Any idea on how to fix nightcapping without ruining the experience for others?

DaisyRay

Hih!

I understand there's already a discussion regarding PC NA Greyhost, where the Ebonheart Pact (EP) seems to have a massive point advantage over the other two factions. This appears to be due to the timing of when larger groups and guilds from EP are active, which is unfortunately the same time when most players on Greyhost have logged off. Initially, I thought this was done intentionally, but after chatting with others it seems to be a result of time zone differences. Many of these EP zergs are from Japan, creating a huge imbalance in pop.

So, is there a way to fix this issue without negatively impacting those who play in the Japan time zone? One idea I considered was to make it so that both DC and AD automatically receive low pop during this time. However, if they don't have any keeps or scrolls, this probably will not fix the problem.

I'm not really mad at it, because every faction zergs and takes everything when they can. It's just unfortunate for us that when EP does it, the majority of AD and DC aren't on to put up much of a defense. This isn't an attack on EP either, most of the players there are actually really nice and they are only doing what they should do. AD and DC would do the same if in their position.

I personally don't care about winning because we don't really get any prizes from it, but it often makes people leave pvp because try as they might, there is no defense against that. Some people even end up leaving the faction for an easy win, which makes the numbers per faction even more imbalanced.

So I'm just curious if anyone has ideas on how to fix this without messing up for one side or all sides.

Katheriah

Learn Japanese, infiltrate in the group, create a drama so big it forces the zerg to split in 3 camps of equal size of which one will feel forced to move to AD and the other to DC.

Although that probably counts as messing up.

Maybe a mechanism that would trigger an extreme decrease to rewards given for taking/having objectives by alliances that are much more populated than the others? I know the other way around we have the low pop and underdog bonus, but the other way around it also shouldn't really pay to zerg the map down with 3 bars against 1 bar.

adirondack

Easiest solution is for everyone to swap factions to EP and keep the Red Pain Train going all day long.

Seriously however, it’s up to the individual players to choose when they play and with which faction. A year ago it was DC with an over abundant player base. When the game first came out in 2014 it was AD.

So I don’t have a good solution for you. It is unfortunate the current state but in doubt ZOS cares much about campaign scores.

Tommy_The_Gun

There is really a simple solution to make night-capping affecting scoreboards significantly less, but at the same time keeping it still worth it for an easy AP.

Cyrodiil Alliance war and Scoring and capturing objectives is is a PvP activity. It gets harder to do if you face other players and easier if there is no one to defend. But the issue is - the reward is always the same. You always get 1 point for capturing objective and 10 for capturing an Elder Scroll (X2 if the Objective or Scroll belongs to your faction), regardless of how hard (or easy) it was.

PvP is kinda like a "player made content" - since other players are affecting the difficulty. But the issue here is that while other players are effecting the difficulty, they don't affect the reward. This is imho a serious design flaw. Even when it comes to AP, you get more if there were players fighting you, or less if you captured an empty, un-defended objective. Potential Points are an anomaly here, as it does not matter if there were players fighting you or not. This needs to be addressed, and there is a simple solution for that:

Make Potential Points to be depended from Cyrodiil population. How would that work:
1. Re-scale population bar from 3 bars+ Locked to 10 bars + Locked.
2. When you capture an enemy objective, the game would look at global Cyrodiil population and compare attackers vs defenders population. The bigger the difference - the less potential points bonus attackers would get. The game would "remember" that, till the objective is lost. If it gets re-taken, then the game again looks at population difference and applies a proper modifier. This would not affect your own faction's "home" objectives (Keeps, Resources, scrolls etc).

Example:

DC has 10 bars, & locked population while AD has 1 bar (empty). The Difference in population is 10 bars. Normally, if DC would capture AD objective - they get 1 point for it. But because the difference is 10 bars, they get 10X less points for it, so in order to get a single potential point - they need to capture 10 AD objectives. If they capture enemy Elder Scroll, while enemy has empty population, while they are at full, locked population - since they get 10X less points, they get only 1 point for scroll instead of 10.

If difference in population is for example 5X bars - then it is 5X less potential points, 2X difference - 2X less potential points etc. Again, the game would "remember" what was the population when objective was captured and it would remeber that for each objective. The way to "reset" the penalty to normal, would be to lose objective and re-take it when there is 0 difference in population bar.

This would reward active gameplay and defending attacking when the Cyrodiil population is full would be more rewarding, while "painting" the map on your population's colour would give you less points, while still having "some" effect on the final score. But - it would be significantly easier to recover from it during "active" phase, when more players are online. It could also be technically resistant to various exploits, as you would either need a very small group of players to capture everything (remember - 10 bars, so even like 10 players would be "noticed" by it), or it would need too many "afk" players logged in the opposing faction to pretend the populations are equal.

Sorry for the wall of text

reazea

DaisyRay wrote: »

Hih!

I understand there's already a discussion regarding PC NA Greyhost, where the Ebonheart Pact (EP) seems to have a massive point advantage over the other two factions. This appears to be due to the timing of when larger groups and guilds from EP are active, which is unfortunately the same time when most players on Greyhost have logged off. Initially, I thought this was done intentionally, but after chatting with others it seems to be a result of time zone differences. Many of these EP zergs are from Japan, creating a huge imbalance in pop.

So, is there a way to fix this issue without negatively impacting those who play in the Japan time zone? One idea I considered was to make it so that both DC and AD automatically receive low pop during this time. However, if they don't have any keeps or scrolls, this probably will not fix the problem.

I'm not really mad at it, because every faction zergs and takes everything when they can. It's just unfortunate for us that when EP does it, the majority of AD and DC aren't on to put up much of a defense. This isn't an attack on EP either, most of the players there are actually really nice and they are only doing what they should do. AD and DC would do the same if in their position.

I personally don't care about winning because we don't really get any prizes from it, but it often makes people leave pvp because try as they might, there is no defense against that. Some people even end up leaving the faction for an easy win, which makes the numbers per faction even more imbalanced.

So I'm just curious if anyone has ideas on how to fix this without messing up for one side or all sides.

I didn't see you posting about this when DC was doing the same thing for over a year, and it's only been this way with EP leading for 1.5 camps so far. With that said, I do agree with most of your points. (even if you are an AD player )

I think the core problem is so many years of performance issues in Cyro even though PvP is by far the best experience available in ESO, the population caps are just too low, so during prime time there is always too long of a wait time for new players to discover PvP now days. And lets face it, player turnover rate is off the charts in ESO after U35 and all those crazy restrictions that were implemented to test PvP performance a couple years ago with nothing to show for it. It makes it seem as though ZOS either can't fix the issues in PvP, or are simply unwilling to make the financial investments to make the needed fixes. i.e.- more server resources for Cyrodiil.

If ZOS would just go back to giving PvP at least a tiny bit of attention to balance, performance and raising the pop caps these population imbalance issues would work themselves out I think, as they used to during the glory days of PvP when pop caps were more than 4x what they are today.

I posted the changes that I think would help even things out in a different thread here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/643713/the-more-you-have-the-more-you-get-ap-scoring-system-in-cyrodiil#latest

I think the scoring system should heavily favor the gated, low population faction to encourage balance. We need something to encourage the AP junkies to swap to the gated, low pop faction. But at the same time, as it is now, the low pop bonus system does not work fairly at all with such low pop caps. So I think the solution is give AP bonus to the faction that is getting their hind end kicked, and that scoring adjustment has to happen in real time, not with some unknown time delay.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There is really a simple solution to make night-capping...

Make Potential Points to be depended from Cyrodiil population. How would that work:
1. Re-scale population bar from 3 bars+ Locked to 10 bars + Locked.
2. When you capture an enemy objective, the game would look at global Cyrodiil population and compare attackers vs defenders population. The bigger the difference - the less potential points bonus attackers would get. The game would "remember" that, till the objective is lost. If it gets re-taken, then the game again looks at population difference and applies a proper modifier. This would not affect your own faction's "home" objectives (Keeps, Resources, scrolls etc).
...

So this idea would be fine except it doesn't account for scaling of objectives flipping often during max pop times and rarely at imbalanced times.

The idea that we presented around 5 years ago at unfortunately never received a further clarifying answer other than 'we'll have to see if that's possible' was to scale the score evaluation timer to be dependant on population ratio's

So for example the timers would be with the following ratios:


Obviously this isn't just for when DC is high and the others low its just an example.

The reason scaling is better than score adjustments is because it allows for impacts of map control on the scoring. - Some group holds a keep at primetime for 30m? they get credit for that 6 times on the scoring vs all their efforts wasted because it was between hourly evaluation timers. Similarly if a group at low pop can take a resource in a good timing window they can claw back points before they are zerged down by the high pop faction. but that faction can't benefit from their stranglehold on the campaign as much.

Holycannoli

How about something simple like every point from controlling objectives is halved during the overnight period? Like maybe midnight - 8 AM according to the time zone of the server? Or maybe 2 AM - 8 AM for the NA server so the west coast time zone isn't screwed also (would be 11 PM - 5 AM for those on the west coast).

There really is no way to combat nightcapping without doing something to minimize the impact it has on the score.

I know a game that totally disallows capping outside a certain time window, and that window corresponds to the server's prime time and off time. If you have an odd work schedule or are from a different time zone than the server's, sorry you're out of luck. Play on a different server. PvP for objectives is disabled overnight.

I don't want to see that here but I don't want nightcapping to determine victories either. It's not like the off hours overnight players are split evenly between the alliances. No, they're all on the same alliance and are PvDooring their way to victory with no resistance because everyone is asleep. Maybe next campaign they switch alliances but it's the same problem all over again.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

OBJnoob

I don't think anything can be done about nightcapping without being unfair. The suggestions proffered here so far strike me as unfair. And I can tell that they're offered with good intentions but still... Why should someone who wakes up when you go to bed not count as much for their campaign?

I suggest attacking the problem from a different angle. The problem isn't night-capping at all. The problem is population imbalance.

DaisyRay

Katheriah wrote: »

Learn Japanese, infiltrate in the group, create a drama so big it forces the zerg to split in 3 camps of equal size of which one will feel forced to move to AD and the other to DC. <- ROFL

Katheriah wrote: »

I know the other way around we have the low pop and underdog bonus, but the other way around it also shouldn't really pay to zerg the map down with 3 bars against 1 bar.

I agree with this portion, but sometimes in the morning AD and DC are one bar and will now and then work together to take back EP things. In theory it sounds good, but I think it could quickly become unfair if two factions are working against one and then that faction despite having so many people are split between the two and then still gaining less points just because they have more people.

adirondack wrote: »

Easiest solution is for everyone to swap factions to EP and keep the Red Pain Train going all day long.

<- Lol noo

adirondack wrote: »

Seriously however, it’s up to the individual players to choose when they play and with which faction. A year ago it was DC with an over abundant player base. When the game first came out in 2014 it was AD. So I don’t have a good solution for you. It is unfortunate the current state but in doubt ZOS cares much about campaign scores.

I agree, it seems there is very little that can be done that isn't going to be unfair to one side. Though I do like the idea of removing the cap or lowering it. See how that works out for us.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Make Potential Points to be depended from Cyrodiil population. How would that work:
1. Re-scale population bar from 3 bars+ Locked to 10 bars + Locked.
2. When you capture an enemy objective, the game would look at global Cyrodiil population and compare attackers vs defenders population. The bigger the difference - the less potential points bonus attackers would get. The game would "remember" that, till the objective is lost. If it gets re-taken, then the game again looks at population difference and applies a proper modifier. This would not affect your own faction's "home" objectives (Keeps, Resources, scrolls etc).

This goes back to what I said earlier, the change would probably help at the moment but it could quickly be used like people do low pop. I've seen factions willingly sign off or suggest people sign off just to get low pop. One time that I played on Xbox, EP was about to win when DC won the camp due to low pop alone. I think I am mostly looking for a way that can't be taken advantage of outside of this context.

reazea wrote: »

I didn't see you posting about this when DC was doing the same thing for over a year, and it's only been this way with EP leading for 1.5 camps so far. With that said, I do agree with most of your points. (even if you are an AD player )

Lol I was on xbox at that time, I only just got back to pc this year. DC was leading the camp for a while, but that was due to overpopulation (which is also a problem that I hope zos will one day fix), so it's not exactly the same as this one. Many of their pop has split up and came to AD and EP, which is what made them a bit more balanced out with the rest od us. Also, you are already my friend in my head! Different faction or not.

reazea wrote: »

I think the core problem is so many years of performance issues in Cyro even though PvP is by far the best experience available in ESO, the population caps are just too low, so during prime time there is always too long of a wait time for new players to discover PvP now days. And lets face it, player turnover rate is off the charts in ESO after U35 and all those crazy restrictions that were implemented to test PvP performance a couple years ago with nothing to show for it. It makes it seem as though ZOS either can't fix the issues in PvP, or are simply unwilling to make the financial investments to make the needed fixes. i.e.- more server resources for Cyrodiil. If ZOS would just go back to giving PvP at least a tiny bit of attention to balance, performance and raising the pop caps these population imbalance issues would work themselves out I think, as they used to during the glory days of PvP when pop caps were more than 4x what they are today.

I agree with that too, I try to get in early during primetime because if I have to wait too long I just log off lol. It hasn't been that bad this camp though, but still needs some work. I hope they put more time into actually considering our concerns and not giving us things we didn't ask for, but I don't think pvp is high on their list. That was the main reason of making this forum post, just to have it here in case they do decide to try and implement the things we want or need for pvp.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I don't think anything can be done about nightcapping without being unfair. The suggestions proffered here so far strike me as unfair. And I can tell that they're offered with good intentions but still... Why should someone who wakes up when you go to bed not count as much for their campaign? I suggest attacking the problem from a different angle. The problem isn't night-capping at all. The problem is population imbalance.

I've been reading everything suggested and I have to agree. All of these ideas are amazing and they would tackle this one, problem, but I think it would easily be used for ill. I also agree that it's not their fault that their prime time is at an unfavorable hour for the rest of us. Thus, this ideas was suggested to me by someone who has never played the game and I thought I'd share it.

She suggests that zos creates a new server for Asia. Then allow -anyone- to transfer their characters over for free if they want to move to the AS server. I told her zos would never allow people to transfer their characters and if they did it wouldn't be free, but I still like the idea.

However, even if that was done I still feel like we need a solution for overpopulated factions that isn't unfair or able to be misused. Though maybe the solution to that is lowering the cap. That would probably make it feel less overpopulated. Our prime time has been mostly balanced this camp between all three factions, but then there are times that AD feels like the least populated. It could just be the cap and I'm sure those on the other faction have had a similar feeling.

Final thoughts, it's not that big of a problem for me. I just wanted to discuss it and see other opinions on the topic as well as having it here for zos to see. I don't play cyro just to win a camp, I play because it's a fun war game and AD has the craziest zone chat ever lol. So if nothing comes of it, it's fine.

OBJnoob

It's been a problem for a long time. Also not a problem for me personally, but you see complaints pop up on the regular.

But again I don't think night-capping is the problem. It's indicative of a healthy population that we have bars worth of players logging in to play while bars worth of different players are logging out to sleep. What isn't healthy is if every single one of those waking up players plays for the same alliance.

If you couldn't join a campaign for an alliance that already has 1 bar advantage over the other alliances (whether that be 3 to 2 or 1 to 0,) I think this would help both night and day.

And I'm not necessarily suggesting this is a good idea. I admit I haven't thought too hard about it. There may be downsides I haven't considered. I do think it's a better solution than telling everybody from a certain time zone that their captures are only worth half.

Creating more time-specific zones/instances/servers is also an elegant solution, but it depends on where you play. PC maybe has enough Cyrodiil population to survive a split... But does console? On Xbox, where I play, Grayhost could perhaps do this but Blackreach maybe couldn't and Ravenwatch... Well, Ravenwatch barely exists anyway. If you want to divide Ravenwatch into East and West you're gonna need a good understanding of fractions.

Twohothardware

When ESO launched the three Alliances were split up so that you could only group with other players on your Alliance for all PvE activities. That changed with One Tamriel.

End the Alliance war and make a new version of Cyrodiil PvP that’s like the rest of the game. When you join a campaign you’re enlisted on the side that needs numbers. No more need for faction lock. Much more balanced sides.

GooGa592

Twohothardware wrote: »

When ESO launched the three Alliances were split up so that you could only group with other players on your Alliance for all PvE activities. That changed with One Tamriel.

End the Alliance war and make a new version of Cyrodiil PvP that’s like the rest of the game. When you join a campaign you’re enlisted on the side that needs numbers. No more need for faction lock. Much more balanced sides.

I'm faction loyal, so this won't work for me. This is also a non starter because it would put my daily guild raid members in different factions and we wouldn't be playing together, it would force us to play against each other, which isn't going to happen.

geonsocal

i don't think you base the AP calculations on time of day, but rather population count...

less population - more AP...your scrolls are gone - strengthen the alliance npc guards...make those home keeps a lot tougher if you are fighting at a 3 to 1, or worse ratio...

if one alliance has 10 times the amount of players a in the zone as the other 2 factions combined...make them work for it...

1). strengthen the guards
2). strengthen the walls and doors
3). dramatically increase the low population bonus timing...it needs to be much more dynamic

M0ntie

How about recruit more players who live in other timezones or work shifts? "nightcap" for the US = regular play time for people living in other countries in the world. ZoS won't give us an Oceanic server so its bad enough having to put up with 200-300 ping AT BEST without being disadvantaged for living outside the US, or working shift hours.

Holycannoli

OBJnoob wrote: »

I don't think anything can be done about nightcapping without being unfair. The suggestions proffered here so far strike me as unfair. And I can tell that they're offered with good intentions but still... Why should someone who wakes up when you go to bed not count as much for their campaign?

Because they're not fighting for the objectives. They aren't being stalled by a stalwart defense, they don't need forward camps, they have no opposition.

I suggest attacking the problem from a different angle. The problem isn't night-capping at all. The problem is population imbalance.

Well yes it is, and it's something I even pointed out myself. If the overnight players were distributed between the three alliances it wouldn't be a problem. But they're not. They're all piled in the same alliance. They routinely go around capturing the scrolls and objectives to "earn" a score that the prime time players can never catch up to.

There is no fair way to fix this but I'm not totally against the idea of turning off capturing during the off hours, like the other MMORPG I used to play does. The NA server and the EU server have different PvP schedules and it's exactly to prevent capturing and points accumulation during the server's slow night time. The devs have even changed it so the prime time capture-enabled window can change depending on the population of the server, so if in time more European players are on a server than NA the window will change to accommodate them as the new majority population. They do not want to make it 24/7 because it's unfair and goes against the idea of having different servers for different regions of the world in the first place.

I'm also not opposed to having limits based on whether an alliance has a population advantage based on bars. It's pretty exploitable though: If you have more than one account you can log in with a different alliance, then log out and back in with your chosen account.

There is no perfect solution that is fair to everyone. Keeping it as it is now isn't fair and changing it so you can't participate fully if you're halfway across the world or work odd hours isn't fair.

My preferred solution is to limit points earned during a population imbalance which is in essence the same thing as overnight PvDoor. Maybe points earned during each hourly tick are halved when you have more bars than the other factions. It's not an elegant solution but hey what is? That can be exploitable too, having second accounts just log on to other alliances and hang around idle to prevent the imbalance , but everything else is even less fair. This way the overnight players are still contributing but they can't just force an insurmountable points lead with no opposition.

And with a system like that if each alliance controls a similar number of objectives and the points earned next tick will be similar, but one alliance has three bars while the others have one or two bars triggering the halved points, what is that alliance even doing in Cyrodiil lol?

Holycannoli

7 AM this morning eastern time, PC NA Grey Host.



There is no way for AD or DC to catch up in points when EP is constantly capturing the map night after night with no resistance.

Now if the points earned night after night are halved because of that population imbalance it would still be a balanced campaign points-wise. Their 7k-8k points lead would be almost halved and rightfully so. During prime time the campaign is pretty balanced. There are a lot of hard fought battles and a lot of back and forth. Shouldn't that be what determines the victor? Not which alliance happens to have the overnight players that month?

GooGa592

Holycannoli wrote: »

7 AM this morning eastern time, PC NA Grey Host.



There is no way for AD or DC to catch up in points when EP is constantly capturing the map night after night with no resistance.

Now if the points earned night after night are halved because of that population imbalance it would still be a balanced campaign points-wise. Their 7k-8k points lead would be almost halved and rightfully so. During prime time the campaign is pretty balanced. There are a lot of hard fought battles and a lot of back and forth. Shouldn't that be what determines the victor? Not which alliance happens to have the overnight players that month?

Not true. AD is continually moving up in the rankings over and over based upon the broken low population bonus. DC was doing this exact thing for over a year and I don't recall anyone complaining over that time.

Also, please turn off your HarvestMap add-on while in cyrodiil to reduce server load and lag. Even when posting this pic it makes it hard to see what is going on.

OBJnoob

The populations are balanced during prime-time because there's a cap on it. Who knows what it'd really be, to be honest.

Necrotech_Master

its hard to define "nightcapping" because your "night" is someone elses "primetime"

using the example of japanese players

japan is 13 hours ahead of EST

if its midnight EST, its 1pm in japan

so if you figure "night" hours for est are midnight-6am, that is 1pm-7pm for japan, which is effectively their prime time

on the topic of score? i could care less honestly

for me, the bigger problem is faction imbalance and poor handling of "low pop" bonus, the low pop bonus frankly does not work, if you are at 1 bar pop and enemy factions are 2 or 3 bars, you should be getting low pop

Holycannoli

You base nightcapping on the time zone the server is in. EU nightcapping is NA prime time. NA nightcapping is EU morning. When there's only one server for the entire globe then there is no nightcapping, and usually a more even distribution of population at all times of the day too since everyone is stuck on same server.

Basically, picture a NA guild playing on a EU server so they can nightcap. Oceania players have no choice because ZOS doesn't believe they deserve a server but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's nightcapping and tipping the scales unfairly.

GooGa592 wrote: »

Not true. AD is continually moving up in the rankings over and over based upon the broken low population bonus. DC was doing this exact thing for over a year and I don't recall anyone complaining over that time.

AD will never catch up to EP. It's not possible unless they can control the entirety of the map for hours at a time during prime time. The overnight EP crew makes sure of that. I don't know what the score differential is right now but I can tell you it's probably around 7k.

Last I played Cyrodiil regularly was last winter and DC was dominating the score for the same reason. This nightcapping goes too far in determining who wins.

And I'm not sure how AD has the low pop bonus when it's DC that has the lowest pop. Last night for a while it was AD and EP locked and DC two bars. But I'm not on all the time, just at prime time so I don't know what's going on during the day.

GooGa592 wrote: »

Also, please turn off your HarvestMap add-on while in cyrodiil to reduce server load and lag. Even when posting this pic it makes it hard to see what is going on.

Is there any proof that HarvestMap causes poor Cyrodiil server performance? I have zero client performance issues with my new 4090 build. Before this I couldn't even handle Cyrodiil on low settings when ball groups were around.

reazea

OBJnoob wrote: »

The populations are balanced during prime-time because there's a cap on it. Who knows what it'd really be, to be honest.

If the pop cap/faction was doubled it would still only be about 150/faction now. ZOS has steadily reduced the pop cap since 2019.

Perhaps if people could actually participate in PvP they'd realize they like it. How it is now, during prime time US time, the pop caps are so low it gives the impression that PvP is more popular than it is, and closes the door to those who want to try and get into Cyrodiil because it only takes about 75 people to reach pop lock, thus limiting the number of players who would like to get into the main campaign (grey host). But hey, this means ZOS doesn't has to invest in more server capacity to support cyrodiil anymore.

reazea

Holycannoli wrote: »

You base nightcapping on the time zone the server is in. EU nightcapping is NA prime time. NA nightcapping is EU morning. When there's only one server for the entire globe then there is no nightcapping, and usually a more even distribution of population at all times of the day too since everyone is stuck on same server.

Basically, picture a NA guild playing on a EU server so they can nightcap. Oceania players have no choice because ZOS doesn't believe they deserve a server but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's nightcapping and tipping the scales unfairly.

GooGa592 wrote: »

Not true. AD is continually moving up in the rankings over and over based upon the broken low population bonus. DC was doing this exact thing for over a year and I don't recall anyone complaining over that time.

AD will never catch up to EP. It's not possible unless they can control the entirety of the map for hours at a time during prime time. The overnight EP crew makes sure of that. I don't know what the score differential is right now but I can tell you it's probably around 7k.

Last I played Cyrodiil regularly was last winter and DC was dominating the score for the same reason. This nightcapping goes too far in determining who wins.

And I'm not sure how AD has the low pop bonus when it's DC that has the lowest pop. Last night for a while it was AD and EP locked and DC two bars. But I'm not on all the time, just at prime time so I don't know what's going on during the day.

GooGa592 wrote: »

Also, please turn off your HarvestMap add-on while in cyrodiil to reduce server load and lag. Even when posting this pic it makes it hard to see what is going on.

Is there any proof that HarvestMap causes poor Cyrodiil server performance? I have zero client performance issues with my new 4090 build. Before this I couldn't even handle Cyrodiil on low settings when ball groups were around.

But AD has moved ahead of DC based upon low population bonus alone, not from players playing.

peacenote

A nightcap to me is kahlua and cream. I don't see how that ruins anything for anyone.

Holycannoli

reazea wrote: »

But AD has moved ahead of DC based upon low population bonus alone, not from players playing.

I'm taking your word for it because I haven't seen them have a low pop bonus. I get on around 7 PM eastern and pretty much all three factions are locked with no low pop bonuses.

DaisyRay

reazea wrote: »

But AD has moved ahead of DC based upon low population bonus alone, not from players playing.

That's a crazy thing to say tbh. I've seen AD putting in work and I log in at random hours whenever I'm free. The photo below is from 7am in the morning. AD has been doing a decent job this camp, the reason DC is not doing that well is because most of their pop went to AD and EP this camp and the last camp. Every faction gets low pop and yeah, it is pretty messed up and should be adjusted. AD isn't in second because of it though, it rarely lasts long enough for eval.

DaisyRay

Also, I feel a bit bad for EP pvpers who are left with the aftermath of EP having the whole map. It pretty much makes them a target for both DC and EP for a while and there is no avoiding the double team since both DC and AD will be trying to get their keeps and scrolls back.

GooGa592

DaisyRay wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

But AD has moved ahead of DC based upon low population bonus alone, not from players playing.

That's a crazy thing to say tbh. I've seen AD putting in work and I log in at random hours whenever I'm free. The photo below is from 7am in the morning. AD has been doing a decent job this camp, the reason DC is not doing that well is because most of their pop went to AD and EP this camp and the last camp. Every faction gets low pop and yeah, it is pretty messed up and should be adjusted. AD isn't in second because of it though, it rarely lasts long enough for eval.

AD has been moving to second from last on low pop bonus for over a year now. It's why DC in last and AD increasing their point gap.

DaisyRay

GooGa592 wrote: »

AD has been moving to second from last on low pop bonus for over a year now. It's why DC in last and AD increasing their point gap.

Cap. AD has amazing players and dedicated guilds that help push the map even when EP is trying to take the whole map or DC and EP are grouping up to gate them. To say AD has only been moving up due to lowpop is wild. I was just online a few moments ago and we have no low pop and they are still taking the map. I'm not saying we never have low pop, but don't use that to excuse DC losing to AD.

Oblivion_Protocol

DaisyRay wrote: »

Cap. AD has amazing players and dedicated guilds that help push the map even when EP is trying to take the whole map or DC and EP are grouping up to gate them. To say AD has only been moving up due to lowpop is wild. I was just online a few moments ago and we have no low pop and they are still taking the map. I'm not saying we never have low pop, but don't use that to excuse DC losing to AD.

I’ve definitely seen AD fighting hard to push the map against both DC and EP. But I’ve also seen them collapse, lose multiple keeps, and get pushed down to like four keeps; yet they maintain their position thanks to low pop bonus.

As to the main point of this thread, there’s really no way to resolve “night capping” because it’s not night for everyone all at once. What’s 2:00 in the morning for someone on the West Coast could be 8:00 for someone on the East Coast. Any solution I could think of would be subject to manipulation and exploit, which would lead to even more problems.

DaisyRay

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

I’ve definitely seen AD fighting hard to push the map against both DC and EP. But I’ve also seen them collapse, lose multiple keeps, and get pushed down to like four keeps; yet they maintain their position thanks to low pop bonus.

To get to where we are in points and stay we would need consecutive low pops, which is not the case. I agree, we do get low pop sometimes but so does DC because it usually comes in the morning when the map is all red. However, it is not reliable because it often leaves right before the eval. There are also times when DC gets it and AD does not and sometimes the other way. Low pop overall needs to be revamped, but that will likely never happen. I just think it's funny people are downplaying all the work AD has been putting in by saying they are only beating DC because of low pop. I like all the factions personally, and I think they are all doing great. DC just doesn't have the overwhelming numbers that they used to have unless a ball group gets on.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

As to the main point of this thread, there’s really no way to resolve “night capping” because it’s not night for everyone all at once. What’s 2:00 in the morning for someone on the West Coast could be 8:00 for someone on the East Coast. Any solution I could think of would be subject to manipulation and exploit, which would lead to even more problems.

I agree, I can't see any way to fix what we call nightcapping and they call primetime. I did like the idea of an Asian server, but as someone mentioned not everyone would move over and it might not be enough people to sustain pvp. It's not a real problem though, I was just curious on what other people thought.

GooGa592

DaisyRay wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

I’ve definitely seen AD fighting hard to push the map against both DC and EP. But I’ve also seen them collapse, lose multiple keeps, and get pushed down to like four keeps; yet they maintain their position thanks to low pop bonus.

To get to where we are in points and stay we would need consecutive low pops, which is not the case. I agree, we do get low pop sometimes but so does DC because it usually comes in the morning when the map is all red. However, it is not reliable because it often leaves right before the eval. There are also times when DC gets it and AD does not and sometimes the other way. Low pop overall needs to be revamped, but that will likely never happen. I just think it's funny people are downplaying all the work AD has been putting in by saying they are only beating DC because of low pop. I like all the factions personally, and I think they are all doing great. DC just doesn't have the overwhelming numbers that they used to have unless a ball group gets on.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

As to the main point of this thread, there’s really no way to resolve “night capping” because it’s not night for everyone all at once. What’s 2:00 in the morning for someone on the West Coast could be 8:00 for someone on the East Coast. Any solution I could think of would be subject to manipulation and exploit, which would lead to even more problems.

I agree, I can't see any way to fix what we call nightcapping and they call primetime. I did like the idea of an Asian server, but as someone mentioned not everyone would move over and it might not be enough people to sustain pvp. It's not a real problem though, I was just curious on what other people thought.

Today is the first day in months that AD did not get low pop bonus during the Japan hours of 22:00-24:00. Probably because one of the Japanese guilds did not log on today.