PVP how can you achieve this? AMAZING!

DUTCH_REAPER

I know text can come across as course and rude when not meaning too, so when I say this I am not in anyway shape or form meaning this disrespectfully to anyone. I am not some stellar amazing player. I am a normal dude who loves playing eso and hanging with friends, geeking out doing build testing and running endgame content …like Cyrodil zone chat lol. Which is why I posted the thread trying to discover if a set/ skill was causing this to happen.

My questions are.

1. Why do I have multiple clips of the same people where this happens in every single fight. Not some fights. Every single one.
2. Why has this not happened to me or anyone else I know that plays arc, sorc or dk? We pvp daily.
3. Why are we as a pvp community almost nonchalant letting ZOS not correct this?
4. Everyone was saying it’s undeath it’s undeath before BUT now they are saying it’s desync. Which is it?
5. Everyone is giving possibilities but no one is saying “this caused it, here is the proof.” How is this caused?
6. Can this issue be caused on command or is it accidental? (Please see question number one)
7. And finally when you are attacking a player and their health says Zero in your target frame, do you think that player should be dead?

Kungfu

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

Yeah, code doesn't work that way. But thanks


Here, if you're arguing collision handling, it's clear serverside data takes precedence. Ever fire your ult, watch the animation, and die having not had it fire & rez with full ult still in your bar? Same statistical data set, same math, same precedence. Server sending numbers = client has to sit, wait, and accept all values delivered.

Marcus684

Kungfu wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

Yeah, code doesn't work that way. But thanks


Here, if you're arguing collision handling, it's clear serverside data takes precedence. Ever fire your ult, watch the animation, and die having not had it fire & rez with full ult still in your bar? Same statistical data set, same math, same precedence. Server sending numbers = client has to sit, wait, and accept all values delivered.

Interesting. So it's the game server telling Dutch's client that his opponent is at zero health and "DEAD", while the opponent's client was telling him that he still had health left? Is this the "desync" that everyone keeps blaming, the server sending 2 different health values to the 2 different clients? How is this possible?

React

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I know text can come across as course and rude when not meaning too, so when I say this I am not in anyway shape or form meaning this disrespectfully to anyone. I am not some stellar amazing player. I am a normal dude who loves playing eso and hanging with friends, geeking out doing build testing and running endgame content …like Cyrodil zone chat lol. Which is why I posted the thread trying to discover if a set/ skill was causing this to happen.

My questions are.

1. Why do I have multiple clips of the same people where this happens in every single fight. Not some fights. Every single one.
2. Why has this not happened to me or anyone else I know that plays arc, sorc or dk? We pvp daily.
3. Why are we as a pvp community almost nonchalant letting ZOS not correct this?
4. Everyone was saying it’s undeath it’s undeath before BUT now they are saying it’s desync. Which is it?
5. Everyone is giving possibilities but no one is saying “this caused it, here is the proof.” How is this caused?
6. Can this issue be caused on command or is it accidental? (Please see question number one)
7. And finally when you are attacking a player and their health says Zero in your target frame, do you think that player should be dead?

1. Visual HP desync is typically on your end, and if you don't reset it'll often be present until you do. If the catalyst that caused this particular case is a frequent element in combat with this particular player, you may repetitively see it.

2. It almost certainly has, and you just didn't notice it. It can be very subtle, especially if you don't understand why/when it happens, or what to look for to indicate that it has happened.

3. That horse is beyond beaten to death. We have begged and pleaded with zenimax for years to address these issues. They flat out do not care about PVP. Anyone that argues they do, and that they're working on these things, is lying to themselves and to you.

4. Idk why people said this was undeath, they probably didn't watch the clip or just assumed you're another noob complaining on the forums. Which there are quite a few of, to be fair.

5. There are a myriad of things that cause desync, and I don't think most players understand what they all are. One example I can give you is if you dawnbreaker a nightblade who is invisible with shadowy disguise, who you could not see, you'll pull them from stealth but you won't see a damage number on your dawnbreaker and their health will now be desynced. If you then succeed in killing them, you'll see they die at a threshold visually above 0% HP, because the UI isn't updating for the dawnbreaker damage they cloaked, but did actually receive. This is just one example, there are many. Overload + shock glyphs can desync your HP to a different threshold than it actually appears to be, and if you cast poison injection on a person who has spell wall active and it then hits you, you'll be desync'd by some amount.

6. It's almost always accidental, and it really serves no purpose even if you could do it "on demand". That person likely cannot accurately tell what HP they are at, either.

7. Obviously. But this is ESO. Literally nothing works properly, at all. The developers do not care. You have to come to terms with that if you're going to play PVP.

Source: Probably 15K+ hours of mostly solo PVP over the past 7 ish years.

DUTCH_REAPER

React wrote: »

.



7. Obviously. But this is ESO. Literally nothing works properly, at all. The developers do not care. You have to come to terms with that if you're going to play PVP.

Source: Probably 15K+ hours of mostly solo PVP over the past 7 ish years.

Remember when people were gap closing through keep doors and walls and ZOS buckeled down and fixed the issue? Guess those days are long gone.

Telel

Anyone remember a guild called Guild of Shadows, and the special little snowflake they had in their roster? The one that they insisted wasn't cheating, and who'd post on the forums about how 'great' he was?

Anyone else remember how many of their members claimed their inability to die came from 'skill' plus 'special builds' and how everyone complaining was just 'zergling trash'?

Telel remembers. They even have video.

Telel also remembers (and has video from) when another clique from a self proclaimed 'top guild NA & EU' made use of an exploit. One that let them desync and kill people before the game even registered attacks. You'd just fall over dead, and then see a single attack come out of thin air. The person shooting it would more often than not appear quite a distance away.

They of course claimed they were just 'that good', and that they were using a 'special' light attack combo. When pressed on what build they were using they'd naturally become abusive while claiming it was being kept secret to prevent 'explotiing'.

CameraBeardThePirate

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

React wrote: »

.



7. Obviously. But this is ESO. Literally nothing works properly, at all. The developers do not care. You have to come to terms with that if you're going to play PVP.

Source: Probably 15K+ hours of mostly solo PVP over the past 7 ish years.

Remember when people were gap closing through keep doors and walls and ZOS buckeled down and fixed the issue? Guess those days are long gone.

Well yah, because that was almost an entirely different dev team that implemented that change. Dev teams change, employees come and go. It's quite apparent that the current dev team cares far less about PvP and its issues than any iteration of dev team that came before.

DUTCH_REAPER

Telel wrote: »

Anyone remember a guild called Guild of Shadows, and the special little snowflake they had in their roster? The one that they insisted wasn't cheating, and who'd post on the forums about how 'great' he was?

Anyone else remember how many of their members claimed their inability to die came from 'skill' plus 'special builds' and how everyone complaining was just 'zergling trash'?

Telel remembers. They even have video.

Telel also remembers (and has video from) when another clique from a self proclaimed 'top guild NA & EU' made use of an exploit. One that let them desync and kill people before the game even registered attacks. You'd just fall over dead, and then see a single attack come out of thin air. The person shooting it would more often than not appear quite a distance away.

They of course claimed they were just 'that good', and that they were using a 'special' light attack combo. When pressed on what build they were using they'd naturally become abusive while claiming it was being kept secret to prevent 'explotiing'.

Oh yes I do I do lol. I also remember the under ground dolmen guild in cyro and the “flying” players in the keeps lol. What happened to them? Oh that’s right. They got banned didn’t they? Can’t remember. I also remember how you could equip multiple sets even though you didn’t have them slotted. So many exploits in last almost ten years.

Telel

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Anyone remember a guild called Guild of Shadows, and the special little snowflake they had in their roster? The one that they insisted wasn't cheating, and who'd post on the forums about how 'great' he was?

Anyone else remember how many of their members claimed their inability to die came from 'skill' plus 'special builds' and how everyone complaining was just 'zergling trash'?

Telel remembers. They even have video.

Telel also remembers (and has video from) when another clique from a self proclaimed 'top guild NA & EU' made use of an exploit. One that let them desync and kill people before the game even registered attacks. You'd just fall over dead, and then see a single attack come out of thin air. The person shooting it would more often than not appear quite a distance away.

They of course claimed they were just 'that good', and that they were using a 'special' light attack combo. When pressed on what build they were using they'd naturally become abusive while claiming it was being kept secret to prevent 'explotiing'.

Oh yes I do I do lol. I also remember the under ground dolmen guild in cyro and the “flying” players in the keeps lol. What happened to them? Oh that’s right. They got banned didn’t they? Can’t remember. I also remember how you could equip multiple sets even though you didn’t have them slotted. So many exploits in last almost ten years.

Don't forget the ,multiple mundus stone exploits so many of the 'top' guilds were caught using. Usually with the excuses of 'well if cheaters are doing it then we need to do it too to be competitive'. Or 'if ZOS didn't want us cheating they should fix it faster'. Good times.

Then there was the population exploit from a few years back . The one involving making a group lead on another faction and then doing some weird shenanigans.

DUTCH_REAPER

UPDATE I found a health exploit

After rigorous testing I have discovered parameters set(s) that are doing this. Waiting to hear back from ZOS

Edited for proper wording

DUTCH_REAPER

Wanted to add. There maybe other ways to achieve the zero health and survive but I found one for sure so far.

DUTCH_REAPER

#reporting myself now lol

DUTCH_REAPER

Also wanted to add it would be Easy for a player to do this without realizing it. Just for the record.

DUTCH_REAPER

Also wanted to add has NOTHING to do with shields that I see from testing. J/s

Janni

It's called a desync because the state of the server and your client are literally not in sync anymore. And it can happen with specific individual things while everything else is fine. Usually when someone's health desyncs it means the server is either no longer sending updates to some or all clients or that one or more clients aren't accepting those updates. This is a fairly common problem with lots of aspects of nearly every online game there is, ESO just happens to have some really egregious ones when it comes to position and UI updates.

Though I've seen weird stuff before that I called out as likely exploits that turned out to be true but unless I see it from the same people repeatedly every single time I fight them I just go with eso being a janky nightmare that would make Todd Howard proud.

Janni

Kungfu wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'll say it one more time guys. Server Desync. It's really not that complicated. No crazy conspiracy, no secret build, no cheats or exploits. The server told the client that they were lower health than they actually were, that's it.

Yeah, code doesn't work that way. But thanks


Here, if you're arguing collision handling, it's clear serverside data takes precedence. Ever fire your ult, watch the animation, and die having not had it fire & rez with full ult still in your bar? Same statistical data set, same math, same precedence. Server sending numbers = client has to sit, wait, and accept all values delivered.

It totally can work that way. There hasn't been a professionally made online game that hasn't done it that way since shortly after doom. Client side prediction is the norm when it comes to movement and high frequency actions. Most devs also consider it good practice to perform and windup animations and sound effects while waiting for confirmation from the server. This is why you get that misleading potion sound even when it fails, or your dragonknights wings sprout but she doesn't go anywhere. Or your dawnbreaker starts but then instantly cuts off. For instant cast skills you often hear and see the beginning of the animation only to get the dreaded 'Target is out of range'.

Janni

Whoops hit post too soon. Anyway, to answer the 7th item specifically... no. It'd be nice. It's frustrating when it happens. But I know enough to understand why the UI updates locally to predict the state that the server will likely, but not always confirm at some later point. And certainly we cant suggest that MY client should be the one that determines when someone is def dead.

DUTCH_REAPER

I’m confused? I already responded to this. I found one for sure way to do it. It’s not a desync. It’s an exploit that a player can do intentionally or a player can do without even realizing they are doing it.(give people the benefit of the doubt) Has nothing to do with lag desync or whatever you choose to call it. I reported it to ZOS with video and explanation how to do it.

Marcus684

It's weird but there's always been some people that whenever the possibility of cheating is brought up, they continue to insist that it's "lag" or "desync" or "git gud" or whatever, despite the well-documented history of cheating in this game over the years. Yes, the vast majority of cheating claims are likely NOT cheating and yes, most people that cry "Cheater!" are probably just salty about losing, but that doesn't mean that cheats don't exist, and honest players shouldn't insist that they don't.