PVP how can you achieve this? AMAZING!

DUTCH_REAPER

At time 8, 15 and 17 both the game UI target frame and the addon show Zero health. What amazing set is this? Where does it drop? Thank you!

https://youtu.be/YQcJGnnQ1-o

CameraBeardThePirate

It's called Undeath

DUTCH_REAPER

I can't seem to find that set hmm? Is there another name for the set? Is Undeath a slang term? I tried whispering him but I couldn't because he was probably offline I am assuming. If anyone knows him please, I would love his build, it's spectacular! Here is the set at 20 seconds performing like a boss again!

https://youtu.be/TNPo5Ox0DjY

Dojohoda

Undeath is a vampire passive.

Kungfu

Wait... I mean, I been gone a couple of years almost now. Did they change undeath?
Sorry, not logged in atm. But does it actually pop you back up from zero?

DUTCH_REAPER

That's so weird, my guy is a vampire and when I hit zero health I still die. Is there some other way I need to use the passive? Like, should I pair it with something specific to do this I mean?

Dojohoda

I don't know what's going on in the video. It looks like a bug.

DUTCH_REAPER

Which video? Happens in both. On different days and time. Ping is in lower left corner. No lag

IxSTALKERxI

Interesting. There are very rare instances where if you heal during the same server frame as you going to 0 hp it can show up as you being dead. It doesn't happen often though, so the fact that this is happening multiple times on same player is pretty sus.

An example is at 5m 26s:
https://youtu.be/Xor7cb3OWJs?t=326

IxSTALKERxI

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

At time 8, 15 and 17 both the game UI target frame and the addon show Zero health. What amazing set is this? Where does it drop? Thank you!

https://youtu.be/YQcJGnnQ1-o

it doesn't look like runeguard of freedom either... like that does look really sus, looks like breakfree / vigor or something? looks like person should definitely be dead the more i look at it tbh.

WoppaBoem

If he was an arcanist there health bar is bugged, really messes up my execute I am fighting arcanist with zero health all the time very annoying should be fixed.

maxjapank

Looks sus.

CameraBeardThePirate

It's literally just health desync + undeath. This happens quite a lot in Cyrodiil if you're on the lookout for it. With a class that has shields like arcanist or sorc, it'll happen even more often.

Kungfu

For everyone else here, forgive an old man, Gen-X'er here? If it's "looking sus" you're meaning to say it's NOT a combination of mechanics, skills, sets, etc. that you're aware of?
In other words, "I don't wanna say on the forums that someone's cheating but it sure looks like cheating"?

Clarifying out of honest interest here... I'm seeing similar results in cyro a lot, myself. I assume most of the time it's just that I have not been able to figure out a good build in this meta yet. But if this is NOT something we can / are supposed to be able to achieve via honest means... I'll stop looking.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's literally just health desync + undeath. This happens quite a lot in Cyrodiil if you're on the lookout for it. With a class that has shields like arcanist or sorc, it'll happen even more often.

First, please understand: I'm not picking at you here. Hoping to better understand because I'm seeing this kind of behavior a lot. And I do NOT like to cry "cheater" - I work really... REALLY hard at understanding the game.

Not arguing with you on the fact that undeath is pretty strong when stacked with all the other mitigation currently available in the game. Though I disagree that changing undeath is the answer... it's worked properly IMO for many years prior to this more recent "tanky" meta. It's all the other mitigation available that needs to be toned back down closer to previous patch values... like pre-2021.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your definition of "health desync" - what I've called "health desync" has been a different experience over the years.

I'd like to be sure my definition of "health desync" matches up with others.
My experience is that desync becomes visible when a player's health cannot actually get back up to full. The max shown on bars ends up being offset by the amount desync'ed and the full calculated health is not actually available to the target player.
Assuming you and I agree on what health desync looks & feels like, I kinda think we gotta rule that one out: because this health bar pops to 100% full at 38(ish) seconds.

Similarly, when my health has been desync'ed in the past - I still die at 0 hp.

To be more clear, if I have 100k health (for easy math), and I'm desync'ed by 20k, my health bar maxes out at 80% full. Or 80k health. So I can cast ALL the heals I want but never really get back up to full because... desync. But there's never been an upside for me: when I hit zero, I die.

Undeath in-game states "Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing health." So, let's say you have EVERYTHING going... there are amazing ways this person's damage received could momentarily be mitigated by as much as 90-95%. You know that situation, right? Where you're NAILING that ball group with everything you've got and you're only seeing damage numbers of like 25 - 50?

Only this guy's still registering 3k+ received damage at 15 & 17 seconds in the OP video. Here again, my experience is that damage numbers shown to the attacker actually show the final calculated value AFTER undeath and all mitigation(s). For example, at 14 seconds, he has 371 health and he takes two hits: 283 and 2829.
371 - 283 = 88 health --> he's still "alive"
88 - 2829 = -2741 --> that's beyond dead. And it happens not once but twice over two GCDs.

I've played as and killed a couple of vamps in my day. Been around Cyro for a minute or two. I HAVE seen it help save someone from 1 health. Crazy lucky. Wildly interesting when we went back to look at footage. And I was wrong back then. But in all of those "honest" circumstances, a health regen tick and/or heal was involved.
This guy pops up during his break free at 16 seconds. But he STILL takes another set of 3392 & 343 damages immediately after - taking him back down below zero.

Again y'all - I just want to understand the math. If it's legit, I want to know how to better build for cyro!

DUTCH_REAPER

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's literally just health desync + undeath. This happens quite a lot in Cyrodiil if you're on the lookout for it. With a class that has shields like arcanist or sorc, it'll happen even more often.

No way man. I have been playing this game since beta. I know what a health desync is. As a matter of fact I can link a video of it where it happens to my guy. I can also link videos of this same amazing phenomenon (player’s health go to zero and magically survive) from clips I have of EP tower humpers not just DC players. I’m playing AD atm so I don’t have any videos of AD players who are running this mind bending set. Maybe I should post those clips of the other players as well? I’m dying to know how these players achieve this ya know? Not to mention you say this is a health desync. But the videos are from different days, different times, same player, same thing happens and the ping is perfect, there is no lag. It is not health desync.

CameraBeardThePirate

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's literally just health desync + undeath. This happens quite a lot in Cyrodiil if you're on the lookout for it. With a class that has shields like arcanist or sorc, it'll happen even more often.

No way man. I have been playing this game since beta. I know what a health desync is. As a matter of fact I can link a video of it where it happens to my guy. I can also link videos of this same amazing phenomenon (player’s health go to zero and magically survive) from clips I have of EP tower humpers not just DC players. I’m playing AD atm so I don’t have any videos of AD players who are running this mind bending set. Maybe I should post those clips of the other players as well? I’m dying to know how these players achieve this ya know?

You can choose not to believe me but that's what it is. Server lag telling you the player's health is lower than it is because Undeath is keeping them at a sliver of health.

DUTCH_REAPER

So you’re saying, and I am spit balling here, that the build coupled with Undead passive, ice staff and CP reduction on damage is causing this?? Bc these builds are insane to fight against. I have seen my health go to Zero many times. But ya know. I just die like a normal person. I would be more than happy to test your theory but again I need a build setup to do that. Every time my health goes to zero…I die. So do you have a build/setup of this? Do you know this guy? Can you ask him for me???? You keep saying server lag but there isn’t any. Check ping. Plus if it was lag. How is he casting abilities while on his back? It’s not lag or desync. This guy is an amazing player. He is so incredibly difficult to kill and hits like a truck. I’m just trying to figure out how it is achieved.

IxSTALKERxI

Kungfu wrote: »

In other words, "I don't wanna say on the forums that someone's cheating but it sure looks like cheating"?

^yes this

Kungfu wrote: »

Clarifying out of honest interest here... I'm seeing similar results in cyro a lot, myself. I assume most of the time it's just that I have not been able to figure out a good build in this meta yet. But if this is NOT something we can / are supposed to be able to achieve via honest means... I'll stop looking.

This is first I've seen of it personally. There are good builds out there that are honest. Makes you wonder how many others are out there like this though.

DUTCH_REAPER

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea in these videos how a player goes to zero on health, not zero percent but Zero health points on the frame and it actually says DEAD on the frame sometimes, and can bounce right back from death like shown in these videos?

DUTCH_REAPER

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

In other words, "I don't wanna say on the forums that someone's cheating but it sure looks like cheating"?

^yes this

Kungfu wrote: »

Clarifying out of honest interest here... I'm seeing similar results in cyro a lot, myself. I assume most of the time it's just that I have not been able to figure out a good build in this meta yet. But if this is NOT something we can / are supposed to be able to achieve via honest means... I'll stop looking.

This is first I've seen of it personally. There are good builds out there that are honest. Makes you wonder how many others are out there like this though.

Funny you should say that. I also have clips of other players both DC and EP with this amazing set/build. Zero health points on the frame. Sometimes the frame says DEAD but players pop right back from death. But what is the build I ask?? They are always in offline mode and won’t answer request.

WoppaBoem

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea in these videos how a player goes to zero on health, not zero percent but Zero health points on the frame and it actually says DEAD on the frame sometimes, and can bounce right back from death like shown in these videos?

Het is een bug, niet de build. Dit zijn acr's met het probleem heel vervelend en zullen ze hopelijk fixen in toekomstige patch. Ik heb vaak dat ik execute met bij praktisch geen leven en doe maar 1500 dmg wat betekend dat execute dmg increase nog niet eens actief was dus plus 50% leven. Jij bent ook op een arc jouw tegenstanders hebben dat ook met jou zonder dat jij dat ziet maar hun wel.

DUTCH_REAPER

WoppaBoem wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea in these videos how a player goes to zero on health, not zero percent but Zero health points on the frame and it actually says DEAD on the frame sometimes, and can bounce right back from death like shown in these videos?

Het is een bug, niet de build. Dit zijn acr's met het probleem heel vervelend en zullen ze hopelijk fixen in toekomstige patch. Ik heb vaak dat ik execute met bij praktisch geen leven en doe maar 1500 dmg wat betekend dat execute dmg increase nog niet eens actief was dus plus 50% leven. Jij bent ook op een arc jouw tegenstanders hebben dat ook met jou zonder dat jij dat ziet maar hun wel.

Not a bug. Sorry. I have many clips. It is no bug. This happens EVERY time. Either the damage reduction from CP tree paired with ice staff paired with a vampire passive paired with some UNSPOKEN set in the build is doing this or there is some other secret I have yet to discover. There is no lag people. Ping is great. This player AND others who run this build are ALMOsT unkillable. Almost. But have you ever gone to zero and bounced right back multiple times? If so how exactly did you achieve this feat. HOW is my question. I would be okay with you saying I am in an arc and so is he but other classes like Templar are also seeing this from this build so I can’t in good concious take that reason since my friends see it to on different classes.

DUTCH_REAPER

Simple question. HOW?

DUTCH_REAPER

Oh and a bug can be replicated. How do I replicate this bug for those saying it’s a bug. It is always the same players running this build. Sometimes it’s arcs Doesn’t matter. The same thing happens. It’s not a bug. The dude goes to zero health points multiple times during different fights. I am curious HOW can I achieve this? Because these specific players are almost unkillable and I am just trying to find out HOW.

TechMaybeHic

I've submitted clips that are similar but they become unmarketable by gap closers, yet something like a PBAO can hit them. Probably not quite the same but I attribute it to a lot of position and health desync as I try to think better of people.

DUTCH_REAPER

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've submitted clips that are similar but they become unmarketable by gap closers, yet something like a PBAO can hit them. Probably not quite the same but I attribute it to a lot of position and health desync as I try to think better of people.

Totally understand what you’re saying. Kudos.
I just want to recreate the supposed BUG or get the build and recreate the phenomenon of healing through death.

NyassaV

I've had this happen when I use a heal at the same time I take a lot of damage. My guess is that the game just poops it's pants and throws out a 0 until it can properly update.

And I don't even use the Undeath passive.

DUTCH_REAPER

NyassaV wrote: »

I've had this happen when I use a heal at the same time I take a lot of damage. My guess is that the game just poops it's pants and throws out a 0 until it can properly update.

And I don't even use the Undeath passive.

Can you remember what sets you were wearing or what skill you were using for this heal? Any details lol I’m trying to narrow this down.

RoseTheSnowElf

Been in Cyro daily going on 3 years now.

Myself and everyone I play with have never seen this happen so frequently and so dramatically til Arcanists became so prevalent in Cyro. And it's only ever when the Arc pops their shield. Everyday 1 or more of us are grumbling that ZOS needs to tone down that shield a tad or something. It's actually worse than the Sorc shield. That just prolongs the fight til you can catch them long enough to break the shield down.

This is something entirely different.

Admittedly I haven't played an Arc yet. But I see this happen this way ONLY on Arcs since Necrom's release. (I'm very familiar with desync moments, this ain't it)

Now Undeath and some specific set and/or rotation paired on the Arc shield could be amplifying this, but this is still specific to that Arc shield.

(Edit) It's gotten to the point as soon as I see that green Arc shield pop I know the fight just started over.

DUTCH_REAPER

I play arc and I can’t replicate this. Idk what is going on. Agree it is not a desync. It is not a bug.

Marcus684

I saw the same thing from a tower “enthusiast” a couple of weeks ago. Their health went to zero while they were cc’d and they didn’t die. One of the other people chasing them also noticed and brought it up in zone, where a couple of others mentioned seeing other occurrence of this.

This wouldn’t be the first time someone found a creative way to cheat the reaper (pun intended).