PVP how can you achieve this? AMAZING!

Soarora

Could it be that they had less than 1 health and the UI rounded it down while the game considered them still alive? Looks like their healthbar (the color, not the numbers) didn't really go to nothing just almost did.

I don't even know how you'd get a fraction of health but... just throwing ideas around.

DUTCH_REAPER

Soarora wrote: »

Could it be that they had less than 1 health and the UI rounded it down while the game considered them still alive? Looks like their healthbar (the color, not the numbers) didn't really go to nothing just almost did.

I don't even know how you'd get a fraction of health but... just throwing ideas around.

No, if you go frame by frame both the UI and the games target frame clearly show zero points of health. As well as showing “DEAD” in the frame. You can see from both videos there is no health in either target frame. If a player goes to zero. They die. That’s what zero represents. At first I suspected that but after going frame by frame it clearly shows no health. What is TRULY a mystery…..is if you watch the first video at the end when he does finally die…he magically attains a shield. That’s what that yellowish color on his bar is. A shield. But he is dead. The mystery I know.

DUTCH_REAPER

I’ve tried messaging and mailing this dude. I can’t reach him. Maybe somebody else can. Then he can come here and enlighten us. He clearly has something working here for him. I’m so curious what and how he does it.

Kungfu

Marcus684 wrote: »

I saw the same thing from a tower “enthusiast” .

hahaha I like that. I'ma steal it

RoseTheSnowElf

Admittedly I have no idea what build/rotation is being used. But I'm pretty certain this situation is entirely specific to Arcanists.

This didn't start happening like this til a couple of weeks after release (I'm PS) and all the Arc's running around Cyro weren't baby toons anymore.

It very well might be a specific gear set up, rotation, CP and vamp Undeath. But there is something unique in the Arc tool kit or just that Arc shield that is paring so well that I'd argue it's over performing and is very unhealthy for overall Cyro game play.

IxSTALKERxI

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Could it be that they had less than 1 health and the UI rounded it down while the game considered them still alive? Looks like their healthbar (the color, not the numbers) didn't really go to nothing just almost did.

I don't even know how you'd get a fraction of health but... just throwing ideas around.

No, if you go frame by frame both the UI and the games target frame clearly show zero points of health. As well as showing “DEAD” in the frame. You can see from both videos there is no health in either target frame. If a player goes to zero. They die. That’s what zero represents. At first I suspected that but after going frame by frame it clearly shows no health. What is TRULY a mystery…..is if you watch the first video at the end when he does finally die…he magically attains a shield. That’s what that yellowish color on his bar is. A shield. But he is dead. The mystery I know.

The yellowish color on bar at the end looks like it's left over from activating the sanctum ultimate, which isn't actually a shield as you still take 40% damage through it. But the absorb phase of the ult had already completed, so that is a UI bug with that addon most likely.

The only strange thing is the part where they don't die, they are getting the psijic shield from blocking on separate cool down, probably breaking free is giving the psijic, whilst casting a heal, but doesn't look like it adds up though.

CameraBeardThePirate

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

DUTCH_REAPER

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

Hey man do you know the guy? Can you get the build? I saw him again last night but he was on a completely different build last night I think. He died much easier than I have ever seen him die before. Tried asking for his previous build but couldn’t contact. I don’t know why he changed his build when his other build was a beast!? I got the clip from last night. I can put his new and old build side by side so we can see the difference but I already know the arc tank build. It’s not my play style. I just want to know his previous build that slaughters and has re donkulous survivability. I don’t know why he changed??? 🤷‍♂️ I have seen that player slay. Ridiculously skilled.

Marcus684

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

Hey man do you know the guy? Can you get the build? I saw him again last night but he was on a completely different build last night. He died much easier than I have ever seen him die before. Tried asking for his previous build but couldn’t contact. I don’t know why he changed his build when his other build was a beast!? I got the clip from last night. I can put his new and old build side by side so we can see the difference but I already know the arc tank build. It’s not my play style. I just want to know his previous build that slaughters and has re donkulous survivability. I don’t know why he changed??? 🤷‍♂️ I have seen that player slay. Ridiculously skilled.

Reminds me of the "highly skilled" players that either disappear or become surprisingly mortal when a wave of bans goes out.

DUTCH_REAPER

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

The yellowish color on bar at the end looks like it's left over from activating the sanctum ultimate, which isn't actually a shield as you still take 40% damage through it. But the absorb phase of the ult had already completed, so that is a UI bug with that addon most likely.

The only strange thing is the part where they don't die, they are getting the psijic shield from blocking on separate cool down, probably breaking free is giving the psijic, whilst casting a heal, but doesn't look like it adds up though.

Oh yeah I see that now thanks for point that out.

Reverb

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

SaffronCitrusflower

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

Admittedly I have no idea what build/rotation is being used. But I'm pretty certain this situation is entirely specific to Arcanists.

This didn't start happening like this til a couple of weeks after release (I'm PS) and all the Arc's running around Cyro weren't baby toons anymore.

It very well might be a specific gear set up, rotation, CP and vamp Undeath. But there is something unique in the Arc tool kit or just that Arc shield that is paring so well that I'd argue it's over performing and is very unhealthy for overall Cyro game play.

I see it happening a lot lately, and it's mostly with Arcanists. I think it's all their shields combined with lag and CP.

Bashev

Is it possible that the issue is between arcanist shields and oblivion damage? Where the health goes to 0 but the arcanist shields are treated as health and then death is not registered but it is shown 0 health and maybe if the health is 0 the shield are not shown at all?

@DUTCH_REAPER do you use oblivion damage?

DUTCH_REAPER

Well if it is not a set/cp/ability/passive benefit then it is the game registering “DEAD” when a player isn’t dead and ZOS needs to look into this. I thought it was like a set build and highly skilled player because the dude absolutely can play like a boss on his build. Remember back in the day when the IC set, think it was called phoenix would insta save a player from death? Gawd I wish he would come here or we can meet up and test. I mean if this isn’t a set benefit and it’s actually a problem with in game then we can test and submit it to ZOS with proof. I just wanted to know how I could go to zero health but not die.

I do not use Oblivion damage.

CameraBeardThePirate

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

DUTCH_REAPER

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

That the simplest explanation is the best one? Yeah I agree with that. But far too often we as gamers chalk things up to lag. I mean if this isn’t a set build thing and it’s class specific then shouldn’t ZOS fix it so players don’t run into this issue/benefit depending on what side of the fight you are on?

Dojohoda

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7916044

If anyone is interested in seeing another example of arcanist zero-health gameplay, the link above is a July thread in the bug forum. The example is from the arcanist point of view.

CameraBeardThePirate

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

That the simplest explanation is the best one? Yeah I agree with that. But far too often we as gamers chalk things up to lag. I mean if this isn’t a set build thing and it’s class specific then shouldn’t ZOS fix it so players don’t run into this issue/benefit depending on what side of the fight you are on?

It absolutely happens with some builds more than others, and can be caused by certain damaging abilities more than others.

As I already mentioned before, Undeath is a huge factor that causes desync more often.

Shields cause desync more often.

Snipe causes desync more often.

All of these examples have been pointed out plenty of times over the years. But it's still just lag - the server tells the client the hp is lower than it is.

DUTCH_REAPER

I don’t understand how a passive is causing this “desync”. Has ZOS acknowledged this anywhere? As stated before, if the definition of Dey sync is correct with how I understand the term. Health desync is when you have say 20k health but only show your health bar filled to 15k. No matter how much more healing you put in yourself you will not heal past 15k. That is not what I am seeing though from the clips. Is this a new type of desync?

DUTCH_REAPER

Dojohoda wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7916044

If anyone is interested in seeing another example of arcanist zero-health gameplay, the link above is a July thread in the bug forum. The example is from the arcanist point of view.

Holy biscuits n gravy man! Dude is at zero health and survives to tell the tale! Okay ZOS what gives?

Also wanted to add I know people are saying this and that causes it but has anyone tested it to see it replicate? Basically to put an exact finger on this issue because that would help with finding a solution. If not I will be happy to test I just don’t want to waste time if somebody else has already done it.

This goes back to my original question.
HOW do you achieve this? Specifically. Can a player purposely cause this whenever they wish? Is it random?

RoseTheSnowElf

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

DUTCH_REAPER

If a player can purposely cause this on demand bc a player knows how to…. that is no good. If it is random and accidental how is it fixed? Does it clear itself when you die? Do you reload ui or log off completely to clear it? I have been playing arc the majority of the time and if it can be caused on purpose I’ll find out. Best I can do is submit to ZOS how it’s caused. Otherwise what? We as a pvp community have to put up with this happening until ZOS actively steps in to correct.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

HP desync can work both ways unfortunately, it can make you think you have hp and then die because you actually dont but it can also equally make you think you have less hp than you do. In rare cases enemies can also see this in some cases. From the clip I would assume it's a symptom of this.

From previous testing (around 2-3+y ago) generally problems like this were caused by HP modifiers like you get with haemorrhaging / impulse and also healing ulti's like Repentance. Where you gain/lose hp very quickly.

however I wouldn't rule anything out with ESO

CameraBeardThePirate

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

It's both. Certain things cause it more frequently (like shields). But it still is desync.

It also does happen on other classes. Arcanist just happens to be the only one that always runs a shield.

ProudMary

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

It's both. Certain things cause it more frequently (like shields). But it still is desync.

It also does happen on other classes. Arcanist just happens to be the only one that always runs a shield.

Exactly. It's a combo of lag and shields, so we see it on arcanist mostly, but also on DK and Sorcs too, just not as much.

DUTCH_REAPER

ProudMary wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

It's both. Certain things cause it more frequently (like shields). But it still is desync.

It also does happen on other classes. Arcanist just happens to be the only one that always runs a shield.

Exactly. It's a combo of lag and shields, so we see it on arcanist mostly, but also on DK and Sorcs too, just not as much.

People keep saying lag. Lag on the person who is attacking the “bugged” person who doesn’t die or lag on the person who is bugged? I have had no lag when these occurrences happen and yet they happen. If the person who is bugged has lag then how are they able to heal and kill people who are not lagging? I don’t think the lag argument really holds water here unfortunately. When looking for an accidental bug or exploitation of said bug there is a myriad of testing to find it. If anyone has info please post specifics to aid in this endeavor.

DUTCH_REAPER

You know what would really speed this up? If you know the guy, have him pM me a screen shot of him in Cyrodil with Superstar. Then I’ll fully 100% have a great starting area to test to try and find out what is causing it. I won’t share it. If I have to buy a racial change for this test so be it. Are we going to be part of the solution or part of the problem? I and others who play arc have never had this happen so something is causing it.

CameraBeardThePirate

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

It's both. Certain things cause it more frequently (like shields). But it still is desync.

It also does happen on other classes. Arcanist just happens to be the only one that always runs a shield.

Exactly. It's a combo of lag and shields, so we see it on arcanist mostly, but also on DK and Sorcs too, just not as much.

People keep saying lag. Lag on the person who is attacking the “bugged” person who doesn’t die or lag on the person who is bugged? I have had no lag when these occurrences happen and yet they happen. If the person who is bugged has lag then how are they able to heal and kill people who are not lagging? I don’t think the lag argument really holds water here unfortunately. When looking for an accidental bug or exploitation of said bug there is a myriad of testing to find it. If anyone has info please post specifics to aid in this endeavor.

That's not really how lag works. Client-side lag =/= server-side lag =/= client-server desync.

Desync is when the server can't keep up with sending and receiving messages to/from the client. You may not be lagging, the enemy may not be lagging, but both of you are receiving incorrect data from the server because it can't keep up with calculations. It isn't a global thing either - you could absolutely still heal, deal damage, and use abilities just fine; certain variables like position and UI values like health might still be incorrect. Have you ever not been able to break free even though you had plenty of stam? It's a similar issue there - the server thinks you have less stam than you do. Dawnbreakered someone right in front of you but nothing happened? Positional desync.

DUTCH_REAPER

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RoseTheSnowElf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

My favorite part of this thread is the people acting like Dutch and Nigel (you’ll always be Nigel to me @IxSTALKERxI) just don’t understand pvp.

I'm not acting like either don't understand pvp, but it's asinine that they're so adamant that it's some "crazy build" or some exploit.

It's just lag. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

I'd agree the answer was lag if this was happening on other toons besides Arcanists, and was happening this frequently before the Necrom release and BEFORE we (again I'm on PS) got our server hardware upgrade. In 3 years I've never experienced this THIS frequently and only on 1 class of toons until now.

With those variables added into the equation, Occam's Razor would point in the direction something is up with the Arc class.

(Edit: corrected typo)

It's both. Certain things cause it more frequently (like shields). But it still is desync.

It also does happen on other classes. Arcanist just happens to be the only one that always runs a shield.

Exactly. It's a combo of lag and shields, so we see it on arcanist mostly, but also on DK and Sorcs too, just not as much.

People keep saying lag. Lag on the person who is attacking the “bugged” person who doesn’t die or lag on the person who is bugged? I have had no lag when these occurrences happen and yet they happen. If the person who is bugged has lag then how are they able to heal and kill people who are not lagging? I don’t think the lag argument really holds water here unfortunately. When looking for an accidental bug or exploitation of said bug there is a myriad of testing to find it. If anyone has info please post specifics to aid in this endeavor.

That's not really how lag works. Client-side lag =/= server-side lag =/= client-server desync.

Desync is when the server can't keep up with sending and receiving messages to/from the client. You may not be lagging, the enemy may not be lagging, but both of you are receiving incorrect data from the server because it can't keep up with calculations.

That poor ZOS hamster

React

You're just seeing health desync. Health desync comes in several forms and is caused by a myriad of different things, but it often appears as if your opponent's health is either 1) hitting 0 without them dying or 2) never dropping below a certain threshold, despite then having taken damage that should have dropped them below it.