an Oakenbow stamsorc who doesn't use any sorc skills. She works fairly well and switching in some sorc skills does not improve her. No matter what I do with her, she's not as effective as my Oakenbow stamward (who does use class skills of course).

@AcadianPaladin — would love to get a peek at your Oakenbow Stamward! I’ve been tinkering with Oakenbow wardens for a few weeks and am very curious!

AcadianPaladin

@SandandStars

My Oakenbow Warden.

Bosmer race (only race I play, lol). Thief Mundus. All (64) stamina. All medium gear (5xHundings Rage, 5xBriarheart, 1xSlimecraw, Oakensoul). Sharpened trait on bow with poison enchantment. Armor traited with infused (big pieces), divines on rest – all enchanted with +stam. Jewelry traited with infused and enchanted with spell/weapon damage. Blue health + stam food (Ragout).

Skills: I tend to favor mag skills for timed ones and stam for spamming – to help balance resource sustainability.
1. Vigor (I run with a tank companion so ‘heal others’ is important).
2. Budding Seeds or Green Lotus – same as above only these are magicaka heals.
3. Deep Fissure – nice damage, major & minor breach.
4. Flex between Bombard for trash fights, Soul Splitting Trap for bosses with trash, Structured Entropy for dangerous bosses where I need the self-heals more than the AoE.
5. Silver Shards. Good spammable with some AoE + snare.

The tank companion lets her focus on damage/rotation but we have to keep the companion healed – works well.
We mostly run solo with bear and tank companion. Can solo most normal non-DLC group dungeons and most non-DLC WBs. For parses, we use the unbuffed 3M dummy and pull 25.4k dps; can pull about the same on easier WB fights. Mostly though, she’s fun and flexible.

Zodiarkslayer

@AcadianPaladin
Wow, might I ask a few questions? You made me curious, too.

Do you have good sustain on this build? I mean Magicka sustain. It sounds like you will have trouble in longer fights.

Have you tried Tzogvin's Warband and/or Order's Wrath? You might be better up with these sets, instead of Hunding's Rage.

Do you really need two or three heals for your content? I would think Seeds should be enough, because it is for my Oakensoul HA mag Warden /w Sharp as Tank.
I mean, you could be running Fetcher Flies or Poison Arrow, for example.

Do you position within 15m or beyond? I ask because of the new Vinedusk passive and the Echoing Vigor's heal range.

Thanks

Edit: I just looked it up in @phaneub17_ESO 's guide to companions, because I wasn't sure: Healing companions with Lotus is tricky. It is programmed to prioritize players, including yourself. Meaning, it doesn't matter if your comp is about to die. If you have 1 hp missing, you will get healed. Not them.
Also, Vigor isn't that great of a heal for companions as a Warden. It triggers Maturation, sure , but no other class passsives.

AcadianPaladin

@Zodiarkslayer thanks for your thoughtful insights. Some good ideas in there.

I stay within 15m of the tank companion for Vigor. I run the 'heals two' morph of Lotus and it works okay for the companion as long as there are no randoms around. Budding Seeds is a better and more reliable burst, and can usually work - just have to watch magicika if I have to use it alot. I tend to prefer Vigor because usually a nice long HoT (Vigor) keeps the companion up and we slot Vanish on the companion for her own burst. Since the bear and companion are always side by side Vigor or Seeds works fine. The only time I have to watch sustain is in longer fights and then it is stam I have to watch. Paying attention and including HA's as needed helps there but does indeed drop dps a bit. Thankfully, Empower helps those HA's. Empower also makes opening a fight with a HA a great option. A stealth HA chased by Silver Shards usually one shots trash foes.

I confess a strong affection for healing and I think that's why I give myself the luxury of normally running Vigor and Seeds. That way I can keep a HoT (Vigor) on the companion and bear as well as reach out to any randoms in trouble with Seeds. If I just ran seeds and added another timed damage spell I'd run into sustain problems I'm sure - either stam or mag depending on which type of spell I slotted.

The Warden healing passives are a good thought. I'll try running just Seeds and see if I can (mag) sustain that.


Edit: Okay, just tried dropping Vigor for Growing Swarm and relying on Seeds for heals as needed. Also gave the tank companion a second self heal. Initial results are encouraging. Just ran nDS1 (solo) and combat metrix showed between 26 and 29 k on every single boss. That is a noticeable jump from my expected 25.5k. More importantly the changes were flexible enough as to provide consistent damage regardless of the boss situation. No problems with sustain or keeping tank companion up. Also provides the luxury of keeping Bombard slotted most of the time for its wonderful trash immobilization ability.

SandandStars

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@SandandStars

My Oakenbow Warden.

Bosmer race (only race I play, lol). Thief Mundus. All (64) stamina. All medium gear (5xHundings Rage, 5xBriarheart, 1xSlimecraw, Oakensoul). Sharpened trait on bow with poison enchantment. Armor traited with infused (big pieces), divines on rest – all enchanted with +stam. Jewelry traited with infused and enchanted with spell/weapon damage. Blue health + stam food (Ragout).

Skills: I tend to favor mag skills for timed ones and stam for spamming – to help balance resource sustainability.
1. Vigor (I run with a tank companion so ‘heal others’ is important).
2. Budding Seeds or Green Lotus – same as above only these are magicaka heals.
3. Deep Fissure – nice damage, major & minor breach.
4. Flex between Bombard for trash fights, Soul Splitting Trap for bosses with trash, Structured Entropy for dangerous bosses where I need the self-heals more than the AoE.
5. Silver Shards. Good spammable with some AoE + snare.

The tank companion lets her focus on damage/rotation but we have to keep the companion healed – works well.
We mostly run solo with bear and tank companion. Can solo most normal non-DLC group dungeons and most non-DLC WBs. For parses, we use the unbuffed 3M dummy and pull 25.4k dps; can pull about the same on easier WB fights. Mostly though, she’s fun and flexible.

Thank you so much for sharing your build @AcadianPaladin ! This is great info and very informative for me in particular because I very seldomly play PvE (just to get gear). I’m a PvPr.

Next time I’m running dungeons for gear I will definitely give this a try 😁

Zodiarkslayer

SandandStars wrote: »

..
Next time I’m running dungeons for gear I will definitely give this a try 😁

No need. Hundings Rage is crafted and Briarheart is overland.

Edit: Nevermind. I misread. 🤦‍♂️

Araneae6537

For fun I want to use a lot of Psijic skills on my magicka arcanist, maybe it doesn’t mechanically go with that class better than any other, buy with time-lines and fate being explored, I thought a winnly wonbly timeu wimeu build would be fun!

Are there sets that could further augment this? Or other recommendations? Thank you!

YandereGirlfriend

This build concept literally was what a StamSorc was before hybridization. It was the saddest possible class.

autocookies

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