Update All "While Slotted" Abilities to Function on Either Bar

Erickson9610

As it seems that Update 40 is continuing this trend of making more skills which grant passive effects function on either bar, why not update every skill like this? Here is a brief list of all of the skills which have "While Slotted" passive effects (skills with strikethrough have already been given this "either bar" treatment as of now, skills in bold are Ultimate abilities, and skills in italics are Passive abilities):

• Ardent Flame
  • Inferno and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Molten Whip — Gain up to 3 stacks of 100 Weapon and Spell Damage and increase the damage of the next Molten Whip by 20% for each stack when activating a different Ardent Flame ability
• Daedric Summoning
  • Bound Armor — Max Magicka increased by 8% and Minor Protection
  • Bound Armaments — Max Stamina increased by 8%
  • Bound Aegis — Max Magicka increased by 8%, Minor Protection, and Minor Resolve
  • Daedric Protection — Increase Health and Stamina Recovery by 20% while a Daedric Summoning ability is slotted
• Dark Magic
  • Crystal Fragments — Casting a Health, Magicka, or Stamina ability has a 33% Chance to cause your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, deal 66% more damage, and cost 50% less Magicka.
• Storm Calling
  • Expert Mage — Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted
• Assassination
  • Soul Harvest — Gain 10 Ultimate whenever you kill an enemy
  • Grim Focus and Merciless Resolve — Gain up to 5 stacks of 60 Weapon and Spell Damage with Light and Heavy Attacks
  • Relentless Focus — Gain up to 5 stacks of 80 Weapon and Spell Damage with Light and Heavy Attacks
  • Pressure Points — Increase Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted
  • Hemorrhage — While an Assassination ability is slotted: Increase Critical Damage by 10%. Dealing Critical Damage grants you and your group Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical rating by 1314
• Shadow
  • Concealed Weapon — Minor Expedition, and increases the damage of Concealed Weapon by 10% when leaving Stealth or Invisibility
  • Shadow Cloak and Shadowy Disguise — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Dark Cloak — Minor Protection
  • Dark Vigor — Increase Max Health by 3% for each Shadow ability slotted
• Siphoning
  • Siphoning Strikes — Dealing damage heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every second
  • Leeching Strikes — Dealing damage heals you for 1800 Health, up to once every second, and reduces the cost of Leeching Strikes by 10%, stacking up to 10 times
  • Siphoning Attacks — Dealing damage heals you for 1250 Health and restores 200 Magicka and Stamina, up to once every second
  • Magicka Flood — Increase Max Magicka by 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted
  • Soul Siphoner — Increase Healing Done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted
• Aedric Spear
  • Piercing Spear — While an Aedric Spear ability is slotted: Increase Critical Damage by 10% and increase damage done to blocking targets by 10%
• Restoring Light
  • Restoring Aura and its morphs — Minor Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect
• Animal Companions
  • Deceptive Predator — Minor Evasion
  • Bird of Prey — Minor Berserk
  • Flourish — Increase Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 12% while an Animal Companions skill is slotted
  • Advanced Species — Increase Critical Damage by 4% for each Animal Companions skill slotted
• Green Balance
  • Emerald Moss — Increase healing done with Green Balance abilities by 2% for each Green Balance ability slotted
• Winter's Embrace
  • Frozen Armor — Increases Physical and Spell Resistance by 990 for each Winter's Embrace ability slotted
• Grave Lord
  • Venom Skull — Any Necromancer ability counts towards the third cast
  • Shocking Siphon and its morphs — Increase damage done by 3%
  • Death Knell — Increase Critical Strike Chance against enemies under 25% Health by 10% for each Grave Lord ability slotted
• Bone Tyrant
  • Bitter Harvest and its morphs — Reduce damage taken by 3%
  • Death Gleaning — While a Bone Tyrant ability is slotted: Restore 666 Magicka and Stamina whenever an enemy in combat with you within 28 meters dies
  • Health Avarice — Increase Healing Received by 2% for each Bone Tyrant ability slotted
• Living Death
  • Expunge and its morphs — Reduce ability costs by 3%
  • Restoring Tether and its morphs — Increase healing done by 3%
  • Near-Death Experience — While a Living Death ability is slotted, the Critical Strike Chance of your healing abilities is increased by up to 20% in proportion to the severity of the target's wounds
• Herald of the Tome
  • Tome-Bearer's Inspiration and its morphs — Major Brutality and Sorcery
  • Psychic Lesion — While a Herald of the Tome ability is slotted: Increase damage done with Status Effects by 15% and Status Effect Chance by 55%
  • Splintered Secrets — Increase Physical and Spell Penetration by 991 for each Herald of the Tome ability slotted
• Soldier of Apocrypha
  • Runic Jolt and its morphs — Damage taken is reduced by 2% per active Crux
  • Wellspring of the Abyss — Increase Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery by 129 for each Soldier of Apocrypha ability slotted
• Curative Runeforms
  • Intricate Runeforms — While a Curative Runeforms ability is slotted: Reduce the cost of damage shields by 10% and increase strength of damage shields by 10%
• One Hand and Shield
  • Defensive Stance — While slotted, increase damage blocked by 10% and reduce the cost of blocking by 10% while a shield is equipped
  • Power Slam — While slotted, blocking any attack reduces the cost of Power Slam by 50%
• Soul Magic
  • Soul Shatter — While a Soul Magic ability is slotted: When your Health drops below 20%, your soul explodes, dealing 1600 Magic Damage to enemies within 8 meters of you. This effect can occur every 2 minutes and scales off your Max Health.
• Werewolf
  • Werewolf Transformation and its morphs — +15% Stamina Recovery
  • Hircine's Bounty and its morphs — Major Brutality and Sorcery
  • Roar and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
• Fighters Guild
  • Expert Hunter and Evil Hunter — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Camouflaged Hunter — Major Savagery and Prophecy, and grants Minor Berserk when dealing Critical Damage from an enemy's flank
  • Slayer — Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% for each Fighters Guild ability slotted
  • Banish the Wicked — While a Fighters Guild ability is slotted: Generate 3 Ultimate whenever you kill an enemy
• Mages Guild
  • Magelight — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Inner Light — Major Savagery and Prophecy, and also increases Max Magicka by 5%
  • Radiant Magelight — Major Savagery and Prophecy, and also prevents you and nearby allies from being stunned from stealth attacks
  • Magicka Controller — Increase Max Magicka and Magicka Recovery by 2% for every Mages Guild ability slotted
• Psijic Order
  • Temporal Guard — Minor Protection
  • Concentrated Barrier — Gain a damage shield that absorbs 5000 damage while you have a Psijic Order ability slotted and are Bracing. The shield returns to full strength after 10 seconds of not Bracing.
• Support
  • Revealing Flare and its morphs — Major Protection
  • Magicka Aid — Increase Magicka Recovery by 10% for each Support ability slotted
• Item Sets
  • Armor Master — While an Armor ability is slotted, increase your Maximum Health by 5%.
  • Nobility in Decay — Reduces the cooldown of Death's Favor by 2 seconds for each Bone Tyrant ability slotted.

What do you all think of the direction that this game is heading in regards to "while slotted on either bar" buffs? What builds would you come up with if every skill like this was given that treatment? Are there any other skills which should be considered, and which classes need the "while slotted on either bar" treatment the most?

Panderbander

I think this would improve the game's playability significantly and would support it.

That said, the werewolf passive buffs normally only apply while in werewolf form. Are you suggesting that they apply to both bars while slotted on your normal bars or that they should apply to all bars while slotted on your werewolf bar but not in form? If the latter, I would assume these buffs should require the werewolf ultimate be slotted to benefit from them, especially considering that werewolf isn't allowed to benefit from both bar passives while in form.

Erickson9610

Panderbander wrote: »

I think this would improve the game's playability significantly and would support it.

That said, the werewolf passive buffs normally only apply while in werewolf form. Are you suggesting that they apply to both bars while slotted on your normal bars or that they should apply to all bars while slotted on your werewolf bar but not in form? If the latter, I would assume these buffs should require the werewolf ultimate be slotted to benefit from them, especially considering that werewolf isn't allowed to benefit from both bar passives while in form.

I suggest that the passive benefits of the Werewolf skills benefit both bars in your human form. As it is, Hircine's Bounty is the only source of passive Major Brutality and Sorcery that isn't tied to Class abilities. I remember a time where Templar builds slotted Hircine's Bounty for the passive buff before Jabs was given Major Brutality and Sorcery, clearing up a skill slot.

Technically, you shouldn't benefit from Werewolf skills unless you intend to use them, but this is the best solution we have until we get a different source of Major Brutality and Sorcery that isn't tied to weapons or class skills. Maybe Expert Hunter or Magelight should be changed from Major Savagery/Prophecy to Major Brutality/Sorcery?

Panderbander

I don't like the idea of werewolf being used as a passive buff bot like vampire is, especially with how bad it's performing. I would definitely suggest keeping those separate as they are specifically intended for single bar.

This of course only applies as long as I cannot benefit from both bar slotted passives while a werewolf, as it is currently.

Vaqual

The amount of time it took you to write this would probably be the same amount it takes to implement these changes.
Reavling flare, deaden pain and temporal guard on the back bar sounds busted tho.

Erickson9610

As for which class I think needs the "either bar" treatment the most, I think it's Necromancer. Necromancer has 5 different skills which grant passive effects while slotted, which means that unless they're all on the same bar, there will not be a great uptime of any of them.

Also, Sorcerer and Warden pets could be made to work on either bar like Necromancer and Nightblade pets do, even if they are designed to last longer at the downside of bar space.

Finally, I think that the "either bar" treatment for Werewolf Transformation really does make sense. If you don't slot the Ultimate, then you have no way to engage with your curse at all. If you grant yourself the potential ability to be a werewolf by slotting the skill, then you should get the passive Stamina recovery on either bar just as you would if you had it on your active bar — why should bar swapping away make you any less of a werewolf?

AlterBlika

Same could be done for passives I think

Nebs

I feel like the Necromancer's Venom Skull is an absolute shoe-in. It even matches the DK's proposed Molten Whip enhancement. Crystal Shards also fits that similar niche. I think the Warden's Deceptive Predator/Bird of Prey skill are also a great candidate.

I'd really like to see the Major crit sources from Mages and Fighter's guild get the treatment as well. I think this fit pretty closely with the NB's Cloak/Disguise skills without providing as powerful options on the skill itself so as not to step on the class's toes.

I'm torn on the passives from Ults receiving the one-bar treatment. I think it'd be neat to get the 15% passive stamina recovery from werewolf, or the minor protection from Temporal Guard, but maybe that's too much with the buffs that come from the passives of other skill lines, such as the 3% damage from Fighter's Guild abilities that Dawnbreaker could supply.

I'm intrigued by the Sword & Shield skill. I hadn't considered that one before. It would require double-barring Sword and Shield anyway, but that might get goofy in PVP so I can't speak for that one. The percentage-based increases from the Necromancer and Arcanist skills might be too much, which might be why the Arcanist didn't get Runic Jolt's buff on both bars when it released.

Thanks for compiling these!

i11ionward

Erickson9610 wrote: »

As it seems that Update 40 is continuing this trend of making more skills which grant passive effects function on either bar, why not update every skill like this? Here is a brief list of all of the skills which have "While Slotted" passive effects (skills with strikethrough have already been given this "either bar" treatment as of now, while skills in bold are Ultimate abilities):

• Ardent Flame
  • Inferno and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Molten Whip — Gain up to 3 stacks of 100 Weapon and Spell Damage and increase the damage of the next Molten Whip by 20% for each stack when activating a different Ardent Flame ability
• Daedric Summoning
  • Bound Armor — Max Magicka increased by 8% and Minor Protection
  • Bound Armaments — Max Stamina increased by 8%
  • Bound Aegis — Max Magicka increased by 8%, Minor Protection, and Minor Resolve
• Dark Magic
  • Crystal Fragments — Casting a Health, Magicka, or Stamina ability has a 33% Chance to cause your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, deal 66% more damage, and cost 50% less Magicka.
• Assassination
  • Incapacitating Strike — Restore 100 Magicka and Stamina when dealing damage with Light or Heavy Attack
  • Soul Harvest — Gain 10 Ultimate whenever you kill an enemy
  • Grim Focus and Merciless Resolve — Gain up to 5 stacks of 60 Weapon and Spell Damage with Light and Heavy Attacks
  • Relentless Focus — Gain up to 5 stacks of 80 Weapon and Spell Damage with Light and Heavy Attacks
• Shadow
  • Concealed Weapon — Minor Expedition
  • Shadow Cloak and Shadowy Disguise — Major Savagery and Prophecy
  • Dark Cloak — Minor Protection
• Restoring Light
  • Restoring Aura and its morphs — Minor Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect
• Animal Companions
  • Deceptive Predator — Minor Evasion
  • Bird of Prey — Minor Berserk
• Bone Tyrant
  • Bitter Harvest and its morphs — Reduce damage taken by 3%
• Grave Lord
  • Venom Skull — Any Necromancer ability counts towards the third cast
  • Shocking Siphon and its morphs — Increase damage done by 3%
• Living Death
  • Expunge and its morphs — Reduce ability costs by 3%
  • Restoring Tether and its morphs — Increase healing done by 3%
• Herald of the Tome
  • Tome-Bearer's Inspiration and its morphs — Major Brutality and Sorcery
• Soldier of Apocrypha
  • Runic Jolt and its morphs — Damage taken is reduced by 2% per active Crux
• One Hand and Shield
  • Defensive Stance — While slotted, increase damage blocked by 10% and reduce the cost of blocking by 10% while a shield is equipped
• Werewolf
  • Werewolf Transformation and its morphs — +15% Stamina Recovery
  • Hircine's Bounty and its morphs — Major Brutality and Sorcery
  • Roar and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
• Fighters Guild
  • Expert Hunter and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
• Mages Guild
  • Magelight and its morphs — Major Savagery and Prophecy
• Psijic Order
  • Temporal Guard — Minor Protection
• Support
  • Revealing Flare and its morphs — Major Protection

What do you all think of the direction that this game is heading in regards to "while slotted on either bar" buffs? What builds would you come up with if every skill like this was given that treatment? Are there any other skills which should be considered, and which classes need the "while slotted on either bar" treatment the most?

At this point, we see that the "either bar" mechanic is no longer anyone's class identity, so Devs must can use your list to implement mechanics for all similar skills at once, rather than picking favorites every update, adding mechanics to one or two skills.

Twohothardware

Wardens Lotus Flower that gives major prophecy and sorcery needs to give it on both bars passively instead of needing to activate the skill.

boi_anachronism_

I gotta say im seriously in favor of doing this for wardens on bird of prey. For how short the actual skill duration is it should be a 2x bar passive at the min. I rarely play mine but it would honestly give the class a little more umph considering so much of is tied to healing/defense.

System_Data

Twohothardware wrote: »

Wardens Lotus Flower that gives major prophecy and sorcery needs to give it on both bars passively instead of needing to activate the skill.

Please make that happen ZOS. As it is, it's an extra cast that deals no damage. Hard to justify using it over Expert Hunter or Magelight and if wardens really wanted a heal, there are quite frankly more impactful choices to choose from.

Have one of the morphs deal some kind of damage like Dragonknight's Inferno would add some oomph to the class as a damage dealer.

In the same vein, make Templar's Sunfire and its morphs give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy on both bars passively as well.

Marto

Twohothardware wrote: »

Wardens Lotus Flower that gives major prophecy and sorcery needs to give it on both bars passively instead of needing to activate the skill.

Aww but it has one of the cutest active animations in the game. I'm a big fan of it.
Maybe they could just make the prophecy/sorcery apply to both bars, and leave the active alone?

gariondavey

Yes please

Vaqual

System_Data wrote: »

Please make that happen ZOS. As it is, it's an extra cast that deals no damage.

I hope you are aware that is a major balancing aspect. Enabling passives to be active on both bars is one thing, turning actives into passives is another story. Technically there is something to it, since strong passives being available only on one bar was balancing out strength. But still, this is a slippery slope.

If we end up at a point were everyone has access to all buffs at all times, then we just erased the meaning of those buffs and elevated basal powerlevels. That would be just plain powercreep, which in turn invalidates PvE content.

I am not categorically against anything right now, I just think the devs have to be mindful.

System_Data

Vaqual wrote: »

I hope you are aware that is a major balancing aspect. Enabling passives to be active on both bars is one thing, turning actives into passives is another story. Technically there is something to it, since strong passives being available only on one bar was balancing out strength. But still, this is a slippery slope.

If we end up at a point were everyone has access to all buffs at all times, then we just erased the meaning of those buffs and elevated basal powerlevels. That would be just plain powercreep, which in turn invalidates PvE content.

I am not categorically against anything right now, I just think the devs have to be mindful.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

Ardent Flame
Inferno: This ability and its morphs’ passive slotted bonuses now persist through bar swap.

I understand your concern, but it looks like ZOS has decided otherwise. Dragonknight's Inferno is slotted for practically all damage dealers. Whereas Templar's Sun Fire even with the added Major Savagery is barely used over Expert Hunter/Magelight. Not to mention that Inferno is practically double the total damage of Sunfire. So them allowing Wardens and Templar skills to have their Buffs carry over would just be a welcome quality of life change.

At the moment, everyone has access to Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, either via potions or other skill lines, i don't see how it would erase the meaning of those buffs if not just give Templars and Wardens a more appealing avenue to acquire those buffs. However, those skills still won't see much use if they stay as weak as they are now. People are going to use potions or Expert Hunter/Magelight for stronger skills to slot instead.

Erickson9610

Hopefully ZOS considers granting the "either bar" treatment to other skills on the next PTS patch. Some of these skills could really use that buff.

Zastrix

I'm totally fine with this but I do like the idea of some passives only being locked on the current bar. But that's mostly for weapon passives. It'd be weird that I would get a sword and board passive while I'm holding dual daggers. Skill passives totally, but weapon passives? Not so much.

autocookies

deleted

Erickson9610

Zastrix wrote: »

I'm totally fine with this but I do like the idea of some passives only being locked on the current bar. But that's mostly for weapon passives. It'd be weird that I would get a sword and board passive while I'm holding dual daggers. Skill passives totally, but weapon passives? Not so much.

The "while slotted" passive effect for Defensive Stance requires that a shield is currently equipped. On the Live server, you won't get the 10% extra damage blocked and 10% blocking cost reduction if you slot that skill on a bar without a shield equipped.

Theoretically, if the passive effect worked on either bar, you could slot the skill on a non-shield bar (and be unable to cast it), but you'd get the passive effect on your other bar if it has a shield equipped. It's like how you can slot Roar or Hircine's Bounty to get their passive effects without actually being able to cast those abilities in your human form — you are sacrificing bar space for some sort of passive effect.

However, I imagine most of the utility from this skill being given the "either bar" treatment would come from tanks who want to run shields on both bars, and don't want to slot the skill on both bars in order to get that blocking buff. This change would clear up a skill slot for them, so they won't slot a redundant skill.

BigMakatak

I'm also greatly in favor of this; as far as I'm concerned, the more skills that get this treatment, the better.

chessalavakia_ESO

I think the majority of those shouldn't happen and for those that do happen the attached buff should get nerfed so that slotting it isn't seen as being mandatory for too many people.

Buffing a skill so that it works on just one bar may free up bar space for those that were using it on two bars but, for those that weren't using it the pressure to use it just increased significantly.

I'm of the view that buffs for most players should be in the position of using them if you want to do so and otherwise not doing so without totally crippling your character.

i11ionward

I remembered my first days in TESO and the level 15 I received. At that time, I really thought that skills (with a passive effect) placed on one of the bars would always be active. I was disappointed. But now there is hope that the “on either bar” mechanic can actually be added to the game for many skills. I really hope for these changes as soon as possible.

Panderbander

What about class passives that apply based on the number of skills slotted on a bar such as the health nightblade gets for each slotted shadow ability or the critical damage given to wardens for each slotted animal companions ability?

Personally I'd like to see these looked at, revised to provide benefits based on having their benefit active regardless of bar slotted, and updated to do just that.

MashmalloMan

Panderbander wrote: »

What about class passives that apply based on the number of skills slotted on a bar such as the health nightblade gets for each slotted shadow ability or the critical damage given to wardens for each slotted animal companions ability?

Personally I'd like to see these looked at, revised to provide benefits based on having their benefit active regardless of bar slotted, and updated to do just that.

That's honestly more justifiable than most of the skills in this list and I strongly support that. Oddly, some class passives just don't deal with this issue at all while others are heavily penalized.

Eg. Necro gets 200 mag/stam Regen for an active pet which is basically 350+ with multipliers and is essentially up 24/7. Sorc has to slot a Daedric Summoning skill for 20% stam regen which would require a base value of 1750 (before multipliers) to match which is completely unrealistic. Most builds have around 1000-1500 after multipliers in the current context of the game.

Again, Necro gets 8% healing done for having a negative effect, as we know with CP and Mara's Balm, this is basically all the time, while NB gets 3% per Siphoning skill slotted.

Sorc gets 2% Weapon/Spell damage per Sorc skill slotted, while a universal skill line like Fighters Guild gives 3%.. this was only justifiable back in the day before hybridization when Fighters only effected Weapon damage while Sorc effected both.

If ZOS needs to rebalance them, then do it to work. I'd rather have better build diversity that plays with both bars, it's simply more intuitive as well.

MashmalloMan

i11ionward wrote: »

I remembered my first days in TESO and the level 15 I received. At that time, I really thought that skills (with a passive effect) placed on one of the bars would always be active. I was disappointed. But now there is hope that the “on either bar” mechanic can actually be added to the game for many skills. I really hope for these changes as soon as possible.

It's been so long for me that I truly forget my new player experience, but this is an excellent point.

Great game design is easy to play, hard to master, that allows it to hit any type of audience.

ESO already has a ton of complexity due to skills, racials, sets, stats, resources, mundus, enchants, traits, weapons, food, potions, weaving, mechanics, dlcs, economy, skill points, CP, core combat skills, and finally rotations that this issue feels overtly complex for no reason in an already deep game.

Especially since this is tied to ESO's core combat system with the whole 2 bar weapon swapping mechanic which can be jarring for new players. The mechanic was originally introduced to make ESO play well on consoles for controllers button layout, but it's one of my favourite features of any MMO as I've had time to fall in love with it. Why make it more complex then it needs to be.

I think the biggest argument to make these changes is where do we draw the line? Why do some skills do it and others don't.

If everyone's more powerful at the same rate, then this avoids some potential balancing issues.

Erickson9610

AlterBlika wrote: »

Same could be done for passives I think

Panderbander wrote: »

What about class passives that apply based on the number of skills slotted on a bar such as the health nightblade gets for each slotted shadow ability or the critical damage given to wardens for each slotted animal companions ability?

Personally I'd like to see these looked at, revised to provide benefits based on having their benefit active regardless of bar slotted, and updated to do just that.

I have now updated the original post with all of the Passive Abilities which have "While X Ability is Slotted" effects. I think this is a great idea.

Erickson9610

That being said, I've noticed three general categories with how passives that require active skills function. This includes:

1. An effect which scales up based on the number of active abilities slotted (e.g. Slayer, increases WD/SD by 3% per slotted Fighters Guild skill)
2. An effect which does not scale up, but simply requires an active ability slotted (e.g. Banish the Wicked, generates 3 Ultimate when an enemy is slain if you have a Fighters Guild skill slotted)
3. A boost to the effectiveness of the active abilities in that skill line (e.g. Skilled Tracker, increases damage of Fighters Guild abilities by 10%)

I believe that if Passive Abilities were to be given the "either bar" treatment, one approach to balancing this would be to make passives that are in category 1 function more like the passives in category 2. A sledgehammer approach would probably half the values of passives in category 1, or make those passives more like the ones in category 3.

Erickson9610

Here's an isolated list of just the Passive Abilities which have "while x ability is slotted" and "for each x ability slotted" effects:

• Daedric Summoning
  • Daedric Protection — Increase Health and Stamina Recovery by 20% while a Daedric Summoning ability is slotted
• Storm Calling
  • Expert Mage — Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted
• Assassination
  • Pressure Points — Increase Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted
  • Hemorrhage — While an Assassination ability is slotted: Increase Critical Damage by 10%. Dealing Critical Damage grants you and your group Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical rating by 1314
• Shadow
  • Dark Vigor — Increase Max Health by 3% for each Shadow ability slotted
• Siphoning
  • Magicka Flood — Increase Max Magicka by 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted
  • Soul Siphoner — Increase Healing Done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted
• Aedric Spear
  • Piercing Spear — While an Aedric Spear ability is slotted: Increase Critical Damage by 10% and increase damage done to blocking targets by 10%
• Animal Companions
  • Flourish — Increase Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 12% while an Animal Companions skill is slotted
  • Advanced Species — Increase Critical Damage by 4% for each Animal Companions skill slotted
• Green Balance
  • Emerald Moss — Increase healing done with Green Balance abilities by 2% for each Green Balance ability slotted
• Winter's Embrace
  • Frozen Armor — Increase Physical and Spell Resistance by 990 for each Winter's Embrace ability slotted
• Grave Lord
  • Death Knell — Increase Critical Strike Chance against enemies under 25% Health by 8% for each Grave Lord ability slotted
• Bone Tyrant
  • Death Gleaning — While a Bone Tyrant ability is slotted: Restore 666 Magicka and Stamina whenever an enemy in combat with you within 28 meters dies
  • Health Avarice — Increase Healing Received by 2% for each Bone Tyrant ability slotted
• Living Death
  • Near-Death Experience — While a Living Death ability is slotted, the Critical Strike Chance of your healing abilities is increased by up to 20% in proportion to the severity of the target's wounds
• Herald of the Tome
  • Psychic Lesion — While a Herald of the Tome ability is slotted: Increase damage done with Status Effects by 15% and Status Effect Chance by 75%
  • Splintered Secrets — Increase Physical and Spell Penetration by 991 for each Herald of the Tome ability slotted
• Soldier of Apocrypha
  • Wellspring of the Abyss — Increase Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery by 129 for each Soldier of Apocrypha ability slotted
• Curative Runeforms
  • Intricate Runeforms — While a Curative Runeforms ability is slotted: Reduce the cost of damage shields by 10% and increase the strength of damage shields by 10%
• Soul Magic
  • Soul Shatter — While a Soul Magic ability is slotted: When your Health drops below 20%, your soul explodes, dealing 1600 Magic Damage to enemies within 8 meters of you. This effect can occur once every 2 minutes and scales off your Max Health.
• Fighters Guild
  • Slayer — Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% for each Fighters Guild ability slotted
  • Banish the Wicked — While a Fighters Guild ability is slotted: Generate 3 Ultimate whenever you kill an enemy
• Mages Guild
  • Magicka Controller — Increase Max Magicka and Magicka Recovery by 2% for every Mages Guild ability slotted
• Psijic Order
  • Concentrated Barrier — Gain a damage shield that absorbs 5000 damage while you have a Psijic Order ability slotted and are Bracing. The shield returns to full strength after 10 seconds of not Bracing.
• Support
  • Magicka Aid — Increase Magicka Recovery by 10% for each Support ability slotted

How would you all feel about Passive Abilities like these checking both of your ability bars for slotted Active Abilities, rather than just your active ability bar?

MashmalloMan

Erickson9610 wrote: »

That being said, I've noticed three general categories with how passives that require active skills function. This includes:

1. An effect which scales up based on the number of active abilities slotted (e.g. Slayer, increases WD/SD by 3% per slotted Fighters Guild skill)
2. An effect which is does not scale up, but simply requires an active ability slotted (e.g. Banish the Wicked, generates 3 Ultimate when an enemy is slain if you have a Fighters Guild skill slotted)
3. A boost to the effectiveness of the active abilities in that skill line (e.g. Skilled Tracker, increases damage of Fighters Guild abilities by 10%)

I believe that if Passive Abilities were to be given the "either bar" treatment, one approach to balancing this would be to make passives that are in category 1 function more like the passives in category 2.

Doesn't feel necessary, I quite like how they scale based on how far you lean into that skill line.

The per slotted skills generally have lower values that only reach a decent amount around 3 skills on your bar which in my experience, is often how many you usually end up with for an average well rounded build in pvp.

This brings a bit of diversity imo, rather than just slapping a flat value. If required you could balance it down a little, like maybe the NB 3% healing goes to 2% instead. Etc etc.

Erickson9610

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

That being said, I've noticed three general categories with how passives that require active skills function. This includes:

1. An effect which scales up based on the number of active abilities slotted (e.g. Slayer, increases WD/SD by 3% per slotted Fighters Guild skill)
2. An effect which is does not scale up, but simply requires an active ability slotted (e.g. Banish the Wicked, generates 3 Ultimate when an enemy is slain if you have a Fighters Guild skill slotted)
3. A boost to the effectiveness of the active abilities in that skill line (e.g. Skilled Tracker, increases damage of Fighters Guild abilities by 10%)

I believe that if Passive Abilities were to be given the "either bar" treatment, one approach to balancing this would be to make passives that are in category 1 function more like the passives in category 2.

Doesn't feel necessary, I quite like how they scale based on how far you lean into that skill line.

The per slotted skills generally have lower values that only reach a decent amount around 3 skills on your bar which in my experience, is often how many you usually end up with for an average well rounded build in pvp.

This brings a bit of diversity imo, rather than just slapping a flat value. If required you could balance it down a little, like maybe the NB 3% healing goes to 2% instead. Etc etc.

That is a fair point. If every passive required only one active ability slotted to reach the maximum value, then people wouldn't try to build into any particular skill line. Passives should encourage players to build into certain aspects of their character, rather than being a "one and done" thing.

Additionally, there are some passive abilities which have completely unnecessary "while x ability is slotted" conditions. For instance, Hemorrhage requires you to both slot an Assassination ability and land a critical strike in order to proc the class minor buff. Compare this to Maturation, which does not have the requirement to slot any Warden ability but just requires you to heal yourself or an ally in order to proc the class minor buff.

If passive abilities checked either bar, then the proc conditions for these passives would be more relaxed, while still encouraging players to build into those skill lines with both of their ability bars. The same can be said about active abilities with "while slotted" conditions. Weapon swapping shouldn't change your character's passive talents — the only thing that should change is their weapon.